Is the hype for a new alpha dead?

[Riamus]

7 hours ago, Vaeliorin said:

Yeah, I imagine they were looking for content that would make the game last past day 30 or so (if that long.)  The longest I think I've ever gone in a world is around 50 days (admittedly, I play 2 hour days), and the last 36 or so were almost entirely spent gathering resources and building (well, I also spent 4-5 in game days looking for a nice place to build.  Found a place on a lake with snowy mountains in the background, it was beautiful.)

Well, how long you play a given game will vary from person to person.  Many people play games far into the 100s of days.  I personally play to around day 40-60 on 2 hour days.  For me, I like the game more in the later days when I have enough resources to build anything I want, on any scale I want.  I find the early game boring and want to get past it as soon as I can.  But other people prefer the early game and once they are powerful, which really doesn't take long especially if they want to rush things, then they are done with that game.  It's just a preference thing and everyone will have their own preference.

 

The way this game is designed, you're not going to likely ever see the kind of end game content you get in MMOs or similar games.  It's meant to be more open ended, letting you play until you want to stop and then start again.  Even the intended story for the game will probably be limited to Navesgane only and, for many players, will feel like it just puts a finish line on a game that they feel shouldn't have a finish line.

[meganoth]

On 3/11/2024 at 4:37 AM, Scyris said:

Sorry but rehashing the same game systems over and over, and making the game prettier is not content

 

Welcome to typical game development in the later stages, which is quite boring to a player, and probably even to the developers. I don't think there exists anyone who likes the polishing phase. But it is a necessary part of game development and one that players did never ever experience 20 years ago. Then some game companies started with releasing MMOs in beta and after that kickstarter and especially steam alphas became a thing. Now some of you see a game developed in the alpha state and sometimes confuse it with a service game.

 

That is the danger of an alpha developed game. People participating in the alpha will get to play unfinished game versions, but often have outlived the game or became bored or are dissatisfied with changes, before the game is even released.

 

[Vaeliorin]

10 hours ago, Riamus said:

Well, how long you play a given game will vary from person to person.  Many people play games far into the 100s of days.  I personally play to around day 40-60 on 2 hour days.  For me, I like the game more in the later days when I have enough resources to build anything I want, on any scale I want.  I find the early game boring and want to get past it as soon as I can.  But other people prefer the early game and once they are powerful, which really doesn't take long especially if they want to rush things, then they are done with that game.  It's just a preference thing and everyone will have their own preference.

 

The way this game is designed, you're not going to likely ever see the kind of end game content you get in MMOs or similar games.  It's meant to be more open ended, letting you play until you want to stop and then start again.  Even the intended story for the game will probably be limited to Navesgane only and, for many players, will feel like it just puts a finish line on a game that they feel shouldn't have a finish line.

Sure, but the number of people I've seen talk about spending hundreds of days in a single world probably numbers in the single digits.  Most people seem to start over/quit once they've got top tier gear and an unassailable horde base, which doesn't take all that long unless you play very slowly.

 

I too prefer the later days, and I don't expect any sort of MMO style end game (though from what I've read about the new armor sets, it looks like a Diablo-esque end game is going to be a thing.)  I just wish there was some sort of challenge to the later part of the game beyond just me fiddling with aesthetics for hours on end.

[Riamus]

31 minutes ago, Vaeliorin said:

Sure, but the number of people I've seen talk about spending hundreds of days in a single world probably numbers in the single digits.  Most people seem to start over/quit once they've got top tier gear and an unassailable horde base, which doesn't take all that long unless you play very slowly.

 

I too prefer the later days, and I don't expect any sort of MMO style end game (though from what I've read about the new armor sets, it looks like a Diablo-esque end game is going to be a thing.)  I just wish there was some sort of challenge to the later part of the game beyond just me fiddling with aesthetics for hours on end.

Yes, the end game comes quickly.  They tried to allow things down in A21... And to some small extent did, though they overall effect wasn't significant.  I wouldn't mind another tier or two just to extend the latter game, but I don't see them doing that before gold and probably not even after gold unless legendary items aren't tier 6.

 

Unfortunately, the way the game is designed, extending challenge to later in the game would require them adding scaling zombie difficulty, which means basically a rework of zombies since they are all static and the "scaling" is just a very limited number of different tier zombies. And I doubt they will do that.  The alternative is adding more tiers of zombies and they don't seem too interested in adding new zombies.

