The AI need to evolve in order for this game to survive.

[Demandred1957]

23 minutes ago, alanea said:

 

are you surprised ? bloodmoon is major game feature  gost they even named game  and build it around it 

thats  why they fight against any way to avoid it by glitching cheesing

whats  wron

 

difficulty slider is quite wide  to both sides  normal is actually noob friendly ..  even begginers  can handle  both normal gameplay and blood moons  if they learn few basics / tips  .. sure they can die but thats part of game   7days used to be way harder     if its too hard for you  decrease difficulty ... iam sure you can handle  7 day hordes  with wooden club in open terrain at lowest one

 

vehicles allowed you to skip whole bloodmoon with  0 effort thats incanely overpowered = they needed to deal with that you met vultures and learned that vehicles are big nope during blood moon = vultures served its purpose

 

sure they could completely disable use of vehicles .... or kick you out instantly when you try to use them ... or nerf them so zombies can catch you  but they decided to add vultures as simple solution

 

if  something killing game  its constant  difficulty decrease a17 made game joke   a18 even worse 

- everyone swim in ammo making melee weapons obsolete became  who needs to save ammo with 10k reserve in car

- death is far less punishing than  when you needed  alot high quality food to counter permanent hp loss after every death

- guns are common  in past we prayed for lowest quality pistol and few bullets in toilet

- zombies no longer destroy bases unless you do noob mistake and block all entrances

- blood moon effectively ends with death .. as zombies stop tracking you unless you run to them

(yeah i know they trying to handle some of those with a19)

 

but  guys  its SURVIVAL game

survive  or  die .. die again ... cry  ... die  again and deal finally with challenge thats whole point  instead  screaming around

 

"omg i cant drive around horde on  bike and laught to pointless horde"

"omg iam not  safe from horde after buying  40 concrete mixes"

"omg i cant shot every single zombie due to lack of ammo .. i have to  1-2 shot slow zombies with club  .... fix it"

"omg no ak during first week = unplayable"

 

if i should name largest issue with hordes .. its the fact all zombies behave same  nothing else  like

- spiders climbing random part of base again instead running  with everything else

- random zombie chosing shortest way  ignoring blocks

- random features for  zombies  = 5%  nurses can jump  1 block higher  5%  can jump two block far instead one 5% headless immune to headshots 5% immune to stagger 5% with doubled/trippled  hp  5% immune to electrical damage 5%   ocasionally charge/jump  3-4 blocks

- buff up bleed and infection rate for birds again early a17 was insane a18  bultures are just joke

 

 

Vultures are just broken now. It's a cheap lazy cop out by tfp's because they are butt hurt that some people like to just run away. I don't run away, but if I need too the option should be open. They are vehicles after all. And it takes quite a bit of work to get even the minibike in early game, unless you luck out and find blueprints, which now has been nerf'd too. So no, running away in a vehicle is not OP in the least, it was about the only touch of realism in the game, and should be a reward for spec'ing into INT to be able to build them.

[RipClaw]

1 hour ago, alanea said:

 

are you surprised ? bloodmoon is major game feature  gost they even named game  and build it around it 

thats  why they fight against any way to avoid it by glitching cheesing

whats  wron

 

difficulty slider is quite wide  to both sides  normal is actually noob friendly ..  even begginers  can handle  both normal gameplay and blood moons  if they learn few basics / tips  .. sure they can die but thats part of game   7days used to be way harder     if its too hard for you  decrease difficulty ... iam sure you can handle  7 day hordes  with wooden club in open terrain at lowest one

 

vehicles allowed you to skip whole bloodmoon with  0 effort thats incanely overpowered = they needed to deal with that you met vultures and learned that vehicles are big nope during blood moon = vultures served its purpose

For one thing, you can disable the Horde and some players do that and they like it.

 

On the other hand there are situations where it is legitimate to avoid the Horde.

When you play on a server the time stops when the last one logs out. And starts again when someone logs in. If the last one has logged out shortly before the horde then the player who logs in is thrown into the middle of the horde and has no time for preparations.

 

I honestly don't understand why some players want to force their way of playing on others. Saying "you have to play like me and you have to like it" is a very selfish attitude.

 

[BigRedBenYT]

The AI improves every update it seems. Wedges no longer work, for instance. All survival crafting games have AI exploits in some form or another. Always have, always will. Fun pimps won't be revolutionizing artificial intelligence in the video game industry, nor should they. They can, and do, improve it. What baffles me most is how much this bothers people when it in no way affects how you choose to play yourself. My horde base is two layers of walls with spikes between them right now, no one is forcing you or me to build a cheese base. And as far as content creators making vids about exploits goes, vote with your view time, or the dislike button. To reply to the idea presented in your title, this game isn't having trouble surviving. They beat their consecutive players record the day A19 became available. They are up nearly twice as many players as this time last year. Calm down, play the game how you want to play it,  don't worry about how others are playing, and have fun.

[warmer]

If you feel the AI is broken because you can make impossible to create IRL structures that exploit the AI, I have news for you...
 

You are the one breaking immersion. Sure you can make a cheese base that exploits AI, but what kind of self indulgent lazy person are you to play a game and purposely go out of your way to create something that wouldn't/couldn't exist in IRL just to cheese the AI?

There is no joy or challenge in that. If that is your play style, I don't know how to please you. If you want a challenge, make a possible to create in IRL structure and face a horde. The game isn't too easy, you are just exploiting loop holes and @%$*#!ing about it. lol

[alanea]

5 hours ago, RipClaw said:

For one thing, you can disable the Horde and some players do that and they like it.

 

On the other hand there are situations where it is legitimate to avoid the Horde.

When you play on a server the time stops when the last one logs out. And starts again when someone logs in. If the last one has logged out shortly before the horde then the player who logs in is thrown into the middle of the horde and has no time for preparations.

 

I honestly don't understand why some players want to force their way of playing on others. Saying "you have to play like me and you have to like it" is a very selfish attitude.

