My thoughts&feedback

[Enderkatze]

     Starting with Navezgane. It's a nice enough map, but once you've explored a good bit of it, all replayability is gone, and starting a new save on it is boring, as you already know so much of the map that everything is recognizable to you. This is only worsened by there being a total of 3 spawnpoints, all of which are very close to eachother, meaning getting anywhere new is very hard. Alot of the mini-city layouts are rather nonsensical, and don't look like actual cities, apart from the one in the desert, and even that is weirdly small, as are the others. It is otherwise a pretty nice map, even if i feel like there should be more undisturbed nature.

 

     Next, let's zoom in, to each building. They're mostly fine. They don't always entirely make sense, but without all the damage, they're fine enough. Now, with the damage... it's obvious they're set up to be linear dungeons. Now, this is fine enough, if a bit generic... untill you think about it. All these doors are tightly locked, except that one. Why is that one, that just convenielty leads to a ladder to the attic, that just happens to have a hole directly above the room with the tightly locked door, with a matress below it, but no way to get up from the room, unlocked? How are the people in there still rotten zombies? Or, this room, also tightly locked, but the window is completely gone, and just coincidentally, there's a ledge leading to it from a, for some reason, unlocked room that, also for some reason, has either a massive hole in the wall, or also a completely missing window. Why? Who knows! Why is the person sitting in that room, safe from the horde, still a zombie? Who knows! Why are people hiding in vents and closets with parts sized specificly for them, just waiting to turn into zombies and ambush exploring survivors? Who @%$#ing knows!

 

     Look, many of these ideas are cool once or twice. But they are ridiculously common, especially zombies hiding in vents and closets, to the point where most players would likely be surprised if there WASN'T a zombie or two hiding in there!  In short, there's some good ideas that are totally overused to the point of being annoying, the degrading of the buildings makes no bloody sense, buildings don't feel like the thing they're supposed to be but instead just like linear dungeons, and overall i feel alot of buildings need to be reworked. Now, not all buildings do, some of them are really cool, e.g. the mansion in the icebiome with the massive cave and lab style thing underneath! ...actually the cave/lab part might need reconstruction, if i remember correctly the generator room was set up very weirdly.

 

     Oh and also: Why are there sexy-nurse-costume zombies in fire stations? I'd rather see repetitive zombie skins that make sense than skins i'd only ever expect to see in the stripclub littered all over the place! Introduce some actual nurse/doctor skins at least.

 

     Now i won't comment on the procedurally generated maps as I have been told a20 is coming with an extensive generation rework, which is of course exciting. I'd just recommend that instead of population being relatively evenly spaced out, there are certain parts which have a very high population density, while others are mostly untouched, with only very few buildings that might make sense to be out in the wilderness, and i do also recommend sectioning the conurbation(if this is not the correct term, blame google translate) into subsections, such as village, suburban, urban, and industrialized, maybe a few others too.

 

     Alright, next, weapons.

WHY THE @%$# IS THERE AN AK47 IN THIS AMERICAN MILITARY CAMP?!

the AK 47 stopped being used by the Soviet Union in 1974. Only second and third world nations aswell as Non-state militaries still use it, and even then it's not the most common. the Soviet Union replaced it with the AKM, the currently most common variant of the AK series rifles in second/third world nations and non-state militaries and even later with the AK74. Under no circumstances would an AK47 be found in such abundance as it is in modern America. Seriously.

 

Uh, what's next...

Nah, can't think of anything right now. Will edit/comment if i think of more things to talk about.

 

came up with smth.

Why is there like, 10 zombies in a house with 3 bedrooms? Seriously. How many people lived in this house? Was there a mass refugee wave to this specific region? Why? And why would they be living in a bunch of different people's houses, instead of in refugee camps or just out on the streets? This dun make sense.

Edited April 26, 2021 by Roland
broke it into paragraphs (see edit history)

[BFT2020]

wall of text.....

 

 

 

zzzzzzzzzzz

[Boidster]

46 minutes ago, Enderkatze said:

Oh and also: Why are there sexy-nurse-costume zombies in fire stations?

