Why take out types of Zombies when all they did was add to the game?

[AtomicUs5000]

I love that they removed those zombies because they never fit in anywhere.

 

However, I would still love some more variation. They once said while the HD models were being made that they were going to add in a bunch of low-level, highly decomposed zombies with dirty, shabby clothing so that you couldn't really tell them apart, giving the impression of more zombie types than there really are. I was surprised to see that the new HD models have such bright colors, kinda doing the opposite. 

 

I love the crawling zombie, especially compared to previous versions, but I feel like that model pushes back into the not matching with everything else territory. It is practically a skeleton and no other zombie is even close to as decomposed as that one. We have a couple of these severely mutated zombies, but there is no in between.  It comes off as odd.

 

I guess what I am saying is that this transition to the newer zombies succeeded in generally looking better, but failed in any attempt to remove that clone duplication feeling and failed to make the designs fit well together and with the environment. I think that maybe they got excited with the new designs and graphics and forgot about what they were trying to do. I can't complain because it was an overall improvement, but at the same time, I still feel a little disappointed in the end.

Edited January 14, 2022 by AtomicUs5000 (see edit history)

[Roland]

3 hours ago, pApA^LeGBa said:

It´s the same with bandits and zombie AI. For a long time we were told the zombies behave way too intelligent because the devs use them as test objects for the bandit AI. Now it turned out that wasn´t the case at all.

Thats because once faatal started looking at it in preparation to actually begin he decided he didn’t want the bandits to just be smarter zombies. He wanted them to have their own AI tasks and pathing. 
 

What does it matter when they have dumbed down the zombies from what they started in A17 anyway?  They still had to start from a position of perfect knowledge whether their pathing was going to end up being the bandit pathing or not. 
 

3 hours ago, pApA^LeGBa said:

Same with the slider for spawn rate. Got told it was removed for balancing issues and that it will return after that it´s done. Now it´s a "maybe it will return".

Conditions change. The game had a completely different performance footprint back then. Both statements are true because they were not made within days of each other. Personally, I think the slider will still come back. 
 

Who hurt you so badly that you see everything as lies and deceit? Sometimes things change. 

[pApA^LeGBa]

Now where did i say lies or deceit? Don´t put words in my mouth. I just said it´s annoying af. You do realize that people take the informations they got and acutally use it to shut up trolls on the steam forums? Saw that a alredey. Guy got called a liar because he trusted info he got from a moderator.

 

(Not me though, i wouldn´t care tbh, don´t give a F what the internet thinks of me)

Edited January 14, 2022 by pApA^LeGBa (see edit history)

[Matt115]

5 hours ago, pApA^LeGBa said:

 

Different topics wasn´t meant as different threads of why zombies where removed.

 

It´s the same with bandits and zombie AI. For a long time we were told the zombies behave way too intelligent because the devs use them as test objects for the bandit AI. Now it turned out that wasn´t the case at all.

 

It´s annoying af at this point tbh.

 

Same with the slider for spawn rate. Got told it was removed for balancing issues and that it will return after that it´s done. Now it´s a "maybe it will return".

Well that's true - they are too smart

4 hours ago, AtomicUs5000 said:

I love that they removed those zombies because they never fit in anywhere.

 

However, I would still love some more variation. They once said while the HD models were being made that they were going to add in a bunch of low-level, highly decomposed zombies with dirty, shabby clothing so that you couldn't really tell them apart, giving the impression of more zombie types than there really are. I was surprised to see that the new HD models have such bright colors, kinda doing the opposite. 

 

I love the crawling zombie, especially compared to previous versions, but I feel like that model pushes back into the not matching with everything else territory. It is practically a skeleton and no other zombie is even close to as decomposed as that one. We have a couple of these severely mutated zombies, but there is no in between.  It comes off as odd.

 

I guess what I am saying is that this transition to the newer zombies succeeded in generally looking better, but failed in any attempt to remove that clone duplication feeling and failed to make the designs fit well together and with the environment. I think that maybe they got excited with the new designs and graphics and forgot about what they were trying to do. I can't complain because it was an overall improvement, but at the same time, I still feel a little disappointed in the end.

