Alpha 21 Discussion Overflow

[Deadfordays]

2 hours ago, BFT2020 said:

One wonders if people already make up an opinion on something based on a youtuber they follow, then go into that area and only grasp the things that reinforce that opinion while ignoring anything that counters that opinion.....

 

🤔

 

That's my deep thought for the week

Yup... "Confirmation bias is the tendency to search for, interpret, favor, and recall information in a way that confirms or supports one's prior beliefs or values." It's becoming more and more prevalent these days too...

[Roland]

I think it is time to move on from this topic. Please.

[Kiwi69]

5 hours ago, Guppys Fur said:

 

Your Post made me re-activate my Account that was sleeping about 2 years. You talk about arrogance, while you think bought copies entitle you to some sort of special treatment. Take a step back and choose your words more careful. All i read is a big whiny outburst of dissapointed feelings.

 

 

That being said i agree with the essence of your Post. After a decade of broken Promises TFP still didnt learn and spews out Releasedates they dont hold. But that is ok. It happens in Software Development.

 

What is not ok, is the lack of communication and behaviour towards the Fanbase. While Roland is not "Supermoderator" any more, he still has a representive Role but doesnt act accordingly.

 

No Entry in that Dev Diary, not on the Streamer Weekend-Thread that the Release now most likely is June and people who wonder why/how get treated poorly.

As it was stated the other day, if the Release would be the 22th, we would know by now.

 

The only good/fair approach in communication was made by Laz with the Silver Lining of possible more POIs that might be in the next Update. Thank you Laz.

But after one of the bosses of TFP said "Mid-May" the least the community deserves is an official Update. You know, something like an Entry by a Dev in the Dev-Diary.

 

 

Enough negative things. While i skipped A20 entirly since im more and more ....unhappy about certain things and Devs, im looking forward to A21. Love the new Blocks, new Prefabs (enjoyed Laz´s Part in the Stream alot) and the improved graphics and i think it will be the "roundest" Alpha so far.

 

There was Talks about a Playtest Dev-Stream, why was this cancelled? Can we still get one please?

 

I might not be particularly clear about some of the small details you’re talking about, but I think I should understand what you mean. My friend, you’re very on point.

 

So, I actually lived in China for a while and played some games run by local operators there, like World of Warcraft on the Chinese server. Even with a huge company like that, I still remember how the official staff treated players on their forums. I mean, they treated players like crap and even deleted posts so people couldn’t speak up. You know, it felt really bad and I don’t wanna go through that again. It’s like a thing in China, which is pretty ironic.

 

So I guess by that low standard, maybe things are a little better here? It’s kinda frustrating…

5 hours ago, beerfly said:

Welcome to the forums Kiwi  

 

It is much better than you think at first sight. 

 

Thank you, my friend. I really hope so too, believe me. For fans of 7 Days to Die, it should be that way, right?

[bdubyah]

See, the problem is you guys are mad at TFP for something a single person said. Anyone who has followed the game for a while knows Rick is usually a bit overly optimistic about dates. You can also usually see Prime's facial reactions to Rick giving out dates. Don't hate on the entirety of TFP because one of the owners had hopes of it making it out in May.

 

And when they feel they have a date in mind, I'm sure they'll let us know. But I'd bet they don't right now, so no posts. Expecting them to come give you a date is entitlement, which is ironic considering the posts above. Just chill out and relax. It'll be here soon. 

[Roland]

29 minutes ago, Kiwi69 said:

So, I actually lived in China for a while and played some games run by local operators there, like World of Warcraft on the Chinese server. Even with a huge company like that, I still remember how the official staff treated players on their forums. I mean, they treated players like crap and even deleted posts so people couldn’t speak up. You know, it felt really bad and I don’t wanna go through that again. It’s like a thing in China, which is pretty ironic.

 

So I guess by that low standard, maybe things are a little better here? It’s kinda frustrating…

 

This is a pretty insulting post right here by someone who is claiming to want civil discourse. In fact, the entire library of your posts so far are antagonistic. Why not start with a new community by being friendly and asking questions instead of starting on the attack and making accusations? Let me guess: Because you're the customer? 