 

yeah small percent of people really disable hordes ...  similar amount of them disable all zombies dont ask me why .... they remove  90% gameplay this way  if you remember few modules back .. then you know  horde couldnt be disabled originally but some people  cried quite hard about it  so funny pimps said "  sure why not"

 

but why the hell  should everyone be able to ignore hordes - major game feature with few wood  blocks  or bicycle ... especially in multiplayer

 

not gonna defend multiplayer .. its definitely clumsy and every game with such events suffer from this but if horde catch you .. dont play it ..   place bedroll on safe spot put  8  wood frames as wall around  ...  boom  you are immortal once you die  zombies wont track you  unless they see you so as long as you stand on bedroll you are safe

plan B :  1) put items in chest  2) afk  for  10 min on your bedroll in middle of nothing

plan  log off next to your always prepared base

6 hours ago, Demandred1957 said:

Vultures are just broken now. It's a cheap lazy cop out by tfp's because they are butt hurt that some people like to just run away. I don't run away, but if I need too the option should be open. They are vehicles after all. And it takes quite a bit of work to get even the minibike in early game, unless you luck out and find blueprints, which now has been nerf'd too. So no, running away in a vehicle is not OP in the least, it was about the only touch of realism in the game, and should be a reward for spec'ing into INT to be able to build them.

you dont even need minibike  you can outrun horde zombies on bicycle if you switch speeding  / gaining stamina correctly  oh look i have bicycle ... i won game  iam immortal to horde  or " day 1: oh look i have   500  wood  i can make ramp and glitch horde  and laught .. wait  vultures can get me ... nevermind i need 10 more wood frames"

 

oh god dont even start with int ... ever heard about  3  strongest /most important perks in game ?  lucky looter  better barter advanced engineering

int is strongest tree by far .... they put vehicles there just because they dont fit anywhere else

 

yeah vultures are cheap  solution but it works  .... and devs clearly decided  vehicles are easy to get  and shouldt  make horde complely irrelevant .. since vehicles are no longer rare rng based endgame stuff like  a16 one  now you can get bicycle eeasily before first horde

[NyLocke]

Hello everyone. Let me just begin my response by saying, respectfully, OP's argument is so ridiculous it's borderline parody. So mind-numbingly ridiculous in fact that I felt I needed to get up from my bed, power on my PC, create my account, and all because I would hate for the devs to see his comment and think for a second that the AI needs to be tuned in that direction or that the majority of players feel the same way as OP; which thankfully, judging by the responses, they do not. If nothing else, it needs to go in the opposite direction.

 

The tl;dr of my comment is basically Gaffers comment, which I will paraphrase thusly: if you think the game is too easy because people find "creative" ways to survive Bloodmoons, then do your own thing and play the game how you think the devs would want you to. Don't ruin it for other people.

 

I love this game so much that I spent a small fortune building a PC just so I could play it. I haven't been playing it long (since alpha 18, but I've been watching it on Youtube since alpha 14), but one thing that consistently annoys me is something that others in this thread have mentioned: the zombies are way too OP in some cases. Which is why I couldn't believe this thread was a thing. I'm supposed to be going up against the living dead, yet it feels more like I'm going up against zombie Captain Americas. It's very off-putting to see just how resilient and omnipotent the zombies are in the game. My biggest gripes with the AI are:

 

• As someone said before, they break through stone blocks like they were made of styrofoam (despite the time and effort it takes to craft them),
• they fall from several stories high, get up and chase you full speed (yet if I jump an inch too high off the ground I break my leg and suffer a 30-minute "time out" [which btw the whole sprained/broken leg system as it is, is really dumb imo]),
• they can be standing 10 feet away from you and somehow still manage to smack you, but if you want to damage them with a melee weapon you have to practically be kissing them on the mouth to register a hit (hitboxes really need to be rebalanced in this regard)

They are ZOMBIES for Christ's sake! The living dead. This games representation of zombies is very unrealistic. They shouldn't be able to fall from such distances with no consequences. In fact, now that I think about it, those 3 complaints I stated above wouldn't bother me one bit if the zombies suffered the physics of their actions the way we have to, at least to some extent (the whole "zombie bashing through the door and falling over" mechanic is cute). I really love this game, and I hope that in future alphas the zombies start behaving more like zombies. Want to maintain difficulty after proper balancing? Do like someone else suggested and increase the numbers. Historically that has ALWAYS been deadliness of zombie lore. And as far as the whole cheesing thing goes, it's a sandbox game, among other things. The sandbox aspect was the main appeal for me. I hope that it never gets to the point where, with their patches, they tell you what kind of things you can and can't build to enjoy the game.

 

Sorry guys for the super long post. My respect and apologies for anyone who made it to the end. This game is really awesome. Possibly the funnest game I've ever played, and I haven't been playing it long. I would hate for it to go the way of other games and be nerfed into oblivion. See you guys in the apocalypse.

[Roland]

If you refuse to build an underground highway then don't complain that you can't drive your vehicles. Elon Musk must know how vultures will be in the future....

[Neko92]

Zombies Technically should not even bother destroying buildings and especially the weak class zombies should not even put a dent into stone or stronger material almost all shows and movies show that. there are some exceptions like the resident evil advance zombies (not the grunts though it they do almost no damage) plus the ai is just fine is literally the law of nature to fine the path of least resistance humans, animals, plants, water, space even. Also the vulture always seeked they maked it start attacking the roofs because people could hide under it and not worry.  Want zombies to rip apart base increases block damage to 300% at that point you might as well call them one punch man, zombies move to slow adjust speed to nightmare even during the day then they will be world war z zombies, zombies dont have enough life change the difficulty to nightmare(or highest) all that's left is the number sadly you cant have 100+ zombies at one time. The only suggestion to ai I recommend is that even on hoard night when using loud weapons you continue to draw other zombies attention even into the day time until you go quiet(let the are calm down) I know from experience by purposely collapsing a building and pulling out a loud weapon is effectively signing your death(once you get them started) unless you flee the area because wave after wave of zombies come until you let the area calm down

[RipClaw]

6 hours ago, alanea said:

yeah small percent of people really disable hordes ...  similar amount of them disable all zombies dont ask me why .... they remove  90% gameplay this way  if you remember few modules back .. then you know  horde couldnt be disabled originally but some people  cried quite hard about it  so funny pimps said "  sure why not"

The reason why players wanted the option to disable the horde was because the zombies always destroyed their bases. And these are players who prefer to loot rather than gather resources to repair their base each week. That's also the reason why more cheese bases are used since Alpha 17.