New models looks too much  like rage 2 that game with serious setting. 😕

[AtomicUs5000]

3 hours ago, Matt115 said:

New models looks too much  like rage 2 that game with serious setting. 😕

 
I don't get Rage 2 vibes at all. I imagine that in the near future the players, traders, and bandits might resemble Rage 2 characters, but I'm not seeing that with the zombies.

[Roland]

7 hours ago, pApA^LeGBa said:

Now where did i say lies or deceit? Don´t put words in my mouth. I just said it´s annoying af. You do realize that people take the informations they got and acutally use it to shut up trolls on the steam forums? Saw that a alredey. Guy got called a liar because he trusted info he got from a moderator.

 

(Not me though, i wouldn´t care tbh, don´t give a F what the internet thinks of me)

Apologies. It was JCrook that brought up lies and I confused the two of you. As for winning debates on Steam, it's impossible because trolls don't care about the truth or logic. They just want to burn the world. Also, things sometimes really do change and what was planned at one point becomes obsolete. If that gives trolls ammunition to headshot fanboys well...maybe those fanboys should just report those trolls instead of getting into it with them.

 

I also apologize for the "Who hurt you" snark.

[Stradivar]

Zombies are free to amble any distance. 

 

They are mindless. Like insects. 

 

Any lost soul could and should be encountered at any location. 

[PoppaSmirk]

11 hours ago, AtomicUs5000 said:

I love that they removed those zombies because they never fit in anywhere.

 

However, I would still love some more variation. They once said while the HD models were being made that they were going to add in a bunch of low-level, highly decomposed zombies with dirty, shabby clothing so that you couldn't really tell them apart, giving the impression of more zombie types than there really are. I was surprised to see that the new HD models have such bright colors, kinda doing the opposite. 

 

 

 

So,  I am not a coder or a 3D graphics designer by any means,  My coding knowledge  went toward the "obsolete" pile with DHTML.  But I have often wondered,  How much of a coding issue it would be,  to have a base model zombie,  Lets say  The Fat Cop.  Right now He looks fairly "spiffy'  all awesome in his nice HD skin.  But what if a somewhat random template could be applied over that base,  so that each 'Fat Cop' that spawns gets an outer layer of grime or gore added.  Since the base Model would be the same, and the "grime templates" sort of like a new layer to just drape over the base Model,  I've often wondered if that would be a much more efficient way to add variety.  Then the Players Might see..."Fat Cop with dirty face",  then Fat Cop with the big jelly stain on the front of his uniform,  or 'Fat Cop with the blood splatters"

 

These are just things that cross My mind.

[AtomicUs5000]

1 hour ago, PoppaSmirk said:

But what if a somewhat random template could be applied over that base,  so that each 'Fat Cop' that spawns gets an outer layer of grime or gore added.  Since the base Model would be the same, and the "grime templates" sort of like a new layer to just drape over the base Model,  I've often wondered if that would be a much more efficient way to add variety.  Then the Players Might see..."Fat Cop with dirty face",  then Fat Cop with the big jelly stain on the front of his uniform,  or 'Fat Cop with the blood splatters"

 

These are just things that cross My mind.

 
I am a coder, but not for graphics and games, so I could be wrong here. I'm going to say that it would look really bad. The textures are uv-mapped or something similar to give the impression of high 3D detail on lower poly models to optimize performance while achieving excellent graphics. Layering some flat texture on top of that would still conform to the low-poly model and create some strange visuals like dirt that floats over the skin.

 

I think they would need something internally that bakes textures during runtime to really attempt something like that. It would be more easily done on models that weren't detailed with clothing and other things. I'm pretty sure No Man's Sky does something like this each time someone encounters a new planet and the game needs to generate a set of random fauna... but those animals have little detail. So, I suppose then they would have to take things even a step further and have the clothing layered on as well. I don't see all of this happening.

 

Edited January 14, 2022 by AtomicUs5000 (see edit history)

[Matt115]

5 hours ago, AtomicUs5000 said:

 
I don't get Rage 2 vibes at all. I imagine that in the near future the players, traders, and bandits might resemble Rage 2 characters, but I'm not seeing that with the zombies.

