Dew collector nerf in New update?

[meganoth]

23 minutes ago, fragtzack said:

IMHO, some person in this thread is worthy of  moderator action (suspended post creates for like 14 days). 

 

 A constant toxic drip of negativity. 

 

A constant drip of negativity is not against the rules. 😉

 

[Roland]

13 minutes ago, meganoth said:

 

A constant drip of negativity is not against the rules. 😉

 

 

You just can't fill a toxic bucket of negativity and pour it directly in.

[RipClaw]

19 hours ago, Riamus said:

Few developers give this kind of information out, or rarely do.  They don't have to explain themselves to us.  I agree that more communication is great and I applaud the developers who do provide a lot of details on the process involved in the decisions they make but that is rare and not to be expected.

No, they do not have to explain anything to us, but it helps the players to understand why this decision was made. It is usually the responsibility of the community manager to communicate changes to the players and give feedback to the developers.
 

[Riamus]

27 minutes ago, RipClaw said:

No, they do not have to explain anything to us, but it helps the players to understand why this decision was made. It is usually the responsibility of the community manager to communicate changes to the players and give feedback to the developers.

Yes, it helps... Some people.  But as we have seen here, even when they do tell us the reasons why, it doesn't really change anyone's opinions or make them least frustrated or annoyed.  Part of that is that when decisions aren't logical many people feel like it is just a response to something players are doing that the devs don't like.  If things actually made sense then there'd be less frustration even if people didn't really like it.  I don't even really care about the water changes and magazines and I still think there are things there that are illogical and contradict the stated goals of the changes.  But I don't expect any changes and can only hope my opinions at least get heard by the devs even if they don't care.

[warmer]

2 hours ago, theFlu said:

If it's free for you, then it's free for everyone else as well, no?

Free no.

Time+money. In a game where time is more valuable than money in certain scenarios, waiting for it to be created is the worse choice to make when you can buy it to craft much needed duct tape which you end up using a TON of while leveling up weapons/vehicles. I purposely skip every other tier I unlock simply because the cost in duct tape makes it not worth it. 

As far as player count. I have seen servers with 64 players. To say this is only relative to 8 is missing the point. I just did a search for MP and there are dozens of servers above 20. All that to say. Water is incredible value and when it take a lot of time to wait when you don't have all the time in the world, it becomes worth it to buy as a player who needs a TON of duct tape for their next weapon/vehicle upgrade.

[meganoth]

26 minutes ago, warmer said:

Free no.

Time+money. In a game where time is more valuable than money in certain scenarios, waiting for it to be created is the worse choice to make when you can buy it to craft much needed duct tape which you end up using a TON of while leveling up weapons/vehicles. I purposely skip every other tier I unlock simply because the cost in duct tape makes it not worth it. 

As far as player count. I have seen servers with 64 players. To say this is only relative to 8 is missing the point. I just did a search for MP and there are dozens of servers above 20. All that to say. Water is incredible value and when it take a lot of time to wait when you don't have all the time in the world, it becomes worth it to buy as a player who needs a TON of duct tape for their next weapon/vehicle upgrade.

 

It doesn't matter whether you see servers with 64 people. TFP does not balance for that scenario and therefore has no motive at all to do anything about it, even if water were a good money source on those servers. This is official information from TFP that anything above 8 players is outside their "zone".

 

There are also servers with DF or UL mods and TFP does not balance for them as well, and it would not matter how many there are.

 

 

Edited July 1, 2023 by meganoth (see edit history)

[Kazgrel]

Playing the save my group started experimental with.  We've 32 collectors at our base.  If I clear them all of water, we've a screamer looking for us every 5 real mins (default 60 min days).  Nuisance?  Yes.  Silly change to the collectors?  Yes, IMO.  But late game it's easily mitigated by setting up turrets or just have someone on hand to deal with them.  As annoyed as I was reading this change in the patch notes, it's not as obnoxious as I initially expected.  Still don't 100% agree with the change, but it's nothing to uninstall the game over.

 

Figure the change impacts mid game most when a group needs glue/duct tape for a million different things so more collectors need to be placed.  Turrets may not be accessible and perhaps ammo is still a bit limited.  But late game it's basically a non-issue.

[warmer]

1 hour ago, meganoth said:

 

It doesn't matter whether you see servers with 64 people. TFP does not balance for that scenario and therefore has no motive at all to do anything about it, even if water were a good money source on those servers. This is official information from TFP that anything above 8 players is outside their "zone".

 

There are also servers with DF or UL mods and TFP does not balance for them as well, and it would not matter how many there are.

 

 

I don't think you understand my point. lol none of that invalidates the point I am making. It breaks the economy regardless of whether they intended to balance it for 8 or 64. 20 dew collectors breaks the H2O economy and that is one of VERY few finite/time tied resources a player is required to use in mass quantities the entire game. It's a positive in most aspects of game play in my opinion. It slows progression so one group can't easily run away from the other and dominate super fast. That is always a concern in balance regardless of player count, the money/water economy is simply a side effect of this.

