"The PvP Update"

[Poojam]

Ok then just to be sure.

 

How about you describe this spectrum?

 

Right. Thought so.

[Maharin]

What's PVP?

 

Pushing Vitriol on People

 

Sometimes, at least.

[Gazz]

Pen vs Paper.

The art of making up stuff.

[Maharin]

Propagating Viral Pathogens

 

In 7DTD at least.

[Guppycur]

Pretending Violence is Practical.

 

(little weak, but I like it)

[Maharin]

Practical Vulture Punching

 

That should totally be the name of a perk or book when vultures go live.

[Glimpse]

Pumpkin vs Peanut.

[Omnimetatron]

Premeditated violent Purgatory!

[Gipothegip]

Perfect Voronoi Patterns

[Guppycur]

Pap-smearing Vajayjay's Pleasantly?

[Gamida]

Pornographic Video Pursuits.

 

Personally Vexing People.

 

People Viciously Pooping.

Edited March 1, 2017 by Gamida (see edit history)

[razor1612]

You really didn't catch that until now..?! Slackers!

[illidua]

Not sure if its already been mentioned but what about making an option on serversetup to make the lcb multiplier be ingame time effected?

A friend and I play a lot of PvE and sometimes miss just a tad PvP in our games and came up with a crazy idea if it would be possible to make it so that base raiding was only allowed on horde nights.

Could give an interesting aspect if you can only raid other players when you have your horde chasing you.

i.e. server could be set to:

lcb multiplier is set to 100 or more during normal days.

On a horde night at 22.00 it would drop to i.e. 2 until sunrise.

 

Just a late night crazy idea. :-)

 

Maybe there should be a "if player is online, drop lcb multiplier" in that equation as well, but we thought the concept could give an extra challenge.

[TehRoach]

...is this bickering even remotely productive to the conversation, or does it just further illustrate the negative stereotypes of PVP?

IMO there is a productive side to this conversation and yes it does also highlight many negative stereotypes of PVP.

 

Even though PVP has gotten some bad rap since the introduction of voxel games, PVP in can still be a very rewarding experience.

 

For instance in a voxel based game. What truly are the differentiating factors between grieving someone's base or raiding it?

IMO not much, as I am essentially destroying someone else's work and stealing all their stuff!

 

Maybe the difference is the player's focus or mindset between the two?

ie. If I wanted to grief someone my main focus would be on the detrimental effects inflicted on the other player.

But as PooJam points out; there is a point in game progress, where the main focus in raiding someone is to simply punish them.

 

For PVP to be rewarding it needs to be well balanced.

 

However, currently PVP tends to heavily reward some playstyles and penalise others.

ie a nomadic style player will tend to bounce back and may not even feel any effects of being raided, while a builder style player will really feel the burn. But as 7DtD is a voxel based game it really lends itself to attract the builder style player base.

Hence IMO any changes made to the PVP should probably reflect this.

 

 

IMO the idea I presented is not going to solve the PVP problem, however, discussing why it could and why it won't and why other ideas are better, might.

[TehRoach]

Right. Thought so.

Well as the game is 3D and progresses through time, I assumed the Tesseract was a fitting representation.

However, as you see it as a one-dimensional line or spectrum and are unwilling to bring the conversation up to my level.

I thought it might be easier to bring it down to your level

[caatalyst]

Hello Everyone,

 

Still pretty new to 7 Days and I'm very keen to get stuck into multiplayer. I've seen a lot of moans about bases getting raided while folks are offline and stuff.

 

I think the territory flag / block is a great start but what about making it so that blocks within that radius can only be destroyed by certain very rare items in the game?

 

This has been done successful in games in a similar genre, Exile Mod for Arma 3 for example.

 

You could have wood chargers, metal chargers and concrete charges... maybe some more to cover all block types.

 

When it comes to base raiding, players can only destroy other player bases protected by territory block using these specific chargers. Maybe it takes 3 per block and they take a long time to place.