Bright colours and a little bit comical ( one shoe only) - well so now models looks more "light" that old ones like frozen zombies ( i mean normal zombies looks to "cartoonish" special looks like more like horror game)

[Outlaw_187]

19 hours ago, AtomicUs5000 said:

...............However, I would still love some more variation. They once said while the HD models were being made that they were going to add in a bunch of low-level, highly decomposed zombies with dirty, shabby clothing so that you couldn't really tell them apart, giving the impression of more zombie types than there really are. I was surprised to see that the new HD models have such bright colors, kinda doing the opposite..........

^ totally want this!

 

I asked for this in a thread maybe a year ago or so. You imagine the new cities we have now littered with these types of zombies?! Would be a game changer for sure. Definitely add some tension.

On 1/12/2022 at 6:03 PM, Travis Shaw said:

Why was the Cowboy and Cheerleader and Football Player zombie's taking out  ?  Also why was the biker topless chick taken out all they did was add to the  game and small number of Zombies we have but instead they was taken out .   Also why is all the police  officer's fat .  My young brother works for the Sulpher Spring's Sheriff's Police Department in Texas and they are all tall and skinny or tall and muscular ......  

I agree 100%! Who's gives a flying F if the zombies don't "fit in" with certain POI's? More variation, the better, period. 

As Roland said, the reasons for removing zombies varies for whatever reasons, don't mesh with new HD zombies, no time to update old zombies, or the reason I stated above, etc.

 

Doesn't hurt the game at all, I'll still continue to waste countless hours of my life enjoying this game. We are just simply creatures of varying tastes. 

 

Oh yeah, I've also protested losing the topless stripper as well 😡

@%$# move Fun Pimps......@%$# move!! 😜

[Jason Tamosiunis]

23 hours ago, Outlaw_187 said:

                ^^^^^^^^^^^^ well put!

 

I just hope they realize the importance of variation & how many of us think this is pretty important. No doubt it's a lot of work doing these zombies & the work they've done is F'ing amazing. 

The more variation of zombies, the better!

true altho i do think sometimes TFP just give excuses i have seen modders over the last 2 alphas are making TFP look like rookies. Im not saying TFP isnt doing a great job they are but sometimes i wonder if maybe the boat should be rocked every now and then. I mean the modders are insane in what they do for example the romero mod sorcery mod apocalypse now winterween darkness falls undead legacy and age of oblivion to name a few Just my opinion OFC

Edited January 15, 2022 by Jason Tamosiunis (see edit history)

[Outlaw_187]

4 hours ago, Jason Tamosiunis said:

true altho i do think sometimes TFP just give excuses i have seen modders over the last 2 alphas are making TFP look like rookies. Im not saying TFP isnt doing a great job they are but sometimes i wonder if maybe the boat should be rocked every now and then. I mean the modders are insane in what they do for example the romero mod sorcery mod apocalypse now winterween darkness falls undead legacy and age of oblivion to name a few Just my opinion OFC

Agree completely. Those all have their own uniqueness & style to them. I personally like the mods that just add more zombies to the game, I think bdub & guppy do these very well & it doesn't impact performance at all. 

 

Now I'm not a fan of the flying sharks with Lazer beams attached to their frickin heads, or some of the mods that contain spiders or those worm looking crawling things but hey, they did good on them nonetheless. 

 

I just love the variety.....& the topless zombies 😁

 

I haven't downloaded these for A20 yet, not sure if they are even available. Still enjoying vanilla for the time being.

[meganoth]

5 hours ago, Jason Tamosiunis said:

true altho i do think sometimes TFP just give excuses i have seen modders over the last 2 alphas are making TFP look like rookies. Im not saying TFP isnt doing a great job they are but sometimes i wonder if maybe the boat should be rocked every now and then. I mean the modders are insane in what they do for example the romero mod sorcery mod apocalypse now winterween darkness falls undead legacy and age of oblivion to name a few Just my opinion OFC

 

This is comparing apples and oranges. While TFP adds stuff on all levels of the game, modders mostly work on the top level shiny stuff that has the highest impact but can't work without the lower level stuff. TFP is the car company building the car while the modders are the tuning shops.

