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The AI need to evolve in order for this game to survive.


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48 minutes ago, alanea said:
23 hours ago, RipClaw said:

With the AI change came also a higher block damage and the Area Destruction Mode which is activated if they don't find a way to the player.

well never seen your so called  "area destruction mode" in 200 day playthrough in a18 zombies never ever attacked anything unless they detected me

Unless they detected you? No kidding...

 

It is "so-called" because that is what the developers called it and it has been in game since A17.

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2 hours ago, RipClaw said:

You have probably already seen it but have not perceived it as such. It's easy to provoke.

 

2 hours ago, Boidster said:

Unless they detected you? No kidding...

yeah sorry guys my bad ... i somehow read if they don't find to the player .. was thinking he means some behaviour where zombies attack his stuff even if they dont see him/hes away like they did with any ground floor bases in  a16

 

well it kind of make sense ... that zombie cant reach him and get pissed = enrage and attack close target ... sure attacking pillar makes more sense

 

doubt i ever seen it at base as i usually keep valid acess so i never nhave to repair repair outer walls but yeah  zombies often attack random stuff in pois  it just dont take my attention ... before a17 they banged random stuff even if they had valid  path so veterans are used to  not pay too much attention to that

Edited by alanea (see edit history)
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3 hours ago, alanea said:

fall traps ?  yeah  lets return to time of minecraft xp farms ...lets change bloodmoons back to state when you build pit taking down  99% zombie  hp and then they instantly die to blade trap/ fence  for free xp   all  you need is  4x4  hole to bedrock :D

 

yeah why  those  damned  zombies dig ....   lets rename game   " 7 days to dig  5 block deep hole and be immortal"

 

Never said building a pit wasn't cheese. I was using it as an example of the constant cycle of exploits and nerfs. What is the endgame? Anytime an exploit to game mechanics or AI patting is found, TFP changes something. Taking us further away from what the game was when it originally entered alpha.  If the devs keep pigeonholing base designs into finding the next exploit where will we end up? It's a sandbox right? So why are we constantly being forced into a certain style of play?

What is the endgame here, bases in outer space and spaceX astronaut zombies?

Edited by Zerfall2142 (see edit history)
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15 hours ago, sadpickle said:

I do that, but what I'd really like to see is some kind of damage modifier for stone, concrete and steel. Wood should be fairly wreckable, whereas stone is less so. Concrete and steel should be almost impossible to claw through, and require explosives or super ferals to break through. I feel like that opens up tactical possibilities. Just lowering damage feels like too much of a nerf.

It opens only one tactical possibility: Everyone skips to concrete even more than they do now....

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25 minutes ago, Roland said:

It opens only one tactical possibility: Everyone skips to concrete even more than they do now....

<dons flameproof onesie> I wonder if concrete blocks should be gated behind a skill. Maybe Advanced Engineering 2 so it's not too hard to get. I do kinda remember cobblestone being more important back in the A15/A16 days. Nowadays finding a working cement mixer is pretty easy and having concrete foundations in a bespoke base by Day 14, if not Day 7, is standard.

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3 hours ago, alanea said:

for single player yes .. if you cheat you cheat self

if its easy to cheat in multiplayer its problem.. also ai issues arent about you abusing them ... they happen all time even when you clear poi  zombies fall zombies get stuck ... zombies run back up and fall again ... you cant really prevent flawed ai from doing mess

 

spitting vultures- definitely not issue for wall/base destruction  blood moon vultures are overall 100% solved by having junk turret /shotgun turret/9mm turret aimed in area above you

demolishers - they have some block damage but attack quite slowly  ... during blood moons  one expldoed in my  200 day walkthrough  if they explode they are destructive .. on other side exploding demolisher is game punishing you for mistake (  i would say damage is adequate but area should be smaller)  .. well or reduce damage to half but keep area

spitting cops ...  yes they can damage  1/2 - 3/4 concrete block over horde night in late stages with spit  but its not really major issue also they spit only   if they see you .. they dont spit on random block they really piss people just because  people use dirt cheap wood bars instead iron bars and cop see you  = spit on you  but cant spit throug bar and  hit block with extremely small durability ( hopefully not the one you standing on lol)

