Developer Discussions: Alpha 17

[JaxTeller718]

To be honest with you, at this point I have no idea how it should have been taken. That is the way I originally took it. That A17 was "beta", as in content lock for the Alpha. But, subsequent posts made it so I have no clue what he meant.

 

Also, I could've read more into your post than was intended. It just seemed like you were pretty angry. If I did, sorry.

 

I apologize too. It's just my way of speaking. As someone doing something far less important than Pimps I understand patch length and missed deadlines. I ALSO learned from them to never say something that people can twist or misinterpret. It happens a LOT in here. Game could go gold tomorrow and I would be pretty ok with it. So it's not really about that.

 

I guess more the radio silence, so when a Pimp DOES speak we listen. Definitely should have been better chosen phrasing in that post. And after days of seeing people debate it back and forth it was just odd to see "Guys it is not beta" after so long.

 

Nothing can really be taken serious around here though right? Hey we all love the game and want to see it at its best. Maybe we are all wrong. Who knows really. Maybe that is the frustrating part for some?

 

Again sorry if I shot back so directly. Hey for me the longer between an Alpha the more time i get to chill before I have to update my mod so by all means, take as long as they need

[Gnomaana]

Again sorry if I shot back so directly. Hey for me the longer between an Alpha the more time i get to chill before I have to update my mod so by all means, take as long as they need

 

You didn't shoot back at all. The reasonableness of your reply is what made me think I misread the first one.

 

I really don't know how you modders do it. I can program but have done barely any game design and zero modding. From the sidelines it looks like Early Access is both a modder's dream AND their nightmare at the same time. Every alpha seems like it would be, "OMG look at all the new stuff to play with." and "OMFG, look at ALL the new stuff I have to fit my mod into."

 

That isn't even mentioning the work to fix the already "finished" mod stuff. You can load a save from couple alphas ago into A16 to see what kind of mess a new alpha can do to previous work. And that's just a map basically.

[DaVegaNL]

Ow, I think I didn't come up with a clear formulation. I actually meant that i'm looking forward to hearing about the new "gameplay-core" aspects like bandits, NPC, pathing algorithms and so on, not that I was excited about what I heard. Like I said gyrocopters and other vehicles and all the rest that has been shown are cool additions but they don't warrant for enough new challenge / gameplay mechanics to actually make me wanna have another playthrough.

 

Sorry for getting your hopes up, but we're waiting for the same thing.

 

Hehe no problem man. Thanks for the reply, thought I might have missed something..

[DaVegaNL]

The 'it's Beta'-post from Madmole, without any follow-up, is just another example of how this new approach of him with regards to forum communication has failed..

[Ryan666]

Actually I did , twice

[beerfly]

The 'it's Beta'-post from Madmole, without any follow-up, is just another example of how this new approach of him with regards to forum communication has failed..

 

Nothing failed.. Some ppl did need some help to understand what he said. And the waltz goes on ..

[JaxTeller718]

Nothing failed.. Some ppl did need some help to understand what he said. And the waltz goes on ..

 

I didn't need any help. The post was written improperly, and needed clarification and we did not get that clarification for almost a week. There IS no help when someone says "It's Beta" but thanks for putting a spin on it. I agree completely with DaVega I would never make such a statement and then take a leave without further expanding on it, especially with the buzz it created.

 

Roland even spoke as if it was beta in a few posts. Was he wrong as well?

[beerfly]

I didn't need any help. The post was written improperly, and needed clarification and we did not get that clarification for almost a week. There IS no help when someone says "It's Beta" but thanks for putting a spin on it. I agree completely with DaVega I would never make such a statement and then take a leave without further expanding on it, especially with the buzz it created.

 

Roland even spoke as if it was beta in a few posts. Was he wrong as well?

 

Most missunderstanding came from the word "beta"i believe. There is much to be done before beta and it is obvious. Some got stressed that devs will rush the things and mess the game up.

Of course the silence was not a proper thing. Lets call it failed for a week

[Ouch Quit It]

Most missunderstanding came from the word "beta"i believe. There is much to be done before beta and it is obvious. Some got stressed that devs will rush the things and mess the game up.

Of course the silence was not a proper thing. Lets call it failed for a week

 

Never ASSUME .....

 

Clarification could of set the record straight...agreed

Not a fan of the new get the information out on the forums style put in place. Too many gaps and lack of information.

 

MTFGA

[DaVegaNL]

Nothing failed.. Some ppl did need some help to understand what he said. And the waltz goes on ..

 

On it's own, without clarification/explanation, such a post from MadMole serves nothing but causes wild speculation and a lot of miscommunication/misunderstandings. So yeah, trying to get a message across, the main point of posting here, failed.

