If A POI Has Zombie Dogs, It Should Be Minimum Tier 2

[Vaeliorin]

Even as an experienced (though mediocre at best) player, Day 1 dogs are almost guaranteed death.  In my most recent game, I cleared out a Tier 3 POI to live in, then went to do my first quest.  It was a POI I was unfamiliar with, so I hopped up on the "walls" (it was surrounded by cars) to get a brief look at it before I hit the quest marker.  Apparently I woke up a zombie or two doing that, so I was fighting them off, when out of nowhere comes a dog, and basically instant death (with lots of critical injuries) ensued.

 

I can't help but think this would be a terrible experience for a new player (and was enough for me to put the game down in frustration.)

 

This is especially true if you're going to keep hiding them in places you literally can't see them until you're right on top of them, unless you go up onto the roof for some random reason.  The trailer park POI with the 6 trailers has a dog surrounded on 3 sides by various garbage-esque blocks, and a palette of cobble/clay sitting one block away, so that you'd have to be basically on top of it before you can even see it.  Even knowing it was in the POI (though not it's exact location) I very nearly didn't see it, even though I was specifically looking for it, because it just seemed part of the trash pile.

 

If you insist on putting dogs in T1 POIs, they need to be out in the open, because if you don't see them (even if you see the dog house/crate, since it's not a 100% indicator and isn't tied to the location of the dog) you really can't take steps to deal with them.

 

I await your "git gud" comments.

[Survior]

You have a point. I think it's easier to take out a feral than a dog. If I'm not mistaken it seems like dogs don't always spawn at low level game stages at all POIs, (maybe they do) but maybe they shouldn't. Going into a lv1 gas station naked to get jumped by a dog on day one is kinda bull@%$#.

 

[Vaeliorin]

55 minutes ago, Survior said:

You have a point. I think it's easier to take out a feral than a dog. If I'm not mistaken it seems like dogs don't always spawn at low level game stages at all POIs, (maybe they do) but maybe they shouldn't. Going into a lv1 gas station naked to get jumped by a dog on day one is kinda bull@%$#.

 

There are a number of Tier 1 POIs now that always have a dog.  It's not a random spawn, it's a hand placed specific dog spawn.  And yeah, it's ridiculous to go to a Tier 1 house or convenience store and to get jumped by a dog on Day 1.

 

There's a gas station POI that has had a dog since at least Alpha 20, but it's behind a door, and as soon as you open the door it's very obvious, and you can stealth kill it with a bow (assuming you didn't wake up the whole POI somehow) very easily.  I don't mind that.  But dogs you can't see that aggro from quite a distance are just awful in a Tier 1 POI.

[Riamus]

I agree that the dogs probably shouldn't be in the tier 1 POIs.  As far as I have seen, if there is a dog house, there's always a dog.  I haven't seen any cases where that wasn't true, though the dog isn't always found unless you really scout the entire POI.  I saw one dog in a trailer that isn't tied to the quest in one POI, for example.  And I've seen where that doghouse that should warn the player of the danger is after the dog instead of before it, which doesn't make much sense.  The dogs should either not be in tier 1 or else they should be possible to find without triggering them if you're careful and the doghouse should always appear before you come to the dog.  I think it should also be in the same area as the dog, though I'm willing to let that slide as long as you see the doghouse before the dog (assuming you're following the intended path).

Edited June 26, 2023 by Riamus (see edit history)

[Khalagar]

I would uniroincally rather fight a radiated wight than a dog or 2 vultures. I'd rather fight a normal wight than 1 vulture

 

Even just today, I literally almost died to a single vulture that hit me 98 times and gave me every status ailment known to man, then after I FINALLY killed the beast, I casually cleared the entire rest of the Poi without effort including killing the ferals and radiated.

 

Dogs are scarier at level 40 than a cop, at level 1 it's an instant shrieking panic for everyone I've played with. You just hear screams of "DOG DOG DOG DOG HELP" before seeing that they died on the side of the screen

[Riamus]

12 minutes ago, Khalagar said:

I would uniroincally rather fight a radiated wight than a dog or 2 vultures. I'd rather fight a normal wight than 1 vulture

 

Even just today, I literally almost died to a single vulture that hit me 98 times and gave me every status ailment known to man, then after I FINALLY killed the beast, I casually cleared the entire rest of the Poi without effort including killing the ferals and radiated.

