A20 Developer Diary Discussions

[bachgaman]

17 minutes ago, Adam the Waster said:

You need one to set up a base and if you mess something up so you can pick it back up.

When you build a base or upgrade a POI, you often have to destroy your blocks. Think about the fact that in fact any block in the game is more expensive than Land Claim Block. Why so? When building a base and protecting against a zombie spawn base (targeted use LCB), you need only one LCB, I don't think it's hard to put it wisely. Let it be more expensive than all other blocks, it will make sense and protect the game from abuse

17 minutes ago, Adam the Waster said:

maybe the Land claim block could be a flag or something not a block that could not be built on. or to act as a support. 

I wanted to suggest something like this, but people write about devs time and resources. If that's so important, the easiest way is to make LCB expensive and long for crafting. It won't ruin fair play. It will only remove opportunities for abuse

Edited April 28, 2021 by bachgaman (see edit history)

[BFT2020]

15 minutes ago, bachgaman said:

Im agree that's why I'm writing about it. The game pushes us to use the shortcomings boringly and I ask to fix it. Besides, it's not hard.

I don't use it by the way, but I know a lot of people abuse

I disagree.  I never used that cheesy tactic and don't feel the game is pushing me to do so.   I tend to keep wooden spikes on my toolbelt to redirect / block wandering hordes when I am out in the open.  Some people may feel that is cheesy, but it is the way I play at times.  

 

Don't like making the recipe more expensive.  I sometimes have to use several blocks (if I move locations or change where I want to place it) before I even think about going for buried treasures and haven't found any gold yet.

 

My opinion - It's cheesy but I don't think TFP need to fix an issue that really doesn't affect others.  If TFP want to, more power to them; but not on my list of items I want them to work on before going Gold  😁

[bachgaman]

5 minutes ago, BFT2020 said:

I disagree.  I never used that cheesy tactic and don't feel the game is pushing me to do so.   I tend to keep wooden spikes on my toolbelt to redirect / block wandering hordes when I am out in the open.  Some people may feel that is cheesy, but it is the way I play at times.  

 

Don't like making the recipe more expensive.  I sometimes have to use several blocks (if I move locations or change where I want to place it) before I even think about going for buried treasures and haven't found any gold yet.

 

My opinion - It's cheesy but I don't think TFP need to fix an issue that really doesn't affect others.  If TFP want to, more power to them; but not on my list of items I want them to work on before going Gold  😁

Come on, man, I remember you, you're just my hater. Whatever I write, you will answer something like this. If you like to have free blocks with 7000 durability, then get high, but it's stupid to come up with something to justify it.
 

Having the opportunity to put up a block for free that will not only protect you from the horde, but will also save you from spawning of zombies while you dig up the treasure (by the way, i didn't think about this type of abuse) is not quite in the spirit of a survival game. But you keep arguing and prove to me that the 5 minutes of the developer he will spend to change the recipe and the duration of crafting are not worth it🤣

 

By the way, there's a creative mode in the game if you didn't know

[Ricowan]

2 hours ago, bachgaman said:

At least they can make the recipe more expensive, for example include gold and silver that not used in the game

This is something you, and anyone else, can do via the config files.  The name of the LCB is "keystoneBlock".  Edit the recipe in recipes.xml or make a modlet to do it.  Either way, it's something we players can "fix" ourselves, without wasting FunPimp developer time.

[bachgaman]

7 minutes ago, Ricowan said:

This is something you, and anyone else, can do via the config files.  The name of the LCB is "keystoneBlock".  Edit the recipe in recipes.xml or make a modlet to do it.  Either way, it's something we players can "fix" ourselves, without wasting FunPimp developer time.

Why would I change that if I just don't abuse it? Your answer is very fun and looks even more fun against the backdrop of reproaches about the developers' time and resources they will spend balancing the LCB recipe (open xml file and change few numbers and items ids)

 

Your answer is something in style of "if you don't like anything, don't play this game or download mods/make mods for yourself."

I'm talking about the balance of the game in its vanilla manifestation, not how I could forbid myself to abuse it.

 

I don't use cheat codes in singleplayer games because I understand that it will kill my interest in the game. It's the same here. But the more situations I have to make assumptions, I have to make an effort to refrain from using certain mechanics, the more artificial the fun from gameplay. Gradually, the gameplay turns from survival to coming up with difficulties for yourself

 

It resembles playing with toys in childhood, where you invent everything from start to end. But it's a computer game and it has the ability to challenge itself by immersing the player in the atmosphere, instead of being forced to fantasize

[meganoth]

If I remember correctly the LCB was mainly a PvP item. I don't play PvP so I can't really speak if it was or still is valuable for that.

