Do you enjoy to build in A20 without rebar frames ?

[MZM]

I miss rebar frames. Building is not that enjoyable as it used to be, because no matter how experienced I am, I still misplace blocks sometimes. It is annoying to destroy concrete block with 5000 hp every time I misplace one. I would be scared to use steel blocks even more.

 

I liked rebar frames and wet concrete -> reinforced concrete. 1. it felt more like building 2. there was margin for error. You could first lay a frame structure and see, what to change and then upgrade. Even then you could destroy wet concrete with only 1500 hp.. Now we just have to either bother with wood frames to see some structure before upgrading and then either waste wood and cobblestone for upgrade, or pick the frame up and replace with concrete/steel block and hope not to misplace block in proces.

 

Wet concrete is something I could live without. What I suggest is either bring back rebar frames, or make every "shapes" block pickable/destroyable for example with 5 min timer after placing in similar way Wet Concrete had timer to dry out after upgrading and forever change state to reinforced concrete in few minutes. Shapes blocks would be forever solid some time after placing them. You have the algorithm. For example: If Player build something with Steel Shapes, anybody would be able to pick it up or destroy that block 5 min after placing.

 

Side fact: With this suggestion it would maybe not only be more enjoyable to build for everyone in any game mode, but it would also make PvP players happy, because raiding is in PvP is very fun until defender player patch hole in wall with fresh block after raider spent effort do destroy it.. (Wet Concrete was at least only 1500 HP..)

 

Any thoughts ?

[pApA^LeGBa]

It´s harder now for sure. Like you said no room for errors.

 

The cobblestone stage is really bad. Needing tons of clay sucks bigtime. Clay is so annoying to get, i really hope we either get the rebarframe back or someone does a mod. 

 

This change is a nightmare for builders.

[Viktoriusiii]

CLAY is your problem? :'D
I have only done a 7x7 foundation (so 49 blocks) as well as a mine.
And I am SWIMMING in clay. My furnace is full and I still have nearly a complete stack of it laying around (my non-hordebase is also made from cobblestone)
I have been mining a pretty decent mine and stone is ALWAYS missing.


About the building:
It has ups and downsides.

I think I would like them to implement a shapes block for every material (like for wood, there we have the 2 wood and the 10 wood).
But I CAN live without it.

I am just happy that even wood holds pretty well against zombies.

[pApA^LeGBa]

@Viktoriusiii Well, we want to build a castle later in game. A big one. Now go and get the clay to upgrade all that blocks. For normal playing it´s ok. But if you wanna build big it sucks. A lot.

[n2n1]

1 hour ago, MZM said:

I miss rebar frames. Building is not that enjoyable as it used to be, because no matter how experienced I am, I still misplace blocks sometimes. It is annoying to destroy concrete block with 5000 hp every time I misplace one. I would be scared to use steel blocks even more.

 

I liked rebar frames and wet concrete -> reinforced concrete. 1. it felt more like building 2. there was margin for error. You could first lay a frame structure and see, what to change and then upgrade. Even then you could destroy wet concrete with only 1500 hp.. Now we just have to either bother with wood frames to see some structure before upgrading and then either waste wood and cobblestone for upgrade, or pick the frame up and replace with concrete/steel block and hope not to misplace block in proces.

 

Wet concrete is something I could live without. What I suggest is either bring back rebar frames, or make every "shapes" block pickable/destroyable for example with 5 min timer after placing in similar way Wet Concrete had timer to dry out after upgrading and forever change state to reinforced concrete in few minutes. Shapes blocks would be forever solid some time after placing them. You have the algorithm. For example: If Player build something with Steel Shapes, anybody would be able to pick it up or destroy that block 5 min after placing.

 

Side fact: With this suggestion it would maybe not only be more enjoyable to build for everyone in any game mode, but it would also make PvP players happy, because raiding is in PvP is very fun until defender player patch hole in wall with fresh block after raider spent effort do destroy it.. (Wet Concrete was at least only 1500 HP..)

 

Any thoughts ?

The game no longer puts building as an important aspect of this game.

Now it's a "looter-shooter".

[MZM]

24 minutes ago, n2n1 said:

The game no longer puts building as an important aspect of this game.

Now it's a "looter-shooter".

We have new ~1200 shapes menu for building, so that is great improvement for advanced building and limitless creativity. I am not worried about building being not as important aspect of this game.

 

More like actual effort to build something big and enjoy doing it in vanilla game is kinda throttled by A20 idea of make it simpler with removing rebar frames and wet concrete. Actual result of this is worse than expected because of placing high HP solid not pickable blocks is not as practical imo.

Edited December 11, 2021 by MZM (see edit history)

[JCrook1028]

I'm fine without rebar frames IF, IF, they make all shapes behave the same way as the wood ones do. Lay it then upgrade it to a real block with wood/cobble/concrete etc. It works well for the wood shapes so just duplicate the same system for all. No clue how they thought building with straight concrete blocks was even remotely a good idea. Lack of thought went into that process obviously.

