Dew collector nerf in New update?

[Lasher]

1 hour ago, Renathras said:

By this token, why even post? Your points are only valid to you and "maybe a few others that agree with the changes, but that means nothing to anyone else."

If people are refuting your points, that means something. If you don't like having your points refuted, don't make stupid points that have already been refuted.

As to your last paragraph:

I want to respectfully say go F yourself, but I try not to be so crass. I will say the two posts you've made in reply here have been you being a pretty big jerk, though. I've been playing this game for years. I have every right to complain about it changing into something it was never original, nor seemingly intended to be when I paid money for it. If you don't like that, stay off the forums. Nothing wrong with not reading forums, as it sounds like the forums aren't for you anymore.

Also, making caricatures of people's playstyle is more "crying about it".

It seems to me you don't like people having different opinions than you and can't stop "crying about it". Seems like from your post above you're just yet another one of those people that is mad you can't post on the forums without pushback from people making good points and refuting your arguments. Maybe these forums just aren't for you anymore. Nothing wrong with moving on.

Maybe don't belittle and marginalize people and actually listen to what they have to say. Who knows, you might learn something.

 

I'm afraid, Renathras, that many of us that disagree with the changes that TFP make and the way they've been developing the game are sadly starting to realise that there's not much value in raising valid points in these forums.

You'll come up against pretty much the same stock responses over and over and seeing as this often comes from folk in a position of power there's very little you can do about it.

For those of us that don't like it we're left with mods - it's the only real option to undo some of the mess - unfortunately that's just the way it is - believe me - I've tried.

[theFlu]

2 minutes ago, BFT2020 said:

I have used a sniper perch at my base to take them out without letting them know where I was and scream.

That, for active people; and for lazy ppl like me, just path your base somewhat reasonably and a couple of spikes handles early issues, and a single turret handles all the later game issues.

[Tactical_Zombeh]

17 minutes ago, Lasher said:

 

I'm afraid, Renathras, that many of us that disagree with the changes that TFP make and the way they've been developing the game are sadly starting to realise that there's not much value in raising valid points in these forums.

You'll come up against pretty much the same stock responses over and over and seeing as this often comes from folk in a position of power there's very little you can do about it.

For those of us that don't like it we're left with mods - it's the only real option to undo some of the mess - unfortunately that's just the way it is - believe me - I've tried.

I stopped posting with complaints years ago because this is always the case.

[meganoth]

5 hours ago, Lasher said:

 

Well ofc you'd label my position "extreme"

5 hours ago, Lasher said:

 

- that's again the label for any dissent.

As for why I do "EA" - I do it plenty - in games that respect the term - so let's not roll out that old chestnut of an excuse eh?

Once again - there was nothing "Tantrum" about it - my position is that there's some serious problems with the way TFP develop - I'm unaware of the cause but if you speak to any serious games or software dev and show them this project they'll tell you that after 10 years it's a car crash.

 

So who is this serious games or software dev? Tell us his name, or let him speak here.

 

5 hours ago, Lasher said:

 

The last parts of your post were interesting - it was bordering on criticism - which is exaclty what TFP are in dire need of.

 

 

There is a very practical difference there. I try out changes and actually test them to find out whether there is something to critizise. You know, the scientific method. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[BFT2020]

14 minutes ago, meganoth said:

There is a very practical difference there. I try out changes and actually test them to find out whether there is something to critizise. You know, the scientific method. 

 

[Slingblade2040]

3 hours ago, bdubyah said:

Except I read the OP and that's what I'm replying to. I don't have time to read the walls of text you're putting out there. It isn't that important. From the posts I skimmed people had just started turning this into another "A21 sucks!" thread and I'm not wading through that garbage to find the one or two useful posts, sorry. They're "valid points and arguments" to you and maybe a few others that don't agree with the changes, but that means nothing to anyone else.

 

Uh...that's the point, man. It was TOO EASY before. So they made changes. Adapt. Or don't play anymore. Or mod it out. I don't really care. Reading through your above post you're just yet another one of those people that is made you can't build some stupidly simple base and survive forever. Sounds like the game isn't for you anymore. Nothing wrong with moving on.

Lol it's still easy to collect a ton of murky water. Folks like you and the mods will defend the most nonsensical updates or anything the pimps throw out because any criticism is according to you folks is whining and complaining.