 

So more late game stuff is probably going to be limited to mods (mainly overhaul mods).  I really don't see that changing even after gold.

 

As far as the armor goes, I wouldn't compare that with Diablo.  Diablo has prefixes and suffixes that allow a huge number of combinations to give an almost unlimited number of items, which won't be anything like the new armor here.  Unless you are talking only about unique items in Diablo, and that could be compared to basically any have.  If you just mean sets, Diablo sets have a wide range of stats and can vary noticeably with multiple cores of the same set item.  That won't be the case here.  Maybe they'll have some variation in stats but not much, and the available stats will be very limited compared to a game like Diablo.  Better to compare it to another game with set items that isn't a Diablo clone (i.e. not an ARPG).

[Vaeliorin]

44 minutes ago, Riamus said:

As far as the armor goes, I wouldn't compare that with Diablo.  Diablo has prefixes and suffixes that allow a huge number of combinations to give an almost unlimited number of items, which won't be anything like the new armor here.  Unless you are talking only about unique items in Diablo, and that could be compared to basically any have.  If you just mean sets, Diablo sets have a wide range of stats and can vary noticeably with multiple cores of the same set item.  That won't be the case here.  Maybe they'll have some variation in stats but not much, and the available stats will be very limited compared to a game like Diablo.  Better to compare it to another game with set items that isn't a Diablo clone (i.e. not an ARPG).

I was mostly referring to the set items and apparently having the bonus numbers randomized (though that was a long time ago they talked about that and I don't know if that's still the plan.)  I was mostly thinking of farming for "perfect" items, which I suppose you can already do now to an extent. 

 

Diablo was mostly the first thing that came to mind where you can try and farm the same items over and over hoping for a better version to drop.

[Scyris]

6 hours ago, meganoth said:

 

Welcome to typical game development in the later stages, which is quite boring to a player, and probably even to the developers. I don't think there exists anyone who likes the polishing phase. But it is a necessary part of game development and one that players did never ever experience 20 years ago. Then some game companies started with releasing MMOs in beta and after that kickstarter and especially steam alphas became a thing. Now some of you see a game developed in the alpha state and sometimes confuse it with a service game.

 

That is the danger of an alpha developed game. People participating in the alpha will get to play unfinished game versions, but often have outlived the game or became bored or are dissatisfied with changes, before the game is even released.

 

 

This is not my first early access game, I've gotten several, this is however the only one I seen that has redone the same game systems multiple times during its alpha when it wasn't needed. a16.4 skill system was basically perfect pretty much any player who played it will tell you that, it needed a bit of tweaks yes but that was it, instead we got this stupid stat system that hurt the game for solo players.

 

I've had the game since alpha 10.2 or so myself as I think I have mentioned. I got to be honest I don't feel the game has gone anywhere but on a downward slope that started with alpha 17. Game systems were constantly changed to force the player to play a certain way removing sandbox elements from it which was a big part of why I got it in the first place. Stealth was gutted, not just in how it works, but the way zombies are placed in poi's to almost always be behind blocks or furnature etc, it looks and feels fake like it was done on purpose to screw with certain char builds. I get the idea the devs like their jump scares but after the first time its just an annoyance, as you usually cannot attack those zombies till they pop out. There are also too many ambushes in places that make no sense. if I fall into a pit yeah I expect a ambush, but I shouldn't be getting one in almost every single room in a t3+ poi like clockwork, that just makes it boring as you always expect it.

 

Next is the lack of items added to the game as I mentioned already, Steel has been top tier for as long as I can remember, the game needs something above that, and enemies above the current top ones, it doesn't HAVE to be before gold, but just a word from the devs that it is PLANNED is enough to satisfy some people for now. We need actual new items, not just prettier versions of the same items. The art team has done some amazing work, the game looks better graphically than it even needs to, the problem is most of the other area's. As for bandits, I don't even want them to be frank, I never did, as they just feel like a lot of cheese ways to kill the player by insta hitting aimbots. When they do come I do expect them to always drop loot, at least some ammo or something, as its going to be really silly if I can kill a bandit with a assault rifle and then I cannot loot it period when as its a human it should deff have something on its body I can use.