i see this one as bug tho  iron  / wood bars are so  open they should  definitelly allow cop  spit through instead hitting block

exploding cops -  hmmm not huge issue while definitely not pleasant thing ... they are quite harmless by both range/damage compared to demolisher  they are doom of blade traps  but even several explosions ones wont destroy concrete block also they decide to run to you and try to explode at very low hp  if you have  even  simple firearm its to biggie to kill them before they explode  ( and electric fence keeps them stunned significant % of time delaying this behavior even more ofter making them dead  even before they manage to think about it)

 

wandering hordes are slow in other way .... they spawn ... running toward your  location  you used to be when they spawned  90%  time youre not standing on same place  unless you are inside fortified base combine this with small range to spot you  and boom  1 ) hordes miss you if you moving   2) hordes run around  withou noticing you if you lets say moved to harvest next tree or rock the only thing that really lure them from more than few blocks is shooting

and no  making everything run  kinda sucks ... i like that variability .. just mess with  xml  and make ferals/irradiated prevail while still keeping some normal walkers for effect i fint it quite boring if are all zombies at max speed as theres no variability (it still dont make anything hard simply because  marksman/ak or even smg in hands is unstopable in corridor ragdoll/stagger keep them back 

the other problem is mid - late game even light armor makes you ignore 70%+ dmg so you can easily tank even  irradiated ferals when things go wrong or take cop explosion into face

on survivalist ... insane is fine too  but i wouldnt recommend it to anyone as everything feels bit too bullet spongy +33%  damage(no biggie) +100% hp over survivalist =  bullet sponges   with huge chance for exploding head

yeah ,,, thats why i see zombie pathing over block they cant walk over but fall as severe game breaking bug

thats a) abused by players  b) happens  all time in POIs to everyone

 sure i agree high end  blocks should be alot harder to destroy  BUT 

1) if concrete should be tought it must be difficult to get to balance it   now its  just rock  and people have tens of thousands rocks and no other use for them its basically trash material from minning we throw away

2) no block should be trully immortal

3) no block should be able to hold of  7 day hordes with single layer

4) no block  with extreme hp should be simple to  place  = multiple upgrade phases .... drying  ...etc

instead ... hey  look boss room lets slam this 15k block in front of doors  so they can bash it for week while i shot them risk free

 

You seem to think a game for everyone has to be built to your standards alone and everyone should just fall in line behind you. Thats not how gaming works.  Again. I say you can choose what you do. If you dont like cheesing an ai then dont do it. Someone else doing it has nothing to do with you. They are allowed to play the game in any fashion that makes them happy.  If you dont like it dont play with them.Welcome to the world. It doesnt revolve around you!                                                                           Aside from that if turning things up to make the game harder is still boring to you why do you think an improved ai will correct the issue? Do you even understand how a sandbox game works? You do realize that coding some super ai into this game is going to make it unplayable for anyone who doesn't have a super computer. Then you wont even have a MP to worry about. The stress this game puts on systems is already insane as it stands. And no Im not talking about me either. My I9 9900k and gtx 2080 runs it fine, but to put it into perspective for you I can run up to 30 instances of most games simultaneously and still not see the cpu/gpu usage that 7D2D runs.                                                                             As for the armor tanking you speak of you are exaggerating to an insane degree. At max player stats with level 6 steel armor fully modded with plates you only get to 73%. So your claim that leather gives 70 is just blatantly false.                                                                                                           Now for concrete you do realize it is just made with rock (limestone specifically and yes it is findable almost anywhere), sand and water. Its been a thing since the 4th century BC. So we shouldnt be able to make something in a futuristic apocalypse that has been made for 3,000 years or more at this point by people with primitive tools and knowledge.                                                                              With all that aside I dont think making some perfect ai is going to make the game any better for you. This is supposed to be a ZOMBIE survival game. Zombies are dead. They have no functioning brain aside from basic instinct. Essentially they are lobotomized  dogs which means they have absolutely no ability to think or adapt. This stopped being a zombie game when they started trying to make them smart. As it stand now the zombies are physics majors with a minor in architecture considering they know how to walk around to stairs or ramps and see bridges that they know the can cross and acknowledge that traps can hurt them so they walk around them.                                                                           It seems the game you want to play has actual humans with no weapons as the enemy because that is what you're describing that you want.