 

For example the new RWG was surely a lot of low level programming and artistic work just to have a city with streets. What we will see is modders using those new RWG capabilities to add stuff like airports and massive mega-factories, flashy but optional stuff that TFP didn't even try because they might need more basic tier4 buildings for example.

 

On an artistic level you might be able to compare them, but this is subjective and unfair as modders have much more freedom, see the sorcery mod.

 

[BarryTGash]

12 hours ago, AtomicUs5000 said:

Layering some flat texture on top of that would still conform to the low-poly model and create some strange visuals like dirt that floats over the skin.

 

Depends. If you're blending a layer over the diffuse (colour) channel only then you'll still end up with the detail from the normal map (the map that adds appearance of greater detail than the base mesh provides by altering the way light reacts with the surface). Blending an appropriate layer over the specular and/or roughness maps could also be done but it all adds to gpu overhead both in vram usage and processing. Whilst it is possible to blend normal map layers, it's a lot more complicated than a simple blend mode (similar to photoshop's blend modes) to get an accurate result (although Unity does have a solution: whiteout blending - 3.2 Blending Normals).

 

A potentially cheaper option would be to allow variations in height, with fatter/thinner morphs - thinner variations would need relatively less 'jiggle' though and I'm not familiar with their system to know if it can be adjusted on the fly or if they'd need to prepare the variations in advance.

[Matt115]

7 hours ago, meganoth said:

 

This is comparing apples and oranges. While TFP adds stuff on all levels of the game, modders mostly work on the top level shiny stuff that has the highest impact but can't work without the lower level stuff. TFP is the car company building the car while the modders are the tuning shops.

 

For example the new RWG was surely a lot of low level programming and artistic work just to have a city with streets. What we will see is modders using those new RWG capabilities to add stuff like airports and massive mega-factories, flashy but optional stuff that TFP didn't even try because they might need more basic tier4 buildings for example.

 

On an artistic level you might be able to compare them, but this is subjective and unfair as modders have much more freedom, see the sorcery mod.

 

Well  idk how POI's tiers in 7dtd works but i will try to tell what i mean - well  i think 7dtd have this same problem with minecraft- modders adding more stuff that devs. but mods are instable. That's the biggest problem with mods.  But from other hand - if devs decided to  make airport ,dam and maybe  railways this  could be big enough to let them say - " what how big and badass this is" . And maybe do something risky like add 20+ guns and after that , balance this in next updates  ( well a lot of modern games first get contents and then get fixes in next updates). 

About artstyle- well 7dtd have so inconcent artstyle now - POI's looks realistic and  i can't complain about quality - only about missing "setting" stuff- pits with bodies, crashed cars, destroyed military outpost, medical field bases but it can be added in next updates so this can be easy fixed. Gore looks great but zombie design ( i have obssesion about art design) - crawlers looks like from  walking dead, screamer and  burned like from typical fear focused horror game, spider looks too much like taken from KF2 which is parody,  cop and radiant looks a little bit cod nuketown style- this is nothing bad, normal zombies looks  too much like characters from rage - so designe of them is so inconcent- i could wrote and give example how this could be fixed. Guns just not suits with design of pois and props -   you can find military trucks , a lot of miltary bases etc and..  you get  ak47 , lever gun and "primitive" mods- ak47 don't suits here and lever gun-  are rly hard to keep clean that's why bolt action guns are better- so i suggest to change ak47 into m16 and lever gun into m1 carbine - it could be more logical and better suit here- and about gun mods : 1. throw them to bin and add normal modern military "mods" 2. change military props into more devasted.  And i won't to talk about new armor suits until we will get screens -but concept art's more suit too rage 2/ fallout that into 7dtd - i suggest to 1. do something in tlou 1-2 or days gone style 2. do in dying light 2 style - ragged clothes but realistic - i think nobody would  wear clothes in geek  set concept art style 

[meganoth]

15 hours ago, Matt115 said:

Well  idk how POI's tiers in 7dtd works but i will try to tell what i mean - well  i think 7dtd have this same problem with minecraft- modders adding more stuff that devs. ....

 

No, that is working as intended.

