Disappointed in first Tier 5 quest

[Spatch]

In Pregen6k, the only tier-5 locations are in the snow and wastelands.  As such, I picked wasteland since my temp resistance isn't up-to-par yet.  It was a Crack-a-Book HQ.

 

It took me two in-game days, was filled with insta-spawn horde triggers, constantly had outside mobs attacking, and ended up having only about 10 bookshelves in the whole POI, from which I got three books/schematics, 1 of which I hadn't read.  When I went to turn in the quest, I was offered crap rewards, worse than I'd been getting on the level 4 POIs.  All-in-all, a complete waste of time!

 

Did I just miss something in the POI (I cleared it and finished the quest) where there are more bookshelves?  Shouldn't tier 5 rewards, done in the Wasteland, offer top-notch rewards?  Was I just an RNG victim?

[Jason Tamosiunis]

8 hours ago, Spatch said:

In Pregen6k, the only tier-5 locations are in the snow and wastelands.  As such, I picked wasteland since my temp resistance isn't up-to-par yet.  It was a Crack-a-Book HQ.

 

It took me two in-game days, was filled with insta-spawn horde triggers, constantly had outside mobs attacking, and ended up having only about 10 bookshelves in the whole POI, from which I got three books/schematics, 1 of which I hadn't read.  When I went to turn in the quest, I was offered crap rewards, worse than I'd been getting on the level 4 POIs.  All-in-all, a complete waste of time!

 

Did I just miss something in the POI (I cleared it and finished the quest) where there are more bookshelves?  Shouldn't tier 5 rewards, done in the Wasteland, offer top-notch rewards?  Was I just an RNG victim?

is your daring adventurer maxed out if not that may be your issue

[Spatch]

I had two selections into Daring Adventurer.  However, the big takeaway for me was the lack of  a "book shelf" floor, like in the previous incarnation of this POI.  The only significant place I could have even seen them was on the ground floor where I think there were three "shelves" but each only had one filled "book case".

 

[PoloPoPo]

T5 crack-a-book tower (skyscraper_02) only offers a few bookshelfs in the "entrance hall" and some crack-a-book boxes around the main loot room. You did not miss something but in terms of actual books there is not much to get from that POI.

[Darklegend222]

Crack-a-book skyscraper, and the other one that is literally just a construction site are the worst skyscrapers in. Dishong tower and Higashi pharmaceutical are the only skyscrapers worth doing in terms of loot.

[Jason Tamosiunis]

19 hours ago, Spatch said:

I had two selections into Daring Adventurer.  However, the big takeaway for me was the lack of  a "book shelf" floor, like in the previous incarnation of this POI.  The only significant place I could have even seen them was on the ground floor where I think there were three "shelves" but each only had one filled "book case".

 

yeah buildings like the crack a book HQ have suffered with the new style they dont mean as much anymore TFP have turned every building into a dungeons including the ones that absolutely shouldnt have been converted

13 hours ago, PoloPoPo said:

T5 crack-a-book tower (skyscraper_02) only offers a few bookshelfs in the "entrance hall" and some crack-a-book boxes around the main loot room. You did not miss something but in terms of actual books there is not much to get from that POI.

all of the crack a books whether the towers or just the book stores should be filled with book shelves sometimes the devs for a game arent always right in their designs

[Laz Man]

11 minutes ago, Jason Tamosiunis said:

yeah buildings like the crack a book HQ have suffered with the new style they dont mean as much anymore TFP have turned every building into a dungeons including the ones that absolutely shouldnt have been converted

all of the crack a books whether the towers or just the book stores should be filled with book shelves sometimes the devs for a game arent always right in their designs

 

All of the skyscrapers were questable dungeon designs even before A20.  That did not change.

 

As far as the crack a book HQ is concerned, it was redesigned to be more believable.  The old version had alot of unbelievable things (e.g. printing press on upper floor but no elevator?)  As far as loot is concerned, it probably was reduced because it was not balanced.  The new one is relatively faster to clear in comparison to the old version and other skyscrapers.