 

In Alpha 15 and Alpha 16, players who didn't want to fight the horde could spend the night in their underground bunker. This is also no longer possible since Alpha 17.

As for the players who disable the zombies, they enjoy the "last man on earth" feeling and are perhaps more interested in building than fighting.

6 hours ago, alanea said:

but why the hell  should everyone be able to ignore hordes - major game feature with few wood  blocks  or bicycle ... especially in multiplayer

Why shouldn't they be able to ignore the horde? It's like those cheese bases. You have the option to use them or not. And players should also have the option to ignore the horde or not.

 

We owe this supersonic vulture to a few players who cried quite hard on the forums a few months ago that if you can ignore the horde, it will destroy their immersion.

6 hours ago, alanea said:

not gonna defend multiplayer .. its definitely clumsy and every game with such events suffer from this but if horde catch you .. dont play it ..   place bedroll on safe spot put  8  wood frames as wall around  ...  boom  you are immortal once you die  zombies wont track you  unless they see you so as long as you stand on bedroll you are safe

plan B :  1) put items in chest  2) afk  for  10 min on your bedroll in middle of nothing

plan  log off next to your always prepared base

I play single player but I know players who play multiplayer. Therefore it is important for me that the game works for both groups of players. I can disable the horde or fast forward the time. Multiplayer players don't have these options unless they are admin.

 

Originally it was said that the zombies should run into your vehicle and you should have to dodge them. This seemed to be a good middle way between "ignoring the Horde without effort" and "forcing the player to fight the Horde in his base". Well, apparently the Fun Pimps decided to go more in the latter direction.

 

By the way, I also know players who fought the Horde in the streets on foot. They won't be able to do that without a roof over their heads anymore.
 

[alanea]

6 hours ago, NyLocke said:

it needs to go in the opposite direction.

Actually zombie behavior  post a19  is  far better than before

because you clearly forgot  how game looked before a 17  or didnt played it at all

 enter city  shot in  air  few  min later  1/2  houses collapse   1/2  survive with  4-5  holes on  closest side to you  they used to bash wall regardless of the fact there is hole 2  blocks away and sometimes  they bashed wall even if you beaten them from behind with club

in a17  they destroy just doors and 1/2  stay hidden inside

 

90%  bases used to be at top or bottom  of map because it was so easy to dodge  blood  moon horde ..  that no one ever bothered  preparing for it .... why if all you need is to spend   1-2  ingame hours digging to bedrock  ... and leave hole  filled with single wood frame

then do your own thing and play the game how you think the devs would want you to. Don't ruin it for

or maybe we should leave game as survival instead turning it closer  to my little pony building game whenever someone die in zombie aspocalypse and those crybabies should use sliders to make game toddle friendly without bothering rest?

 

I'm supposed to be going up
 against the living dead, yet it feels more like I'm going up against zombie Captain Americas. It's very off-putting to see just how resilient
 and omnipotent the zombies are in the game. My biggest gripes with the AI are:

a17 significantly buffed players weakened zombies and gave us nearly unlimited ammo  extremely profitable traders  .. removed quality decay on every used item added more hp .. removed  death penalty  .. game basically turned from "  day  20 aim carefully  ammo is scarce  kill what you can with melee or sneak around to " first week  AK47  first person shooter"

a18  buffed armor tools and weapons even more merfed traders a bit

a19  they clearly realized they went too far .. and nerfed loot and ammo significantly

you probably play game quite wrong ... if you even consider it being hard    if you take  tier 4-5 modded steel fireaxe (tool not weapon lol so no damage perks) + light armor and go kill  freaking  500 kg  zombie bear on normal difficulty,,,, result ?   bear is down within few hits he gives you few 10-15 damage bites from your 150-200 so you have to pop single common painkillers ... dance inr ain and go  complain on forum about hard game btw did i mention we have  50%  to explode any head onhit ?  even bears irradiated wights or cops ?  even with smg ?

 

As someone said before, they break through stone blocks like they were made of styrofoam

realistic ?  nope ... must  ? definitely what exactly is your idea ...  wooden  door keeping you safe several hours?  concrete block whole night ?  week ?  eternity ?   blood moon  hopelessly scratching  2   block concrete pillar you standing on for whole night? pillar made from  less than 200 stones?  3  hits with pickaxe to   boulder on surface?  yeah  survival game ...:D there can be advanced materials sure that take longer to destroy  but if you make concrete wall .... even blood moon horde spend around  10%  bloodmoon making single hole into it and concrete is sadly extremely simple to make in this game 3 stones =  1 concrete  mix ... meaning mid game  you can mine thousands  or tens of  thousands of concrete mix  over night and yes stones dont have any other use  after you move away from stone tools 

basically no material can be  100% safe from zombies to keep zombies relevant (9 blocks of anything indestructible makes you completely untouchable)  .. sure give me ultra expensive block to make and i have no problem  if it have several times higher durability and  can hold horde half night  but concrete isnt much harder to make that wooden blocks  once you get/find cement mixer

hey fall from several stories high, get up and chase you full speed (yet if I jump an inch too high off the ground I break my leg and
suffer a 30-minute

yes and zombies can get arm / leg shot off  or take shotgun hit and keep running ..  can you ?  generally zombies dont feel pain  sprained  or broken single bone actually dont make you  unable to  walk .. pain does zombies should be  definitely more resistant to damage  than living creature  but falls are valid complain .. and implemented in a19 where  zombies falling from "reasonable heigh"  fall on floor or  generally ragdoll in different ways

they can be standing 10 feet away from you and somehow still manage to smack you, but if you want to damage them with a melee weapon you
 have to practically be kissing them on the mouth to register a hit

hmmmm killed  over 80k zombies during  a18 and lets say 1/3 with melee weapons as i tested and compared them and i can tell you i never got hit by slow zombie unless i got stuck by some chair  inside buildings ... zombies never  magically hit you on long range and they have range 2  only weapons with same range ( but unable to hit if you moving(they need to get alot closer  make whole smash animation  and still   have you in range on end )  are  hunting knife and  knuckles everything else have  2,3- 3,2 range