 

Why would they do so much to support modding for almost everyone if they didn't want their game to get "immortality" through modding? Why would they have all that focus on vanilla to be the introductory version for beginners? 

 

You overestimate the importance of random complaints on the internet. Since the game can never be the perfect solution for everyone there will always be people saying Command&Conquer(*) is so much better. 😁

 

(*) Now just substitute any other game or mod for "C&C" and you have an immortal complaint, something you have to live with as a game developer no matter what you do.

[Matt115]

1 hour ago, meganoth said:

 

No, that is working as intended.

 

Why would they do so much to support modding for almost everyone if they didn't want their game to get "immortality" through modding? Why would they have all that focus on vanilla to be the introductory version for beginners? 

 

You overestimate the importance of random complaints on the internet. Since the game can never be the perfect solution for everyone there will always be people saying Command&Conquer(*) is so much better. 😁

 

(*) Now just substitute any other game or mod for "C&C" and you have an immortal complaint, something you have to live with as a game developer no matter what you do.

Hm.. i mean - i hear  few interview - diffrents studies, games etc and oftten they complain that mods - mods add more things that devs - more weapons, mobs , armors etc so - they have problems with updates or sequel because... modders do  a lot of stuff - that's why new total war games are almost not moddable. You can add new mobs, guns , pois , change systems etc so - if they would make dunno 7dtd in medival period probably somebody will make similiar mod for free before  they annouced etc. 

And thinking about vannilia as "introduction" will hurt game- because... this would change 7dtd into minecraft- almost nothing to do in vanilia because mods can add 200 enemies, 50 ores etc ( played in mc in 2017 last time).  Well this same problem with hom&m 3 - horn of the abbys is so good mod that ... no matter what would ubisoft do will be not enough. So devs would have create for example  random zombie generator in l4d2 style - because modders can't do this because it is too much complicated. Without solutions like this modders will be much  much forward

[meganoth]

32 minutes ago, Matt115 said:

Hm.. i mean - i hear  few interview - diffrents studies, games etc and oftten they complain that mods - mods add more things that devs - more weapons, mobs , armors etc so - they have problems with updates or sequel because... modders do  a lot of stuff - that's why new total war games are almost not moddable.

 

Exactly, different studios.  They have different future plans, different situations, different ideas, different opinions.

 

I simply assume that TFP willingly accepted that there will be much more stuff in mods than in vanilla and are ok with it, since they could clearly see what will likely happen through watching other moddable games. And they openly stated that they wanted modding in their game because of what they saw happened with Bethesda games (and minecraft?).

 

32 minutes ago, Matt115 said:

You can add new mobs, guns , pois , change systems etc so - if they would make dunno 7dtd in medival period probably somebody will make similiar mod for free before  they annouced etc. 

And thinking about vannilia as "introduction" will hurt game- because... this would change 7dtd into minecraft-

 

This would change nothing because vanilla IS ALREADY the introduction. I told you about what is fact right now, not any plans for the future. Vanilla at default difficulty is for beginners. When veterans complained about not enough endgame contents or the game being too easy they were always directed to check out mods

 

32 minutes ago, Matt115 said:

almost nothing to do in vanilia because mods can add 200 enemies, 50 ores etc ( played in mc in 2017 last time).  Well this same problem with hom&m 3 - horn of the abbys is so good mod that ... no matter what would ubisoft do will be not enough. So devs would have create for example  random zombie generator in l4d2 style - because modders can't do this because it is too much complicated. Without solutions like this modders will be much  much forward

 

[JCrook1028]

21 hours ago, Matt115 said:

lever gun-  are rly hard to keep clean that's why bolt action guns are better- so i suggest to change ak47 into m16 and lever gun into m1 carbine

So you want to change the lever gun because it is too hard to clean, then you want to change the Ak into a M-16? So exactly the opposite? You're not even consistent within your own desires yet want them to conform to your vision? My 2cents is learn to mod, it's the only way you'll EVER get all you want from the game.

[Matt115]

1 hour ago, meganoth said:

 

Exactly, different studios.  They have different future plans, different situations, different ideas, different opinions.

 

I simply assume that TFP willingly accepted that there will be much more stuff in mods than in vanilla and are ok with it, since they could clearly see what will likely happen through watching other moddable games. And they openly stated that they wanted modding in their game because of what they saw happened with Bethesda games (and minecraft?).

