Another Screamer complaint, or "Why artificial difficulty is poor game design"

[theFlu]

After a bit of quick testing:
The campfire causes a 5 when you turn it on.

 

Clean up one shopping trolley 5.15
Scrap Iron piles, 3 each.
"Wood trash" piles, 1.2.
Windows, weak iron doors ~3 each.
Flimsy iron sheets (one-shot), ~3 each.
Breaking down a zed closet door 1.3 ..
One iron ore node 5.

 

So, show up at a house, start boiling water, clean up a couple trash items from the environment and you're at 25 easily.

 

If you leave a campfire running permanently, for RP or lighting reasons or w/e:
1 campfire + 1 torch, causes peaks above 20. Alone.

 

My third intentional crossing of 25 spawned a pair of screamers.
None of the three attempts were things I couldn't do on day 1. One small mining session, one with a couple campfires, one with a "clear a POI and start cleaning it". I was focusing on things that would cause heat, for sure, but not exactly anything out of the ordinary.

 

This seems to be the design as it was released, I don't really see the need for video evidence..?

[warmer]

over 100hrs in 1.0+ playing solo and I haven't had a single screamer show up at my base. 

I don't use torches or candles. I only ever have a single of each workstation with the exception dew collector late game.

I am not sure why people are getting screamers so often, but I literally haven't seen a single one since 1.0 except for 1 roaming around a POI.

You guys must be doing something significant to generate heat, because once I stopped putting torches and candles everywhere, they stopped showing up.

Edited Monday at 05:47 PM by warmer (see edit history)

[FranticDan]

23 hours ago, Paiper Zombee said:

If not, then it looks like it's time to find a mod that reverts Screamers back to their original state or deletes them from the game entirely.

https://www.nexusmods.com/7daystodie/mods/5693

[FranticDan]

I learnt a couple of days ago, you could have a screamer show up 30 in-game minutes before bloodmoon, and the screamers still have the ability to indefinitely spawn more zombies in the middle of bloodmoon, which is far worse than the bloodmoon zombies.

Screamers are a massive issue now, I feel like TFP don't want you to use guns, or wrench POI's. Because if you do, you'll be greatly punished with a sudden 50+ zombies all around you, FPS plummets, AI breaks because there's too many zombies. It's borderline unplayable.
I'm so fed up with it that I sometimes resort to logging out of my game to despawn all the zombies spawned in from screamers.

I love having a challenge, and playing on the hardest difficulty settings, but this artificial difficulty is unfun and to quote Doom's Nightmare difficulty, "Isn't even remotely fair". 
This game has so many levels of artificial difficulty: getting hit through walls/doors, zombies hitting you from far away when running away from them, zombies getting extra reach when crawling, voxel pathing (thankfully there's a mod that makes them path directly to you), and now screamers.
 

[MirkoVawsk]

My friend and I started a NG on PS5. We were able to get a forge and campfire day one. From day 1 to day 5 we hear screamers but they are no where to be seen. We are built right next to Rekt if that matters at all.

[RipClaw]

12 hours ago, warmer said:

I am not sure why people are getting screamers so often, but I literally haven't seen a single one since 1.0 except for 1 roaming around a POI.

There are two explanations for this. The first is that you are constantly on the move and therefore the screamers hardly have the opportunity to spawn. The second possibility is that the screamers don't dare to spawn in your game and prefer to come to us.

 

[Roland]

12 hours ago, theFlu said:

This seems to be the design as it was released, I don't really see the need for video evidence..?

 

The need is in confirmation from a QA tech who may answer Old Crow's bug report with a definitive "that's intended" or who may ask more questions to try and pinpoint the issue which would then tell them that it is not intended.

 

All we can get from you is that it "seems" to be intended. But official bug reports with evidence can net official answers.

 

I'd just straight up tell you right now if I knew but I don't and so far the community evidence seems to be all over the place in terms of what different people experience and what different people prefer.

Edited yesterday at 06:42 AM by Roland (see edit history)

[RipClaw]

9 minutes ago, Roland said:

I'd just straight up tell you right now if I knew but I don't and so far the community evidence seems to be all over the place in terms of what different people experience and what different people prefer.

This is not surprising as there is a lot of RNG at play here. 20% spawn chance. This is the same as the chance of getting sick from drinking murky water. One person can drink murky water all day and nothing happens, the other person only has to drink murky water once and gets dysentery.