 

AFAIK unless you are in a group or friends with someone, his LCB will make any block in range have additional hitpoints. If you want to loot his base while he is offline these additional HPs can take a lot of time to break through. Much better to locate the LCB and target it first. Locating it is easy as you can hit surrounding blocks until you find ones with more hitpoints. On the other hand you could just surround it with lots and lots of steel blocks so I'm not so sure this is the real reason why it has so many HPs. Does anyone have a better idea?

 

It is perfectly possible that the HPs of the LCB are just a feature someone thought would be needed by PVP players but in reality nobody depends on it for base defense (anymore)

 

 

 

Edited April 28, 2021 by meganoth (see edit history)

[FA_Q2]

15 hours ago, Roland said:

I did not see the streams but I can tell you that it is coming and that calling it a flying turret is a bit generous...

Well, whatever its called.  The intel tree's new toy then 😛

41 minutes ago, bachgaman said:

Why would I change that if I just don't abuse it? Your answer is very fun and looks even more fun against the backdrop of reproaches about the developers' time and resources they will spend balancing the LCB recipe (open xml file and change few numbers and items ids)

 

Your answer is something in style of "if you don't like anything, don't play this game or download mods/make mods for yourself."

I'm talking about the balance of the game in its vanilla manifestation, not how I could forbid myself to abuse it.

 

I don't use cheat codes in singleplayer games because I understand that it will kill my interest in the game. It's the same here. But the more situations I have to make assumptions, I have to make an effort to refrain from using certain mechanics, the more artificial the fun from gameplay. Gradually, the gameplay turns from survival to coming up with difficulties for yourself

 

It resembles playing with toys in childhood, where you invent everything from start to end. But it's a computer game and it has the ability to challenge itself by immersing the player in the atmosphere, instead of being forced to fantasize

So, why are you advocating for its change then?  Apparently it does not effect you.  The game does not advertise or push you to abuse the block and anything you can do with 2 frames and a LCB I can do with 3 frames.  The large HP pool of the block is pretty irrelevant as they do not stack in your inventory and only one can be active at a time.  Wood frames are far more useful.

 

 

14 hours ago, MechanicalLens said:

 

*Flashbacks to Skyrim followers* 😬

God I hate Bethsada's followers lol.

[bachgaman]

45 minutes ago, FA_Q2 said:

So, why are you advocating for its change then?  Apparently it does not effect you.  The game does not advertise or push you to abuse the block and anything you can do with 2 frames and a LCB I can do with 3 frames.  The large HP pool of the block is pretty irrelevant as they do not stack in your inventory and only one can be active at a time.  Wood frames are far more useful.

Because other players are using? Because my friends join me and do it and other things breaking game? Because I go to YouTube and see that many players use any mechanic vulnerabilities to cope with difficulties? And I'm talking not only about LCB, but also about many other bad broken mechanics that I mentioned earlier in this and other threads
And because when I play this game, I have to keep in mind dozens of broken mechanics/tips/tricks that I don't want to use just because they're too strong, too unnatural and simplify the game too much. I don't like it

Due to the fact that supposedly three wooden blocks are better than two plus LCB, don't say nonsense, if it's easier for you to spend a mountain of resources and a lot of time to upgrade a wooden block every time you meet the horde, these are just problems with your microcontrol skill. Instantly put a block worthing 5 stones and 7000 durability is incalculably more efficient than improving a wooden frame for a long time. Most likely, at the beginning of the game, you won't be able to successfully use a wooden frame at insane nightmare difficulty

[MechanicalLens]

3 hours ago, bachgaman said:

Im agree that's why I'm writing about it. The game pushes us to use the shortcomings boringly and I ask to fix it. Besides, it's not hard.

I don't use it by the way, but I know a lot of people abuse

 

Then let me ask you, how is that the way other people play their game affect you if you avoid that "playstyle"? I hate cheese bases for instance, but I don't go around asking for them to be fixed. I just don't use them. If the devs fix them, they fix them, and if they don't, it isn't the end of the world.

[BFT2020]

10 minutes ago, bachgaman said:

Because other players are using? Because my friends join me and do it and other things breaking game? Because I go to YouTube and see that many players use any mechanic vulnerabilities to cope with difficulties? And I'm talking not only about LCB, but also about many other bad broken mechanics that I mentioned earlier in this and other threads
And because when I play this game, I have to keep in mind dozens of broken mechanics/tips/tricks that I don't want to use just because they're too strong, too unnatural and simplify the game too much. I don't like it

Okay to expand on this....how does other people doing this affect you?  I know it is an exploit, but I don't follow how they (or even YouTubers) doing it affects your gameplay.  I am not saying that TFP shouldn't fix exploits that break the gaming experience for everyone, but if it is something some people do that only affects their gameplay, why put forth the effort?