 

 

This would change nothing because vanilla IS ALREADY the introduction. I told you about what is fact right now, not any plans for the future. Vanilla at default difficulty is for beginners. When veterans complained about not enough endgame contents or the game being too easy they were always directed to check out mods

 

 

1. Well if they don't want to realse dlc in future this can have sens.

2. terraria is the best example of good sandbox game- in vanilia you have so much to do a lot of enemies , tiers of weapons etc. i know 7dtd is trying to be realistic but it can be done in similiar way. Terraria mods are big as vanilia game.

5 minutes ago, JCrook1028 said:

So you want to change the lever gun because it is too hard to clean, then you want to change the Ak into a M-16? So exactly the opposite? You're not even consistent within your own desires yet want them to conform to your vision? My 2cents is learn to mod, it's the only way you'll EVER get all you want from the game.

I think you don't care about style or setting at all. But i will try to explain why  lever gun is pointless but m16 could work well.

1. lever gun is hard too take care- so every modern ( by modern i  mean +- 1910 year)  army prefered bolt action rifles. they are easier too make, easier to clean and change parts and cheaper.

2. M16 is "typical" usa gun. Well i know USA  use diffrent guns now  like mk 17  or sig but - there is law problem so it will be safer to use m16 to avoid being sued- activsion was sued by  company which made HMMWV so it will be safe option - that's way most cars in l4d2 are from 70-80 to avoid being sued. 

And another reason- m16 could be found in miltary warehouses used because lack of "new" guns etc. so That's why m16 would suit better.

So this is not my " vision" but logical knowelege about guns etc.  - if you want to make game set in new orlean you are taking pictures looking  for info etc how new orlean looks, if you are making game about sengoku period you are looking how weapons  was used, how soldiers looks like,  if you are making game set in star wars in clone wars period you need info how diffrent legions of clones looks like , diffrent models of droid. Or you are going to make hated call of duty vaguard when AK use volksturmgewehr in 1942, japanse soldiers using stg 44 and in multiplayer this same characters fight each other ( you can find tons of comments about how much people hate this).

 

So - this  "learn to mod" is so realistic like ; learn quantum physic or learn how to make movies  - okay to be more clear - to make good looking characters you need to have tools and tools are rly expensive  ( well prices are subjective - 1 dollar in usa nothing but in iran worth much more ) 

[meganoth]

33 minutes ago, Matt115 said:

1. Well if they don't want to realse dlc in future this can have sens.

 

You still see problems were hardly any exist. There are dozens of features that can't be done in mods, at least not in an efficient way. Something like a water overhaul, totally new quest modes, shields or two handed fighting, or just 200 new buildings in the same style as the current ones (even if there are 500 POIs in compopack, it doesn't matter).

 

Lots of people will pay for such DLCs and lots of modders will use the new features in their mods making it mandatory to buy the DLC even if you want to just play some new mod.

 

And we don't even need to look at features, just a graphics overhaul will sell even if there are graphics overhaul mods out there. Bethesda could sell all sorts of DLC including graphics overhauls even though there existed graphic overhauls of all their games by the dozens.

 

33 minutes ago, Matt115 said:

2. terraria is the best example of good sandbox game- in vanilia you have so much to do a lot of enemies , tiers of weapons etc. i know 7dtd is trying to be realistic but it can be done in similiar way. Terraria mods are big as vanilia game.

 

FTL is the best example of a game that has just a few enemies and two dozen of weapons. Terraria was successfull and FTL was successfull.

 

What does that tell us? 1) Success does not depend on how many enemies and weapons are in a game. 2) We can argue for anything by citing random successfull game who had it as well.

 

 

 

[Rabbitslovecactus]

I personally think that all zombies should move randomly. For example, the biker guy shouldn't have a specified movement type. There shouldn't be a crawler either. They should pool all the movements together, and then each zombie randomly picks from the pool, and there is a certain % chance that any zombie can spawn as a crawler. This would keep the visuals more fresh, especially if they make the zombie clothing/colours random. 