 

 

[4sheetzngeegles]

When playing the default vanilla game, I have everything spread out.

 

I have a claimed and cleared t3 bi-level house 250 meters from the trader.

 

Two dew collectors and a campfire 200 and 250 meters away on my route passing the trader,
I do random pickups a needed.

 

My forge and work bench are in a cleared but not claimed t2 bi level house with removed access,
meaning stairs and ramps, this is 250 meters in the other direction.

 

I pretty much cook on the run, either in front of a poi I am clearing, or near the trader that
morning as I go exploring another region. Making pickups as I return.

 

The reason for 250 meter distances is its the average exhaustion cycle for a single sprint.
So for me basically, it creates my personal supply route. I don't invest in pack mule, It makes
overload more notifiable, since there is no weighted system, On the bike it negates the speed debuff
anyway.

 

In regard to overload I would like to see the animation and the footstep sound drastically slowed
to match. It would make the overloaded mechanic feel more intense. So far no screamers.

 

I have no respawn set, but if zombies respawn in a poi I am using, I cleared it once, I just think of
them as squatters, and remove them as needed.

[theFlu]

5 hours ago, Roland said:

I'd just straight up tell you right now if I knew but I don't and so far the community evidence seems to be all over the place in terms of what different people experience and what different people prefer.

Well, there's basically couple different questions here:

 

Are people supposed to be able to get screamers on day 1? I didn't find anything that would prevent it, so yes.

 

Is it supposed to happen? Likely not, the specific actions you need to do are not really day 1 activities. Mining for iron, clearing garbage from your base; you're "supposed" to be worrying about your food and water supply, ie questing.  Unless you manage to collapse something on you D1 quests, you're unlikely to generate any heat there.

 

When it does inevitably happen, is it a great New Player experience? Depends on the player tbh, but they'll have No idea why their campsite was razed by a dozen angry zeds...

[YourMirror]

35 minutes ago, theFlu said:

 

 

Is it supposed to happen? Likely not, the specific actions you need to do are not really day 1 activities. Mining for iron, clearing garbage from your base; you're "supposed" to be worrying about your food and water supply, ie questing.  Unless you manage to collapse something on you D1 quests, you're unlikely to generate any heat there.

 

Statement of OP was BS.

"Screamers on day 1, the moment you start up a campfire".

 

So again: made up for "reasons" or a bug. Which the old fart just could have put in. But it was too good of a change to do "his thing" again. Maybe some professional help would work. But i highly doubt that.

[theFlu]

4 minutes ago, YourMirror said:

Statement of OP was BS.

"Screamers on day 1, the moment you start up a campfire".

No. He may have taken over a POI (a T1 convenience store or some such) to set the campfire in, looted a few metal shelves at 1.4, broken a couple trollies at 5 and then started the campfire to cross the threshold. Lacking in detail, yes, but as an experience completely plausible.

 

You're also no stranger to hyperbole yourself ..

[Suxar]

2 hours ago, theFlu said:

you're "supposed" to be worrying about your food and water supply, ie questing.

Why do you have to do quests? In such a situation, I usually just rob all the kitchens in the area. If there are farms nearby, you can also inspect the fields for plants.

[Roland]

2 hours ago, theFlu said:

Well, there's basically couple different questions here:

 

Are people supposed to be able to get screamers on day 1? I didn't find anything that would prevent it, so yes.

 

Is it supposed to happen? Likely not, the specific actions you need to do are not really day 1 activities. Mining for iron, clearing garbage from your base; you're "supposed" to be worrying about your food and water supply, ie questing.  Unless you manage to collapse something on you D1 quests, you're unlikely to generate any heat there.

 

When it does inevitably happen, is it a great New Player experience? Depends on the player tbh, but they'll have No idea why their campsite was razed by a dozen angry zeds...

 

I wonder if it makes a difference if you do those loud activities while crouched. The sound of the banging when mining or destroying shelves is quieter but I don't know if that translates to less heat or not. 

[BFT2020]

Day 4 and no screamers so far.  Only things I got right now are one campfire and one dew collector.  For me, I fortify my base with spikes before I start ramping up crafting production.

 

So far I am liking these changes as I get punished if I go too fast in progression without taking the time to secure my base.

[theFlu]

32 minutes ago, Suxar said:

Why do you have to do quests?