 

Dogs are scarier at level 40 than a cop, at level 1 it's an instant shrieking panic for everyone I've played with. You just hear screams of "DOG DOG DOG DOG HELP" before seeing that they died on the side of the screen

Lol.  Yep, exactly.  Though I have to admit that I really like power attacking a vulture flying at me while using a spear (probably works with other weapons).  Seeing them sent flying 20m+ away from me is just fun. 

 

Regarding the dogs, I will stop everything else I'm doing as soon as I hear a dog and focus all my attention there even if I'm surrounded because that dog is going to be the death of me far faster than a bunch of zombies.  Once I have a gun, even if I'm normally still doing melee through POIs, that gun will be out ASAP when a dog growls.

Edited June 26, 2023 by Riamus (see edit history)

[Survior]

I save basically all my ammo for dogs, vultures and bears until later middle game when I'm walking tier4-5 POI gotcha rooms.

 

[Lokeus]

What are you all playing like? Heavy armor style?

I very often play with light armor and so i am very mobile, when hearing dog, i spot as fast as i can high ground, jump on it = danger level 0. Learn acrobatics level 2 and jumping onto high ground for advantage against enemies, especially against animals will grow even bigger. Plus doggys are really really vulnerable. They only make bigger problems when being in a pack, for those reason i often got explosive arrows with me. Oh and speaking about the bow: when i seeing dog hut, i am looking for the dog from above and kill him in sneak mode, they aren`t positioned very smart very often, for obvious reasons. Of course they are able to suprise me sometimes too, but zombies do that too. Uhm... we didn`t speak of new shothole mechanic at doors. One more new penalty for animals.

Don`t fear them much. Really. My cryptonite are dire wolfs and (1500 HP? on difficulty 7of8?) and saber tooth tigers in snow bioms. Moderate resistance plus very high speed plus very common spawn rate in this biome. When i see one he has to die asap.

Edited June 26, 2023 by Lokeus (see edit history)

[theFlu]

7 hours ago, Khalagar said:

Dogs are scarier at level 40 than a cop, at level 1 it's an instant shrieking panic for everyone I've played with. You just hear screams of "DOG DOG DOG DOG HELP" before seeing that they died on the side of the screen

If that's an actual experience; cobblestone.

Two blocks on your toolbelt at all times.

Hear growl => nerdpole up two blocks.

Now you have all the time in the world to figure out what to do next, so I won't get into that.

Edited June 26, 2023 by theFlu (see edit history)

[Survior]

1 hour ago, theFlu said:

If that's an actual experience; cobblestone.

Two blocks on your toolbelt at all times.

Hear growl => nerdpole up two blocks.

Now you have all the time in the world to figure out what to do next, so I won't get into that.

You can basically do that for every zombie though as well, if you have time.

 

[Riamus]

2 hours ago, Lokeus said:

What are you all playing like? Heavy armor style?

I very often play with light armor and so i am very mobile, when hearing dog, i spot as fast as i can high ground, jump on it = danger level 0. Learn acrobatics level 2 and jumping onto high ground for advantage against enemies, especially against animals will grow even bigger. Plus doggys are really really vulnerable. They only make bigger problems when being in a pack, for those reason i often got explosive arrows with me. Oh and speaking about the bow: when i seeing dog hut, i am looking for the dog from above and kill him in sneak mode, they aren`t positioned very smart very often, for obvious reasons. Of course they are able to suprise me sometimes too, but zombies do that too. Uhm... we didn`t speak of new shothole mechanic at doors. One more new penalty for animals.

Don`t fear them much. Really. My cryptonite are dire wolfs and (1500 HP? on difficulty 7of8?) and saber tooth tigers in snow bioms. Moderate resistance plus very high speed plus very common spawn rate in this biome. When i see one he has to die asap.