[canadianbluebeer]

The wood-cobble-concrete-steel path is fine for many things, but late game it was always rebar-concrete-steel.

 

Misplacing a block is always going to be a thing, particularly on big projects.

 

Rebar was nice as you could just slap them down making the walls, check, then REMOVE the ones needed for doors, hatches etc.

 

I too would like rebar back.

 

[ElCabong]

2 hours ago, pApA^LeGBa said:

It´s harder now for sure. Like you said no room for errors.

 

The cobblestone stage is really bad. Needing tons of clay sucks bigtime. Clay is so annoying to get, i really hope we either get the rebarframe back or someone does a mod. 

 

This change is a nightmare for builders.

Take a shovel to those blue boxes. They're full of cobblestone. I have never used any clay to make cobblestone and I have about half my base upgraded to stone.

[pApA^LeGBa]

28 minutes ago, ElCabong said:

Take a shovel to those blue boxes. They're full of cobblestone. I have never used any clay to make cobblestone and I have about half my base upgraded to stone.

 

Sure. Big castle. I doubt there is enough cobblestone in POI´s for that. Maybe for the wall around the park the castle will be inside.

 

Using the concrete blocks is only partly a solution some things you need to see before you are sure you want them that way.

[IgnyteZero]

4 hours ago, pApA^LeGBa said:

It´s harder now for sure. Like you said no room for errors.

 

The cobblestone stage is really bad. Needing tons of clay sucks bigtime. Clay is so annoying to get, i really hope we either get the rebarframe back or someone does a mod. 

 

This change is a nightmare for builders.

Not even reflected on that rebar frames aren't in. Just use Shape Frames to design your building and then replace with Concrete frames.

As for Cobblestone, you get TONS of cobblestone and cement from looting POI's easilly. They're more common than corn fields. Usually litters every cellar and attic everywhere.
 

[pApA^LeGBa]

The next on that tells me to just get cobblestone from POI´s. Nope. This is gonna be a 3 person building project. It´s gonna be huge. Like Dishong is a joke compared to it huge.

 

And yes, i still need to go trough all building options, pretty sure i miss things right now and i actually don´t need rebarframes. That project is for when we are bored with normal game play in A20.

Edited December 11, 2021 by pApA^LeGBa (see edit history)

[n2n1]

4 hours ago, MZM said:

We have new ~1200 shapes menu for building, so that is great improvement for advanced building and limitless creativity. I am not worried about building being not as important aspect of this game.

 

More like actual effort to build something big and enjoy doing it in vanilla game is kinda throttled by A20 idea of make it simpler with removing rebar frames and wet concrete. Actual result of this is worse than expected because of placing high HP solid not pickable blocks is not as practical imo.

Main purpose of the variety of forms - is to create more internal content in the game. Better quality POIs.

Player, just can use that too.

 

Edited December 11, 2021 by n2n1 (see edit history)

[ElCabong]

6 hours ago, pApA^LeGBa said:

 

Sure. Big castle. I doubt there is enough cobblestone in POI´s for that. Maybe for the wall around the park the castle will be inside.

 

Using the concrete blocks is only partly a solution some things you need to see before you are sure you want them that way.

Oh I see. It's BIG. You might be able to use dynamite in the rock layer and make a lot of little rocks that all you have to do is pick them up. I haven't done this in a long long time. Not sure if it works. make sure you have lots of coffee while you're digging the clay. Or rocks. My stamina would not run out using coffee while digging with a stone shovel.

[Vaeliorin]

It's certainly frustrating, not only because of blocks that can't be picked up, but also because of all the experience you miss out on.  Technically it's cheaper in terms of stone to do wood->cobble->concrete now (because it's only 10  concrete mix per block instead of 20) but you need the extra clay and wood (which admittedly, usually aren't a problem for me) but the time crafting the cobble is kind of nuts.

 

If I look at my last big build in A19, it started with a 65X65 concrete slab as a base.  That took 4225 rebar frames and 84,500 concrete mix and I got ~2,000,000 experience from doing all the upgrading.  Were I to do that now, I'd need 33,800 wood, 42250 cobblestone and 42250 concrete mix if I wanted to do it from removable blocks.  This wouldn't really be a huge problem because I often end up with 100,000+ wood and tons of clay shoved in a box somewhere (one playthrough I had over a million clay stashed in a box from digging sand in the desert) but I feel like I'd need 2-3 workbenches churning out cobblestone 24/7 to actually end up with a usable amount.  The rest of the build took a lot more materials (it was ~75 blocks tall) so...I don't know how long it would take to craft all the cobblestone I would need now, but I'm thinking it wouldn't be a short time.

 

I wouldn't want to miss out on all that experience from doing it from straight concrete now, though.

[kraegor]

I do agree that rebar frames should be put back in the game.  Just simply for the OOPS factor of placing concrete blocks and having to smack them back up.

 

The upgrade path from wood > cobble > concrete > steel is fine.  Its simple and nice.  But rebar frames (or the option on a hammer/nailgun to fill a wood frame with concrete) should be placed in.