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One thing I keep thinking about is that the game allows you to build characters that focus on different things.... you can build a character thats combat focused, building focused, technologically focused, and stealth focused.   This is great diversity as each type has different ways of coping with challenges in the world.   Except for horde night.   

 

Combat can fight

Builders can fortify

Tech can build traps

Stealth..... nothing

 

I would love for there to be a way to defeat the horde with stealth.    Make it as challenging as the other styles of play, but make it possible.

Edited by Kalen (see edit history)
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3 hours ago, BlopsDoctor said:

 

sadly perfomance issues of 7 days arent based on ai apart of  bad graphic primization .. we have  memory leaks and bad handling of textures overall (ram bloating) if you spawn  50+ zombies get them to run around like crazy and disable/enable ai by command you wont  find detectable  change in cpu use (make sure to look away so zombies dont have to be animated) ai itself is pretty simple calculation  ....  most cpu issues lies in  1) explosions 2) collapsing buildings ( constant recalculating of stability for many blocks)

 

for armor:  you clearly dont know much about last alphas ...  

70 was alpha  17  cap for military armor  80  for steel

alpha  18 randomize stats  so  tier 5-6  military piece have   9-13 armor (+2 mod) thats  15at most per piece *5 meaning maximum  light armor is  75   not so sure for steel as its far inferior ....  but if i recall correctly i seen  15 armor piece  meaning  15+2  = 85 cap ?

its cool to say how simple and old concrete is  but we talk about game  here we havge zombies that jump   20 blocks  with human legs ....  we have guns that  deal different damage with same ammo = same bullet , same payload, same energy  .. and we also carry   3000+  1x1x1m concrete blocks in bag soo realism isnt important  whats important  is day  1  guy  with concrete mix in bag  and fact that  

 

70 stones = concrete block                                3000hp day 1-3 at most

140 stones =  reinf conrete block                      5000hp day  1-3 at most

140 stones 300 iron 150 clay = steel block        7000hp 4/5 perk  or extreme rng(crucible)

realism is secondary to balance effort / usefullnes of blocks  concrete  is extremely overpowered block now  .. easy to get  very tought ... but some would want it even indestructible rofl

 

for zombies .. google something about them theres many  different version of zombies

some are slow  dumb and clumsy

some are completely humanlike but aggresive

some are alot more faster stronger andsmarter than humans ... kinda like most vampires

 7 days zombies are clearly  atleast partially tin third group ... as advanced ones are alot faster than human   spiders jump 24 blocks  irradiateds also can take several shells to chest

4 hours ago, Zerfall2142 said:

...

 its alpha .... game is half developed and rapidly changing as developer opinion change ... yes its used to be  nomadish .. rpg  with scarce resources rare guns / ammo ..and extremely hostile (common dogs durign phases when player use wooden club lol ) now its more 1st person shooter game than anything else  almost no changes aim on exploiters itself for example ai was destroying POI  to extreme degree .. ground floor bases couldnt be used at all etc fall damage was simply extremely OP  so they capped it they clearly dont want zombies as clumsy harmless neighboor but some degree of danger and dislike bases that are immune to zombies withou player action probably because they think  game turn boring or repetitive if its player completely safe

 

overall devs fix  blocks that zombie wrongly cosider safe to walk =  bug .... that hits exploiters  .. but it needs to be fixed simply because it makes  zombies  do same st*upid stuff inside POI  that often contain those blocks as well .. i dont think anyone enjoy going  for bobs builders and seeing how all zombies just fall down  mistaking walkable block for non walkable or jumping somewhere they cant land