Some areas, you can do this.  However, the dogs can be inside as well as outside and that limits options.  Doors do work if you can reach one.  But I don't play a stealth character who attacks from the shadows  ... I am very much the "tank" who doesn't run from a fight except when there's no other choice.  Lol. 

[Vaeliorin]

5 hours ago, Lokeus said:

What are you all playing like? Heavy armor style?

I very often play with light armor and so i am very mobile, when hearing dog, i spot as fast as i can high ground, jump on it = danger level 0. Learn acrobatics level 2 and jumping onto high ground for advantage against enemies, especially against animals will grow even bigger. Plus doggys are really really vulnerable. They only make bigger problems when being in a pack, for those reason i often got explosive arrows with me. Oh and speaking about the bow: when i seeing dog hut, i am looking for the dog from above and kill him in sneak mode, they aren`t positioned very smart very often, for obvious reasons. Of course they are able to suprise me sometimes too, but zombies do that too. Uhm... we didn`t speak of new shothole mechanic at doors. One more new penalty for animals.

Don`t fear them much. Really. My cryptonite are dire wolfs and (1500 HP? on difficulty 7of8?) and saber tooth tigers in snow bioms. Moderate resistance plus very high speed plus very common spawn rate in this biome. When i see one he has to die asap.

Very early game, which is what I'm talking about, whatever the heck I've found.  I'm talking about being level 1 or 2.  My previous world were I was level 60-something, I'd just punch the dogs in the face when they attacked, they weren't an issue.

 

That's specifically what I'm talking about is Tier 1 POIs that you're likely doing in the first couple of days.  Once you've got some reasonable gear and skill points, dogs aren't that bad.

[BFT2020]

And completely not an issue.  I been loving having to deal with dogs at early levels, it means I can't get complacent as I move around the world.

 

As an agility player, I always am on my toes to retreat at a moment's notice, dogs are no different (and you hear them approaching so plenty of time to fall back to a better defensible position).

[Survior]

A tryhard with 3k posts doesn't represent the new player experience who shouldn't get whacked in a t1 POI just because lolz.

 

No offense

 

[Mister Forgash]

I'm inclined to agree Dogspawns in T1 either shouldn't be there, or should be in a position that gives the player ample time to recognize the threat and figure out what to do- just since these are what newer players will likely be exposed to, and turning a corner to find a dog eye level with the tender bits is a miserable way to learn to be afraid.

[Scyris]

23 hours ago, Khalagar said:

I would uniroincally rather fight a radiated wight than a dog or 2 vultures. I'd rather fight a normal wight than 1 vulture

 

Even just today, I literally almost died to a single vulture that hit me 98 times and gave me every status ailment known to man, then after I FINALLY killed the beast, I casually cleared the entire rest of the Poi without effort including killing the ferals and radiated.

 

Dogs are scarier at level 40 than a cop, at level 1 it's an instant shrieking panic for everyone I've played with. You just hear screams of "DOG DOG DOG DOG HELP" before seeing that they died on the side of the screen

 

Tips for doggo's. Always keep wood frames aka building blocks on your bar, you got one chasing you? find the nearest wall and nerd pole up the side of it asap, then take it out in whatever manner you see fit. If your in the open, nerd pole 3 high, and then make your own little wall quickly, then kill the dog. I play on warrior myself and yeah the zombie dogs are BS on day 1-3, I avoid them at all costs. I I do have to kill one I just hope I get it while its sleeping as even on warrior with no perks a sneak attack primitive bow stone arrow to the head will usually 80% kill it if it doesn't one shot, and then a 2nd hit with almost anything else finishes it.

2 hours ago, Mister Forgash said:

I'm inclined to agree Dogspawns in T1 either shouldn't be there, or should be in a position that gives the player ample time to recognize the threat and figure out what to do- just since these are what newer players will likely be exposed to, and turning a corner to find a dog eye level with the tender bits is a miserable way to learn to be afraid.