This might be lost in translation.. I'm not saying you Have to; I'm saying questing is what TFP likely expect you to do. And even if you do raid kitchens and farms, you're still not likely to hit the heat threshold, since you'll be moving from chunk to chunk and not really breaking loud things => even including that option, TFP wouldn't expect you to spawn in screamers.

 

34 minutes ago, Roland said:

I wonder if it makes a difference if you do those loud activities while crouched. The sound of the banging when mining or destroying shelves is quieter but I don't know if that translates to less heat or not. 

I tried it for a couple of the things, I didn't see a difference. But as I can't even remember what things they were, I can't really say anything beyond "not for everything" - I do expect it to be a "crouching doesn't matter", the world doesn't know what broke the iron and deciding which player's stealth would affect it  ... but I'm not claiming that.

[warmer]

10 hours ago, RipClaw said:

There are two explanations for this. The first is that you are constantly on the move and therefore the screamers hardly have the opportunity to spawn. The second possibility is that the screamers don't dare to spawn in your game and prefer to come to us.

 

Ya know, playing solo, the ONLY time I stay at base for more than a minute or two is digging out below it at night. I never use an auger, and I don't keep a fire constantly burning. I think this is really all it takes. I seriously never see them. Stop placing torches and leaving a fire on and that likely will solve the entire problem people have. The nights are so bright now you don't need lighting unless you are underground.

[Javabean867]

I usually end up making a small screamer 'hoard base' at my home base for just these situations.  I get all my stuff burning and crafting, I'll hear the telltale noises of a screamer, head over to the screamer base, take them out, and go back to my crafting and cooking.  Early on you can handle the screamers with wood spikes before they even get a chance to scream, but i usually don't usually use those.

[Old Crow]

12 hours ago, YourMirror said:

Statement of OP was BS.

"Screamers on day 1, the moment you start up a campfire".

 

So again: made up for "reasons" or a bug. Which the old fart just could have put in. But it was too good of a change to do "his thing" again. Maybe some professional help would work. But i highly doubt that.

 

I'm curious as to why you're so hostile to this, dude. Seriously, what's your problem? What makes you think this is being made up? Why are you so offended by the notion that some folks are having screamers spawn on Day 1? Are you trolling, or just being a @%$#?

9 hours ago, theFlu said:

I tried it for a couple of the things, I didn't see a difference. But as I can't even remember what things they were, I can't really say anything beyond "not for everything" - I do expect it to be a "crouching doesn't matter", the world doesn't know what broke the iron and deciding which player's stealth would affect it  ... but I'm not claiming that.

 

It's a little weird for sure. I've not had any screamers yet myself, crouched or standing up. They do however like to spawn in while workstations are going. There's a weird inconsistency to them. Even running a chainsaw to chop down trees at a tree farm I set up didn't summon any.

[Fenris]

On 10/14/2024 at 1:44 PM, theFlu said:

After a bit of quick testing:
The campfire causes a 5 when you turn it on.

 

Clean up one shopping trolley 5.15
Scrap Iron piles, 3 each.
"Wood trash" piles, 1.2.
Windows, weak iron doors ~3 each.
Flimsy iron sheets (one-shot), ~3 each.
Breaking down a zed closet door 1.3 ..
One iron ore node 5.

 

So, show up at a house, start boiling water, clean up a couple trash items from the environment and you're at 25 easily.

 

If you leave a campfire running permanently, for RP or lighting reasons or w/e:
1 campfire + 1 torch, causes peaks above 20. Alone.

 

My third intentional crossing of 25 spawned a pair of screamers.
None of the three attempts were things I couldn't do on day 1. One small mining session, one with a couple campfires, one with a "clear a POI and start cleaning it". I was focusing on things that would cause heat, for sure, but not exactly anything out of the ordinary.

 

This seems to be the design as it was released, I don't really see the need for video evidence..?

How much heat for cutting down trees? Just wondering since I prefer to build my bases from scratch, there is a decent amount of tree cutting on day 1, depending on my luck with food and water.

Edited 10 hours ago by Fenris (see edit history)

[pApA^LeGBa]

We had a few fresh starts in a group of 3-4 and never managed to get a screamer on day one. Day two yeah ofc they will come, because in coop you can easily get 3 forges going along with 2 campfires. 

 

In SP you just need to pay a bit of attention what you are doing. I don´t really see a problem here when they can spawn on day one. It´s a zombie apocalypse, being careful is the 101 of surviving it.