7 Days of Ammo Crafting

[Liesel Weppen]

I do not understand the players that refuse to use directional bases in this game, and then complain that their defense is too hard/expensive. It's too hard/expensive because it's a stupid way to defend.

Because tricking the poor AI with such tricks feels cheesy... almost like cheating. However, we now have a gamestage between 500 and 600 and still use no traps or turrets. Only spikes, junk turrets, our weapons and lots of grenades.

 

And from the recent bloodmoons we've learned, it might be even worse if you force them coming all into one way. 1-2 demolisher then could probably take out your whole defense. Make them attacking from one direction so might also be a single point of failure.

[RipClaw]

I do not understand the players that refuse to use directional bases in this game, and then complain that their defense is too hard/expensive. It's too hard/expensive because it's a stupid way to defend.

 

This can have different reasons.

 

If it is a base for several players, you might want to split the load. Or you can use the defenses for the other directions as a backup. For example, you can build a base so that you close a bridge when you want to repair one side.

 

In the past you built the bases for all 4 directions because the zombies simply ran towards you in a straight line. You don't have to do that anymore but you can still do it.

[Laz Man]

This can have different reasons.

 

If it is a base for several players, you might want to split the load. Or you can use the defenses for the other directions as a backup. For example, you can build a base so that you close a bridge when you want to repair one side.

 

In the past you built the bases for all 4 directions because the zombies simply ran towards you in a straight line. You don't have to do that anymore but you can still do it.

 

Essentially the player needs to be somewhat more creative in base design to deal with A18 hordes (cheese or no cheese... 😂)

 

...or take the easy way out and just a dig a hole to bedrock. I've seen a few videos where that still works. Boring but still effective.

[RipClaw]

Essentially the player needs to be somewhat more creative in base design to deal with A18 hordes (cheese or no cheese... )

 

...or take the easy way out and just a dig a hole to bedrock. I've seen a few videos where that still works. Boring but still effective.

 

In my current base with dart traps, blade traps and electric fences, I had 2 demolishers explode during the last Horde. Since everything is made of steel, the base did not suffer too much damage and only one blade trap was destroyed.

 

I will try the design with the pit down to the bedrock next. A little boredom during the Horde doesn't bother me. I have my fun while building.

[ShadesOfKnight]

Maybe I am missing something - But I stopped using Turrets when I had four of the Junk Turrets(damn lucky RNG finds) and only one of them would fire at any given time. I had a partial horde come through the wall opposite me that the turrets should have been covering, and that was disappointing.

 

How do you guys have multiple turrets active at once?

[RipClaw]

How do you guys have multiple turrets active at once?

 

The junk turrets are not the only turrets in the game. You can build SMG turrets and shotgun turrets. These need electricity and are not mobile but you can use as many as you want and they are all active as long as you have enough power.

 

[theFlu]

Not Junk turrets, SMG turrets or shotgun turrets.. real ammo, power generators, etc.

 

EDIT: Oops, "last post of the previous page" got me again ... what RipClaw said

[ShadesOfKnight]

The junk turrets are not the only turrets in the game. You can build SMG turrets and shotgun turrets. These need electricity and are not mobile but you can use as many as you want and they are all active as long as you have enough power.

 

 

Ah. Thank you for that!

 

I thought that a Junk Turret was just a poor man's turret and the behavior would be the same no matter what "tier" it was.

 

Thank you - now I have yet another thing I have to spend skill points on.

[canadianbluebeer]

The M60 works really well, and since my accidental horde base funnels them in a single line, having 4 on the belt works just fine.

 

I make a mini game of trying to shoot off their heads with a single shot to save ammo. (and no armor on their faces)

 

Can still run through a boatload of ammo tho. (worst night so far, was 3k used)

 

now 18.3 dropped, so gonna have to restart again methinks.

[Laz Man]

In my current base with dart traps, blade traps and electric fences, I had 2 demolishers explode during the last Horde. Since everything is made of steel, the base did not suffer too much damage and only one blade trap was destroyed.