 

Then we have bugs, like the long running stamina bug. If you get below 75% water, you get hit with a 20% stam regen penalty, there is no tool tip or status on the char info panel that shows this, it does not even show in any of the xml's either where most of these are, its a debuff that seems to be purely in the code. It was orignally in alpha 16.4 but it was supposed to be moved to below 50% water in Alpha 17 according to the tooltip, except the problem is, the orignal debuff is still there and still applies once your below 75% water. Only way people notice it is if you pay attention to stam regen, usually its 5 per tick when still, it goes down to 4 per tick when below 74% water and its VERY noticable when your sprinting around or fighting/mining. Its taken me from alpha 17 to a21 to finally get a dev to look into it (I believe they actually even confirmed its a bug I think finally), its still not fixed though, and I am not the only player who has noticed this bug either. The code that causes it, prob just needs to be edited and not removed, like the value that makes it hit at 74% water just needs to be changed so it hits at 49% instead. I'm not a coder though, but the code is the only place this debuff can be, as I can't find it in any xmls. I do find the below 50% water one that lowers stam etc till your above it, but not the one that hits at 74% and below water that severely hurts stam regen till your above 75% again.

 

[Fox]

This is of course just my opinion, but I personally started seeing the game going downhill after A10.4. There was of course a few awesome stuff added like vehicles and some nice graphics rework, but the game overall was still going downwards. The fact that so many things kept getting redone is in my opinion just a waste of time and resources. Had they actually planned the process better, they never would have needed to redo things... at least not nearly as many times as they did anyway.

 

- Crafting systems dumbed down a lot, removing the option to make a lot of stuff from scratch.

- Skills / Perks system is still a joke.

- Looting is so level gated and predictable / boring that it's not even worth wasting much time on anymore.

- Role play elements are discouraged when playing solo and traders are too heavily encouraged.

- Stealth no longer possible most of the time.

- World still feels empty and boring (in terms of activity) with little to no reason to explore since everything (within your level) is within view distance unless you spawned in far away from trader.

- Zombie placements in POIs are predictable and unrealistically dumb. Jump scares are not a thing in this game since it's constant with every single POI.

- "Random" Hordes spawning in within view and GPSing to your exact location is and always will be lame. This also includes the 7th day base defence portion of the game which is still far too easy to cheese and defend against.

- Mining deep underground is now pointless and the terrain seems to magically reset itself now which is also dumb. Also, caves removed. Giving us less play-style options

- Not being able to use any of the water in the world for no apparent reason is really dumb, solar panels being as rare as they are...

- Food / water consumption and stamina drain is still poorly done.

- etc...

 

Lets not forget all the bugs that have existed for many years, like:

- Weird texture / lighting issues where you sometimes see a glow and/or white lines outlining trees and objects at certain times of day.

- Terrain collapsing despite supporting everything correctly

- Countless FPS issues / stutters / micro stutters

- Having too much within a single chunk area causes instabilities.

- pop-in issues

- vehicles disappearing

- etc...

 

Literally everything in the game feels like the devs are trying so hard to control the difficulty and "balance", but in reality, all they're really accomplishing is making the game a lot less enjoyable and setting us down a very narrow path. The game still doesn't have a goal or story / lore. No NPCs of any kind unless you include a few statues in an indestructible world chunk area that sell you stuff and always have an optional mission for you. We just aimlessly go around collecting stuff and levelling up to I guess stay alive and see tougher zombies matching your level. Without a goal or purpose in the game, what's the point? 11 years of development and that's where we're at.

 

So ya, why would anyone be hyped for this game anymore?

Edited March 13 by Fox (see edit history)

[Riamus]

4 hours ago, Vaeliorin said:

I was mostly referring to the set items and apparently having the bonus numbers randomized (though that was a long time ago they talked about that and I don't know if that's still the plan.)  I was mostly thinking of farming for "perfect" items, which I suppose you can already do now to an extent. 

 

Diablo was mostly the first thing that came to mind where you can try and farm the same items over and over hoping for a better version to drop.

I'm not sure many will try to farm armor for a better version.  If they randomize stats at all, it will probably be similar to the weapons and armor stats now.  Sure, you can replace a lower one with a better one but the difference is so minimal that most people wouldn't try to farm them.  And most people probably don't even look at the numbers and just care about the tier in this game because the differences are so small.  But we'll see.

[meganoth]

16 hours ago, Scyris said:

This is not my first early access game, I've gotten several, this is however the only one I seen that has redone the same game systems multiple times during its alpha when it wasn't needed. a16.4 skill system was basically perfect pretty much any player who played it will tell you that, it needed a bit of tweaks yes but that was it, instead we got this stupid stat system that hurt the game for solo players.