 

Well I mean if your running thru any poi poping off guns like a nutjob then you kinda deserve everything you pull as you made the noise to aggro it. Most dogs in poi's are sleepers who are always in a inactive state on spawn. I say most as there are some poi's where they spawn mid sleeper volume and just come out of no where. That tier 1 Joe's Usa poi is a prime example of this. I still don't even know where that dog spawns from in there is. It seems to not be a guarnteed spawn as there are times i've done a clear quest for it, and the dog was not there. When it is there its usually when your in the outside part and 2 zombies bust out of a shed, as you fight them, the dog just kinda comes out of no where assuming it spawns.

[Syphon583]

10 hours ago, Survior said:

A tryhard with 3k posts doesn't represent the new player experience who shouldn't get whacked in a t1 POI just because lolz.

 

No offense

 

This is a ridiculous reply. Stop throwing "No offense" at the end of statements that were clearly meant to be offensive.

 

The number of posts literally has nothing to do with BFT's skill as a player. He's an active modder who has intimate knowledge of the game. However, yes, he is an experienced player and his addition to the thread proves that through playing and learning the game, you can overcome obstacles like dogs in tier 1 POIs.

 

This game has been incredibly easy for a long time and adding a new threat like dogs to lower-tier POIs just means the player can't walk around without a care or worry. How about players adapt to the game and learn strategies to overcome new challenges?

[Survior]

3 minutes ago, Syphon583 said:

This is a ridiculous reply. Stop throwing "No offense" at the end of statements that were clearly meant to be offensive.

 

The number of posts literally has nothing to do with BFT's skill as a player. He's an active modder who has intimate knowledge of the game. However, yes, he is an experienced player and his addition to the thread proves that through playing and learning the game, you can overcome obstacles like dogs in tier 1 POIs.

 

This game has been incredibly easy for a long time and adding a new threat like dogs to lower-tier POIs just means the player can't walk around without a care or worry. How about players adapt to the game and learn strategies to overcome new challenges?

How about someone who has been playing for 5-10 years stops complaining the game is too easy one day1 for their tastes?

[BFT2020]

13 hours ago, Survior said:

A tryhard with 3k posts doesn't represent the new player experience who shouldn't get whacked in a t1 POI just because lolz.

 

No offense

 

 

Some people like to engage, like to contribute, and like to help others.

 

Some people like to try and tear down others.

 

I'm comfortable with myself being the former, so no offense taken.  🤷‍♂️

[Survior]

6 minutes ago, BFT2020 said:

 

Some people like to engage, like to contribute, and like to help others.

 

Some people like to try and tear down others.

 

I'm comfortable with myself being the former, so no offense taken.  🤷‍♂️

 

Good, because I don't mean any, but the fact remains, I would hope a dog in a t1 POI wouldn't be any challenge for you, otherwise it would be a real disaster for new players.  But I also mean by this that your perspective might be based on experience of knowing how to deal with things and dogs, while a new player in taking on a t1 POI with a dog is likely going to end up dog food especially if any other zombies or whatnot are involved. I just don't think it's balanced, t2+ or whatever I'm perfectly fine with.

 

[unholyjoe]

Spoiler

1. the amount of posts has no bearing on how much game experience someone has. the poster may or may not even have 10 hours in the game.

2. if a newbie/fresh spawned character goes into a t1 and just started the game with no armor or good weapons... then he is trespassing and the owner has the right to protect his property so you need to leave before he sicks the dog(s) on you.

3. if you do hear the dogs... run.

4. if death is the result... chalk it up to LBD (learn by dying) and try not to repeat history.

 

 

seriously tho... i know what you are saying but the easiest poi(s) are T0 or just simple little partial structures. T1s and above are meant to give some level of game play and or difficulty for questing or investigating and its up to the player to play in that to which he/she can handle.

 

if the T1 is just so irresistible at first, then player needs to be better prepared for it. the new skull system in the HUD should cause the player to think before leaping.

 

now the other serious question is... which T1 poi exactly had the dog in it.

 

FREE Tip... if a poi has a dog house on it... be very suspicious.. same as peaking on a roof and seeing a nest... may or may not have vultures..