 

So, nobody told you about the link between sexy-nurse costumes and the origin of the zombie apocalypse? It's important information! Or, perhaps, you might realize that specific zombie types are not hand-placed in every spawn point in every POI. The fire station in this town might have Sexy Nurse, the next town over has a fire station full of Party Girls. The one in the far north is full of Lumberjacks, hey we don't judge. I guess what I'm saying is that fire stations are places to party.

 

45 minutes ago, Enderkatze said:

I'd just recommend that instead of population being relativly evenly spaced out, there are certain parts which have a very high population density, while others are mostly untouched, with only very few buildings that might make sense to be out in the wilderness, and i do also recommend sectioning the conurbation(if this is not the correct term, blame google translate) into subsections, such as village, suburban, urban, and industrialized, maybe a few others too.

 

This is literally how it is done. Check your prefabs folder and open any of the .xml files. You'll see something like this:
 

<property name="AllowedTownships" value="rural,wilderness" />

 

That is from POI "cabin_02". Go into any random-gen world and teleport to cabin_02 (or any cabin - they all have the same setting). You will find them in rural/small towns and out in the wildnerness. You ought not to ever find a cabin next to Higashi Tower in a big city.

[Roland]

If zombies being in rafters and closets don't make any sense to you then make up a reason and use that as your personal backstory. Mine is that the Duke planted people who crossed him in those places knowing they would turn. He would have done the same to me but something went wrong and I found myself dazed on the side of the road instead.

 

As for the linear path of each house-- it's your choice to follow those or not. You have the means to hack through whatever locked door you want to go through and I often do. POI's seldom feel linear to me.

 

Honestly, though, I just don't overthink the silly and bizarre situations in the game. I just accept them as the way the world works and have fun within those parameters. Zombies WILL be in closets, Zombies CAN break down concrete with their bare hands, I CAN carry a ton of building materials, Zombie Vultures DO attack vehicles, A red moon DOES agitate and enhance zombies, AK-47s ARE in abundance in America, Every business IS named as a pun, etc. Navezgane may not be a perfect representation of our world but it is consistent with itself if you choose to accept the rules of its universe.

Edited April 26, 2021 by Roland (see edit history)

[Maharin]

The people in the rafters all started with the Ceiling Cat Cult in the old days.   /shudder

[Kyonshi]

Nah, dont bother editing your post to add something more to talk (whine) about.

 

Instead, please dont play this game and uninstall it if its making a hell of your life that much. You're welcome.

[meganoth]

2 hours ago, Kyonshi said:

Nah, dont bother editing your post to add something more to talk (whine) about.

 

Instead, please dont play this game and uninstall it if its making a hell of your life that much. You're welcome.

 

Everyone is free to give his opinion here, even if someone likes realism 😉. As a first time poster Enderkatze also does not know that this topic (like almost all topics ever invented) was discussed to death in this forum.

 

[Kyonshi]

8 minutes ago, meganoth said:

 

Everyone is free to give his opinion here, even if someone likes realism 😉. As a first time poster Enderkatze also does not know that this topic (like almost all topics ever invented) was discussed to death in this forum.

 

Yeah, well, there's constructive criticism and there's having a coronary in Caps Lock about AKs not supposed to exist on US military bases in a game where suspension of disbelief is largely used.

 

Or losing his @%$# about having too many zombies in a house with 3 bedrooms. Like no, zombies dont walk around into any kind of building, they just chill in a house because they like the wallpaper and invite friends over for a BBQ... Jesus surfing christ 😆

 

This guy doesnt really know about the concept of alternate reality? Yeah, thought so.

 

At first i thought it was a joke topic and still could well be so. Anyone here taking him seriously? Not really. Creative and progressive criticism is fun, it nourishes discussions and into those can flourish great design ideas. But not this.

 

He's free to post whatever he wants. So am i to reply what i said before.

 

[Mastermind]

2 hours ago, meganoth said:

Everyone is free to give his opinion here, even if someone likes realism 😉.

And yet, he fails to address the most glaring issue.

"WTH are there zombies in this game!?!?!?!  Zombies don't exists!!!!!!"

[BFT2020]

While I don’t agree with most of the points made, I did read them after Roland made some grammar edits to it.  It’s amazing how easier it is to read something when you use spaces between paragraphs😁

[meganoth]

15 hours ago, Kyonshi said:

Yeah, well, there's constructive criticism and there's having a coronary in Caps Lock about AKs not supposed to exist on US military bases in a game where suspension of disbelief is largely used.

