Alpha 21 Discussion Overflow

[Callum123456789]

Yeah them continuing to support a game for over 10 years with no extra pay fees to in game content doesn't sound like milking a game to me.

 

There's a specific company in mind that does milk a game and their customers huh I wonder what it could be *cough* *cough* grand theft auto 5 online.

 

[YourMirror]

3 hours ago, Cr0wst0rm said:

I meant visual attachments, but ok, performance are there and I am aware of that. 

 

Armchair dev right here. Doesnt even play the game (properly) "Vehicles dont have attachments".  -> "But crowstorm, they do." -> "eeeh yeh...uuuh of course i knew that, i meant eeeh, visual attachments". 

[Norman Reedus]

hi,could we forget the tedious updates of A21 and focus on another interesting thing?I mean the darkness should be the real darkness. Don't leave an option which allows players to adjust their brightness. That is definitely a failure for  a horror game.  Leave a variety of lighting tools and tell players to take them up when night falls. As for night, we need a real night, when sometimes we can see moonlight and feel good, but mostly  players are surrounded by  frightening darkness, hawling winds and fringing rains.This is  doom day, not game day. Isn't it the very thing Fun Pimp should update.? Everyone is working hard on how to improve the structure or framework to ensure a safe landing for a space shuttle, but why not add a parachute to its tail?

[hiemfire]

38 minutes ago, Norman Reedus said:

hi,could we forget the tedious updates of A21 and focus on another interesting thing?I mean the darkness should be the real darkness. Don't leave an option which allows players to adjust their brightness. That is definitely a failure for  a horror game.  Leave a variety of lighting tools and tell players to take them up when night falls. As for night, we need a real night, when sometimes we can see moonlight and feel good, but mostly  players are surrounded by  frightening darkness, hawling winds and fringing rains.This is  doom day, not game day. Isn't it the very thing Fun Pimp should update.? Everyone is working hard on how to improve the structure or framework to ensure a safe landing for a space shuttle, but why not add a parachute to its tail?

Turn down your monitor brightness. You may have it set too high.

[Roland]

12 hours ago, Cr0wst0rm said:

It is obvious at this point that they are either milking the living (you know what) out of the game/focusing all their workforce at the new game developed on Unreal Engine (presumably 5)

EDIT:
Do not get me wrong, I very appreciate the new changes, however for a year of time, it feels like a very little/no progress regarding the game mechanics at all.

For example, they could have widened vehicle progression with adding attachments to the vehicles, just like they have it with weapons. It is not in the game (from what I know) and I am not even sure if it will ever happen (please, prove me wrong, I want to be wrong). And the fact they've increased vehicle damage is laughable, since it is just a 1 LINE OF CODE.

 

Remaining in early access and spending money for ongoing development and hiring specialized talent is not milking. You may not be able to see all the labor-intensive work that has been done on this game over the past 18 months but I can assure you that the amount of development put into this game has been epic. You want extra content because you're bored of the current content and so are dismissive of the type of work that has been done but that doesn't change the fact that TFP has been busy.

 

Nobody on the 7 Days to Die team is ignoring this game to work on some future project. They have an entirely different team working on their next project and nothing that team does steals any talent or resources or time from this game. There really is no more to say about non-7 Days to Die projects though since that is off-topic for this thread. The 7 Days to Die team is 100% focused on getting this game finished which is why they are not spending time doing extra content that expands the base game even though there are those that only want those kinds of updates.

 

The change to vehicle damage was not simply increasing vehicle damage. It was balancing vehicle damage with environmental damage and damage to zombies. It was adding graphical indicators of the damage that vehicles are taking and when that damage is getting close to complete vehicle failure. It was also adding graphical indicators to zombies for their damage from vehicles. It also included changes to the Grease Monkey perk and the balance of how much damage repair kits fix. It also involved play testing to dial in the right amount of damage and fixing to make the feature balanced.  It was a bit more than one line of code.

[Slasher]

milk duds include yearly sport release, FIFA 98, 99, 00, 01, 02, 03, 04, 05, 06, 07, 08, 09, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23


now that's some,

                            real milking. 

[Callum123456789]

All this talk of milking....I know snowdog is viewing this with anticipation lol.