 

I will try the design with the pit down to the bedrock next. A little boredom during the Horde doesn't bother me. I have my fun while building.

 

Yeah, probably worth trying at least one if you have never built a bedrock pit base...and if you have an auger of course...😂😂😂

[Khissi]

Because tricking the poor AI with such tricks feels cheesy... almost like cheating. However, we now have a gamestage between 500 and 600 and still use no traps or turrets. Only spikes, junk turrets, our weapons and lots of grenades.

 

And from the recent bloodmoons we've learned, it might be even worse if you force them coming all into one way. 1-2 demolisher then could probably take out your whole defense. Make them attacking from one direction so might also be a single point of failure.

 

Em... how the hell are you at GS 500-600 and using ONLY those things? At that GS, you're only getting radiated and demos and demos are not slowed the least bit by spikes. Even with rad removers in your junk turrets and max perks with 2 junkies going full blast for each of you, I would have problems seeing that as a viable way to fight blood moon hoards. The amount of melee damage a demo can do (not even counting their block damage when they explode) is just crazy. Your hoard fighting area must be nothing but holes.

 

I know the RNG makes it so that on some hoard nights, you see no demos at all, but it only takes one blowing up in the right spot to domino defences. You guys must be total crack shots or something. I'd love to know your hoard base design.

[Limdood]

And have you tried this when your horde includes a large number of Demolishers?

 

Yes.

 

And at this point you can take your constant elitist gatekeeping in every stupid thread you post in and shove it.

[PaybackXero]

Yes.

 

And at this point you can take your constant elitist gatekeeping in every stupid thread you post in and shove it.

 

Right?

 

Besides, Demolishers aren't even a big deal, unless landscaping is a huge concern for you. We actively detonate them (and prefer them as enemies), because that only takes a bullet or two. Who cares if you have holes in your yard? That's a 15 minutes fix, tops, after the horde is done. Irradiated zombies are far worse, because they are nothing but bullet sponges (on Insane, anyway). Luckily, they tend to get replaced pretty heavily by the demos if you get your GS high enough, so it eventually becomes about as easy as when you were getting your first few blood moon hordes.

[Ghostlight]

Yes.

 

And at this point you can take your constant elitist gatekeeping in every stupid thread you post in and shove it.

 

Not at all. How can it be elitist when I make post after post describing the fact that I am having problems with Demolishers???

 

I'm curious how you combined Turret-based defence against Demolishers in a base that pushes the horde so they all come in from one direction? Please tell me how you do it so I can build on your ideas, as I tried the exact same approach and I am having issues with that. Turrets trigger them.

 

Also you said you walled off 3 sides so the horde only comes from one direction. We did the same. 3 sides of a pyramid completely sealed with one side an open tunnel. If you do that with this AI they will not obligingly come in your kill side unless they happen to spawn from exactly that direction. Instead if they spawn from any of the closed off sides, we've found they will just mill about on the walled off sides of your base doing nothing and you will only get stragglers entering the kill side. I'm also looking for a way to avoid this and make them enter the kill side. How do you manage that? Would be useful to know as I am looking for ideas in that dept as well; we want to kill them all.

[RipClaw]

Right?

 

Besides, Demolishers aren't even a big deal, unless landscaping is a huge concern for you. We actively detonate them (and prefer them as enemies), because that only takes a bullet or two. Who cares if you have holes in your yard? That's a 15 minutes fix, tops, after the horde is done. Irradiated zombies are far worse, because they are nothing but bullet sponges (on Insane, anyway). Luckily, they tend to get replaced pretty heavily by the demos if you get your GS high enough, so it eventually becomes about as easy as when you were getting your first few blood moon hordes.

 

It always depends on the type of your base.

 

If you shoot the zombies from a tower, it is cheaper to trigger the explosion of the demo zombies. If you use electrical traps like blade traps or dart traps you don't want the demo zombies to explode because they destroy the traps.