 

They could be super hard to craft, maybe one component is a very rare loot drop. This would make base raiding require a lot more strategy and a lot less likely to happen.

[caatalyst]

So having played on two different PVP servers properly now and gone through having my base destroyed and all the standard stuff in PVP you would find here is what I think...

 

Land Claim Block for new Players

First a few points suggested in the OP. I DEFINITELY think increasing the durability of land blocks placed by new players to the server should definitely be implemented. Why? Because you have a few 'bully' groups who go round destroying and stealing new player bases within hours of them joining the server. This means that the new players just rage and quit immediately. I'd suggest making the first landblock placed by a new player offer 7 days invulnerability from other players who aren't in their party / group. After that 7 days it could start to lose durability and maybe after another 7 days be at the standard server settings. This gives them chance to get a feel for the environment and get prepared. In the space of about a week (real world time) I built two full concrete bases and those bases were both breached and mostly destroyed in a matter of hours. I had to watch from outside my base as a high level player just dug through and stole 9 land claim blocks.

 

Claim Block Looting

 

Make it so that only the player who placed the landclaim block can get it back when they destroy it. Any other players who destroy it get either nothing or a small amount of resources. This will stop claim block farming on lower level players. It's much easier to steal one from a new base than it is to go and farm the resources at the moment. At the same time, you want to make them really difficult to craft otherwise people will just spam them.

 

Limit How Much Can be Raided from a Base Option

 

Maybe have an option where only so many containers can be raided from one base every 7 game days. This could be customised to fit the server hosts requirements. This will make it way more difficult to wipe out a base.

 

Animals

 

Huge problem right now, it's so rare to come across animals at all. Some servers have added 'spawn *animal*' functions but this breaks immersion massively.

 

Zombies

 

This seems different depending on the server but for the most part if the server is busy zombies don't seem to spread amongst players properly. I've gone for entirely real world days without seeing zombies.

 

 

Destruction of Environment and assets

 

Add a tool for admins to auto replenish things like trees / cars / sofas etc. These things get cleaned out pretty quickly and it makes it really hard for new players who join. If there was a way to repair cities / towns / POIs / terrain that had no player made blocks within a certain radius as well that would be great.

 

Explosive Charges

 

I've seen in other mods / games charges that need to be crafted which are the only means of getting in player made structures. You could have wood charges, metal charges, concrete charges. They all could be really solid to craft and require huge amounts of resources. Especially higher tier ones. This would make base raiding far less common and really risky / difficult. Players would plan better rather than just recklessly going round destroying all of the bases. Maybe the charges are needed for player crafted containers?

 

There's my ideas!

Edited April 24, 2017 by caatalyst (see edit history)

[Guppycur]

Try a 3rd style:

 

https://7daystodie.com/forums/showthread.php?62811-Guppy-PVP-Arena-Server

[7daysguy]

I mentioned previously how the wellness system doesn't really work for PvP, and I suggested spawning with less health instead (but max health staying the same). That might still work, but I think if the character lost a % of experience with each death that would work best. What this means is all skills would be affected negatively across the board. Characters wouldn't lose perks, but all skills would operate at a lower effectiveness. You could call this "being in the negatives". I think negative xp should be temporary and gained back automatically with time, or re-gained through normal gameplay.

 

Since the number would be a percent of your current total, it would never reach 0. For example we call your currrent xp 100, and set a xp loss at 2.5%;

 

0 deaths = 100

1 death = 97.5

2 deaths = 95.06

3 deaths = 92.68

4 deaths = 90.36

5 deaths = 88.10

 

The biggest difference between this and the current system is that it's not *just* punishing your health. It mildly punishes all skills across the board. A player can still be combat effective with 80% of their health and skills for example, but it will suck for them only gathering resources at 80% effectiveness on top of the health penalty. If it fades over times that makes is totally bearable, but still a good determent.

[ForWar01]

Since A16 is lets say near i would like to adress the pvp issue in a proper manner kind of easy to fix, the true problems also.