 

Edit: Yeah, a fail for a week is what you could call it.

[Gazz]

So you're asking for MM to stop posting on the forum or making videos?

That's pretty much the only way to turn him into a cagey and sensitive corporate spokesperson. LOL

 

It's that or the forum users learning to control their feelings - but that implies growing up and we would never ask such a horrible thing of you guys.

[Guppycur]

I think you may be confusing their frustration with immaturity.

 

The frustration comes from once having a dev that actively communicated with the community, sparking discussions and keeping things lively, to a dev team that does not. Sure, Faatal posted some cool Pics and answered some questions outside of a17, and you're still kicking around, but mm's little social experiment isn't working, at least from a forum community relations stand point, which is his prerogative, but you can't reasonably expect it to go over well here.

 

This is the forum community, and between #streamergate, Twitter announcements coming first and now the shut off of communication, the forum members, the guys who feel like they've been with the development from the start, are feeling left out.

 

Right, wrong, or inevitable, it's not immaturity.

[Mikee]

any info about the experimental?

[toores]

So you're asking for MM to stop posting on the forum or making videos?

 

You know that's not what he wants

 

Cough * VIDEO * Cough

 

There has been so much bitter whining on the forums that it's tiring to read all. To be fair though, cryptic messages separated by long pauses ain't helping much.

 

IMO it was far better when MM told what they're working on and what they hope to accomplish, with the risk of changes and omissions later down the road. It would give people something better to do then dreaming up their worst fears about the development. TFPs might even pick up some good ideas from people (not that they would have to). At least it would drive some conversation with content-rich discussion.

There will always be someone who is incapable of understanding that the content shown in videos is WIP and who think that MM's "maybe" is a promise. You just have to except that.

 

When there's no new information, there is only new guys voicing their fears and long time forum members waiting out the drought, joking around to pass the time - it's cool and all, but that's not why i actually come to read the forums.

[Odetta]

I think you may be confusing their frustration with immaturity.

 

The frustration comes from once having a dev that actively communicated with the community, sparking discussions and keeping things lively, to a dev team that does not. Sure, Faatal posted some cool Pics and answered some questions outside of a17, and you're still kicking around, but mm's little social experiment isn't working, at least from a forum community relations stand point, which is his prerogative, but you can't reasonably expect it to go over well here.

 

This is the forum community, and between #streamergate, Twitter announcements coming first and now the shut off of communication, the forum members, the guys who feel like they've been with the development from the start, are feeling left out.

 

Right, wrong, or inevitable, it's not immaturity.

 

Hit the nail on the head here.

 

 

So you're asking for MM to stop posting on the forum or making videos?

That's pretty much the only way to turn him into a cagey and sensitive corporate spokesperson. LOL

 

It's that or the forum users learning to control their feelings - but that implies growing up and we would never ask such a horrible thing of you guys.

 

 

[KronosKronight]

I dont have the time to go back and see what all the fuss was about and I dont want anyone to really post it to me either.

 

I dont like to take sides etc. Every thing that is posted or viewed in videos we all have to take with a pinch of salt, anything can change and nothing is permanent. Even if something is promised it still could all change as things do in real life.

 

So can we get a basic review of how A17 is doing and an approximate % of completion because we are all going nuts and want A17. Then I think from there we have to move on and not look back.

 

Always forwards never backwards.

[Aldranon]

I think you may be confusing their frustration with immaturity.

 

The frustration comes from once having a dev that actively communicated with the community, sparking discussions and keeping things lively, to a dev team that does not. Sure, Faatal posted some cool Pics and answered some questions outside of a17, and you're still kicking around, but mm's little social experiment isn't working, at least from a forum community relations stand point, which is his prerogative, but you can't reasonably expect it to go over well here.

 

This is the forum community, and between #streamergate, Twitter announcements coming first and now the shut off of communication, the forum members, the guys who feel like they've been with the development from the start, are feeling left out.

 

Right, wrong, or inevitable, it's not immaturity.

 

-Feelings of entitlement without any real investment, is a form of immaturity.

-Spending time shooting the breeze with people on the forum without causing a real improvement to the game, then thinking that's some kind of contribution is definitely an immature viewpoint.

 

I've tried to contribute ideas, but who knows if I helped anything at all and that's my take on things.

[Guppycur]

I don't see a sense of entitlement from folks. If the devs had STARTED with this lack of communication, then sure, but that's not what happened. But it's all perception anyway.

 

And it all had to end at some point.

[Aldranon]

You can type whatever you want.

 

But I can agree with the last thing you said, because if people are consistently caustic and snarky to someone, the relationship will end.

[DaVegaNL]

So you're asking for MM to stop posting on the forum or making videos?