 

heheh...we'll see where this leads...

[Kiwi69]

5 hours ago, Benton said:

 

Hi,

i'm also someone who is lurking, browsing and reading posts and this, because english is not my main language.

It's harder for me to write something done as reading. I think thats a problem for most people, who are not so familiar with a language.

 

However, i try to answer from my personal perspective about your post with "arrogance and playfulness".

Imagine two scenarios ...

 

A person responses to the delay of A21 like this: "Ah, dammit, i was hoping for the earlier release of A21. But i'm sure there is a reason"

Do you think  the answer from Roland would be the same? I do not.

 

However, related to the OT,

Best of luck for fixing all bugs and for all a awesome A21 if it gets released

 

Edit: Fixed Typos ...

 

Hey there, thanks for your reply. English isn’t my first language either, haha, but I think I understand what you’re trying to say, my friend.

 

I guess you’re saying “Oh, it was him who started it” (which is me) is probably about my communication skills being the issue. But after all these years of seeing so many posts, streams, and some of the official attitudes, it’s hard for me to maintain a good attitude. Like I said before, I only came to post when I felt like I couldn’t take it anymore. My apologies.

 

Back to the game, a delay? Not a big deal. Delay all the time? Alright, understandable. After all, the game isn’t that expensive and gets free updates for so many years. But a delay plus that kind of attitude? Come on, I wouldn’t even talk like that to someone I’ve never met before. I don’t want to hurt anyone’s feelings, including Roland’s, but isn’t the way the officials talk sometimes a bit too “casual”? Like you said, from my perspective, if he had been a little more polite to other players at the time, maybe I wouldn’t have been unhappy? Some people might think I’m being nosy, but that’s just me. If I see something that’s not fair, I have to express it. That’s legal, right?

[Kiwi69]

26 minutes ago, Roland said:

 

This is a pretty insulting post right here by someone who is claiming to want civil discourse. In fact, the entire library of your posts so far are antagonistic. Why not start with a new community by being friendly and asking questions instead of starting on the attack and making accusations? Let me guess: Because you're the customer? 

 

heheh...we'll see where this leads...

 

What will it lead to? Is that a threat? 

 

Are you role-playing or something?
 

You think that’s a pretty insulting post, but my question is “Are you doing any better than that?”

 

Did you guys see that?  Can you freaking believe that? So passive-aggressive all the time. OMG, please save me. 

Edited May 18, 2023 by Kiwi69 (see edit history)

[Roland]

38 minutes ago, Kiwi69 said:

What will it lead to? Is that a threat? 

 

No. Why would you take it that way? I was simply wondering whether you would choose to remain and post or go back to lurking given your attitude.

 

38 minutes ago, Kiwi69 said:

Are you role-playing or something?

 

What does this even mean?

 

38 minutes ago, Kiwi69 said:

You think that’s a pretty insulting post, but my question is “Are you doing any better than that?”

 

Uh....yeah. That's why it was such an insulting comparison. And I can say it without highlighting my text.

 

38 minutes ago, Kiwi69 said:

Did you guys see that?  Can you freaking believe that? So passive-aggressive all the time. OMG, please save me

 

What guys are you even talking to and what is it you think you need saving from?

 

Please, just post normal opinions about the game and stop whatever this is that you are doing.

 

OR ELSE!    (kidding!)

 

 

 

 

Edited May 18, 2023 by Roland (see edit history)

[Roland]

1 hour ago, Kiwi69 said:

but isn’t the way the officials talk sometimes a bit too “casual”?

 

We don't have a caste system in the United States. Sorry.

 

Many people feel perfectly comfortable with officials acting and talking casually. I feel perfectly comfortable being an official who is glib, friendly, jokey, and at times sarcastic. If you don't like it then don't engage with me. As I stated before, until now, I have never spoken to you directly and really won't feel like I'm missing out if we never speak to each other again in the future if that suits you. Every post you have made so far has been fixated on me-- someone you've never directly interacted with before. If you don't want me to be "casual" with you then don't initiate conversation with me and just let others decide for themselves whether my style of interaction is something they are okay with. 