Why should anyone listen to me? first of all i have been on this amazing journey with this game from a1, i saw all its ups and downs , and all my gameplay experience is just multiplayer pvp (i dont even go to servers that are half pvp or belt drop etc)

I also own, and had big clans/gameplay experience on Ark,Rust,h1z1,Space Engineers.

 

So with all this being said i will try to adress problems in a order of their importance and how easy would be (in my opinion) to fix them.

 

1. Player jumping/relog : Players now can jump unrealistic distances and depending on the height they keep hovering like bats for kms, with little damage taken or using relog to not get any dmg from the fall.

 

This is the biggest breaking problem in 7dtd because the main goal of the 7dtd is building, the creativity is limitless is just beautiful but with this problem people are forced to either build underground or "skytowers" thus cutting a big part of the game (reason of pvp not being so popular )

Fix : Limit jumping to 3-4 blocks then you straight fall down no matter what without hovering foward.

 

2 Weapon Damage: at this point weapon damage is a bit wierd and makes sometimes no sense.

Fix : increase the dmg multiplier for headshot so that with max stats rifle and max perks u can land a headshot oneshot kill (maybe 2 headshots for automatic weapons/pistols . Shotgun up and close from 0-1 m should have same effect if u shot full player body, insta kill. but dmg should be reduced from distance or increase spread.

 

Player Weapons carry. I find it very unrealistic that somone can pull out 10 rocket launchers and 20 snipers 5 shotguns and 3 pistols in 2 seconds from belt or even bag if they are fast enough.

Fix. Limit the first 2 slots to weapon 1 weapon 2. that would require 20 seconds or 30 to equip to that slot but u can switch thru them easy (like in cs go ). and every other ranged weapon in your inventory just an item like others that you are carrying.

OR option 2. make weapon parts stack to 5/10. disable carrying more than 2 fully functional weapons at one time

 

Weapon Carrying part 2. Not only that people can carry and scroll thru dozen of weapons but also you have no idea what to expect.Random naked pulling out 600 rocket launcher from his butt then switching to Ak47 and turn from lamb to mass murderer.

Fix: make some holster models or not even that and place weapon 1/2 visible on a players back /leg

 

Lack of a local/gang system chat. is not important when you play with friends but when you meeting people in the game is a pain.

 

Those are the big problems, in rest is decent ( i did not include bugs , see thru textures etc )

 

As for the leveling up/building durab/landclaims/wellness or every other options i think and i advise to remain the same. This is the unique feel of 7dtd this is the game itself. There is no need to change any of that.

 

The only option that should be fixed or lets say removed should be drop. Should be made drop all on pvp no matter what. On big private servers were alot of talks and i wont go over again on a full explanation. not losing everything makes people abuse of it and keep going without any tactic or fun attacking for litteraly hours until they achieve their goal and the reward for being skilled and winning fights is almost 0.

 

And last advice there should be 2 big default settings (ofc u could tweak them in settings outside game or something ) Pve /Pvp. And that could fix the 9084172 billion servers with 0-3 ppl on them, because everyone "thinks" he know the best settings and usualy ends up messing them up. Also in the long run is helping people, because if u are a pver but u say meh is just bag drop landclaim is 64x i will play on this pvp server, then ofc you build mostly and when somone starts camping you and killing you over and over you wont be that happy because you dont really want to pvp. Ive seen alot of unhappy people due to the unclear settings of a game that they started it, and works both ways.

 

Thats all peps have a great day.

 

For those who still didnt die of old age and want to understand more how the jumping problem is the first on my list.