 

Maybe if you actually bother to read instead of skimming through you might learn something.

 

First it was about water needing to be important and this is a survival game then they moved the goal posts to make it about crafting bulk duct tape and now oh well you shouldn't be able to mass produce water with some kind of cost like *heat* and as usual the same folks applauded every one of those lame excuses. 

 

Wanna know something that would have actually really fixed the whole water thing? Removing those stupid vending machines and nerfing the traders but oh wait then folks like yourself or others said that it isn't fair and to mod my playstyle because reasons. 

 

As usual the pimps made a problem, didn't like what the players were doing and nerfed it. Hell you barely have to craft anymore in this game just do some trader quest and loot that sweet end dungeon loot. Hell even bullet crafting is pointless since you can run low tier infestation with melee and end up with thousands of rounds of ammo by horde night. Game keeps becoming more looter shooter every update because who cares about those kick starter promises since they got the money now.

[Ttocs]

I like it and as someone said its activity not heat, at my non horde base i almost have no reason to make defences because its so quiet. bring on some action and a reason to make defences for it 

[Slingblade2040]

So unless I'm wrong with my little tests. 1 dew collector is 2% *heat activity* every in game hour or so.

 

10 dew collectors will spawn in a screamer after 5 in game hours or so. 

 

Feel bad for those in MP since this will affect you the most. In single player I honestly think this will affect those who prefer perception tree and use demo expert since again this screws you over also. But hey ignore all of that because this nerf was deemed necessary for some reason.

 

Looks like the solution is now trader travel and vending machine travel so you can buy up all the drinks, glue and duct tape till that gets nerfed or they nerf this since folks will use this as an easy exp farm lol.

[AllTheGoodNamesAreInUse]

The solution seems to be to just give up on base building and just spend 100% of time looting and doing trader missions. 

 

Not enough water? FIND IT IN LOOT

Not enough ammo? FIND IT IN LOOT

Not enough Dukes? DO TRADER JOBS

Can't craft anything? FIND IT IN LOOT

 

I get it. Loot, Trader, Loot, repeat.

[Old Crow]

15 hours ago, minisith said:

Kinda pointless like your arguments right?  

Only because you disagree with my arguments. Gotta stroke that Fun Pimp ego, right?

1 hour ago, AllTheGoodNamesAreInUse said:

The solution seems to be to just give up on base building and just spend 100% of time looting and doing trader missions. 

 

Not enough water? FIND IT IN LOOT

Not enough ammo? FIND IT IN LOOT

Not enough Dukes? DO TRADER JOBS

Can't craft anything? FIND IT IN LOOT

 

I get it. Loot, Trader, Loot, repeat.

 

Or "just mod it"

[hiemfire]

16 hours ago, Slingblade2040 said:

So unless I'm wrong with my little tests. 1 dew collector is 2% *heat activity* every in game hour or so.

 

10 dew collectors will spawn in a screamer after 5 in game hours or so. 

 

Feel bad for those in MP since this will affect you the most. In single player I honestly think this will affect those who prefer perception tree and use demo expert since again this screws you over also. But hey ignore all of that because this nerf was deemed necessary for some reason.

 

Looks like the solution is now trader travel and vending machine travel so you can buy up all the drinks, glue and duct tape till that gets nerfed or they nerf this since folks will use this as an easy exp farm lol.

 

Trader shop stock is individually instanced to each player and the filters are supposed to have a good-great chance to be in stock every 3 day reset iirc. Depending on how rapidly they accrue the dukes, shouldn't be an issue for a questing/looting focused group (which is where TFP wants us to focus right now), at max officially supported server size (8 players) a group could end up with 56 collectors chugging along on day 21 or 22 just from trader stock. Fuel-less horde summoning activated by simply harvesting the "workstation" with the check trigger ticking over a little bit less than every 5 minutes real time. If they don't want to deal with the hordes, leave the area for about an hour real time and comeback to the hordes despawned and the collectors turned off due to being full..

 

 

Edit: Seriously, the dew collectors have more in common with farm plots (place down, poke a bit after a set and unchanging bit of time, then walk away and come back later to repeat) than they do with workbenches and forges.

Edited June 30, 2023 by hiemfire (see edit history)

[meganoth]

8 hours ago, Slingblade2040 said:

So unless I'm wrong with my little tests. 1 dew collector is 2% *heat activity* every in game hour or so.