 

I assume you know what confirmation bias is? Polls on this website are far from a meaningful measurement, but they are better than your subjective impression and all they have ever shown is that there probably are lots of people who like either system and a third party (probably the biggest) who doesn't mind either way.

[n2n1]

On 2/7/2024 at 9:43 PM, SylenThunder said:

It is apparent that you don't pay any attention to active threads in this forum, or the main dev Twitter account.

Then why is there an official game forum? why should those who are interested in the topic search for information on such disparate resources?

[Riamus]

4 minutes ago, n2n1 said:

Then why is there an official game forum? why should those who are interested in the topic search for information on such disparate resources?

Just about everything posted on Twitter that SylenThunder linked to also gets posted in the Dev Diary that was also linked to.  So you don't have to search "disparate resources" and can just look on the official forum.  It's just that the news tends to appear first on Twitter.  So not sure what your question is?

Edited March 13 by Riamus (see edit history)

[n2n1]

The question was about what is the official forum for?
It turns out that this is a secondary source that receives information after it appears somewhere else? some collector? Why is this not the main platform?
It's very bad that everyone has scattered in all directions. Everyone was here before - and communication between modders, developers and players was better.
Confusion and vacillation.

[Riamus]

2 hours ago, n2n1 said:

The question was about what is the official forum for?
It turns out that this is a secondary source that receives information after it appears somewhere else? some collector? Why is this not the main platform?
It's very bad that everyone has scattered in all directions. Everyone was here before - and communication between modders, developers and players was better.
Confusion and vacillation.

Forums are generally not the best place to use as the main source of information about something.  Their purpose is discussion more than notification, though notification does occur there.  Social media has become the go-to for notifying people about stuff, so that's what they use.  Nothing unexpected there.  I rarely ever go to their Twitter page as I don't like Twitter, but I still get all the information just from this forum, so it clearly works.

[Rotor]

Is there a way for forum to have a feed from tweeter vs actually going to tweeter?

 

Might be a good compromise.

[n2n1]

8 hours ago, Riamus said:

Forums are generally not the best place to use as the main source of information about something.  Their purpose is discussion more than notification, though notification does occur there.  Social media has become the go-to for notifying people about stuff, so that's what they use.  Nothing unexpected there.  I rarely ever go to their Twitter page as I don't like Twitter, but I still get all the information just from this forum, so it clearly works.

No notification - no discussion.

[Riamus]

Really?  There is a lot of information provided in the dev diary threads and a lot of discussion about it.

[theFlu]

Different tools for different purposes.. a forum is like a library, you show up looking for something specific. If that thing isn't there, you start writing the book by crowdsourcing, asking questions. Slow paced and hopefully thoughtful.

 

Social media is like telly, you turn it on and get taken to random places.. you choose a channel, but not really the content. It's designed to grab your attention and take you places, so it has features optimized for notifications. Light weight, best for "leads" at best.

[n2n1]

11 hours ago, Riamus said:

Really?  There is a lot of information provided in the dev diary threads and a lot of discussion about it.

Yes, really.
(i'm talking about the forum, if anything)

Edited March 14 by n2n1 (see edit history)

[Riamus]

27 minutes ago, n2n1 said:

Yes, really.
(i'm talking about the forum, if anything)

Right, and the dev diary threads are on the forum.  The first post of which shows all the stuff that is being added to the specific alpha that has been announced.  And the rest includes discussions about it.

Edited March 14 by Riamus (see edit history)

[DaVegaNL]

It's nice to see the same people defending the same developers for the same things, even after 8 years.

 

Life finds a way, I guess.

[ParadiseLostUK]

2 hours ago, DaVegaNL said:

It's nice to see the same people defending the same developers for the same things, even after 8 years.

 

Life finds a way, I guess.

Well, that works well because we've got also got the same people criticising the same devs for the same things too. 😁

[Scyris]

On 3/12/2024 at 7:14 PM, Fox said:

This is of course just my opinion, but I personally started seeing the game going downhill after A10.4. There was of course a few awesome stuff added like vehicles and some nice graphics rework, but the game overall was still going downwards. The fact that so many things kept getting redone is in my opinion just a waste of time and resources. Had they actually planned the process better, they never would have needed to redo things... at least not nearly as many times as they did anyway.

 

- Crafting systems dumbed down a lot, removing the option to make a lot of stuff from scratch.

- Skills / Perks system is still a joke.

- Looting is so level gated and predictable / boring that it's not even worth wasting much time on anymore.

- Role play elements are discouraged when playing solo and traders are too heavily encouraged.