 

As far as the joe bro builders POI (skyscraper_04), it is a T4 POI and was balanced accordingly.  It is worth pointing out there is still a considerable amount of construction crates which yield alot of good loot for crafting which was buffed in comparison to A19 (Great source for acid btw)

 

 

[Jason Tamosiunis]

1 minute ago, Laz Man said:

 

All of the skyscrapers were questable dungeon designs even before A20.  That did not change.

 

As far as the crack a book HQ is concerned, it was redesigned to be more believable.  The old version had alot of unbelievable things (e.g. printing press on upper floor but no elevator?)  As far as loot is concerned, it probably was reduced because it was not balanced.  The new one is relatively faster to clear in comparison to the old version and other skyscrapers.

 

As far as the joe bro builders POI (skyscraper_04), it is a T4 POI and was balanced accordingly.  It is worth pointing out there is still a considerable amount of construction crates which yield alot of good loot for crafting which was buffed in comparison to A19 (Great source for acid btw)

 

 

true i guess its all about trying to find the right balance so the majority can be happy because you will always get those that say either its way to much loot or no loot XD

[Laz Man]

Just now, Jason Tamosiunis said:

true i guess its all about trying to find the right balance so the majority can be happy because you will always get those that say either its way to much loot or no loot XD

 

Yep, I am not surprised about the reactions so far to the changes to the crack a book HQ.  If my memory is correct, the old one was so OP you could loot one and get bags full of books and schematics and be set.

[Jason Tamosiunis]

45 minutes ago, Laz Man said:

 

Yep, I am not surprised about the reactions so far to the changes to the crack a book HQ.  If my memory is correct, the old one was so OP you could loot one and get bags full of books and schematics and be set.

yep i abused it everytime XD

[POCKET951]

1 hour ago, Laz Man said:

 

Yep, I am not surprised about the reactions so far to the changes to the crack a book HQ.  If my memory is correct, the old one was so OP you could loot one and get bags full of books and schematics and be set.

not to mention you could get over 9000 paper from the printing press on the up floor

I just wanted to use the over 9000 meme, so it's slightly exaggerated, but you would easily get over 5k Paper or in other words, a stupid amount of paper that you will probably never use.

also in earlier alphas (18  I think) there use to be a building that looked like a  Library, it had 2 floors and it had tonnes of book shelves on each, not sure if it ever had crack a book sign on it but I haven't seen it anymore.

 

would you happen to know what POI I am talking about, and if it is still in the game or if it was redone and changed?

 

it would be strange to be if they just straight up deleted/removed poi's from the game. It makes more sense to me that they would redesign/reimagine/rennovate older Pois.

for example I can no longer find the fire stations with 2 gun safes and 2 vending machines in them

Edited January 10, 2022 by POCKET951 (see edit history)

[Laz Man]

1 hour ago, POCKET951 said:

not to mention you could get over 9000 paper from the printing press on the up floor

I just wanted to use the over 9000 meme, so it's slightly exaggerated, but you would easily get over 5k Paper or in other words, a stupid amount of paper that you will probably never use.

also in earlier alphas (18  I think) there use to be a building that looked like a  Library, it had 2 floors and it had tonnes of book shelves on each, not sure if it ever had crack a book sign on it but I haven't seen it anymore.

 

would you happen to know what POI I am talking about, and if it is still in the game or if it was redone and changed?

 

it would be strange to be if they just straight up deleted/removed poi's from the game. It makes more sense to me that they would redesign/reimagine/rennovate older Pois.

for example I can no longer find the fire stations with 2 gun safes and 2 vending machines in them

 

I think the library looking POI was a crack a book that was removed at least a couple alphas ago.

 

Dont know why it was removed.  I do remember there being an SI issue with it.

 

Generally speaking, the level design team doesn't just remove POIs without re-imagining / re-designing them.  There are some exceptions though (e.g. several POIs that are basically the same with just a different texture/color).

 

As a side note. I am currently updating an the older POI that was pulled a while go now....😅

[Darklegend222]

8 hours ago, Laz Man said:

 

Yep, I am not surprised about the reactions so far to the changes to the crack a book HQ.  If my memory is correct, the old one was so OP you could loot one and get bags full of books and schematics and be set.

If I may, the Crack-A-Book Skyscraper has a lot less bookshelves than the Crack-A-Book store with the car through the wall. Now that you mention it, I haven't seen the old one from A19.6.