 

I see a lot of YouTubers building bases that make the zombies think they have a path and just end up in an endless loop where they fall down, get back up again, and repeat.  I find that exploits the game, but it doesn't affect my gameplay.  If that is how they want to play the game, great for them.  It doesn't affect me even though I think it is cheesy.

[bachgaman]

17 minutes ago, MechanicalLens said:

 

Then let me ask you, how is that the way other people play their game affect you if you avoid that "playstyle"? I hate cheese bases for instance, but I don't go around asking for them to be fixed. I just don't use them. If the devs fix them, they fix them, and if they don't, it isn't the end of the world.

I don't understand what you want from me. Are you trying to say that I shouldn't write about such shortcomings in the game? Even though fixing them costs nothing. I can write and I write. And I will. Sorry

 

There are people who will walk past @%$# next to their door, there are people who will try to remove it. I don't judge you, but people who reproach others for trying to fix something... what?

[MechanicalLens]

2 minutes ago, bachgaman said:

I don't understand what you want from me. Are you trying to say that I shouldn't write about such shortcomings in the game? Even though fixing them costs nothing. I can write and I write. And I will. Sorry

 

There are people who will walk past @%$# next to their door, there are people who will try to remove it. I don't judge you, but people who reproach others for trying to fix something... what?

 

The trick is not to punish the masses by focusing on the few. The silver and gold idea is a pretty shoddy one, sorry. Imagine if you're continuously moving LCB's between your base and your horde base. Without silver and gold, you wouldn't be able to do that. Perhaps as a compromise to all of this, the LCB could take 10+ minutes to craft. Either that, or nothing gets done with it. Live and let live if you can avoid it and all.

[bachgaman]

34 minutes ago, BFT2020 said:

Okay to expand on this....how does other people doing this affect you?  I know it is an exploit, but I don't follow how they (or even YouTubers) doing it affects your gameplay.  I am not saying that TFP shouldn't fix exploits that break the gaming experience for everyone, but if it is something some people do that only affects their gameplay, why put forth the effort?

 

I see a lot of YouTubers building bases that make the zombies think they have a path and just end up in an endless loop where they fall down, get back up again, and repeat.  I find that exploits the game, but it doesn't affect my gameplay.  If that is how they want to play the game, great for them.  It doesn't affect me even though I think it is cheesy.

You quoted a post in which I wrote how it affects me. Playing party, I regularly face some abuse from allies. It spoils my gaming experience. If the game didn't have so many holes to abuse, it would be really difficult. And now we're just creating the illusion of a challenge. If we agree with our comrades.
 

To understand whether I'm doing the right thing, I'm asking devs to fix imperfections, you need to elevate the situation to an extreme degree. Imagine that it would be impossible to turn off creative mode in the game. How would you like that?
 

The presence of such exploits is a creative mode at minimums. There's an exploit there and all the difficulties are devalued. And you jusr invent a challenge for yourself

 

Yes, I know about such buildings. And I know the solution to this problem, too. I described it above. Randomization of zombie pathfinding. The inclusion of suboptimal paths in their route rarely

7 minutes ago, MechanicalLens said:

 

The trick is not to punish the masses by focusing on the few. The silver and gold idea is a pretty shoddy one, sorry. Imagine if you're continuously moving LCB's between your base and your horde base. Without silver and gold, you wouldn't be able to do that. Perhaps as a compromise to all of this, the LCB could take 10+ minutes to craft. Either that, or nothing gets done with it. Live and let live if you can avoid it and all.

Why did you think you should always have the opportunity to wear LCB and put it free of charge wherever you please? Don't you think it's strange in survival? How does this intersect with the survival atmosphere?
Why are you putting the LCB on bloody horde base? It's pure abuse. Looks like LCB designed to create protection from other players, not from zombies

[MechanicalLens]

9 minutes ago, bachgaman said:

Why are you putting the LCB on bloody horde base? It's pure abuse. Looks like LCB designed to create protection from other players, not from zombies

 

The LCB is useless in a horde base unless you're moving traps or workstations around.

[bachgaman]

3 minutes ago, MechanicalLens said:

 

The LCB is useless in a horde base unless you're moving traps or workstations around.