[Matt115]

1 hour ago, meganoth said:

 

You still see problems were hardly any exist. There are dozens of features that can't be done in mods, at least not in an efficient way. Something like a water overhaul, totally new quest modes, shields or two handed fighting, or just 200 new buildings in the same style as the current ones (even if there are 500 POIs in compopack, it doesn't matter).

 

Lots of people will pay for such DLCs and lots of modders will use the new features in their mods making it mandatory to buy the DLC even if you want to just play some new mod.

 

And we don't even need to look at features, just a graphics overhaul will sell even if there are graphics overhaul mods out there. Bethesda could sell all sorts of DLC including graphics overhauls even though there existed graphic overhauls of all their games by the dozens.

 

 

FTL is the best example of a game that has just a few enemies and two dozen of weapons. Terraria was successfull and FTL was successfull.

 

What does that tell us? 1) Success does not depend on how many enemies and weapons are in a game. 2) We can argue for anything by citing random successfull game who had it as well.

 

 

 

1. Well shields is bad example - shields was added into minecraft before it was added in update.  But i think- if modders wanted to add new quest  they would probably (just give them time) - but if they don't  do ,this mean... they just diffrent stuff.  And 200 new building in this same style as current would be good and pointless in this same time - poi's could be added by mods ( well style of this buliding would be... random)- well poi design competition is example about that. But  HD zombie models cannot be added by mods because... modders don't have tools to do this - so most new characters are ports from diffrent games ( or asset store)  and UMA.  So 1. devs will give them tools. 2. vanillia zombies will be only zombie with good quality. 

2. about dlc- this  is complicated - in oblivion few dlc broke mods , skyrim.... have dlc and people bought them but modders was working/ done before something like that- children adoption and new building  was before heartstone - idk only if buidable house was added before or after this dlc by mods. 

3. FTL is more like darkess dungeon or biding of issac- terraria have more connected things with 7dtd like destroable world with buidling , events ( blood moon in both games), longer time of playing on this same world etc.   

Terraria and minecraft are similair about art style and "blocks" but terraria have more more mobs ,ores , weapons etc. minecraft is easier that terraria but have almost this same things ( events, bosses (dragon), flying you can builid a lot of things etc) but biggest diffrents is - minecraft have less content, is easier but is 3d and terraria have much more content, is harder but is 2d.

7dtd is more like minecraft but even with "bigger" limitations - can add  diffrent ores, mobs , weapons, worlds(like neather)  and will suit there good ( with exceptions like modern guns).  I think they a little bit too much limited themselft - weapons need to have similar number in every category because are connected with perks in this way to avoid being uselss or too powerfull. Zombies are limited quiet by their decision about AI  and type of game - "grabbing" zombies like hunter from  l4d2, riot from word war z or hunter dying light,  can't work in singleplayer with destrucible  world,  big zombies like tank from l4d2 ,  goon from dying light can't be added because ai , zombie children- well everyone know, and mutants in re style don't suit with style.  

So idk how they can solve this problem 😕 

But i think both we agree that zombies from  mods don't suit into vanillia zombies  = creature pack , snufkin pack can be good example about that 

Edited January 16, 2022 by Matt115 (see edit history)

[BFT2020]

6 hours ago, Matt115 said:

1. lever gun is hard too take care- so every modern ( by modern i  mean +- 1910 year)  army prefered bolt action rifles. they are easier too make, easier to clean and change parts and cheaper.

2. M16 is "typical" usa gun.

1 - we are not the military, we are one (or a few if Co-Op) person/people trying to survive the end of the world....and the lever action rifle was the rifle of the common person.

2 - The US has several signature weapons besides the AR15/M16.  The M1911 pistol was a very popular sidearm in the US before being replaced by the Glock series.  Remington was known as a very good manufacturer of shotguns and the Remington 870 pump action was popular.

 

Lever action rifle was requested by a lot of players and it's signature feel / animation distinguishes it from the single shot rifles and assault rifles in the game already.  Replacing it with just another assault rifle will cause us to lose something that is unique in this game (and replace it with something else we can play with in countless FPS out there).

 

Lets just keep the weapons we have today in vanilla and maybe a modder will introduce weapons that you want down the road.