 

1 hour ago, Kiwi69 said:

Like you said, from my perspective, if he had been a little more polite to other players at the time, maybe I wouldn’t have been unhappy?

 

When was I even impolite to someone? I'm at a loss here. And, again, it wasn't even to you? You got angry because of how I posted to someone else and not even THAT person has complained or spoken up for themselves? How can I even begin to possibly post in a way to keep you happy if you are going to not only feel insulted by imagined personal attacks against yourself but also vicariously for every one else on the forum.....? I know some people are easily offended but you have found a new level, my friend.

 

1 hour ago, Kiwi69 said:

Some people might think I’m being nosy, but that’s just me. If I see something that’s not fair, I have to express it. That’s legal, right?

 

So you just gotta be you but everyone else has to be the way you want them to be. Well....I just gotta be me.

 

 

Edited May 18, 2023 by Roland (see edit history)

[Morloc]

 

Once the hostilities cease, I predict you two will be very close...

 

 

 

 

-Arch Necromancer Morloc 💀

[Riamus]

3 hours ago, Kiwi69 said:

 

Hey there, thanks for your reply. English isn’t my first language either, haha, but I think I understand what you’re trying to say, my friend.

 

I guess you’re saying “Oh, it was him who started it” (which is me) is probably about my communication skills being the issue. But after all these years of seeing so many posts, streams, and some of the official attitudes, it’s hard for me to maintain a good attitude. Like I said before, I only came to post when I felt like I couldn’t take it anymore. My apologies.

 

Back to the game, a delay? Not a big deal. Delay all the time? Alright, understandable. After all, the game isn’t that expensive and gets free updates for so many years. But a delay plus that kind of attitude? Come on, I wouldn’t even talk like that to someone I’ve never met before. I don’t want to hurt anyone’s feelings, including Roland’s, but isn’t the way the officials talk sometimes a bit too “casual”? Like you said, from my perspective, if he had been a little more polite to other players at the time, maybe I wouldn’t have been unhappy? Some people might think I’m being nosy, but that’s just me. If I see something that’s not fair, I have to express it. That’s legal, right?

I'm not sure if you're from another country or not but in the US, it is not at all unusual for "officials" to be "casual" when talking with their customers.  Especially in a gaming forum.  That is hardly uncommon, though isn't always the case.  As I said, I found it refreshing when I saw that the moderators and devs were like they are and didn't act like robots.  As Roland pointed out, these "other players" you mentioned don't seem to have responded to him with complaints about how he talked to them, so why are you upset if they aren't?  Why not stick to you and let others take care of themselves?  If they aren't offended, then you really don't have any right to be offended for them.  And as long as your posts are all attacks on the people here, you are certainly not going to get friendly replies.  And what exactly is not "fair"?  Is responding to someone in a "casual" way not fair?  How so?  I'd be interested in seeing what reasoning you can come up with for that.

 

3 hours ago, Kiwi69 said:

 

What will it lead to? Is that a threat? 

 

Are you role-playing or something?
 

You think that’s a pretty insulting post, but my question is “Are you doing any better than that?”

 

Did you guys see that?  Can you freaking believe that? So passive-aggressive all the time. OMG, please save me. 

Maybe it's a language barrier as you said English isn't your first language but it was pretty clear that Roland was not issuing any kind of threat and was saying that with a roll of the eyes at the way you've been posting.  And quite honestly, your post is far more insulting than his.  Not to mention your post was racist.  You essentially stated that Chinese are bad and that TFP and/or Roland is just as bad as they are.  That's racism.  It is one thing to comment on how a country does things and what you think about it but as soon as you start stating that they are "low" and that others are just as "low" you are now being racist.  That is not even remotely acceptable.

[Kiwi69]

2 hours ago, Roland said:

 

We don't have a caste system in the United States. Sorry.