They are ZOMBIES for Christ's sake! The living dead. This games representation of zombies is very unrealistic.

actually completely wrong  theres like  50+  types of zombies  with different features  in various movies  books check for example https://sites.dehumanizer.com/zombietypes/

dont take slow harmless  dumb bags of meat from walking dead as canon ... zombies like that wouldnt cause apocalypse ... ever those are just  movie training dummy / shooter tatget for fans  many variants of zombies are far stronger faster  or  smarter than humans 

another list of runners : World War Z , Dawn of the Dead (2004), 28 Days Later, REC 2,Left 4 Dead, Day Z, Zombieland, Z Nation,Doom,Fallout,Resident Evil,Witcher,Tomb Raider and many others.

zombies dont exist   ... everything thats made up by people have thousands of variants you cant consider one correct and  push it everywhere

sure .. no one is telling you how to play game ... thats why you have slider to modify what you dislike

game is clasified as Action , Adventure, RPG, Simulation, Strategy    so basically fight + explore+levelup+immerse+plan   and pointless for genre  (Early Access  Indie)

not rly sandbox  tycoon  creative   yes you have possibility  to  7 days into zombieless  creepy minecraft .... but if you ride donkey instead horse dont try to  persuade others into seeing it as horse

 

[alanea]

5 hours ago, Neko92 said:

Zombies Technically should not even bother destroying buildings and especially the weak class zombies should not even put a dent into stone or stronger material almost all shows and movies show that.

as i told in previous quote .. with many sources ..  its totally wrong  idea of zombies based on movie /series or two .. overall  half zombies is stupid  slow  harmless ...  and half faster smarter or stronger than human

also gameplay wise if  zombies cannot hurt concrete ... you have immortal blocks  by day  1-3 depending on luck and won game already

 

4 hours ago, RipClaw said:

The reason why players wanted the option to disable the horde was because the zombies always destroyed their bases. And these are players who prefer to loot rather than gather resources to repair their base each week. That's also the reason why more cheese bases are used since Alpha 17.

In Alpha 15 and Alpha 16, players who didn't want to fight the horde could spend the night in their underground bunker. This is also no longer possible since Alpha 17.

We owe this supersonic vulture to a few players who cried quite hard on the forums a few months ago that if you can ignore the horde, it will destroy their immersion.

I play single player but I know players who play multiplayer. Therefore it is important for me that the game works for both groups of players. I can disable the horde or fast forward the time. Multiplayer players don't have these options unless they are admin.

exactly  zombies destroyed everything  in they way withou pathing around  even if you wasnt inside making  ground floor  basically unusable because you spend a while in mine and return to  10  holes and destroyed chests / workbenches whatever fromr andomly walking horde this was solved by advanced ai .... if  zombies dont detect you they simply walk around  ... if they detect you and you have entrance they can use =  they will walk through it and die ond defenses you set up or bash  door only  then chase you  the only zombie that actually attack something valuable  intentionally is  screamer going after campfire / forge( the thing that pissed her off and spawned her)

so bases outside are possible and safe ....  just because the a17 ai change

for multiplayer ... look game should be fair  those who dislike  hordes can play on server with very weak or disabled hordes ...  those  who  dont  like challenges ,,, should have equal rules why should someone  spend lot of work  into building perfectly defendable base ... and then watch how useless all his work is  when next to him some  noob who seen it on youtube build base flying in air  from wood frames within  5 minutes  thats  100%  impenetrable  thats why such bugs need to be eliminated /limited as far as possible in name of fair play (apart of the fact flying  bases/hordes running in circles make game look like poorly coded/unfinished/bugged trash

 those  problems with ai are definitely worth  looking on .. +  you think it doesnt happen unless you build base for that ? nope it happens even in poi ... where zombies often try to reach you by ways they cant because they dont recognize walkable blocks corectly ... then run confused in circles  .. then dig when you shot them from above .....  nah  ai is flawed everywhere ... those bases just abuse it   .. and its understandable .... keep in mind current ai was created in a 17  ..so like " 1.9 mod ago) they will definitely need to solve lot of ai issues in next few alphas

 

[Zerfall2142]

Play the game the way you want to. It's a game, we play games to have fun or to get some excitement.

 

Stop complaining about people cheesing mechanics or not playing the way YOU want them to.

(To the OP of the thread: Kim Jong-un just called, he wants advice on how to be a more controlling dictator)

 

Honestly I'm sick of all the whiners complaining and then TFP running around to appease the snowflakes.

(Side note: I've been playing since A7.8. Anyone remember the days when a solid cobblestone castle became completely obsolete when spider zombies got introduced?)

 

Once the game got a few years in and people started finding exploits and others whined it became a game of cat and mouse. With creative thinking players being the mouse and snowflakes& TFP being the cat

 

Fall traps? Nah too OP, TFP plz nerf. So now zombies are supernatural beings that can survive terminal velocity. Leading to cheese wedge moats. (Arguably nerfing realism and leading to less realistic bases)

 

Zombies took to long destroying a well built base? No problem, give them a hive mind that they all attack the weakest point. (Leading to players finding a way to cheese the patting ai)

 

Having too much fun building a base? OP, nerf. TFP added in wandering hordes that just happen to have a straight path over your incomplete base

 

Triple thick wall reinforced concrete? Too OP. TFP: oh now zombie appendages do more damage the more zombies there are. (Honestly why/how can 5 regular zombies break through 3 meters of solid concrete in a few minutes?)