- Stealth no longer possible most of the time.

- World still feels empty and boring (in terms of activity) with little to no reason to explore since everything (within your level) is within view distance unless you spawned in far away from trader.

- Zombie placements in POIs are predictable and unrealistically dumb. Jump scares are not a thing in this game since it's constant with every single POI.

- "Random" Hordes spawning in within view and GPSing to your exact location is and always will be lame. This also includes the 7th day base defence portion of the game which is still far too easy to cheese and defend against.

- Mining deep underground is now pointless and the terrain seems to magically reset itself now which is also dumb. Also, caves removed. Giving us less play-style options

- Not being able to use any of the water in the world for no apparent reason is really dumb, solar panels being as rare as they are...

- Food / water consumption and stamina drain is still poorly done.

- etc...

 

Lets not forget all the bugs that have existed for many years, like:

- Weird texture / lighting issues where you sometimes see a glow and/or white lines outlining trees and objects at certain times of day.

- Terrain collapsing despite supporting everything correctly

- Countless FPS issues / stutters / micro stutters

- Having too much within a single chunk area causes instabilities.

- pop-in issues

- vehicles disappearing

- etc...

 

Literally everything in the game feels like the devs are trying so hard to control the difficulty and "balance", but in reality, all they're really accomplishing is making the game a lot less enjoyable and setting us down a very narrow path. The game still doesn't have a goal or story / lore. No NPCs of any kind unless you include a few statues in an indestructible world chunk area that sell you stuff and always have an optional mission for you. We just aimlessly go around collecting stuff and levelling up to I guess stay alive and see tougher zombies matching your level. Without a goal or purpose in the game, what's the point? 11 years of development and that's where we're at.

 

So ya, why would anyone be hyped for this game anymore?

 

Your forgetting the stamina bug thats been there since a17, where second u hit 74% water your hit with a hidden 20% stam regen penalty, this was normal in a16.4 and had a tooltip and status icon, but the tooltip was changed to say its at 50%, and the tooltip/status icon does not show at 74% water anymore. Its essentally a hidden debuff, its also not in the xml's at all either i've looked thru them to try to find it. Its a debuff in the code, that they need to change to take effect at 49% water to match the tooltip/status icons in the game, but in A21.. its still bugged and has not been fixed. Try it, watch how much stam u regen per tick (its 5 per tick base, 2 ticks a second it seems for 10 stam/second), below 74% water this changes to 4/tick (8 stam total per sec) with no indicator that this is happening at all other than noticing your char suddendly runs out of stamina far faster than usual. Its very noticable when sprinting around or mining when you hit that 74% or below water. I'd not be surprized to see this bug still existing in a22.

 

Thankfully, its been reported multiple times, by not only me but others, and the devs I believe have finally acknoledged its a bug so thats some progress finally, whether it actually gets fixed or not who knows? The game has bugs that been here since alpha 10.2 and are still here. I specifically say a10.2 as thats when I personally purchaised the game, and I still run across a few bugs from back then that still exist today.

 

I do wonder when the ambient occlusion will get edited though, if you shut it off, all the poi's seem super bright inside, almost like most of the lighting effects depend on that being on to function properly. Usually I shut AO off in games to save performance, but in 7dtd it makes such a massive diff compared to most games that it looks extremly different having it off.

[Scyris]

On 3/27/2024 at 11:04 AM, ParadiseLostUK said:

Well, that works well because we've got also got the same people criticising the same devs for the same things too. 😁

 

My main issue is basically how the game hasn't really gone anywhere since like alpha 10. I mean sure it got prettier, but essentally its the same gameplay with very little to change it up besides rendering certain playstyles unuseable. Steel for example has been the highest tier since I started playing in a10.2 and still has not been replaced with something higher. Least I think steel was in 10.2, we need a new tier of items/weapons/ammo above steel, and new zombies to kill with it and resources to collect. Then we have the pois that make no sense being one way dungeons, and the really artifical feeling placement of zombie sleepers. There is a problem with poi design when you can go into a poi you never been in and already know where the zombies will come from because they always come from there in every poi. besies, who the hell turns their house into a dungeon in the apocalpyse? it makes no sense really and just feels overly fake. Yeah yeah I know realism in aa zombie game is silly, but i mean come on... who is going to turn their house into these poi's in the apocalpyse? I mean they may block the main door/windows, but the inside will prob be pretty open still and not a maze. It just looks silly that almost every poi follows this design.