[Slingblade2040]

2 hours ago, warmer said:

I don't think you understand my point. lol none of that invalidates the point I am making. It breaks the economy regardless of whether they intended to balance it for 8 or 64. 20 dew collectors breaks the H2O economy and that is one of VERY few finite/time tied resources a player is required to use in mass quantities the entire game. It's a positive in most aspects of game play in my opinion. It slows progression so one group can't easily run away from the other and dominate super fast. That is always a concern in balance regardless of player count, the money/water economy is simply a side effect of this.

And the helmet filter mod kills it by making water less necessary. 

 

The whole economy thing is nonsense because their isnt one outside of MP. Especially since we can more or less craft every item or get it from doing trader quests.

 

If players are increasing the price then that's a player greed issue. You know like how scalpers do and if folks were already having the money to buy things at inflated prices then that means the economy was broken way before this whole water nonsense started.

 

It's not like this Is some rare schematic that a select few crafters have access to, anyone can make those things. 

[meganoth]

20 hours ago, warmer said:

I don't think you understand my point. lol none of that invalidates the point I am making. It breaks the economy regardless of whether they intended to balance it for 8 or 64. 20 dew collectors breaks the H2O economy and that is one of VERY few finite/time tied resources a player is required to use in mass quantities the entire game. It's a positive in most aspects of game play in my opinion. It slows progression so one group can't easily run away from the other and dominate super fast. That is always a concern in balance regardless of player count, the money/water economy is simply a side effect of this.

 

Lets clear something up first: Are you saying that TFP has probably been doing this change because they wanted to balance the dukes economy? One could read that from "Thats a good 1000 dukes a day for 5 water collectors. the same reason they nerfed corn", but I may have read to much into that statement of yours.

 

 

Edited July 2, 2023 by meganoth (see edit history)

[The_Great_Sephiroth]

4 hours ago, meganoth said:

 

Lets clear something up first: Are you saying that TFP has probably been doing this change because they wanted to balance the dukes economy? One could read that from "Thats a good 1000 dukes a day for 5 water collectors. the same reason they nerfed corn", but I may have read to much into that statement of yours.

 

 

I did not know corn was nerfed. If you have time, or perhaps in PM sometime, I'd like to know how it was nerfed. I remember "super corn" (is that still a thing?)  but am assuming you mean normal corn.

 

As for the dew collector, I have had mostly negative experiences with it since B324. Initially we never found the forge magazines and the entire party dehydrated. Very negative as we had to start a new save. This time around we found the magazines and made dew collectors and, while they took eons to become useful, they kept us going. After B324 we started getting screamers constantly, and I mean every few minutes with eight of them down trying to hydrate four players. Not good. They are completely silent, have no moving parts, and cannot be turned off. No reason to generate heat at all. If I fire up my six forges I expect it, but not this. On top of that, even if you find the magazines you have to make enough dukes to buy the filters.

 

So, if I don't like it why am I playing and not complaining? It's alpha. It will change again or be rebalanced. The team knows what they are doing. They read our feedback. Sit and wait, and good things will come. If I was truly filled with absolute hatred over this, I'd fix it so they make one water per hour and have a ten-slot storage. Heat would not be an issue then as I would only need one.

[theFlu]

53 minutes ago, The_Great_Sephiroth said:

After B324 we started getting screamers constantly, and I mean every few minutes with eight of them down trying to hydrate four players.

You could split them up a bit, say if your trader is 100m+ away, just place a row of them there. At least you have a great fortress is the horde gets out of hand ..

[meganoth]

2 hours ago, The_Great_Sephiroth said:

I did not know corn was nerfed. If you have time, or perhaps in PM sometime, I'd like to know how it was nerfed. I remember "super corn" (is that still a thing?)  but am assuming you mean normal corn.

 

I have no idea. I was quoting someone.

 

Maybe sale price.

 

Edited July 2, 2023 by meganoth (see edit history)

[Evil_Geoff]

I think, after reading several pages of back-and-forth, I understand this whole "TASTES GREAT!" vs. "LESS FILLING" argument.

On the one hand, we have a group of players, who (like me) find the entire concept of adding an utterly arbitrary, nonsensical, artificial concept of "heat" to an item that under no circumstances imaginable, would, in fact, generate heat. 

On the other side of the argument, those who feel that, from a game mechanic standpoint, anything that produces resources or items should have some level of a zombie attraction factor.  In the game this zombie attraction factor is called "heat". 

Game mechanics or logic be damned.

The solution is obvious.  Elegant.  Simple even.

Rename the zombie attraction factor.

Draw, lure, bait, pull, ohshiny...

Those factor names would not offend those of us who feel that things that do not, in any sort of reality, produce "heat", are given a property called "heat".  I mean, c'mon, some of y'all remember when the smell of meat would attract zombies... (That's been reintroduced, with zombies in the area when you kill an animal nose diving on the carcass before you can harvest it.)  Can zombies being attracted to meat in your backpack be far behind?  Personally, I like the idea of zombies going all "Oh!  Shiny!"

And no can argue that it doesn't make any...

SQUIRREL!