 

3 hours ago, Boidster said:

Nowadays finding a working cement mixer is pretty easy and having concrete foundations in a bespoke base by Day 14, if not Day 7, is standard.

yeah concrete is too easy to make ...  extremely cheap to make  .. and very tough .. almost on par with endgame steel and regardless what some say even max hordes need quite some time to chew through  layers of concrete

concrete could cost 3x more and it would still offer more hp per resource than steel block ... ignoring everything else

3 hours ago, Kalen said:

Combat can fight

Builders can fortify

Tech can build traps

Stealth..... nothing

yeah stealth is underwhelming overall ... 

-sneaking through poi takes 5-10x more time than go in guns blazing or even melee

-sneak is useless on blood moon

-with armor mods and  0 perks   you can still sneak quite close to zombie withou getting attention

no idea if perked person can pick her nose ...  bud unperked can get  to melee range .... on other side  how would you solve this ?  they clearly dont like avoiding horde ... and how should sneak help you fight...  on other side maybe they could merge sneak with parkour  and that perk to reduce mine damage to make it more popular

Edited by alanea (see edit history)
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1 minute ago, alanea said:

on other side  how would you solve this ?  they clearly dont like avoiding horde ... and how should sneak help you fight...  on other side maybe they could merge sneak with parkour  and that perk to reduce mine damage to make it more popular

Yeah, I'm not really sure.... any stealth based way of dealing with the horde would be to avoid it.   But I could see something like needing to constantly move, using obstacles to break line of sight, using distractions.   Basically some sort of active stealth where you cant just sit in one place and avoid the horde.   No idea if that would work or would even be fun.... just sort of spit balling .

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3 minutes ago, Kalen said:

Yeah, I'm not really sure.... any stealth based way of dealing with the horde would be to avoid it.   But I could see something like needing to constantly move, using obstacles to break line of sight, using distractions.   Basically some sort of active stealth where you cant just sit in one place and avoid the horde.   No idea if that would work or would even be fun.... just sort of spit balling .

 hmm thinking ..  maybe sneak perk should give % damage to silenced guns 7 days silencer is quite wrong it reduce range /damage ...  real life silencers actually increase velocity of bullet ( and are not all that silent as gaming ones) :D

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1 hour ago, alanea said:

 hmm thinking ..  maybe sneak perk should give % damage to silenced guns 7 days silencer is quite wrong it reduce range /damage ...  real life silencers actually increase velocity of bullet ( and are not all that silent as gaming ones) :D

Umm... That's not at all how suppressors (aka silencers) work.

Suppressors lower the noise from the expanding gasses behind the bullet as it leaves the barrel. In order for them to be effective bullets must be traveling at sub-sonic speeds (a non issue for some pistol rounds but a big deal for most rifle rounds as sub-sonic bullets inherently have less kinetic energy than the same bullet at supersonic speeds)

If supersonic rounds are used you still get a crack from the bullet breaking the sound barrier. 

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1 hour ago, Zerfall2142 said:

Umm... That's not at all how suppressors (aka silencers) work.

Suppressors lower the noise from the expanding gasses behind the bullet as it leaves the barrel. In order for them to be effective bullets must be traveling at sub-sonic speeds (a non issue for some pistol rounds but a big deal for most rifle rounds as sub-sonic bullets inherently have less kinetic energy than the same bullet at supersonic speeds)

If supersonic rounds are used you still get a crack from the bullet breaking the sound barrier. 

yeah welll  they never make  gun as silent as movie ones ... even with subsonic ammo they just reduce noise by certain percentage  ... they dont affect bullet in any way but they act as slightly longer barell giving gas  more time to speed up bullet before being dispersed  this leads to minor  velocity increase =  increase in energy/range/accuracy

its actually interesting as many games hardly understand this and suppresor means penalty of  course .. they are not widely used  for many reasons .. from size .. cost ...to  overheating