[Jason Tamosiunis]

13 hours ago, MZM said:

We have new ~1200 shapes menu for building, so that is great improvement for advanced building and limitless creativity. I am not worried about building being not as important aspect of this game.

 

More like actual effort to build something big and enjoy doing it in vanilla game is kinda throttled by A20 idea of make it simpler with removing rebar frames and wet concrete. Actual result of this is worse than expected because of placing high HP solid not pickable blocks is not as practical imo.

no the new shape menu is a nightmare and confusing

[Scyris]

Well i've noticed the blocks tend to.. snap to a grid more than they do in A19. So I actually found it easier to play things and have been making less mistakes than usual, as you can clearly see where its gonna go, as well as if the structural intergrity will hold up, if something is red/pinkish when you go to place it, its going to collapse if you place that block, least I assume thats what it means when it goes pinkish red like that.

6 hours ago, Jason Tamosiunis said:

no the new shape menu is a nightmare and confusing

 

Yes and no, some of the categories are well done, some are not. like Finding the bars was a bit of a journey. You can upgrade bars all the way to steel now, follows the same upgrade path of any block.

[AccountForDownloadOneMod]

The lack of upgrading through metal/iron made me sad, I'm enjoying A20 very much but some decisions are just bad, like wheres the iron ore ? why upgrading from wood to stone, to concrete then steel, makes no sense to me. Glad theres a mod already to bring those features back.

[pApA^LeGBa]

1 hour ago, AccountForDownloadOneMod said:

The lack of upgrading through metal/iron made me sad, I'm enjoying A20 very much but some decisions are just bad, like wheres the iron ore ? why upgrading from wood to stone, to concrete then steel, makes no sense to me. Glad theres a mod already to bring those features back.

 

Wood to cobblestone to concrete and then steel isn´t new to A20. That is around for quite a while now. They took out the iron frames, yeah. I never used those, to much iron needed to upgrade, not viable for me, takes too much time to gather the iron.

Edited December 18, 2021 by pApA^LeGBa (see edit history)

[Kosmic Kerman]

On 12/12/2021 at 12:25 AM, Jason Tamosiunis said:

no the new shape menu is a nightmare and confusing

It's fine, you just need to use it some more to get used to it. I'll give you a tip that should make it easier for you. The top button toggles between all the shapes and the basic shapes. If all you want is the basic shapes it will make the menu much easier to use.

 

I think the real issue with the lack of rebar is not having to make cobblestone but rather that wood frames don't have the same SI values as rebar. This makes laying out/building a base trickier. With the removal of the first stage of concrete I'm not sure there's a meaningful difference in material costs, considering that cement is such a bear to make. I don't see the difference between mining stone vs mining clay.  In my solo playthroughs I never smelt stone and just harvest cement from POIs or buy it from traders. But for a large construction, that is a lot of stone you have to smelt to make enough cement.

Edited December 18, 2021 by Kosmic Kerman (see edit history)

[JCrook1028]

3 hours ago, pApA^LeGBa said:

Wood to cobblestone to concrete and then steel isn´t new to A20.

Yes, it IS new to A20. Used to be wood to reinforced wood to iron to cobble. They took out 2 levels for A20. They also took out the reinforced concrete step between concrete and steel. Did you not even play A19 to know what is missing?

[pApA^LeGBa]

What? if you put down a woodframe the stages where wood, reinforced wood, cobblestone, concrete, reinforced concrete, steel. There was no iron in between at least not in A17-19, honestly can´t remember before. @JCrook1028

 

Two stage are missing, that´s true, i was simply lazy when typing assuming people will know anyways. Otherwise the upgrading stayed the same. There is no more iron frames (not to be confused with rebar frames), but tbh, i never used those so i have no clue if they were removed in A20 or earlier.

Edited December 18, 2021 by pApA^LeGBa (see edit history)

[Kosmic Kerman]

46 minutes ago, JCrook1028 said:

Yes, it IS new to A20. Used to be wood to reinforced wood to iron to cobble. They took out 2 levels for A20. They also took out the reinforced concrete step between concrete and steel. Did you not even play A19 to know what is missing?

I don't remember needing iron in my inventory to upgrade from wood to cobblestone in A19. I think the upgrade path was changed in A18 or A19.  I'm sure there were mods that differed from the stock game though. I did a playthrough in A19 just before A20 dropped and I never kept iron in my inventory because I only needed it for iron hatches.

Edited December 18, 2021 by Kosmic Kerman (see edit history)

[JCrook1028]

44 minutes ago, Kosmic Kerman said:

I don't remember needing iron in my inventory to upgrade from wood to cobblestone in A19. I think the upgrade path was changed in A18 or A19.  I'm sure there were mods that differed from the stock game though. I did a playthrough in A19 just before A20 dropped and I never kept iron in my inventory because I only needed it for iron hatches.

Yea maybe it was going into 19 that the first change was made. My mind.......... you know. Lol