 

[Oros]

Apologies for butting in. I remember seeing it previously, but what is the current plan for A21 release? I think I remember seeing that it wasn't going to be this weekend, is that correct?

[Riamus]

18 minutes ago, Oros said:

Apologies for butting in. I remember seeing it previously, but what is the current plan for A21 release? I think I remember seeing that it wasn't going to be this weekend, is that correct?

Since they haven't said anything about Streamer Weekend starting, no, it won't be this weekend.  It looks like it'll be later.  Laz Man mentioned they were still dealing with bugs that they need to fix before they can release experimental.  Once they can get those taken care of, they should announce it.  No way to know how soon that'll be.

Edited May 28, 2023 by Riamus (see edit history)

[RipClaw]

53 minutes ago, Laz Man said:

No streamer weekend this week.  Things are being assessed week to week.  Hopefully will know more by Tuesday/Wednesday next week.

Call me pessimistic but I don't think it will happen next weekend either. Not because of bugs but because of the Diablo 4 release.

[Noctoras]

16 hours ago, x3eemguy said:

Well I have never seen so many cry babies before. The game is already gold. Enjoy all the updates you are getting. Alpha forever!

 

nooooo, I can't wait for gold, since after gold they can produce a DLC with content. I so miss new content as opposed to streamlining things and would happily pay for a DLC with more building stuff, more weapons, more zombies and such! 

[meilodasreh]

1 hour ago, RipClaw said:

Call me pessimistic but I don't think it will happen next weekend either. Not because of bugs but because of the Diablo 4 release.

 

[pottervogel]

51 minutes ago, Noctoras said:

 

nooooo, I can't wait for gold, since after gold they can produce a DLC with content. I so miss new content as opposed to streamlining things and would happily pay for a DLC with more building stuff, more weapons, more zombies and such! 

You may give the dlcs called mods a chance. ^^

[Noctoras]

28 minutes ago, pottervogel said:

You may give the dlcs called mods a chance. ^^

 

I always prefer a gerat vanilla experience. makes it easier to connect with others and everyone's talking about the same game. Mods are great, for sure, but "official mods" like DLCs are the icing on the cake for me. 

[pApA^LeGBa]

@Riamus I would agree with you on other games selling a bunch after going gold. But we do have at least 10 years of early access when this game goes gold. (We can assume that this won´t happen before November) Raft, The Forest, ARK, those games surely got a big push in sales after going gold. But here i actually doubt it due to the long phase of early access.

 

Most people either already got it and played it or bought it on sale and wait for release to play it.

 

Speaking of 10 years, i can already see the S-storm on the steam forums in November when it hits the 10 years. That´s gonna be fun..

 

 

[mstdv inc]

13 hours ago, Norman Reedus said:

hi,could we forget the tedious updates of A21 and focus on another interesting thing?I mean the darkness should be the real darkness. Don't leave an option which allows players to adjust their brightness. That is definitely a failure for a horror game. Leave a variety of lighting tools and tell players to take them up when night falls. As for night, we need a real night, when sometimes we can see moonlight and feel good, but mostly players are surrounded by frightening darkness, hawling winds and fringing rains.This is doom day, not game day. Isn't it the very thing Fun Pimp should update.? Everyone is working hard on how to improve the structure or framework to ensure a safe landing for a space shuttle, but why not add a parachute to its tail?

I'm not sure if these changes will ever be added to the main game, but you can get what you want with two modifications.
Here is the topic on the forum:

Here is the name of the modifications you need:

This is how dark nights with a mod look like:
 

Spoiler

 

 

Edited May 28, 2023 by mstdv inc (see edit history)

[Norman Reedus]

1 hour ago, mstdv inc said:

I'm not sure if these changes will ever be added to the main game, but you can get what you want with two modifications.
Here is the topic on the forum:

Here is the name of the modifications you need:

This is how dark nights with a mod look like:
 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

Many thanks for your tips. I really love these modifications of this kind. Yeah, that is just doom day I'm expecting.

[Havesomehats]

I just can't wait for the update to finally drop. I know you devs are working hard so just keep keeping on.  I got almost 700 hours on this game so I've gotten more than my moneys worth lol. Nothing seem to hit that crafting/looting/surviving itch quite like 7DTD. 