So demand the ability to remove your devices without LCB instead of protecting a poorly functioning crutch that opens up a lot of abuse and is wasting your time

 

And frankly, I don't know why you need to move traps while defending against a horde. There may be reasons, but that sounds strange

 

If you want to move them during construction, I see no reason to have a cost for wrong decisions. Place the LCB wisely, not attack those who are trying to make the game better. After all, traps are quite cheap for crafting

[MechanicalLens]

9 minutes ago, bachgaman said:

So demand the ability to remove your devices without LCB instead of protecting a poorly functioning crutch that opens up a lot of abuse and is wasting your time

 

And frankly, I don't know why you need to move traps while defending against a horde. There may be reasons, but that sounds strange

 

If you want to move them during construction, I see no reason to have a cost for wrong decisions. Place the LCB wisely, not attack those who are trying to make the game better. After all, traps are quite cheap for crafting

 

I usually move traps after further brainstorming. (Ex. Perhaps my blade traps should be moved to there instead of here, or I should move my tripwire posts a block further away from the passageway because they were destroyed last horde because of cop explosions.)

 

Regardless of how this is tackled, going on a side branch here, I want uniformity. There are plenty of electrical devices that you can pick up simply by pressing "E". Instead, I think that holding down "E" and selecting an option to pick up the device would be a much more elegant solution. That would save some headaches of the player trying to pick up their powered drawbridge or powered vault door accidentally. @faatal Could this be considered as a possible change? (Quoting you since I honestly have no idea who is in charge of LCB functionality.)

 

Also, I don't demand anything. You know why? You never get anywhere with demands, not in game development. Healthy, civil discussion is a far better alternative.

Edited April 28, 2021 by MechanicalLens (see edit history)

[meilodasreh]

I want TFP to remove the motorcycle from the game.

Other people abuse it to move around very fast.

I don't like it, I am pedestrian playstyle.

I can't stand my party allies keep abusing motorcycle-hole in the game and being faster than me.

I Have even seen many youtubers abuse game by motorcycling around.

Don't tell me I can fix speed via xml.

I don't want to fix it.

I want it to be fixed in general.

I...what am I even talking about?🙊

[Roland]

I'd rather @faatal makes it so zombies attack the weaker of the two blocks in front of them rather than hitting the top block first and then the bottom block second no matter what. I assume the exploit is to place a frame then the LCB and then another frame on top of that? They spend their time trying to break the LCB until it is gone before trying to hit the frame beneath?

 

My question is: Don't the zombie pile up on top of each other and destroy you anyway? I mean you claimed ANY wandering horde could be defeated. Plus, can't you just nerdpole to the top of a building and be safe? Even if they changed the LCB somehow you could still get on a nearby roof and pick off the zombies.

Edited April 28, 2021 by Roland (see edit history)

[meilodasreh]

6 minutes ago, Roland said:

I'd rather @faatal makes it so zombies attack the weaker of the two blocks in front of them rather than hitting the top block first and then the bottom block second no matter what. I assume the exploit is to place a frame then the LCB and then another frame on top of that? They spend their time trying to break the LCB until it is gone before trying to hit the frame beneath.

 

My question is: Don't the zombie pile up on top of each other and destroy you anyway? I mean you claimed ANY wandering horde could be defeated. Plus, can't you just nerdpole to the top of a building and be safe? Even if they changed the LCB somehow you could still get on a nearby roof and pick off the zombies.

or what about some Zeds even don't bother tracking the player but just rage around knocking down random blocks all the time...some kind of perma-rage-mode instead of that just-some-seconds-stuff

 

edit:

I also don't get the point of that "LCB-frame-stack exploit thingy".

Spiders would jump right into your face, cops puking, vultures,...can't call that stack a safe place for long.

Edited April 28, 2021 by meilodasreh (see edit history)

[bachgaman]

5 minutes ago, Roland said:

I'd rather @faatal makes it so zombies attack the weaker of the two blocks in front of them rather than hitting the top block first and then the bottom block second no matter what. I assume the exploit is to place a frame then the LCB and then another frame on top of that? They spend their time trying to break the LCB until it is gone before trying to hit the frame beneath.

 

My question is: Don't the zombie pile up on top of each other and destroy you anyway? I mean you claimed ANY wandering horde could be defeated. Plus, can't you just nerdpole to the top of a building and be safe? Even if they changed the LCB somehow you could still get on a nearby roof and pick off the zombies.