[Ghostlight]

Besides, Demolishers aren't even a big deal, unless landscaping is a huge concern for you. We actively detonate them (and prefer them as enemies), because that only takes a bullet or two. Who cares if you have holes in your yard? That's a 15 minutes fix, tops, after the horde is done. Irradiated zombies are far worse, because they are nothing but bullet sponges (on Insane, anyway).

 

Well if you genuinely do not care about Demolishers exploding, just use Grenades or pipe bombs or other explodey things. That way you will kill dozens of Irradiated per Grenade. Very cheap.

[Limdood]

To Ghostlight (and whoever else might want to try the base)

 

make a 15x15x3 (or 15x15x4 if you wanna be safer or build on uneven ground) slab...outside should be your strongest material, but the 7x7 on the inside can be anything...I use flagstone.

 

Now make walls on top of that...all the way around. Leave 1 door on one side. Make a ramp up to the door. Leave the door open.

 

Now you've got an elevated base with a ramp leading right in. you're half done.

 

Extend the side walls past the open door...past the ramp, until you've got something like a 15x15 courtyard in front of your base. make sure there is a walkway all the way around (this will narrow the courtyard to something like 9 blocks wide, but the point is that the zombies have a good 15 block walk from entering the courtyard until they've climbed the ramp into your base...which of course will have the only access to the walkway you're standing on).

 

You want the outer wall of the walkway/courtyard solid, so nothing can draw LOS to you, and the inner wall of the walkway as bars...even wood works here...its' just to stop the spiders jumping on you.

 

Now line the walls of the courtyard with electric fences (this is super important...slows and roots them for easy headshots and turret work). Meanwhile you stand over the entrance to the courtyard, facing inwards (towards the "front door" of the base). Set up any turrets there, Junk turrets are great, SMG and shotgun should work. They work because due to the angle, you're firing at the back of the head of incoming zombies, since said zombies are entering beneath you, running forwards (away from you) and being shot from behind and above them.

 

This is nothing more than a classic medieval castle killing field but adapted for this game to fire into the backs of enemies...since demolisher triggers are in their front.

 

Meanwhile as defenders, we'd have one of us (or one weapon, if solo) as a high-powered, armor piercing shooter for the demolishers while the other person/people pop irradiated heads. If a demolisher WERE to be triggered, both players swap to SMGs with drum mags, AP ammo, and rod & spring and blast the body until it's deleted.

 

_V_Raised Base_______V_open courtyard, raised walkway

OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

O_____________DWWWWWWWWWWWWWO

O_____________OWWWWWWWWWWWWWO

O_____________O_________________WWO

O_____________O_________________WWO

O_____________O_________________WWO Zombies enter here and run towards the ®amp

O_____________O_________________WWO

O_____________DRRRR________________ <-----

O_____________O_________________WWO Players stand on W and fire at zombies passing underneath

O_____________O_________________WWO

O_____________O_________________WWO

O_____________O_________________WWO

O_____________OWWWWWWWWWWWWWO

O_____________DWWWWWWWWWWWWWO

OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

 

We put a drawbridge in the back, precisely because we don't like cheesing the game either. Drawbridge makes an entrance that CANNOT be accessed by zombies, and for a reason OTHER than their AI or action limitations.

 

This base and defense is abominably expensive to build, but it works AMAZINGLY well for us. It doesn't cheese the AI any more than actual traditional medieval defenses (raised fortifications were the way to go precisely BECAUSE you could choose what side was attacked). Even if a random zombie does get stuck whacking a wall for a bit, they always eventually recalculate and "find" the path in (we often have blocks around the outside damaged a token amount in the morning...none of them ever even get to half unless we've been firing at them).

 

Now, if my impression of your past posting history is any indication, this is where you chime in that this base completely won't work with 64 count zombie hordes in 5 player games on warrior difficulty at 200% zombie horde night damage or something similar, because I've noticed that your trend seems to ALWAYS be to make a comment to the effect of something not working once the game gets harder/you turn up the difficulty/you have 64 zombie count/etc.