 

Many people feel perfectly comfortable with officials acting and talking casually. I feel perfectly comfortable being an official who is glib, friendly, jokey, and at times sarcastic. If you don't like it then don't engage with me. As I stated before, until now, I have never spoken to you directly and really won't feel like I'm missing out if we never speak to each other again in the future if that suits you. Every post you have made so far has been fixated on me-- someone you've never directly interacted with before. If you don't want me to be "casual" with you then don't initiate conversation with me and just let others decide for themselves whether my style of interaction is something they are okay with. 

 

 

When was I even impolite to someone? I'm at a loss here. And, again, it wasn't even to you? You got angry because of how I posted to someone else and not even THAT person has complained or spoken up for themselves? How can I even begin to possibly post in a way to keep you happy if you are going to not only feel insulted by imagined personal attacks against yourself but also vicariously for every one else on the forum.....? I know some people are easily offended but you have found a new level, my friend.

 

 

So you just gotta be you but everyone else has to be the way you want them to be. Well....I just gotta be me.

 

 

 

Dear Mr. Roland, forgive my ignorance, may I know what’s your position/job title at TFP? And more specifically, what are your responsibilities on this forum? I’d love to hear this information if you’re willing to share it with us. I think it might clear up some misunderstandings, maybe? worth a try, right?

[Old Crow]

3 hours ago, Roland said:

 

We don't have a caste system in the United States. Sorry.

 

 

I mean, we DO - the rich and the poor. But that's going into more political territory. XD

[Aldranon]

3 hours ago, zztong said:

 

I concur that an airburst makes the most sense when dealing with zombies. It does the most damage to the target and scatters the least radiation. Folks want a radioactive wasteland and envision a crater as part of the genre. A ground detonation makes a crater and scatters much more radiation. But I'm talking ICBM-sized munitions and payloads, and I'm not sure it is fair to assume you are.

 

The way I rationalize 7D2D is (1) a reasoned military response, (2) small craters, and (3) the end effect being a radioactive wasteland is by having the military use more tactically scaled munitions and somehow affecting a Navezgane equivalent to the Palo Verde Generating Station creating a Chernobyl-like environment.

 

The only scenario where the US military would use a surface or sub-surface detonation would be to destroy a strategically important bunker (IE Iran's underground nuclear sites).

 

For possible 7D2D lore (and craters), Red Mesa POI's were creating zombies and the US President authorized sub surface strikes on all the Red Mesa sites (probably would use the new B61-12 bombs as bunker busting is what they would do well).  They obviously missed one and that was all it took.

 

[Riamus]

1 hour ago, Adun0608 said:

Word play is never the best way to solve a problem, it's the worst. Supporting a person should make him aware of what he did wrong instead of forcing a reasonable explanation for the mistake.

I recently played VRising again and I never went to their community forums and I follow them far less than TPF, but they gave me a clear release date and released the game on time. So not all gaming companies are like you say

"Word play" as you call it was me correcting your false statement.  And to correct another error, I never stated that gaming companies do not give release dates or release on that date.  I stated they are not obligated to do so.  They certainly can if they wish.  But they do not have to.  Correcting a mistake isn't word play.  However, twisting words to say something that was not said is word play.

 

And very often when they do, they get flak for being wrong as is the case here when they said they were shooting for mid-May.  The fact that they are getting flak for it is a good reason not to give an updated release date, wouldn't you think?  No point if people will just complain about it anyhow.

[Jost Amman]

8 hours ago, Kiwi69 said:

Did you guys see that?  Can you freaking believe that? So passive-aggressive all the time. OMG, please save me. 

I think it's evident there is a "culture barrier" when you read Roland's posts.

It will take some time, I think, to really understand the subtlety of irony and banter in English.

[Aldranon]

With release dates for a software companies, they can normally be met IF (and only if) they are willing to:

1) Roll back to an earlier release candidate that didn't have the error(s) 

2) Notify users of the temporary loss of functionality and they can use it with a completed package being released ASAP.

 

-OR-

 

1) Release the current version with a notice with the bug(s) that might reduce functionality of the program.