 

I mostly play the game modded because vanilla is so mindnumbingly boring as its not gone anywhere in like 8+ years. I mean if one guy can add like 4 new tiers of zombies and 3 new tiers of gear that looks decent enough in a mod there is no reason why TFP cannot do this. I usually play vanilla once or twice per new alpha mostly to check performance then I never touch it again until the mods I like get updated for it, as vanilla is just too boring/short. Alot of the features 7dtd has now were honestly taken from mods, as most of them were avail in a mod sometimes years before the vanilla game finally got them. We had weapon mods for example back in alpha 15 or so from a mod, yeah they didn't work as well as it does now as it basically generated a new item with that effect and the mod was not removeable, but it still existed.

 

Now before you say "You play modded so why do you care about vanilla?" as that is the usual defense people try to make, I care because I used to love vanilla, but its just been going more and more downhill with each alpha, it could be so much more than it currently is, but from what I've seen the dev team seems unintersted in really making the game what it could be. Its a shame cuz the game could have been so much better.

Edited March 30 by Scyris (see edit history)

[meganoth]

16 hours ago, Scyris said:

 

My main issue is basically how the game hasn't really gone anywhere since like alpha 10. I mean sure it got prettier, but essentally its the same gameplay with very little to change it up besides rendering certain playstyles unuseable. Steel for example has been the highest tier since I started playing in a10.2 and still has not been replaced with something higher. Least I think steel was in 10.2, we need a new tier of items/weapons/ammo above steel, and new zombies to kill with it and resources to collect. Then we have the pois that make no sense being one way dungeons, and the really artifical feeling placement of zombie sleepers. There is a problem with poi design when you can go into a poi you never been in and already know where the zombies will come from because they always come from there in every poi. besies, who the hell turns their house into a dungeon in the apocalpyse? it makes no sense really and just feels overly fake. Yeah yeah I know realism in aa zombie game is silly, but i mean come on... who is going to turn their house into these poi's in the apocalpyse? I mean they may block the main door/windows, but the inside will prob be pretty open still and not a maze. It just looks silly that almost every poi follows this design.

 

I mostly play the game modded because vanilla is so mindnumbingly boring as its not gone anywhere in like 8+ years. I mean if one guy can add like 4 new tiers of zombies and 3 new tiers of gear that looks decent enough in a mod there is no reason why TFP cannot do this. I usually play vanilla once or twice per new alpha mostly to check performance then I never touch it again until the mods I like get updated for it, as vanilla is just too boring/short. Alot of the features 7dtd has now were honestly taken from mods, as most of them were avail in a mod sometimes years before the vanilla game finally got them. We had weapon mods for example back in alpha 15 or so from a mod, yeah they didn't work as well as it does now as it basically generated a new item with that effect and the mod was not removeable, but it still existed.

 

Now before you say "You play modded so why do you care about vanilla?" as that is the usual defense people try to make, I care because I used to love vanilla, but its just been going more and more downhill with each alpha, it could be so much more than it currently is, but from what I've seen the dev team seems unintersted in really making the game what it could be. Its a shame cuz the game could have been so much better.

 

Sure they could add more tiers. But this is not a service game like World of Warcraft where they add a new tier (aka areas and new quests and weapons) every few years for the **paying** customers. You are just an observer in their development process, it is not their task to keep people entertained for 8 years with new content. Be happy that you got so many hours out of this game, that is not the norm

 

 

 

[Scyris]

4 hours ago, meganoth said:

 

Sure they could add more tiers. But this is not a service game like World of Warcraft where they add a new tier (aka areas and new quests and weapons) every few years for the **paying** customers. You are just an observer in their development process, it is not their task to keep people entertained for 8 years with new content. Be happy that you got so many hours out of this game, that is not the norm

 

 

 

 

True can't argue with that, I got good use out of this game. But it still sounds like a cop out as most games usually add new things to them over time. Rehashing the same game systems does not count as new. The new armor system feels more like a dumbing down of the game than a improvement to many older players, as why didn't they just add these armors with the current system? Before you try to say new character models, I am sure they could have gotten it to work with it, they just took the easy route of dumbing it down.

 

Know what i'd like to see? armor drops that have stats on them, like +1 or 2 str etc, to make the skill system more viable for solo play, not a big fan of each weapon type being locked to a stat, i'd rather it be a learn by doing system for weapons and mining tools, and that controls what perks you can get for the weapons/tools instead of being locked to a stat, which is basically how 16.4 did it.