 

What this base DOES do, is allow us to absolutely steamroll 16 zombie count hordes on nomad difficulty at 100% block damage in a 2-4 player game. It very likely could handle more, but I haven't given it a try yet.

[Laz Man]

To Ghostlight (and whoever else might want to try the base)

 

make a 15x15x3 (or 15x15x4 if you wanna be safer or build on uneven ground) slab...outside should be your strongest material, but the 7x7 on the inside can be anything...I use flagstone.

 

Now make walls on top of that...all the way around. Leave 1 door on one side. Make a ramp up to the door. Leave the door open.

 

Now you've got an elevated base with a ramp leading right in. you're half done.

 

Extend the side walls past the open door...past the ramp, until you've got something like a 15x15 courtyard in front of your base. make sure there is a walkway all the way around (this will narrow the courtyard to something like 9 blocks wide, but the point is that the zombies have a good 15 block walk from entering the courtyard until they've climbed the ramp into your base...which of course will have the only access to the walkway you're standing on).

 

You want the outer wall of the walkway/courtyard solid, so nothing can draw LOS to you, and the inner wall of the walkway as bars...even wood works here...its' just to stop the spiders jumping on you.

 

Now line the walls of the courtyard with electric fences (this is super important...slows and roots them for easy headshots and turret work). Meanwhile you stand over the entrance to the courtyard, facing inwards (towards the "front door" of the base). Set up any turrets there, Junk turrets are great, SMG and shotgun should work. They work because due to the angle, you're firing at the back of the head of incoming zombies, since said zombies are entering beneath you, running forwards (away from you) and being shot from behind and above them.

 

This is nothing more than a classic medieval castle killing field but adapted for this game to fire into the backs of enemies...since demolisher triggers are in their front.

 

Meanwhile as defenders, we'd have one of us (or one weapon, if solo) as a high-powered, armor piercing shooter for the demolishers while the other person/people pop irradiated heads. If a demolisher WERE to be triggered, both players swap to SMGs with drum mags, AP ammo, and rod & spring and blast the body until it's deleted.

 

_V_Raised Base_______V_open courtyard, raised walkway

OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

O_____________DWWWWWWWWWWWWWO

O_____________OWWWWWWWWWWWWWO

O_____________O_________________WWO

O_____________O_________________WWO

O_____________O_________________WWO Zombies enter here and run towards the ®amp

O_____________O_________________WWO

O_____________DRRRR________________ <-----

O_____________O_________________WWO Players stand on W and fire at zombies passing underneath

O_____________O_________________WWO

O_____________O_________________WWO

O_____________O_________________WWO

O_____________OWWWWWWWWWWWWWO

O_____________DWWWWWWWWWWWWWO

OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

 

We put a drawbridge in the back, precisely because we don't like cheesing the game either. Drawbridge makes an entrance that CANNOT be accessed by zombies, and for a reason OTHER than their AI or action limitations.

 

This base and defense is abominably expensive to build, but it works AMAZINGLY well for us. It doesn't cheese the AI any more than actual traditional medieval defenses (raised fortifications were the way to go precisely BECAUSE you could choose what side was attacked). Even if a random zombie does get stuck whacking a wall for a bit, they always eventually recalculate and "find" the path in (we often have blocks around the outside damaged a token amount in the morning...none of them ever even get to half unless we've been firing at them).

 

Now, if my impression of your past posting history is any indication, this is where you chime in that this base completely won't work with 64 count zombie hordes in 5 player games on warrior difficulty at 200% zombie horde night damage or something similar, because I've noticed that your trend seems to ALWAYS be to make a comment to the effect of something not working once the game gets harder/you turn up the difficulty/you have 64 zombie count/etc.

 

What this base DOES do, is allow us to absolutely steamroll 16 zombie count hordes on nomad difficulty at 100% block damage in a 2-4 player game. It very likely could handle more, but I haven't given it a try yet.