 

The point I'm getting to is there is a constant race between people finding exploits and snowflakes complaining about them (and then TFP changing core game mechanics to nerf/make people play a certain way.)

 

Honestly I was happy before sleepers would respawn inside a poi I had just cleared, before a 5 zombie bear train hits my horde base 3 minutes before a blood moon horde starts. I was happy before zombies dug tunnels through straight solid rock into my backup bunker right after my horde base fell. I was happy with my old cobblestone castle that I'd have to defend against multiple breaches.

 

Now? You almost have to build a exploit base just to survive past your 4th or 5th blood moon horde. Meaning I can't play the game the way that it's fun for me anymore (or in anyway realistic for that matter)

 

[RipClaw]

1 hour ago, alanea said:

exactly  zombies destroyed everything  in they way withou pathing around  even if you wasnt inside making  ground floor  basically unusable because you spend a while in mine and return to  10  holes and destroyed chests / workbenches whatever fromr andomly walking horde this was solved by advanced ai .... if  zombies dont detect you they simply walk around  ... if they detect you and you have entrance they can use =  they will walk through it and die ond defenses you set up or bash  door only  then chase you  the only zombie that actually attack something valuable  intentionally is  screamer going after campfire / forge( the thing that pissed her off and spawned her)

so bases outside are possible and safe ....  just because the a17 ai change

With the AI change came also a higher block damage and the Area Destruction Mode which is activated if they don't find a way to the player.

 

The new AI is good but the higher block damage and the Area Destruction Mode has caused problems for players who like classic bases where you shoot the zombies from above. And they didn't want to repair their base every week.

 

I don't mind the new AI. I use the zombies' intelligence for my own purposes by building funnel bases. Therefore my bases usually take only little damage because I don't rely on walls but use traps.
 

1 hour ago, alanea said:

for multiplayer ... look game should be fair  those who dislike  hordes can play on server with very weak or disabled hordes ...  those  who  dont  like challenges ,,, should have equal rules why should someone  spend lot of work  into building perfectly defendable base ... and then watch how useless all his work is  when next to him some  noob who seen it on youtube build base flying in air  from wood frames within  5 minutes  thats  100%  impenetrable  thats why such bugs need to be eliminated /limited as far as possible in name of fair play (apart of the fact flying  bases/hordes running in circles make game look like poorly coded/unfinished/bugged trash

This only bothers you if you don't like building bases or if you have a strong competitive spirit in general.

 

Neither of these things apply to me. I love building bases and I don't care what others do. I also don't see it as a challenge to shoot zombies. I find it rather boring.

 

My personal challenge is to build bases with a specific goals in mind. Be it to build a base where I can take a nap during the horde or a base with minimal resource consumption or one that is as large / small as possible.

 

The change in the vultures and the fact that they attack players trying to avoid the horde has nothing to do with pathing, by the way. It's just a punishment for the players who try to avoid the horde. I fight the horde but I don't mind if others don't. Everyone should play as he sees fit. That's why I don't like it when players think they can tell others how to play.
 

[sadpickle]

I think it would be interesting if zombies were permanent (did not despawn) and were generally more dangerous in combat, but dumber. They shouldn't be able to pathfind well. If you break LOS and stay quiet they should have trouble finding you, lose interest and wander around but still be in the area, so if you make noise or emerge they are on you again. This provides motive to make a secure base (one that breaks LOS), to fortify entrances, and to have fallbacks and other methods out. Because building a base is so resource intensive and zombies are wrecking balls, and because the Bloodmoon makes it impossible to hide, the meta encourages cheesing by either making it impossible for them to wreck your base, or simply relocating for the Bloodmoon to somewhere with no value (a POI with a 2nd floor for instance). This is especially true in single player when time management (looting, gathering, and building) in the first 7 days is critical.

 

tl;dr: zombies are too smart, they wreck fortifications quickly and on bloodmoon you simply cannot avoid them without cheesing. I'm considering just making them really dangerous to melee, dropping their block damage and disabling the bloodmoon entirely, but it's an imperfect solution.

[Sawth77]

While i think i'm being really obvious, if the problem of zombies battering down your walls is a problem....why not just turn down the block damage?  I completely agree a zombie crushing concrete in a couple of hits is silly, so i reduce their block damage down to 50 (or sometimes 25) percent.   This, of course, doesn't stop them from getting in if you don't deal with the situation, but toning down the crazy levels of damage they can do is a relatively easy thing to do.
 

[sadpickle]

2 hours ago, Sawth77 said:

While i think i'm being really obvious, if the problem of zombies battering down your walls is a problem....why not just turn down the block damage?  I completely agree a zombie crushing concrete in a couple of hits is silly, so i reduce their block damage down to 50 (or sometimes 25) percent.   This, of course, doesn't stop them from getting in if you don't deal with the situation, but toning down the crazy levels of damage they can do is a relatively easy thing to do.

I do that, but what I'd really like to see is some kind of damage modifier for stone, concrete and steel. Wood should be fairly wreckable, whereas stone is less so. Concrete and steel should be almost impossible to claw through, and require explosives or super ferals to break through. I feel like that opens up tactical possibilities. Just lowering damage feels like too much of a nerf.

[NyLocke]

24 minutes ago, sadpickle said:

I do that, but what I'd really like to see is some kind of damage modifier for stone, concrete and steel. Wood should be fairly wreckable, whereas stone is less so. Concrete and steel should be almost impossible to claw through, and require explosives or super ferals to break through. I feel like that opens up tactical possibilities. Just lowering damage feels like too much of a nerf.