 

in tifles with long barrel  suppresor  doesnt really change anything anymore ... as buller manage to match  "gas speed" and  longer barrel cant do anything over that ... on other side  suppresor cannot slowdown bullet in any way  so yeah its gain for pistols .. smg ... short or assault rifles and no difference at all for long barrel rifles  ... anyway damage /accuracy/range penalty is absurd nonsense created by movie/game industry

Edited by alanea (see edit history)
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On 7/13/2020 at 10:15 AM, Jugginator said:

All it boils down to is what the game is advertised as: A game where you gather your resources, build your base and defend it against the zombie hordes. Does zombies destroying concrete make sense? No, nor does zombies in general (why people even bring realism arguments into a game like this is rather crazy). Nor does carrying 400 metric tons of concrete in your backpack. But it wouldn't make tower defense (in the game's description) very fun. I'm sorry the handful of you dont get your realistic concrete or cobblestone, but having it impenetrable (and being able to hide under ground) would ruin the entire selling point of the game. Thankfully you can mod the game to suit your liking.

No one is saying that cobblestone should be impenetrable, you're actually just being a bit over-the-top. People here aren't asking for accurate nutrition labels with calorie count and allergen information to be put on the cans of Sham or for characters to be given blood types, and type 2 diabetes if too much in-game candy is consumed. Most people here are remarking at the wonky game physics and/or damage scaling that is heavily biased (and not in a necessarily balanced way) in favor of the zombies and/or other fundamental game mechanics like AI. Your description of this game is laughable and only serves to put you in a position where you can condescend the people here who have legitimate criticism of the game. The survival mechanics are an integral part of the game, and you pretend as if they don't even exist! How convenient to have left that out of your game description. Half your comment is poorly informed at the very least. The words "Survival horror" are literally in the 7 Days to Die game description on Steam! lmao

I hope that helps clarify why "pEoPLe bRiNg REaliSm aRguMentS inTO a GaMe LikE This." Because it literally tries to emulate reality + zombies. And while on the subject of zombies, zombies have been around long enough to be considered a well known archetype of western culture. So it's not that hard to see why people would call out AI behavior that does not fit the familiar zombie archetype.

 

Quote

I've been saying this, but the ai doesn't need to evolve. Have any paths that are  non pathable cause the zombies to go into area destruct mode if there are no actual paths. That solves most cheese bases and ensures everyone has to deal with the horde in one way or another. And also prevents folks from accidentally cheesing the ai when they really just wanted to defend a base.

I do agree with this solution. Simple, but if it works it could save the devs a lot of time in the long run.

Edited by NyLocke (see edit history)
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2 hours ago, NyLocke said:

 

actually wrong several people asked in this topic to make conrete indestructible.. because zombies shouldnt even scratch it with bare hands so its unrealistic BS  that need to be changed int heir eyes if you roll topic a little up i tried to explain seberal ones that its impossible from balance view ... problem  is  that people who demand concrete  indestructible with hands completely ignore  fact they can carry enought concrete for skyscrapper  in bag .. while its far less realistic than punching concrete they suddenly dont care lol

 

and where he said 7 days isnt survival game ?  sure it is .. but very survival features i very mild ( hunger and  thirst is close to irrelevant  after late a17 nerfs) the only thing i cooked in  200+ walkthrought  during a18 was granpa  learning recipe(ok  also pumpkin recipes .... but didnt eat that just wanted see stats before realizing how useless they are) ... as you find enought food in poi to  never fall under 150 

it definitely isnt true hard  survival  like subsistence green hell stranded deep etc

 

ai destroy blocks  ig thery cant reach you but its simply unfinished ...if its block holding you  5+ away  then ever find it ... an djust group under you  +  they suck at recognizing  whay keeps  you safe  and just  punch mindlessly close objects

but exploits use  other  misyake ... zombies dont recognize many unbwalkable  blocks  from walkable ... so they think they can reach youu  but fall and  try it over and overso they have no reason to destroy anything

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AI behavior that does not fit the familiar zombie archetype

problem is  it fits  familiar zombie archetype .... just some people seen one zombie series  and talk like expert  while theres  actrually more fast / smart zombie universes around that dumb/slow ones:D walking dead just made  " slow zombies popular lately