That's pretty much the only way to turn him into a cagey and sensitive corporate spokesperson. LOL

 

It's that or the forum users learning to control their feelings - but that implies growing up and we would never ask such a horrible thing of you guys.

 

No, I'm not asking him to stop posting or making videos. Nice strawmen you got there.

Saying that I'm not grown up. Nice personal attack you got there.

 

Gazz

Fun Pimps Staff

 

Hmm..

 

 

I'm just asking that if he makes such far-reaching and impactful statements, that there's at least a little bit of clarification from his side. And not a week of silence, after which another person has to come in and explain what he probably meant. That has nothing to do with feelings, but has everything to do with clear and concise communication. Wasn't that his new approach to the forum? Drastically reduced, but clear communication?

 

- - - Updated - - -

 

I think you may be confusing their frustration with immaturity.

 

The frustration comes from once having a dev that actively communicated with the community, sparking discussions and keeping things lively, to a dev team that does not. Sure, Faatal posted some cool Pics and answered some questions outside of a17, and you're still kicking around, but mm's little social experiment isn't working, at least from a forum community relations stand point, which is his prerogative, but you can't reasonably expect it to go over well here.

 

This is the forum community, and between #streamergate, Twitter announcements coming first and now the shut off of communication, the forum members, the guys who feel like they've been with the development from the start, are feeling left out.

 

Right, wrong, or inevitable, it's not immaturity.

 

Hear, bleeping hear!

[Maharin]

[DeadMole]

So you're asking for MM to stop posting on the forum or making videos?

 

On the contrary, we want more updates like before.

 

That's pretty much the only way to turn him into a cagey and sensitive corporate spokesperson. LOL

 

That is true though, and we most certainly wouldn't want that.

 

The frustration comes from once having a dev that actively communicated with the community, sparking discussions and keeping things lively, to a dev team that does not.

 

My thoughts exactly, we just miss MM in general haha.

 

-Spending time shooting the breeze with people on the forum without causing a real improvement to the game, then thinking that's some kind of contribution is definitely an immature viewpoint.

 

Well, I think something good can come out from all of it in the end. Think of it as ordered chaos if you will.

 

But I can agree with the last thing you said, because if people are consistently caustic and snarky to someone, the relationship will end.

 

I'm not looking for relationships, only trying to get my point across no matter how difficult it may be. It all had to end at some point indeed, and snark is a way to achieve that actually.

[Aldranon]

Well, I think something good can come out from all of it in the end. Think of it as ordered chaos if you will.

 

Maybe some of the ideas get TFP to think up new or similar ideas. The point was some people seem to feel entitled because they make posts.

 

This #betagate is a perfect example. Even after Gazz clarified what MM said by explaining some things were starting to look like a beta would. People still want MM to say the same thing??

 

Its a sad comedy here sometimes. I wouldn't be surprised if Gazz just stops posting or reduces his posts to official business. The same people will complain that Gazz no longer posts.

[DeadMole]

This #betagate is a perfect example. Even after Gazz clarified what MM said by explaining some things were starting to look like a beta would. People still want MM to say the same thing??

 

Well apparently it needed more clarifying for some people. Sometimes it takes some clarifying and then some more and then repeat something you previously stated in a different manner and then stress something again, again and again... until the message fiiinallyyy makes it through. *Phew*

[Maharin]

Maybe some of the ideas get TFP to think up new or similar ideas. The point was some people seem to feel entitled because they make posts.

 

This #betagate is a perfect example. Even after Gazz clarified what MM said by explaining some things were starting to look like a beta would. People still want MM to say the same thing??

 

Its a sad comedy here sometimes. I wouldn't be surprised if Gazz just stops posting or reduces is posts to official business. The same people will complain that Gazz no longer posts.

 

Thank you for that. I was going to post something to the effect "just because you have a voice doesn't mean others must listen". Not very nice of me, but I just don't get some of the personalities here.

 

7DTD could have been made in a vacuum. Instead TFP gave us a place to talk and discuss things and they even listen from time to time. They're building a game that can be nearly infinitely modified. But some of us here are never satisfied. The aura of entitlement sickens me, truth be told.

 

I've long since got my money's worth from 7DTD. I play it more than probably all the games I've ever purchased combined (on Steam at least... my C64 days consumed more time than I care to admit). I've been involved, at many levels, with many betas of big game titles and none of them even made me feel at all like I was truly contributing. Here, at least, if you post something intelligent you get listened to and maybe even change happens because of it. I don't need the affirmation to feel I have something to contribute but it does feel good to know that this isn't just conversations between players going nowhere.

 

EDIT: corrected feeling to feel... oops.