This is an awesome idea. They should definitely implement this in some future patch. I don't know if there is any particular lore behind the setting of 7DtD, but the mechanics of the current patch make it seem as though the zombies are somehow related to the zombies from the COD universe. As in, they have some kind of supernatural aspect to them. Their strength and ferocity doesn't seem to be grounded in reality based physics. I would like it if eventually it was. Since, you know, the goal in 7DtD is reality based survival, not banishing Apothicons and magical shadow monsters and such.

[Ginger_beard24]

On 7/8/2020 at 9:51 AM, Scyris said:

They only struggled if they sucked, I'm sorry to say it but its true, when I started, I never had any real issues even as a new player. I've never starved to death, or dehydrated to death, if you did manage to do that my hats off to you, as with all the food sources I don't even know how the hell you managed that. I started in a9 or 10, and went in blind, it also was my first survival game.

 

Sadly with the way 7dtd is setup exploiting the AI is pretty much the game in terms of horde night. They chew thru blocks way to fast for punching with their bare hands, I 've personally always found it really REALLY stupid how a zombie can punch thru stone, it should destroy their hands and blow their arms off.

 

On the AI, what the hell do you want man? they are zombies, zombies are not smart. They are only deadly in large numbers the problem is the numbers are never high enough in the game. IMO cities/towns should be packed with TONS of zombies on the street, enough that its a real fight to manage to clear enough to get into a poi, with there being far less of them outside of towns/cities.

 

Honestly I miss when we had a choice to bother with horde night, I used to like my underground bases, if I wanted to fight the bloodmoon horde I could, or I could ignore it entirely if I so wanted. Me? I often ignored it, not because I can't kill them, but because its a waste of resources and it just jumps my gamestage, making everything else more annoying. To this day I still rarely bother with the bloodmoon mechanic as its just not worth the waste of resources just for exp I can get anywhere else for cheaper due to sneak attacks and such.

I agree. There should be hordes of zombies roaming the cities. And I would personally like to see bigger cities and towns. There is far too much wasted space on the map. Areas one never needs to go to outside.of the occasional treasure map or supply drop.

[Sawth77]

10 hours ago, sadpickle said:

I do that, but what I'd really like to see is some kind of damage modifier for stone, concrete and steel. Wood should be fairly wreckable, whereas stone is less so. Concrete and steel should be almost impossible to claw through, and require explosives or super ferals to break through. I feel like that opens up tactical possibilities. Just lowering damage feels like too much of a nerf.

I think this is a great idea.  Although I'm not a fan of the demolisher (on principle, having explosive zombies just seems off to me), something akin to the behemoth style monster would be a good counter for stronger material types.

Though, i would think that you'd have to make crafting anything past wood more difficult in order to balance it out.  As it is, crafting flag/cobble blocks are already super easy, and if you find a working mixer early on (or can buy it at the trader)  concrete blocks are possible on day 1.   In order to keep people from making nigh impenetrable bases up front, it'd require some balancing, but the concept is a good one. 

Also, like ginger was saying, larger towns and cities would be great.  Even a new prefab map that's just one huge metropolis would be a great addition.  

Now, if we could just get rid of that ridiculous "I hit a zombie and he starts running at me, regardless of settings" problem, we'd be golden.  I absolutely hate that addition.  <_<

[Jugginator]

All it boils down to is what the game is advertised as: A game where you gather your resources, build your base and defend it against the zombie hordes. Does zombies destroying concrete make sense? No, nor does zombies in general (why people even bring realism arguments into a game like this is rather crazy). Nor does carrying 400 metric tons of concrete in your backpack. But it wouldn't make tower defense (in the game's description) very fun. I'm sorry the handful of you dont get your realistic concrete or cobblestone, but having it impenetrable (and being able to hide under ground) would ruin the entire selling point of the game. Thankfully you can mod the game to suit your liking.

 

I've been saying this, but the ai doesn't need to evolve. Have any paths that are  non pathable cause the zombies to go into area destruct mode if there are no actual paths. That solves most cheese bases and ensures everyone has to deal with the horde in one way or another. And also prevents folks from accidentally cheesing the ai when they really just wanted to defend a base.

[BlopsDoctor]

On 7/10/2020 at 10:22 PM, alanea said:

well unlike animals ... zombies exist in  7 days to provide challenge  immersion  is secondary to balance ...  now we have  quite easy defense game (for average player who learned basics) with no major loses  on 7th days  would 

 

you prefer game where you build  2x2x2  concrete cube and laught  how "rotten meat" punch it whole night  for no damage while you shoot/smash  them from top ?

 

i think you  clealry bought  wrong game ... this is horror survival rpg   not "the sims"

 

zombies are  the only challenge/danger/enemy in this game  blood moon exists to force you to confront them (wandering  hordes are easy to dodge +  even at high gamestages usually mean just group of slow walker)

 

if they cant reach you due to bugs / flawed ai ... especially during blood moon ir makes them irrelevant and boring and degrade game to  3year + creative  building game

Obviously you are being disingenuous by not mentioning exploders, spitting vultures, and spitting/exploding cops intentionally.  Considering they are the biggest threats to any structure. You are also missing the point of what I said. If YOU are using exploits its not the games fault....ITS YOURS! You can't intentionally use an exploit and then complain that it shouldn't exist. YOU CHOSE TO USE IT. 

 

Plus you are admitting you dodge wandering hordes. "because they are slow walkers"? You can set all zombies to run faster than sprinting ferals. You are again choosing to not make the game harder and then complaining about it. Won't you play with max zombie spawns with all zombies set to sprint or higher, like I do, and then come talk to me about this game being easy!

[alanea]

22 hours ago, RipClaw said:

With the AI change came also a higher block damage and the Area Destruction Mode which is activated if they don't find a way to the player.

 

The new AI is good but the higher block damage and the Area Destruction Mode has caused problems for players who like classic bases where you shoot the zombies from above. And they didn't want to repair their base every week.