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6 hours ago, NyLocke said:

Your description of this game is laughable and only serves to put you in a position where you can condescend the people here who have legitimate criticism of the game. The survival mechanics are an integral part of the game, and you pretend as if they don't even exist! How convenient to have left that out of your game description. Half your comment is poorly informed at the very least. The words "Survival horror" are literally in the 7 Days to Die game description on Steam! lmao

Uh, I think you need to re read the actual game description on steam. That's where I got that from. Tower defense, building your base and defending it from the horde is literally in that description. I guess once you calm down, do some meditation, re read it lol.

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I'm one of those people who would like to see a specific block that zombies cannot destroy; but something almost impossible to build.  Maybe make it a use of raw diamonds in that if you take a fully-upgraded steel block and add 20 raw diamonds to it you get a "defense block" that zombies can't beat through and that, if you're not cheating, you have to spend MONTHS looting, mining, and checking the trader to get.

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I do love No True Zombie arguments. As though zombies and zombie behavior are immutable facts observed and recorded by science, instead of entirely fictional and up to the whims of the artists who create them. Here's a partial list of many wrong types of zombies (along with the One True Correct type).

 

We recently watched S1 of The Warrior Nun on Netflix. Not a horrible show if you're into young women in stylized nun habits toting machine guns and swords, which I totally am. Spoiler alert: they have a Tarrasque in the show and of course everybody knows that there is only ONE Tarrasque, not several, and that it is not a demon from hell, and the show was just wrong. Really ruined it for me, how they took a completely fictional monster and...fictionalized it.

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57 minutes ago, Dracula said:

...

 2 blocks are all exploiter need for immortal pillar base tho  .. while classic base wont benefit from two blocks at all ;)

but sure give us alot stronger block ... if they have adequate  effort /repair cost

56 minutes ago, Boidster said:

...

well  we play scifi game  with skyscrapper in backpack .... yet  some refuse to accept theres  more tjan one type of zombie  they  know from shi**y tv series

 

overall anything truly dead would quickly decay  body  can bloat and explode  like whale corpse within days

everything else is kinda scifi /fantasy

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A.I. pathing is difficult to code, especially in a game like 7D2D where voxels allow fully destructible... 

 

Sadly, I don't think the A.I. will be ever be good enough for horde nights to account for all the devious tricks that humans can pull. Humans always seem to find a way for humans are crafty SOB's. FFS, humans are in space.

 

 

If  FunPimps obtained  unlimited funds they could probably squash a lot of the exploits, but Pimps  don't have unlimited funds. This lack of unlimited funds means  the Pimps  need to pick and choose which broken things to work on that provides the most over all benefit to the game. Seems doubtful that squashing every single exploit (like riding a minibike all night to completely avoid the horse) would be high on the prioritization list.

 

 Personally, would rather seem them focus on every day A.I. and increasing the zombie wandering numbers.

 

 

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, Jugginator said:

Uh, I think you need to re read the actual game description on steam. That's where I got that from. Tower defense, building your base and defending it from the horde is literally in that description. I guess once you calm down, do some meditation, re read it lol.

You doubleing down on your cherry picking of the game description is truly mind boggling. Here, let me help you: go to 7daystodie.com, now press Ctrl-F on your keyboard and type in the word "Survival." At this point, you should be reeling back in amazement of all the times it is mentioned; shocking, I know.

 

You must have the type of color blindness that makes the word "Survival" an illegible jumble of words on your screen. It couldn't possibly be that you are intentionally chosing not to acknowledge that this game is a survival game, and not simply a tower defense game, just so you can mock other people's comments. 

 

As an added bonus, feast your defective eyes on this juicy line: 

 

Quote

7 Days to Die has defined the survival genre

 

I'll work on my meditation when you work on your reading comprehension :)

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1 hour ago, alanea said:

 2 blocks are all exploiter need for immortal pillar base tho  .. while classic base wont benefit from two blocks at all ;)

but sure give us alot stronger block ... if they have adequate  effort /repair cost

People will always find exploits; plus, if it's already a known exploit, what's it matter?  Last I checked, you can still use the cheat menu to add bedrock; isn't that game-breaking?