 

Or losing his @%$# about having too many zombies in a house with 3 bedrooms. Like no, zombies dont walk around into any kind of building, they just chill in a house because they like the wallpaper and invite friends over for a BBQ... Jesus surfing christ 😆

 

This guy doesnt really know about the concept of alternate reality? Yeah, thought so.

 

At first i thought it was a joke topic and still could well be so. Anyone here taking him seriously? Not really. Creative and progressive criticism is fun, it nourishes discussions and into those can flourish great design ideas. But not this.

 

He's free to post whatever he wants. So am i to reply what i said before.

 

 

But there are ultra-realistic games, even when they add a central fantasy like magic or faster than light or time travel. This is just a choice the developer makes and it isn't set in stone. For example the zombie adventure made by Telltale was as realistic as possible, but still had zombies. 

 

Now we "insiders" have read all the arguments and we know why 7d2d can't be very realistic. We have the advantage of having thought about this subject multiple times and tested our arguments in discussions. Our good arguments are common knowledge, our wrong arguments are forgotten since someone told us the reason why they were wrong. 

 

Lots of newcomers to this forum make a "bad" first post in which they demand stuff that we know will never happen. If they get some sort of new player protection for their first steps they sometimes become valuable contributors to the forum and for example report bugs that otherwise might stay a lot longer in the game or make a mod or build a nice POI that we all profit from.

 

But for that to happen you have to give newcomers the chance to drop bad habits learned from arguing in steam forums 😁

 

 

[Urban Blackbear]

I own a Riley Defense AK47 and I'm American. Just sayin.

[Mastermind]

5 hours ago, meganoth said:

But for that to happen you have to give newcomers the chance to drop bad habits learned from arguing in steam forums 😁

 

I'd have a hard time throwing the first stone...  I definitely didn't like the tone of the OP, came to me as too entitled/spoiled bratish to my liking. (And god there's nothing that triggers me like that kind of behavior).  Maybe that's only my own perception though.

 

Otherwise, I don't mind a dead horse beating worthy post.  Newcomer or not.  Even veterans might have missed the dead horse beating and might come for more.

[FA_Q2]

4 hours ago, Urban Blackbear said:

I own a Riley Defense AK47 and I'm American. Just sayin.

It is rather funny when something like the model of the weapon annoys a player because of immersion.  I never even noticed what weapon was being used, to me they were auto, pistol, sniper and shotgun, nothing more.  What they are labeled as or modeled after does not really matter.  

[Roland]

28 minutes ago, FA_Q2 said:

It is rather funny when something like the model of the weapon annoys a player because of immersion.  I never even noticed what weapon was being used, to me they were auto, pistol, sniper and shotgun, nothing more.  What they are labeled as or modeled after does not really matter.  

You're not a gun nut. Neither am I.

 

Happy are we with our rootie-tootie-point-and-shooties!

[Urban Blackbear]

Woah, lets not go calling people gun nuts. I am a rifle enthusiast, sportsman and hunter. Besides, I've never seen a rifle bear any kind of fruit or seed at all. 

[Maharin]

18 hours ago, Urban Blackbear said:

Woah, lets not go calling people gun nuts. I am a rifle enthusiast, sportsman and hunter. Besides, I've never seen a rifle bear any kind of fruit or seed at all. 

 

Gun nuts are ammo.

[FA_Q2]

On 4/28/2021 at 10:35 AM, Roland said:

You're not a gun nut. Neither am I.

 

Happy are we with our rootie-tootie-point-and-shooties!

Well, I was in the service so I have pretty in depth knowledge of what you would find in an army camp.

 

It is just funny what specific details pull some people out of immersion.  We all have some odd tick.  For him, it is a specific model of firearm found at the army camps.  Never mind that none of the vehicles, tents, cots, layout, walls and on and on that also do not match what would be found at a military camp.  I mean, the largest ones have concrete walls.  Are these 12th century army camps?  Army castles?  And no, K-walls are not comparable to what the military camps have in game.

 

The model of the guns are rather low on the list of things that strike me as odd when I go through the abstract that the game calls an army camp.

 

Edited April 29, 2021 by FA_Q2 (see edit history)