 

I don't mind the new AI. I use the zombies' intelligence for my own purposes by building funnel bases. Therefore my bases usually take only little damage because I don't rely on walls but use traps.

well never seen your so called  "area destruction mode" in 200 day playthrough in a18 zombies never ever attacked anything unless they detected me or wildlife  wandering hordes simply stay at target  hanging around like  randomly spawned zombies

 

while horde  grouped bonus is rather stupid ... damage isnt that bad unless you trigger demolishers ....  those guys are extreme if you fail to handle them

also ... if they make base that basically tank  zombies and you are too lazy to repair it after horde  then you deserve to die  by doing two hordes in row withou repair  they basically double  zombie block damage  .... and then complain about it being too high O.o    but even " facetanking"  bases  should have  valid entrance with doorsso zombies  group  up  on one side  where you can focus  your  defenses /attention .... instead bashing it from all sides  making you repair 4x more blocks

23 hours ago, Zerfall2142 said:

Fall traps? Nah too OP, TFP plz nerf. So now zombies are supernatural beings that can survive terminal velocity. Leading to cheese wedge moats. (Arguably nerfing realism and leading to less realistic bases)

 

The point I'm getting to is there is a constant race between people finding exploits and snowflakes complaining about them (and then TFP changing core game mechanics to nerf/make people play a certain way.)

 

Honestly I was happy before sleepers would respawn inside a poi I had just cleared, before a 5 zombie bear train hits my horde base 3 minutes before a blood moon horde starts. I was happy before zombies dug tunnels through straight solid rock into my backup bunker right after my horde base fell. I was happy with my old cobblestone castle that I'd have to defend against multiple breaches.

 

Now? You almost have to build a exploit base just to survive past your 4th or 5th blood moon horde. Meaning I can't play the game the way that it's fun for me anymore (or in anyway realistic for that matter)

fall traps ?  yeah  lets return to time of minecraft xp farms ...lets change bloodmoons back to state when you build pit taking down  99% zombie  hp and then they instantly die to blade trap/ fence  for free xp   all  you need is  4x4  hole to bedrock

 

yeah why  those  damned  zombies dig ....   lets rename game   " 7 days to dig  5 block deep hole and be immortal"

15 hours ago, sadpickle said:

I think it would be interesting if zombies were permanent (did not despawn) and were generally more dangerous in combat, but dumber. They shouldn't be able to pathfind well.

 

tl;dr: zombies are too smart, they wreck fortifications quickly and on bloodmoon you simply cannot avoid them without cheesing. I'm considering just making them really dangerous to melee, dropping their block damage and disabling the bloodmoon entirely, but it's an imperfect solution.

sadly thats not possible   game optimalization is quite awfull  you cant  keep loaded multiple chunks withou  100gb ram requirement so chunk would have to register zombies and respawn them on return

but game actually  struggle to handle  lets say  50+ or 70+  zombies  even on strong machines(you can have spare hardware resources but game stops asking for more and fail to handle it)  AI gets buggy as hell many zombies do nothing  or start doing crazy stuff like running in circles  and fps  drops appear+errors in console +  possible crashes  .. its like when you explode huge building  and game turn into slideshow .. struggling to recalculate all that physics .. constantly    so nope .. we  cant have they are billions due to engine limitations even if they polished it a little

btw be carefull what you wish for . when   zombies didnt path so well they just attacked random block close to them ... damaging  both poi and bases  on multiple places even if they could reach you(but were too dumb for that)   zombies being too smart isnt that  big problem ...  problem is they all choose same  way to you

if you made wall around base and they split into lets say  3 groups  on several places ... it would be far better

than   current smart zombies = lets all focus on single block    old dumb zombies = lets make hole every  other block

well bloodmoon is created that unavoidable challenging event thats giving you reason to build base and prepare for it ... many survivat games have  such event

https://conanexiles.gamepedia.com/The_Purge

11 hours ago, sadpickle said:

I do that, but what I'd really like to see is some kind of damage modifier for stone, concrete and steel. Wood should be fairly wreckable, whereas stone is less so. Concrete and steel should be almost impossible to claw through, and require explosives or super ferals to break through. I feel like that opens up tactical possibilities. Just lowering damage feels like too much of a nerf.

 again making  concrete block  once you have cement mixer is as simple as making wood block ( and have 16x more hp)

making "almost impossible to destroy" block with  3 hits of pickaxe and little time would be re*arded

if concrete have to be  rmore resistant .. ti must be alooooot harder to get as well

11 hours ago, NyLocke said:

This is an awesome idea. They should definitely implement this in some future patch. I don't know if there is any particular lore behind the setting of 7DtD, but the mechanics of the current patch make it seem as though the zombies are somehow related to the zombies from the COD universe. As in, they have some kind of supernatural aspect to them. Their strength and ferocity doesn't seem to be grounded in reality based physics. I would like it if eventually it was. Since, you know, the goal in 7DtD is reality based survival, not banishing Apothicons and magical shadow monsters and such.

well to  have  survival game where zombies mean  any noticeable danger   you need

a) have milions of them and be rounded

b) they must be fast and strong

zombies can be both .. many variation of zombie use one or even both types with no magic involved

sadly its  game not movie ...  so no walking dead ... slow harmless zombies .. you pretend to fear but even granny can walk away from them

also theres gameplay problem if  making  concrete block takes 5sec  of your time hiting common stone and while of forge /cement mixer time  you cant really want it  to be damage immune from every zombie except demolisher (day 50+)  can you ? especially when your first trader  have  50% chance to have intact cement mixer ( as well as many POIs)   its quite realistic to makel concrete blocks during day  1  so yeah gameplay wise even simplest zombies must be able to get trhough it in some realistic time

4 hours ago, Ginger_beard24 said:

I agree. There should be hordes of zombies roaming the cities. And I would personally like to see bigger cities and towns. There is far too much wasted space on the map. Areas one never needs to go to outside.of the occasional treasure map or supply drop.

iam sure thats long term goal  but they have clumsy unfinished system to load poi ( if you destroy house its visible from far but falls  appart when you run closer lol btw)  and not enought  poi(they add some every alpha)  but it definitelyt akes lot of work to build new one .. especially big like factory or  waterworks lol also they do awesome job with hiding small loot everywhere .. or  huge  laboratories mines complexes etc in simple house where you wouldnt expect it

even cities now have lets same   5-10x same house also you dont want every city to have every single poi to give people reason to actually visit other cities as well

 

 

[Kalen]

7 minutes ago, alanea said:

yeah why  those  damned  zombies dig ....   lets rename game   " 7 days to dig  5 block deep hole and be immortal"

 

And now its a couple of ramps and wedge tips and you're immortal.   At least hiding underground made some kind of logical sense.... seeing zombies endlessly loop is just ridiculous.