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9 minutes ago, Dracula said:

People will always find exploits; plus, if it's already a known exploit, what's it matter?  Last I checked, you can still use the cheat menu to add bedrock; isn't that game-breaking?

No, because the cheat menue is expressly for "cheating". Once you activate that, you know you are outside of the base game that was balanced as best as possible. But that's okay, you are allowed to play how you like if the base game isn't quite your thing. 

 

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46 minutes ago, meganoth said:

No, because the cheat menue is expressly for "cheating". Once you activate that, you know you are outside of the base game that was balanced as best as possible. But that's okay, you are allowed to play how you like if the base game isn't quite your thing. 

 

I don't buy that since there are too many decorative blocks that cannot be made without using it; curved archways, paneled doors, tables, etc.

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On 7/12/2020 at 9:21 AM, alanea said:

because you clearly forgot  how game looked before a 17  or didnt played it at all

Remember when I said that I started playing in alpha18? Well since 17 comes before 18, then that means that I did not play it.

 

On 7/12/2020 at 9:21 AM, alanea said:

those crybabies should use sliders to make game toddle friendly without bothering rest?

OP is the one trying to change the game for everyone else, instead of playing the way he thinks it should be played. Not to mention there are issues in the game that cannot be fixed with "sliders." Only time will tell if they get fixed.

On 7/12/2020 at 9:21 AM, alanea said:

you probably play game quite wrong ... if you even consider it being hard

This is a serious problem that you, OP, and a few other people commenting here have. 7 Days to Die is a game that fits within several genres. Among other things, it is a SANDBOX game. Which means that there is no right way of playing it; you either survive, or you don't. Which also means, that you can't tell anyone else that they are playing the game wrong. Please look up the definition of a sandbox game. Until you know what that means you can't go around explaining to people why they are wrong.

On 7/12/2020 at 9:21 AM, alanea said:
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As someone said before, they break through stone blocks like they were made of styrofoam

realistic ?  nope ... must  ? definitely what exactly is your idea ...  wooden  door keeping you safe several hours?  concrete block whole night ?  week ?  eternity ?

Don't be ridiculous. You have this really annoying thing that you do when you respond to someone's comment where you take something they say, then you reword it to make them sound like an idiot, and finally you respond to YOUR version of their comment with a huge paragraph. With all due respect, it is hard enough for me to read/understand any of your responses, it doesn't help that 80% of your replies are you just arguing with yourself.

 

As far as block damage goes, no one commenting here who is serious is asking for concrete bases to endure the full force of an endgame Horde night. If there is anyone who is asking that, then it is a shame that you take them seriously and put them in the same category of people here who, like me, just want a small buff to higher level materials. Let me repeat that, a SMALL buff to higher level materials. If I don't clarify myself I'm afraid I'll have to read a hefty novel about how I want the game to be more like my little pony. Whatever the hell that means.

On 7/12/2020 at 9:21 AM, alanea said:

yes and zombies can get arm / leg shot off  or take shotgun hit and keep running ..  can you ?  generally zombies dont feel pain  sprained  or broken single bone actually dont make you  unable to  walk .. pain does zombies should be  definitely more resistant to damage  than living creature

Lmao. No, if I get shot in the arm with a shotgun at point-blank range, I DIE. You know what that's called? Realism. So thanks for making my case for me. This is really important and I'm glad you brought it up. I could write a whole paragraph myself about this topic alone. It doesn't matter that zombies are resistant to pain. It doesn't matter if they feel NO PAIN AT ALL. Which by the way, I am inclined to say that they do feel pain because they make sounds that suggest they do when you inflict bleed damage or set them on fire, or even just damage them. At the end of the day, a zombie is made out of the same materials I am. They may be chasing me trying to eat my brains, but they are doing it with their legs which are made of flesh and bone (unless they're crawly bois lmao). Bone that should be just as easy to break for them as it is for me. When I am looting a POI and I sneak into a large room, clear the zombies and proceed to loot, I don't personally appreciate it when 4 zombies then drop from three stories up, get up and chase me like nothing happened. If the game was as hard on them as it is on the player, then when they dropped from that height, they would break a leg, and not be able to sprint. It would be interesting if, when zombies drop from such great heights, they become crawlers on impact.