 

But as TFP are not in any trouble of litigation they can do the third option, which is work the problem(s) they feel need to me done, then release it.

[Roland]

5 hours ago, Kiwi69 said:

 

Dear Mr. Roland, forgive my ignorance, may I know what’s your position/job title at TFP? And more specifically, what are your responsibilities on this forum? I’d love to hear this information if you’re willing to share it with us. I think it might clear up some misunderstandings, maybe? worth a try, right?

 

I am a volunteer moderator of this forum. I have access to the TFP team and know what TFP is working on but am not employed by TFP. I am one of a team of individuals who enforce forum rules of conduct and it is my job to warn people who are being unruly and if they ignore those warnings to ban them from the forum. Bans are always initiated by council and not by individual moderators.

 

I'm glad you have decided to participate fully in the forums rather than just lurk and I hope you can have a positive experience here. Happy to start over. Be my Chekov!

[beerfly]

6 hours ago, Kiwi69 said:

 

Dear Mr. Roland, forgive my ignorance, may I know what’s your position/job title at TFP? And more specifically, what are your responsibilities on this forum? I’d love to hear this information if you’re willing to share it with us. I think it might clear up some misunderstandings, maybe? worth a try, right?

If you want to go to the toilet, rise a hand and ask him politely. With the word "sir" after that

 

*hiding under the bed*

Edited May 19, 2023 by beerfly
He is a legend ;) (see edit history)

[Jost Amman]

49 minutes ago, beerfly said:

If you want to go to the toilet, rise a hand and ask him politely. With the word "sir" after that

 

*hiding under the bed*

You're confusing him even more, you smart-ass! 

[Adun0608]

3 hours ago, Riamus said:

"Word play" as you call it was me correcting your false statement.  And to correct another error, I never stated that gaming companies do not give release dates or release on that date.  I stated they are not obligated to do so.  They certainly can if they wish.  But they do not have to.  Correcting a mistake isn't word play.  However, twisting words to say something that was not said is word play.

 

And very often when they do, they get flak for being wrong as is the case here when they said they were shooting for mid-May.  The fact that they are getting flak for it is a good reason not to give an updated release date, wouldn't you think?  No point if people will just complain about it anyhow.

You can be a good lawyer🙂

Anyway, seeing Laz Man's reply at least made the wait less anxious. Things are going in a better direction

[beerfly]

Nah, the fact that he is already here among us, makes him part of the way we think and there is no escape

 

 

[Zombiepoptard]

11 hours ago, Roland said:

 

Or maybe a winner...

 

It is too late for this thread. Maybe the next one...

This is why Rick should zip it. If they say 3 weeks then make it 2 months. It's a whole trend and if your new welcome to the boat. The leads give overly optimistic release windows that have no chance of happening.

[Riamus]

2 hours ago, HeLLKnight said:

 

It depends. At 4k 165hz like my monitor, almost all PCs are more gpu bound in almost all games, even in cpu heavy games like 7d2d. But yes, the bad named "DLSS3" frame generation would do wonders to 7d2d, maybe FSR FG will be out this year...

 

This new implementation looks fairly easy and quality wise far better than FSR1, so I will pray to be included with A21.1 🙏

I wouldn't try to hope for any part of A21 for that.  If they want to do it, then maybe A22.  But they aren't likely to add something completely new to A21 after it is in experimental.  At that point, it is basically feature-locked and anything new will wait until A22.  That doesn't include additional art or POI or similar things, of course.  Those may be "new" but they aren't new features and so can be added at any point without any real risk of bugs.

[Melange]

14 hours ago, Jost Amman said:

I think it's evident there is a "culture barrier" when you read Roland's posts.

It will take some time, I think, to really understand the subtlety of irony and banter in English.

Ah, indeed. And Roland uses American English to be exact. And don't forget about the hints of sarcasm as well. Some cultures just don't get sarcasm, even if the person has a good grasp of the language. My wife is a perfect example...but that doesn't stop me from using sarcasm though 😁