 

10 dew collectors will spawn in a screamer after 5 in game hours or so. 

 

Feel bad for those in MP since this will affect you the most. In single player I honestly think this will affect those who prefer perception tree and use demo expert since again this screws you over also. But hey ignore all of that because this nerf was deemed necessary for some reason.

 

Looks like the solution is now trader travel and vending machine travel so you can buy up all the drinks, glue and duct tape till that gets nerfed or they nerf this since folks will use this as an easy exp farm lol.

 

Was the buildup of heat continuous over an in-game hour or is it a jump of 20% every hour? I would assume it was continuous, but like to be sure.

 

[Rince]

11 hours ago, Lasher said:

 

I'm afraid, Renathras, that many of us that disagree with the changes that TFP make and the way they've been developing the game are sadly starting to realise that there's not much value in raising valid points in these forums.

You'll come up against pretty much the same stock responses over and over and seeing as this often comes from folk in a position of power there's very little you can do about it.

For those of us that don't like it we're left with mods - it's the only real option to undo some of the mess - unfortunately that's just the way it is - believe me - I've tried.

And how about the opinion of the many who disagree with your disagreement? Their opinion doesn't count?

Your opinion is right because... because is yours?

 

I don't know, always bother me when people try to make their opinion more valuable saying that they speak for "them" and when people affirm that they have the only and absolute truth.

 

I may not like all the changes and features, I will forever tell to anyone that ask that A19 farming was my favorite because at least wasn't annoying, but that's my opinion, and only that. I can and will say it, but not try to pass as the absolute truth of the universe.

[minisith]

9 hours ago, AllTheGoodNamesAreInUse said:

The solution seems to be to just give up on base building and just spend 100% of time looting and doing trader missions. 

 

Not enough water? FIND IT IN LOOT

Not enough ammo? FIND IT IN LOOT

Not enough Dukes? DO TRADER JOBS

Can't craft anything? FIND IT IN LOOT

 

I get it. Loot, Trader, Loot, repeat.

yep this is a looter game.    Congrats on finding that out.

6 minutes ago, Rince said:

And how about the opinion of the many who disagree with your disagreement? Their opinion doesn't count?

Your opinion is right because... because is yours?

 

I don't know, always bother me when people try to make their opinion more valuable saying that they speak for "them" and when people affirm that they have the only and absolute truth.

 

I may not like all the changes and features, I will forever tell to anyone that ask that A19 farming was my favorite because at least wasn't annoying, but that's my opinion, and only that. I can and will say it, but not try to pass as the absolute truth of the universe.

 

And they still have not put it back in.  So what does that tell you.....  You are beating a dead horse.

[Slingblade2040]

53 minutes ago, meganoth said:

 

Was the buildup of heat continuous over an in-game hour or is it a jump of 20% every hour? I would assume it was continuous, but like to be sure.

 

Yeah it was on the dot 20% increase every one. I'm sure some folks who are way better with this stuff can test out to make sure.

 

Even if we go with what the trader sells of 3 filters and the thought process was oh each player would only make 3 collecters then a MP server that has a group of 5 people would end up with 15 collectors and that will still not even meet everyone's water needs, especially if someone goes perception for the demo perks. 

 

No idea why they won't get rid of the screamers and just do away with the *heat activity map* nonsense. I rather them increase the frequency and size of wandering hordes. Along with alot of other unpopular stuff like removing vending machines especially now that they sell the freaken buff items. Food and drink aren't an issue in SP worlds but that's a whole other thing. 

 

 

[Rince]

36 minutes ago, minisith said:

yep this is a looter game.    Congrats on finding that out.

 

And they still have not put it back in.  So what does that tell you.....  You are beating a dead horse.

Well, it's the apocalypse, scavenging is kinda in the job discription, isn't?

 

And why they should put it back, only because I liked more? Because it seems that most people don't care.

[meganoth]

3 minutes ago, Slingblade2040 said:

Yeah it was on the dot 20% increase every one. I'm sure some folks who are way better with this stuff can test out to make sure.

 

Strange. That would suggest that screamers can not spawn more often than once an hour (but if you reach 200% or 300% maybe they come in groups). Once an hour (aka every 6 minutes) might be ok for a server with 8 people, they should have the manpower to deal with this in more than one way.