 

Now, on this subject I have to concede to artistic license. After all, I do not want the game to be made any easier. I don't want a "my little pony days to die." But this game incorporates realism into A LOT of its gameplay, and this one thing with the indestructible zombies is just something that annoys me. The compromise here is that at least they stumble to get up when they fall from such tremendous heights.

On 7/12/2020 at 9:21 AM, alanea said:

hmmmm killed  over 80k zombies during  a18 and lets say 1/3 with melee weapons as i tested and compared them and i can tell you i never got hit by slow zombie unless i got stuck by some chair  inside buildings ... zombies never  magically hit you on long range and they have range 2  only weapons with same range ( but unable to hit if you moving(they need to get alot closer  make whole smash animation  and still   have you in range on end )  are  hunting knife and  knuckles everything else have  2,3- 3,2 range

Now that you mention it, I don't remember this being an issue for me in Alpha 18. I'm also not talking about slow zombies, if I get hit by one of them it's because I'm an idiot. The issue I've run into is when a zombie is sprinting at me, when they get within melee range, I will swing at them at a distance that would connect with a walking zombie, but not for one that is running. I think this happens for the same reason that when you knock down a zombie, if you are close enough to them as they are getting up, it will sometimes launch you into the air. Suddenly you're hovering over the standing zombie 6 ft off the ground. I'm curious if anyone else has had this issue. You make it seem like it's never happened to you, so if anyone reading this can tell me if it's happened to them I'd appreciate you letting me know. Maybe it's something to do with buggy hitboxes, idk.

On 7/12/2020 at 9:21 AM, alanea said:

They are ZOMBIES for Christ's sake! The living dead. This games representation of zombies is very unrealistic.

actually completely wrong  theres like  50+  types of zombies  with different features  in various movies  books

I made a mistake when I said this, I should have worded it differently. However, this is another one of those compromises of artistic license. My problem is that when I think of a zombie, I think of a creature who was once human, died, then was reborn as the animalistic, purely instinctual, brain-craving creature we all enjoy blowing the brains out of. Different people have had different takes and have created different variations of zombies over time. Does that mean I'm "completely wrong", no I don't think so. I guess I'm a bit of a purest when it comes to zombies. I don't even necessarily have any issue with the types of zombies that 7DtD has. My issue is the same one I explained above in terms of buggy zombie physics. Do I think a zombie should be able to jump across a distance of 50 feet like some sort of human sized grasshopper? I think it's a bit silly, and given the survival aspect of the game, I'd expect more realistic zombie physics at least. But I won't be petitioning for 7 Days to Die to make their zombies more boring any time soon.

On 7/12/2020 at 9:21 AM, alanea said:

not rly sandbox  tycoon  creative   yes you have possibility  to  7 days into zombieless  creepy minecraft .... but if you ride donkey instead horse dont try to  persuade others into seeing it as horse

WHAT

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6 minutes ago, Dracula said:

I don't buy that since there are too many decorative blocks that cannot be made without using it; curved archways, paneled doors, tables, etc.

I think this is deliberate because at least before the variable block/shape menues were implemented they would have totally cluttered the crafting menue. Also those blocks are to make the POIs look pre-apocalypse, so a survivor would not necessarily have access to them. The third problem is that some of the decorative blocks could be used for even more AI exploits. So it keeps Fataals job easier.

 

Now, with the variable block/shape menues more of them might get added, who knows. But last I heard MM thinks if people want decorative stuff, they should just go into creative menue, he is using it for the same purpose.

 

 

 

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