You described good solutions, but I don't even undertake to voice such things because I'm thrown tomatoes for offering to nerf the broken LCB by changing its crafting or strength. These changes are made in seconds, but people still yell that developers shouldn't waste time and resources on such fixes

And don't pick on the words. You won't meet spiders or cops at the beginning of the game. And the fact that they climb on each other, it was not for nothing that I mentioned two wooden blocks, not one

9 minutes ago, meilodasreh said:

I also don't get the point of that "LCB-frame-stack exploit thingy".

Spiders would jump right into your face, cops puking, vultures,...can't call that stack a safe place for long.

It's about starting the game, by the time spiders and cops appear, you own an arsenal

[meilodasreh]

4 minutes ago, bachgaman said:

You described good solutions, but I don't even undertake to voice such things because I'm thrown tomatoes for offering to nerf the broken LCB by changing its crafting or strength. These changes are made in seconds, but people still yell that developers shouldn't waste time and resources on such fixes

And don't pick on the words. You won't meet spiders or cops at the beginning of the game. And the fact that they climb on each other, it was not for nothing that I mentioned two wooden blocks, not one

It's about starting the game, by the time spiders and cops appear, you own an arsenal

Ok point goes to you, I really missed that it was all about just the very start of the game.

 

Btw, you are not thrown tomatoes at, and you are not disliked.

Other people are not of your opinion, and when they say so, you are offended, as I can see.

Just read the answers carefully, noone said "this is a bad/stupid idea" or anything. 

It's just facts against your opinion, nothing personal there.

I can see you desperately want your suggested change being implemented, that's ok,

but if it isn't considered a "must" by others, than it should be ok for you too.

[bachgaman]

5 minutes ago, meilodasreh said:

Ok point goes to you, I really missed that it was all about just the very start of the game.

 

Btw, you are not thrown tomatoes at, and you are not disliked.

Other people are not of your opinion, and when they say so, you are offended, as I can see.

Just read the answers carefully, noone said "this is a bad/stupid idea" or anything. 

It's just facts against your opinion, nothing personal there.

I can see you desperately want your suggested change being implemented, that's ok,

but if it isn't considered a "must" by others, than it should be ok for you too.

 

29 minutes ago, meilodasreh said:

I want TFP to remove the motorcycle from the game.

Other people abuse it to move around very fast.

I don't like it, I am pedestrian playstyle.

I can't stand my party allies keep abusing motorcycle-hole in the game and being faster than me.

I Have even seen many youtubers abuse game by motorcycling around.

Don't tell me I can fix speed via xml.

I don't want to fix it.

I want it to be fixed in general.

I...what am I even talking about?🙊

Nice just other opinion

It's very convenient to ridicule any offer of fixes of even the most obvious holes in the balance sheet and offer nothing in turn. Just sitting and wiping out people who are trying to help make better. Fine fellow

[meilodasreh]

1 minute ago, bachgaman said:

 

Nice just other opinion

It's very convenient to ridicule any offer of fixes of even the most obvious holes in the balance sheet and offer nothing in turn. Just sitting and wiping out people who are trying to help make better. Fine fellow

Dude, just let go.

It is you who is using aggressive phrases like "it is stupid to"..."don't tell nonsense" in communication with others,

so don't be @%$#ed when I hit you with some sarcasm, take it as you deliver.😉

 

I am sorry and I will be nice from now.

 

Believe me, I see you have a point there. 

And maybe it even will be fixed.

Well at least you might have drawn the devs attention to it by defending your point so hard...seems to have become a top theme around here 😜

[bachgaman]

4 minutes ago, meilodasreh said:

t is you who is using aggressive phrases like "it is stupid to"..."don't tell nonsense" in communication with others,

If I write this, I argue strongly. You're just spraying bile. Don't you see the difference? If a man writes that a wooden frame is better than an LCB when meeting a horde, isn't that nonsense? That's nonsense. And I explained why. I wrote it as part of the discussion. You wrote this as part of an attempt to insult and hurt. So it's not for you to read notations on how to be polite in trying to justify your barren useless toxicity

[meilodasreh]

1 minute ago, bachgaman said:

If I write this, I argue strongly. You're just spraying bile. Don't you see the difference? If a man writes that a wooden frame is better than an LCB when meeting a horde, isn't that nonsense? That's nonsense. And I explained why. I wrote it as part of the discussion. You wrote this as part of an attempt to insult and hurt. So it's not for you to read notations on how to be polite in trying to justify your barren useless toxicity

Really, I didn't want to be mean. Thats why I used the "speak no evil monkey" emoji btw.

I make myself clear once again: I am sorry! 

Good now?