[alanea]

47 minutes ago, BlopsDoctor said:

Obviously you are being disingenuous by not mentioning exploders, spitting vultures, and spitting/exploding cops intentionally.  Considering they are the biggest threats to any structure. You are also missing the point of what I said. If YOU are using exploits its not the games fault....ITS YOURS! You can't intentionally use an exploit and then complain that it shouldn't exist. YOU CHOSE TO USE IT. 

 

Plus you are admitting you dodge wandering hordes. "because they are slow walkers"? You can set all zombies to run faster than sprinting ferals. You are again choosing to not make the game harder and then complaining about it. Won't you play with max zombie spawns with all zombies set to sprint or higher, like I do, and then come talk to me about this game being easy!

for single player yes .. if you cheat you cheat self

if its easy to cheat in multiplayer its problem.. also ai issues arent about you abusing them ... they happen all time even when you clear poi  zombies fall zombies get stuck ... zombies run back up and fall again ... you cant really prevent flawed ai from doing mess

 

spitting vultures- definitely not issue for wall/base destruction  blood moon vultures are overall 100% solved by having junk turret /shotgun turret/9mm turret aimed in area above you

demolishers - they have some block damage but attack quite slowly  ... during blood moons  one expldoed in my  200 day walkthrough  if they explode they are destructive .. on other side exploding demolisher is game punishing you for mistake (  i would say damage is adequate but area should be smaller)  .. well or reduce damage to half but keep area

spitting cops ...  yes they can damage  1/2 - 3/4 concrete block over horde night in late stages with spit  but its not really major issue also they spit only   if they see you .. they dont spit on random block they really piss people just because  people use dirt cheap wood bars instead iron bars and cop see you  = spit on you  but cant spit throug bar and  hit block with extremely small durability ( hopefully not the one you standing on lol)

i see this one as bug tho  iron  / wood bars are so  open they should  definitelly allow cop  spit through instead hitting block

exploding cops -  hmmm not huge issue while definitely not pleasant thing ... they are quite harmless by both range/damage compared to demolisher  they are doom of blade traps  but even several explosions ones wont destroy concrete block also they decide to run to you and try to explode at very low hp  if you have  even  simple firearm its to biggie to kill them before they explode  ( and electric fence keeps them stunned significant % of time delaying this behavior even more ofter making them dead  even before they manage to think about it)

 

wandering hordes are slow in other way .... they spawn ... running toward your  location  you used to be when they spawned  90%  time youre not standing on same place  unless you are inside fortified base combine this with small range to spot you  and boom  1 ) hordes miss you if you moving   2) hordes run around  withou noticing you if you lets say moved to harvest next tree or rock the only thing that really lure them from more than few blocks is shooting

and no  making everything run  kinda sucks ... i like that variability .. just mess with  xml  and make ferals/irradiated prevail while still keeping some normal walkers for effect i fint it quite boring if are all zombies at max speed as theres no variability (it still dont make anything hard simply because  marksman/ak or even smg in hands is unstopable in corridor ragdoll/stagger keep them back 

the other problem is mid - late game even light armor makes you ignore 70%+ dmg so you can easily tank even  irradiated ferals when things go wrong or take cop explosion into face

on survivalist ... insane is fine too  but i wouldnt recommend it to anyone as everything feels bit too bullet spongy +33%  damage(no biggie) +100% hp over survivalist =  bullet sponges   with huge chance for exploding head

28 minutes ago, Kalen said:

And now its a couple of ramps and wedge tips and you're immortal.   At least hiding underground made some kind of logical sense.... seeing zombies endlessly loop is just ridiculous.

yeah ,,, thats why i see zombie pathing over block they cant walk over but fall as severe game breaking bug

thats a) abused by players  b) happens  all time in POIs to everyone

 sure i agree high end  blocks should be alot harder to destroy  BUT 

1) if concrete should be tought it must be difficult to get to balance it   now its  just rock  and people have tens of thousands rocks and no other use for them its basically trash material from minning we throw away

2) no block should be trully immortal

3) no block should be able to hold of  7 day hordes with single layer

4) no block  with extreme hp should be simple to  place  = multiple upgrade phases .... drying  ...etc

instead ... hey  look boss room lets slam this 15k block in front of doors  so they can bash it for week while i shot them risk free

[RipClaw]

15 minutes ago, alanea said:

well never seen your so called  "area destruction mode" in 200 day playthrough in a18 zombies never ever attacked anything unless they detected me or wildlife  wandering hordes simply stay at target  hanging around like  randomly spawned zombies

You have probably already seen it but have not perceived it as such. It's easy to provoke.

 

In creative mode, build a 3x3x7 concrete or steel tower with two rows of iron bars around it. Then build some 3-block high pillars around the tower using a weaker material like flagstone. Stand on the iron bars on the outer edge and spawn some zombies and get their attention. You will notice that some or even most of the zombies will attack the pillars and not the tower you are standing on.  This is the Area Destruction Mode.

 

In A16 they would have ignored the pillars and also not attacked the tower but would have gathered directly under you. If you moved on the iron bars then the zombies moved with you.

The zombies would only have attacked the tower directly if you weren't standing on the iron bars but in the middle of the tower.