 

3 minutes ago, Slingblade2040 said:

 

Even if we go with what the trader sells of 3 filters and the thought process was oh each player would only make 3 collecters then a MP server that has a group of 5 people would end up with 15 collectors and that will still not even meet everyone's water needs, especially if someone goes perception for the demo perks. 

3 minutes ago, Slingblade2040 said:

 

No idea why they won't get rid of the screamers and just do away with the *heat activity map* nonsense. I rather them increase the frequency and size of wandering hordes.

 

Why is a screamer a punishment for you but a wandering horde isn't ?

 

3 minutes ago, Slingblade2040 said:

 

 

Along with alot of other unpopular stuff like removing vending machines especially now that they sell the freaken buff items. Food and drink aren't an issue in SP worlds but that's a whole other thing. 

 

 

 

[Slingblade2040]

4 hours ago, meganoth said:

 

Strange. That would suggest that screamers can not spawn more often than once an hour (but if you reach 200% or 300% maybe they come in groups). Once an hour (aka every 6 minutes) might be ok for a server with 8 people, they should have the manpower to deal with this in more than one way.

 

 

Why is a screamer a punishment for you but a wandering horde isn't ?

 

 

Screamers are just a ridiculous way to implement a slow down on crafting or gathering of resources. Especially since they can be turned into an exp and loot bag collection farm but I guess that kind of stuff isn't considered bad or an exploit for some reason.

 

A wandering horde has some element of randomness and its something we more or less have no control of when they show up. Heck I actually liked running into screamers inside some of the PoIs I did but was disappointed to see their scream ability wasn't working which I really hope is a bug. 

 

Honestly I wonder if removing the heat map stuff would make any improvements towards performance.

[Lasher]

16 hours ago, meganoth said:

 

So who is this serious games or software dev? Tell us his name, or let him speak here.

 

 

There is a very practical difference there. I try out changes and actually test them to find out whether there is something to critizise. You know, the scientific method. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Firstly - go and ask ANY serious game or software dev if a game of this scope should still be in EA after 10 years.

I persoanlly know 2 devs that have worked on AAA titles and another business app dev. They all say exaclty the same thing - but go take your pick.

 

As for your "scientific" method - the first part is right - try out changes and see if there's something to change or critizise.

Won't you DON'T then do is just stick to that method just to be bloody minded, defend all critizism of it and then try and repair it with gaffer tape and glue.

Which is what happens with TFP.

About as un-scientific as you can get.

And as for testing? Don't make me laugh...

 

6 hours ago, Rince said:

And how about the opinion of the many who disagree with your disagreement? Their opinion doesn't count?

Your opinion is right because... because is yours?

 

I don't know, always bother me when people try to make their opinion more valuable saying that they speak for "them" and when people affirm that they have the only and absolute truth.

 

I may not like all the changes and features, I will forever tell to anyone that ask that A19 farming was my favorite because at least wasn't annoying, but that's my opinion, and only that. I can and will say it, but not try to pass as the absolute truth of the universe.

 

Try reading what I wrote again Rince - because I don't think you did.

 

I did't say that my opinion was the absolute truth far from it - it's my opinon.

What I was saying is that there seems to be little point posting on these forums if you disagree with TFP.

Anyone that does tends to be shot down by the old guard with exaclty the same old tired, flabby excuses or just told to shut up and deal with it.

THAT'S what i really object to.

These forums should be a place for GENUINE discussion about this game - and with a better balanced dev they might even take a bit of the crit on board once in a while.

But oh no, we can't disagree with anything our lord and masters do...

Still... there's always mods...

[BFT2020]

4 minutes ago, Lasher said:

Firstly - go and ask ANY serious game or software dev if a game of this scope should still be in EA after 10 years.

I persoanlly know 2 devs that have worked on AAA titles and another business app dev. They all say exaclty the same thing - but go take your pick.

 

You are comparing AAA game development studios and a business app developer with TFP, an indie game developer?   🤷‍♂️

[YourMirror]

19 minutes ago, Lasher said:

 

Firstly - go and ask ANY serious game or software dev if a game of this scope should still be in EA after 10 years.

I persoanlly know 2 devs that have worked on AAA titles and another business app dev. They all say exaclty the same thing - but go take your pick.

 

As for your "scientific" method - the first part is right - try out changes and see if there's something to change or critizise.

Won't you DON'T then do is just stick to that method just to be bloody minded, defend all critizism of it and then try and repair it with gaffer tape and glue.