[Cr0wst0rm]

On 5/28/2023 at 3:02 AM, Roland said:

 

Remaining in early access and spending money for ongoing development and hiring specialized talent is not milking. You may not be able to see all the labor-intensive work that has been done on this game over the past 18 months but I can assure you that the amount of development put into this game has been epic. You want extra content because you're bored of the current content and so are dismissive of the type of work that has been done but that doesn't change the fact that TFP has been busy.

 

Nobody on the 7 Days to Die team is ignoring this game to work on some future project. They have an entirely different team working on their next project and nothing that team does steals any talent or resources or time from this game. There really is no more to say about non-7 Days to Die projects though since that is off-topic for this thread. The 7 Days to Die team is 100% focused on getting this game finished which is why they are not spending time doing extra content that expands the base game even though there are those that only want those kinds of updates.

 

The change to vehicle damage was not simply increasing vehicle damage. It was balancing vehicle damage with environmental damage and damage to zombies. It was adding graphical indicators of the damage that vehicles are taking and when that damage is getting close to complete vehicle failure. It was also adding graphical indicators to zombies for their damage from vehicles. It also included changes to the Grease Monkey perk and the balance of how much damage repair kits fix. It also involved play testing to dial in the right amount of damage and fixing to make the feature balanced.  It was a bit more than one line of code.

Ok, particle effects +- 5 lines of code, give or take.

All of these features are natively supported by unity engine, it's not like they have to access PhysX core in C++ and bind to event which triggers on hit, they can just override the function inside unity and BAM it is working.

Balancing pass is something that can be done post feature pass, in my company we do it this way because it speeds up development iterations for us.
(If you balance a feature, rework it, and rebalance it again, you can understand that the first balancing iteration was pointless)

On 5/27/2023 at 2:38 PM, pApA^LeGBa said:

@Cr0wst0rm Please explain how they milk it? I didn´t look it up, but i don´t think the sales are still high enough to justify that. Everyone who is interested already bought it and the few that haven´t are those who simply don´t touch early access titles.

 

Sales after release will bring in a bit of money, not much in my opinion though, but right now i don´t think they can earn a lot of money from sales.

slowing development iteration intentionaly.

EDIT: It feels like nothing has been done other than the landscape, water physics, optimization of word destruction (async collision cooking?), some balances etc. Maybe it's the later features that are expected to be released the later alpha (overlap). Still I think more could be done. Maybe coders were blocked with the new art coming in the game (support)? Either way I think over a year there could be many other features done, I managed to code a vehicle Physics system with suspension, dynamic damage (almost wreckfest like) and animated interiors just in 1 year (+ racing events + vehicle customization support + saving system etc etc (Unreal Engine, pure C++)). Considering the team has like +- 3 code guys? I think there could be just a tiny bit more, considering it was a YEAR.

Edited May 29, 2023 by Cr0wst0rm (see edit history)

[mstdv inc]

12 minutes ago, Cr0wst0rm said:

Ok, particle effects +- 5 lines of code, give or take.

All of these features are natively supported by unity engine, it's not like they have to access PhysX core in C++ and bind to event which triggers on hit, they can just override the function inside unity and BAM it is working.

Balancing pass is something that can be done post feature pass, in my company we do it this way because it speeds up development iterations for us.
(If you balance a feature, rework it, and rebalance it again, you can understand that the first balancing iteration was pointless)

slowing development iteration intentionaly.

Perhaps TFP should hire you for 1 month and give you a task that you will have to complete within the specified time frame. What do you say if you don't have enough time? You will name objective reasons. In response, you will be informed that you deliberately slowed down the task.

[Cr0wst0rm]

1 minute ago, mstdv inc said:

Perhaps TFP should hire you for 1 month and give you a task that you will have to complete within the specified time frame. What do you say if you don't have enough time? You will name objective reasons. In response, you will be informed that you deliberately slowed down the task.

That will not happen, they dont want to + I am not from US so it is not worth for them to even consider that + I would say that I am more occupied with my current job at the same time.

[YourMirror]

5 hours ago, Cr0wst0rm said:

Ok, particle effects +- 5 lines of code, give or take.

All of these features are natively supported by unity engine, it's not like they have to access PhysX core in C++ and bind to event which triggers on hit, they can just override the function inside unity and BAM it is working.