 

I don't think it's unreasonable to expect a Tier IV quest POI to have a lot more loot than the rest. Doesn't Dishong tower have a LOT more bookshelves to loot from? (Could be wrong)

 

With that said, the Crack-A-Book Skyscraper has more piles than shelves, and as another user pointed out. The shelves have a much higher chance of outputting a schematic or perk book, than that of a Crack-A-Book shelf or book pile.

 

It's actually better to loot houses which have book shelves, than the Skyscraper, or even the store as houses are much more abundant. Don't get me wrong, I've definitely gotten useful stuff from the store. I have yet to receive anything anything from the Tier V quest in a form of schematic perk book. I've done the skyscraper twice and I'm at the point of declining it each time it pops up.

 

Edited January 10, 2022 by Darklegend222 (see edit history)

[Whorhay]

If the new Crack-a-Book T5 is faster to clear than the old one, it's only because there are multiple places where you are essentially guaranteed to aggro 15+ zombies. The way it worked before it was possible to clear it more sneakily. Now you walk into a new floor, and maybe sneak kill a couple before having more than a dozen trying to jump you all at once. Then you either kill them fast and the floor is cleared or you die.

[pahbi]

The rewards for tier V quests could be a LOT better

 

Currently, the main benefit to taking a T5 quest is you get a fresh skyscraper to loot.

 

 

 

 

[POCKET951]

6 hours ago, Laz Man said:

 

I think the library looking POI was a crack a book that was removed at least a couple alphas ago.

 

Dont know why it was removed.  I do remember there being an SI issue with it.

 

Generally speaking, the level design team doesn't just remove POIs without re-imagining / re-designing them.  There are some exceptions though (e.g. several POIs that are basically the same with just a different texture/color).

 

As a side note. I am currently updating an the older POI that was pulled a while go now....😅

oh all the Poi's I don't see anymore in alpha 20  are all in the level editor

AAA_store_book_LG_01

Police_Station1
Fire_station_02
Prison_01

I look at the police station and the book store and I can see the SI issues

will all these Pois eventually appear again in RWG? they seem pulled for now unless anyone has generated a world with these poi's in them.

[Laz Man]

12 minutes ago, POCKET951 said:

oh all the Poi's I don't see anymore in alpha 20  are all in the level editor

AAA_store_book_LG_01

Police_Station1
Fire_station_02
Prison_01

I look at the police station and the book store and I can see the SI issues

will all these Pois eventually appear again in RWG? they seem pulled for now unless anyone has generated a world with these poi's in them.

 

We would like to but it depends on priority and time.  We have no shortage of POIs to create  / update.  😆

[Spatch]

I'm going to clarify my OP a little.  I was disappointed in the loot - the POI was scary and had me cowering in fear (and fun) several times through the two-day run!  I play dead-is-dead so this POI was very difficult, and subsequently, very fun!

 

I just completed a level 2 house (something 4 as I recall) on a new run-through that had more book shelves in the house then this book store HQ.  If you don't want to have a ton of books in it anymore, please turn it into a department store HQ, instead of a bookstore HQ.

 

Then the quest rewards for this level 5 were way worse, as I mentioned, than level 3s and 4s that I'd been getting.  I wish I had written down the 4 items I had to choose from but I didn't.  They weren't "oh, that's good but I already have it" - they were "Wow, that's crap!"

 

TL;DR; I loved the quest itself and the tier 5s in Wastelands are no joke.  If you want to have the most fun in this game, switch to dead-is-dead and go tackle a tier 5 POI!  It adds a whole new dimension!

[POCKET951]

Well we've had lots feedback about people saying the tier 5  crack a book skyscraper is unrewarding, but we haven't seen any data on it.

so I went into all the  Main book store Pois in Alpha 20 and counted how many lootable containers there were that could contain books/schematics




But  @Laz Man as you can see, a tier 5 Poi  crack a book HQ has half as many lootable book containers compared to a tier 3 POI and even less than the tier 2 and less than a small store that's part of a strip building. I think the Tier 5 Poi definitely needs a bit of a buff as it is very underwhelming compared to similar Pois for the amount of effort required. It shouldn't be crazy or anything but I think it should be equal to or more than the tier 3.