So this was my pvp base in a14.7 https://i.imgur.com/AmTBNSh.jpg

Decent right? about 4 towers with a main keep in middle, pit, 2 layers of walls, different elevation so even if you pass first wall u cant get in second. (on the edge of the mountain majestic )

 

i dont remember the exact numbers but the main keep was about 12x12 or 15x15 i think, and rest of towers 7x7 5x5 depending, and about 10 blocks of courtyards and walls and 6-7 blocks pit it was. Thats about 29 more or less blocks from edge outside the pit to the middle of the main keep.(keep that in mind)

 

We got attacked by other large group that lasted about 7-8 real life hours (8-9 people attacking us) while we at peak were 4. At first they had no chance with all the shooting spots and defences i created but when they made progress and got close we ended up defending vs WAVES OF PARATROOPERS that somehow were landing right on the MAIN KEEP flying over all those 29 blocks because of frame towers.

They gave up after 8 hours and we managed to defend that day but then i realised the effort needed to defend a base online (cause if is offline is bye bye ) just because jumping is broken. Unless your base is an ugly sky tower from bedrock.

 

Thank you all that endured and read everything i said. PIMPS please stop united airlines from reaccommodating Pvpers in Mid air.

Edited May 24, 2017 by ForWar01 (see edit history)

[Herakles]

As long as our magical and paranormal powered backpack can carry a volume of material allowing us to carry and build the Eiffel tower, we will be forced to create an item with magical and paranormal powers, called the 'Claim'

Then, this claim will create ridiculous situations, with players structures impossible to assault, to destroy, and completely unbalanced PVP.

 

To rebalance all that :

1- Start by adding a weight limit and a volume limit to the backpack carrying capacity. (volume of 1x1x1 Max)

2- Add a sunk mechanism if the backpack player is heavy.

3- Now, a player can't swim across a douve with building supply.

4- To fill a douve, a player must dig a cube of 1x1x1, and carry it to the douve, 1 by 1.

5- Add a falling mechanism to unfixed structure, turn structure impossible to fix on concrete, then people cant empile frame to climb.

6- Now, people have to fill the douve block after block, then they have to build a siege ramp block after block.

7- You can remove the claim, he's now useless.

[69WithAzombie]

Pimps, great alpha!! Do you think for 16 stable you can please fix the bug where you can peek through the ground and see other player bases? I know this isn't the PVP update but it would benefit all players! Also I look forward to all the AI and challenge improvements for the next alpha! Thanks!

 

cant wait for some PVP Love for this game <3

[Guppycur]

That's still here? Thought that was fixed?

 

- - - Updated - - -

 

Oh, this is an old post.

[ColdGate]

The only thing 15A was needed for PVP was fixed night vision, and now we have it, and now is very comfortable to play without maxed brightness. About rest ...

1)Complaining about base destroying:

- Dont build base on PVP server, really, all you need is to hide somewhere workbench, forge, and chest. Its PVP so play ninja-style. You not need building materials, and building tools crafting, all you need you'll get from loot. Build fake base somewhere if you cant play without building, and use it as bait

- Or play on servers where base destroying (not raiding) is forbidden

- Or play on servers with indestructable claims and forbidden raiding

- Or play on zoned PVP/PVE servers

- And of course check if this server with active admins at least.

P.S. If you play on no rules server, it means you play for kill/steal/destroy, so be ready to be killed/stealed/destroyed

2) Weapons:

- Its all about server, good servers usually have modded weapons, like silenced and scoped versions.

- also there are servers with greatly increased weapon drop rate and quality

[drNovikov]

There is no reason to make a visible base, because once a base is found, it is dead.

 

1. For underground bases people should be given an ability to limit the vertical dimension of the claim volume. So players could not hear the "claim sound" and see buffed voxels by hitting ground and trees above.

 

2. To make it difficult to find where the claim block is people should be able to decreas the claim dimensions and make, say, 5x6 inctead of 7x7.

 

3. Attacker respawns should be balanced. It is now easy to just drop a bag and deplete enemy defences ammo / power. People should be allowed one infinite fast respawn at their main base, and their spawning on "raid bedrolls" should become much slower if they get killed near someone's base. Like, + 30 seconds, +1 minute, + 3 minutes, +5 minutes.

 

4. It is possible to just lure a horde of zombies and let them make a hole into an enemy base. This should not work against offline protection.