Balancing pass is something that can be done post feature pass, in my company we do it this way because it speeds up development iterations for us.
(If you balance a feature, rework it, and rebalance it again, you can understand that the first balancing iteration was pointless)

slowing development iteration intentionaly.

EDIT: It feels like nothing has been done other than the landscape, water physics, optimization of word destruction (async collision cooking?), some balances etc. Maybe it's the later features that are expected to be released the later alpha (overlap). Still I think more could be done. Maybe coders were blocked with the new art coming in the game (support)? Either way I think over a year there could be many other features done, I managed to code a vehicle Physics system with suspension, dynamic damage (almost wreckfest like) and animated interiors just in 1 year (+ racing events + vehicle customization support + saving system etc etc (Unreal Engine, pure C++)). Considering the team has like +- 3 code guys? I think there could be just a tiny bit more, considering it way a YEAR.

You managed nothing. You only write down narcistic fantasies. Nobody wants to hear them, so just stop.

[Roland]

5 hours ago, Cr0wst0rm said:

Ok, particle effects +- 5 lines of code, give or take.

Now you’re just trolling especially given that your premise is that faatal spent a year and a half doing this one thing. That is a false premise  to begin with. I think you’re trying to set yourself up as some kind of an expert so you can gaslight and troll the community. But it is clear that your perspective is quite off from reality. For example, you assumed that the same people working on 7 Days were splitting their time to work on another project. Also, your perception of the work done in the game is surprisingly superficial and surface level only. Again, you assume that since you aren’t from the USA it would be too difficult to hire you when the team has several people from a variety of countries and native languages already
 

It all cast doubt in my mind that you actually know what you’re talking about. 

[Cr0wst0rm]

9 minutes ago, Roland said:

Now you’re just trolling especially given that your premise is that faatal spent a year and a half doing this one thing. That is a false premise  to begin with. I think you’re trying to set yourself up as some kind of an expert so you can gaslight and troll the community. But it is clear that your perspective is quite off from reality. For example, you assumed that the same people working on 7 Days were splitting their time to work on another project. Also, your perception of the work done in the game is surprisingly superficial and surface level only. Again, you assume that since you aren’t from the USA it would be too difficult to hire you when the team has several people from a variety of countries and native languages already
 

It all cast doubt in my mind that you actually know what you’re talking about. 

I very well know what I am talking about.
 

 

 

Now that we have estabilished the fact that I DO indeed know what I am talking about, lets talk about why I mention certain things...

To the trolling regards, I dont really see any kind of constructive criticism as a trolling. It is rather supposed to clearly express that I CARE about the game. If I say something, which is not nice, it is not because I would hate the game, but rather would like to see it improve on that.

If you do not like me commenting on the things I DO NOT like, you are free to ban me from these forums. That won't change the fact, that there are some things I will not like, and eventually mention them one day. I did not join the forum to be a fanatic follower, I was more interested in the development cycle of the game and to see some behind the scenes, but for this alpha, I am rather dissapointed. If people dislike that, it is just their opinion, just as is mine.
 

[YourMirror]

8 minutes ago, Cr0wst0rm said:

I very well know what I am talking about.
 

 

 

Now that we have estabilished the fact that I DO indeed know what I am talking about, lets talk about why I mention certain things...

To the trolling regards, I dont really see any kind of constructive criticism as a trolling. It is rather supposed to clearly express that I CARE about the game. If I say something, which is not nice, it is not because I would hate the game, but rather would like to see it improve on that.

If you do not like me commenting on the things I DO NOT like, you are free to ban me from these forums. That won't change the fact, that there are some things I will not like, and eventually mention them one day. I did not join the forum to be a fanatic follower, I was more interested in the development cycle of the game and to see some behind the scenes, but for this alpha, I am rather dissapointed. If people dislike that, it is just their opinion, just as is mine.
 

Nothing established here. Some random youtube vids dont say 1) you did this 2) all by yourself 3) within a year. 4) in existing code from another developer from years ago

 

And you dont give a @%$# about the game. That we have established. You only take @%$#s on what has been done while you have NO clue what has been done. All you do is make assumptions about the work that has been done and then come with narcistic fantasies that you would have done better and faster. Just stop man. Nobody believes you.