 

oh and i am seriously not being offensive here either... hence the smileys

 

 

Edited June 27, 2023 by unholyjoe (see edit history)

[warmer]

dogs are why I always keep some frame blocks in my toolbelt. Fast get away.

 

If you play like every backyard has a dog, you are much less surprised. Ones inside are a serious pain though. Play the floor is lava. That gives you a little move time to get distance between you.

[BFT2020]

51 minutes ago, Survior said:

 

Good, because I don't mean any, but the fact remains, I would hope a dog in a t1 POI wouldn't be any challenge for you, otherwise it would be a real disaster for new players.  But I also mean by this that your perspective might be based on experience of knowing how to deal with things and dogs, while a new player in taking on a t1 POI with a dog is likely going to end up dog food especially if any other zombies or whatnot are involved. I just don't think it's balanced, t2+ or whatever I'm perfectly fine with.

 

 

The thing is though, whether you are a veteran or an amateur, the best way to learn is to fail and respond to that failure.

 

If you go into any POI in this game thinking failing the quest or having to retreat is not an option, then what have you really learned?  You are basically just limiting what options you have in the game.  Just like if you think the only worthwhile food is bacon & eggs and meat stew, you limited yourself to what else is out there.

 

I was once an amateur too, I wasn't born a 7D2D veteran; I learned how to play the game through dying and trying new things.

 

And yes, I would still have the same opinion on T1 and Zombie dogs even if I just bought the game.  Dying in this game is never a failure, but a learning experience.

[Vaeliorin]

44 minutes ago, unholyjoe said:

  Reveal hidden contents

1. the amount of posts has no bearing on how much game experience someone has. the poster may or may not even have 10 hours in the game.

2. if a newbie/fresh spawned character goes into a t1 and just started the game with no armor or good weapons... then he is trespassing and the owner has the right to protect his property so you need to leave before he sicks the dog(s) on you.

3. if you do hear the dogs... run.

4. if death is the result... chalk it up to LBD (learn by dying) and try not to repeat history.

 

 

seriously tho... i know what you are saying but the easiest poi(s) are T0 or just simple little partial structures. T1s and above are meant to give some level of game play and or difficulty for questing or investigating and its up to the player to play in that to which he/she can handle.

 

if the T1 is just so irresistible at first, then player needs to be better prepared for it. the new skull system in the HUD should cause the player to think before leaping.

 

now the other serious question is... which T1 poi exactly had the dog in it.

 

FREE Tip... if a poi has a dog house on it... be very suspicious.. same as peaking on a roof and seeing a nest... may or may not have vultures..

 

oh and i am seriously not being offensive here either... hence the smileys

 

 

As I mentioned, I'd already cleared a T3 POI just before, so it's not like I can't handle a T1.

 

Anyway, the POI was The Purser Residence, and apparently the dog is a fairly rare spawn, because I reset the POI 5 times, and never saw it again.

 

But things like this

are pretty ridiculous.  There's no way you're going to see that dog before you're right on top of it.  In a T2 or higher, fine, whatever.  In a T1, that's just cruel.  And the only reason I'm on the roof is because I knew the dog was there, and was trying to find it and kill it before it killed me.  There's literally no other reason to go up on the roof.

 

12 minutes ago, BFT2020 said:

Dying in this game is never a failure, but a learning experience.

Dying in any game is failure.

[meilodasreh]

1 hour ago, unholyjoe said:

be very suspicious

If it was only that, ok.

 

Yeah, it should make you suspicious when a poi is called "Husky something...".

And also yeah, it should make you even more suspicious when you see many bone piles in the attic.

 

But it is still unnecessary to conceal the dog in an invisible compartment behind a seemingly solid, doorless wall.

And there are many other examples.

 

I really don't like that in general, also with zombies,

cause it just feels cheesy to put dogs or zombies into this kind of "boo-effect places"

 

Make them crash through a door or a window when you trigger the volume, that's fine and I'm willing to poop my pants in these moments.

Make them seem to fall/crawl out of ventilation ducts, maybe chimneys and so on, and I'll be happily changing my undies again.

There are many options.

 

But having them coming out of solid walls, for me that is annoying and immersion breaking and not a funny scare.