Which is what happens with TFP.

About as un-scientific as you can get.

And as for testing? Don't make me laugh...

 

 

Try reading what I wrote again Rince - because I don't think you did.

 

I did't say that my opinion was the absolute truth far from it - it's my opinon.

What I was saying is that there seems to be little point posting on these forums if you disagree with TFP.

Anyone that does tends to be shot down by the old guard with exaclty the same old tired, flabby excuses or just told to shut up and deal with it.

THAT'S what i really object to.

These forums should be a place for GENUINE discussion about this game - and with a better balanced dev they might even take a bit of the crit on board once in a while.

But oh no, we can't disagree with anything our lord and masters do...

Still... there's always mods...

GENUINE discussion? Like callling the devs of this game lazy, incompentent, money grabbing aholes or a combination of all on their own forum? And smashing ANYONE who disagrees with you as "friends of the devs" so they shouldnt have a voice? Yeah sure mate, we all see what you are like. And the way you act, is indeed nothing anyone would listen too. Why should anyone? You act like a 4 year old, not getting his way.  Not to mention the weakness of selfproclaimed spokesman of "the community". As said before, that sort of things is used by insecure debaters without arguments. So go mod and stay in the mods thread. Better for anyone.

Edited June 30, 2023 by YourMirror (see edit history)

[Lasher]

14 minutes ago, BFT2020 said:

 

You are comparing AAA game development studios and a business app developer with TFP, an indie game developer?   🤷‍♂️

 

As in they'd know what a proper dev process looks like - yes.

 

[hiemfire]

6 hours ago, meganoth said:

Once an hour (aka every 6 minutes)

If the game day is still 24hrs long then 1 game hour at default time settings is 2 minutes and 30 seconds.

[Roland]

18 hours ago, Lasher said:

 

I'm afraid, Renathras, that many of us that disagree with the changes that TFP make and the way they've been developing the game are sadly starting to realise that there's not much value in raising valid points in these forums.

You'll come up against pretty much the same stock responses over and over and seeing as this often comes from folk in a position of power there's very little you can do about it.

For those of us that don't like it we're left with mods - it's the only real option to undo some of the mess - unfortunately that's just the way it is - believe me - I've tried.

 

Your problem is that you aren't posting from a position of questioning whether there is a mess or not. You are posting from the foregone conclusion that there is a mess that needs fixing. Because you do that, others who don't think there is a mess or at least still question whether there is a mess or not respond and debate your points. You then take that as people denying the mess and somehow think that TFP is enslaved to those people.

 

This process of debating is actually what helps determine whether the changes are a mess or not. Just because people disagree with your assertion that it actually is a mess doesn't mean that there is not value in raising your valid points on the forum. You can respond to challenges to your position just as easily as people responded to your original point. It's hypocritical of you to say that you can't post your valid concerns when you are essentially calling for people responding with their valid concerns to be silenced. Patience and being willing to phrase your concerns in compelling ways and then rephrase them if necessary in response to a counterpoint is how good arguments emerge on both sides of any issue.

 

Ultimately, everyone who has a particular set of preferences that are not represented by the vanilla version of the game is going to have to use mods in order to gain that set of preferences. But that isn't because anyone argued against your point on the forum. It's because the developers made a final decision after testing and feedback and oftentimes lots of debate.

[Lasher]

13 minutes ago, YourMirror said:

GENUINE discussion? Like callling the devs of this game lazy, incompentent, money grabbing aholes or a combination of all on their own forum? And smashing ANYONE who disagrees with you as "friends of the devs" so they shouldnt have a voice? Yeah sure mate, we all see what you are like. And the way you act, is indeed nothing anyone would listen too. Why should anyone? You act like a 4 year old, not getting his way.  Not to mention the weakness of selfproclaimed spokesman of "the community". As said before, that sort of things is used by insecure debaters without arguments. So go mod and stay in the mods thread. Better for anyone.

 

Calling it exaclty as I see it.

And where exaclty did I say that I was speaking for "the community"?

Once again YourMirror - learn to read before responding - I'm saying that everybody should be aloowed to have their opinion - whether they agree with TFP or not.

 

And you talking about the way I post?

The only person who mentioned the word "aholes" is you - which is pretty typical of your posting response to anyone who disagrees with you.

Rich. Pot - Kettle much?