 

Sounds legit. I have similar base setup (fire from behind) but at a smaller scale. Glad to hear it works against demos. 😎👍

 

I'm nearing the day 63 horde but still under 153 GS (SP)

 

 

.

[Tordur77]

So this post went from my "Chemstations and workbenches should have tools to speed them up" to "This is how I defeat the zombies on hordenight!"

[RipClaw]

Yeah, probably worth trying at least one if you have never built a bedrock pit base...and if you have an auger of course...������

 

I have an auger and I used it to build such a base. It took me almost two ingame weeks but the base is now finished and has already had its first horde night. It didn't go as expected but I survived and the damage to the base was not as bad as thought.

 

The base is a 5x5 shaft from the surface to the bedrock. The zombies fall into a pit surrounded by 2 block thick steel walls. Inside the pit are electric fences to stun the zombies. Through an opening I can throw grenades and pipe bombs which I then ignite with exploding crossbow bolts to start a chain reaction.

 

Unfortunately the zombies got through the 2 blocks of steel faster than expected and then into the maintenance area around the pit.

 

I could have left them in there because nothing would happen to me but I thought I could shoot the zombies through the maintenance hatch. Unfortunately I fell into the maintenance area around the pit with no quick way out. Then I played little bit "catch me" with the zombies. Fortunately I had my M60 on my belt and enough 7.68 ammo and bandages and first aid kits in my inventory to survive until 4am.

[Brian9824]

Just scale up the workstations. I mean at that point if your producing that much its not had to just add another 3-4 chem stations, more forges, etc. I mean you have 7 days give or take between hordes, so just queue up a large chunk, go out looting, then come back and drop off loot, empty it out and repeat.

[Limdood]

So this post went from my "Chemstations and workbenches should have tools to speed them up" to "This is how I defeat the zombies on hordenight!"

 

because it's like someone going to the store and buying one item at a time over and over until they've finished their shopping and complaining that shopping takes too long.

 

Yeah sure, faster shopping would be nice, but that isn't the problem, it's the method you're using.

 

I wouldn't mind faster chem stations and workbenches, but you'll notice that crafting has been made VERY INTENTIONALLY slower in A18 (intellect no longer speeds it up). It is therefore unlikely that those workstations will be adjusted to craft faster than they already are.

 

Instead, the commentators are addressing the root cause - the wildly inefficient base setup that necessitates the ammo factory of the OP. Sprinkle in the little tangents and supporting points being addressed, argued, and refuted and there is nothing unusual at all about this thread.

[Tordur77]

because it's like someone going to the store and buying one item at a time over and over until they've finished their shopping and complaining that shopping takes too long.

 

Yeah sure, faster shopping would be nice, but that isn't the problem, it's the method you're using.

 

I wouldn't mind faster chem stations and workbenches, but you'll notice that crafting has been made VERY INTENTIONALLY slower in A18 (intellect no longer speeds it up). It is therefore unlikely that those workstations will be adjusted to craft faster than they already are.

 

Instead, the commentators are addressing the root cause - the wildly inefficient base setup that necessitates the ammo factory of the OP. Sprinkle in the little tangents and supporting points being addressed, argued, and refuted and there is nothing unusual at all about this thread.

 

I NEVER said I used only 1 chemstation, workbench and forge. I have 4+ of each. My initial 4 SMG turrets keeps tabs on all the screamers this creates, so no problem. But this is why I call it an ammo factory game, you have to compensate the slow chem/workstations by building more and more of them. My base is going to be 10+ levels/stories of chemstations and workbenches + forges at this rate. Why not add tools to the chem and workbecnhes to have a MUCH smaller base footprint?

[Ghostlight]

Iron Spikes will one-shot Screamers at no cost and won't activate them.

[Brian9824]

Iron Spikes will one-shot Screamers at no cost and won't activate them.

 

Yeah this, always use iron spikes as a passive defense to handle them.