The alpha 19 version may have been super OP, but the alpha 20 iteration has been incredibly over-nerfed
 

Edited January 10, 2022 by POCKET951 (see edit history)

[Apocalipservice]

11 hours ago, Laz Man said:

 

We would like to but it depends on priority and time.  We have no shortage of POIs to create  / update.  😆

Aw, we love Fire_Station_02! ...so maybe it's actually good that it's not on the map ATM so we check out other new/updated POIs, lol. 

[BFT2020]

12 minutes ago, POCKET951 said:

But  @Laz Man as you can see, a tier 5 Poi  crack a book HQ has half as many lootable book containers compared to a tier 3 POI and even less than the tier 2 and less than a small store that's part of a strip building. I think the Tier 5 Poi definitely needs a bit of a buff as it is very underwhelming compared to similar Pois for the amount of effort required. It shouldn't be crazy or anything but I think it should be equal to or more than the tier 3.

 

I better put my flame resistance clothes on first, but.....

 

Looking at your data matrix, I would think that the Tier 2 might need a nerf.  53 containers that you can possibly get a book or schematic seems excessive.  Except for the POI modified loot bonuses based on Tier (which only affects the scale of the book lootgroups), the containers in the Tier 2 will have the same probability chance of spawning something other than paper compared to the Tier 5 containers.

 

If I was king for a day, I would have the T2 contain the least amount, while the T5 have the most lootable containers.  However, I would only tweak the T5 a little bit and bring down the others accordingly.

 

But I also personally have yet to get that far in a playthrough to loot many bookstores and haven't yet done a T5.

[POCKET951]

1 minute ago, BFT2020 said:

 

I better put my flame resistance clothes on first, but.....

 

Looking at your data matrix, I would think that the Tier 2 might need a nerf.  53 containers that you can possibly get a book or schematic seems excessive.  Except for the POI modified loot bonuses based on Tier (which only affects the scale of the book lootgroups), the containers in the Tier 2 will have the same probability chance of spawning something other than paper compared to the Tier 5 containers.

 

If I was king for a day, I would have the T2 contain the least amount, while the T5 have the most lootable containers.  However, I would only tweak the T5 a little bit and bring down the others accordingly.

 

But I also personally have yet to get that far in a playthrough to loot many bookstores and haven't yet done a T5.

 half of the ones in the tier 2 though disappear after looting once, and would require a trader quest for a full reset. and your solution seems more reasonable.

 

they could add more crack a book boxes though in the final loot room and maybe tweak crack a book boxes to give schematic/book bundles?

I would hate to be that guy on the forums who gets hated for making TFP nerf the lower tier book stores that have gone untouched for so long. I would be okay if the numbers were rebalanced. where the tier 2/3/4 got slight nerfs and the tier 5 got a SIGNIFICANT buff

[BFT2020]

Just now, POCKET951 said:

I would hate to be that guy on the forums who gets hated for making TFP nerf the lower tier book stores that have gone untouched for so long. I would be okay if the numbers were rebalanced. where the tier 2/3/4 got slight nerfs and the tier 5 got a SIGNIFICANT buff

 

See you are fine.  If TFP were to make significant nerfs, you can just point back to my post and say "It wasn't me everyone, it was that crackpot BFT2020!"

 

I got my big boy pants on so I will be fine  😁

[schwanz9000]

Just because a POI has X number of book containers, doesn't mean you're going to get X number of books. RNG is RNG. Same goes for the Quest Rewards.

NOW, with that said. I'm currently working on more loot changes for A20.1 to give loot rooms a bit of a boost. 

As far as the POI in question here, that's up to level design. 

[POCKET951]

2 minutes ago, schwanz9000 said:

Just because a POI has X number of book containers, doesn't mean you're going to get X number of books. RNG is RNG. Same goes for the Quest Rewards.

NOW, with that said. I'm currently working on more loot changes for A20.1 to give loot rooms a bit of a boost. 

As far as the POI in question here, that's up to level design. 

 Glad you are giving loot rooms a boost. its really a bit of letdown to open the final chest in most Pois and get 100s of bullets  but no weapons or armor
I wonder if any of this has anything to do with the lootstage being over 255? or if it is a product of the new loot system just requiring polish?