Let's talk: Melee weapons

[Hollowprime]

I was checking the clubs the other day and realised the baseball bat deals an extra 50% wooping damage compared to iron club.

With 3 non-damage mods and a tier 5 club , no skill points in the clubbing perk , level 8 skill strength and a maxed out tyrannosaurus I managed to clear a tier 5 quest on warrior difficulty.

 

I also like hammers as they are a decent source of crowd control. But I think the steel variant is not a decent upgrade as it appears it swings too slowly and has a reduced or similar dps overall .

 

Still the ones I'm confused are the spears. Normally since they are huge knives one would expect to turn zombies into shish kebabs but instead they deal too low damage.

 

So my questions are, what's your opinion on the steel hammer and what's your opinion on the spears. Particularly how do you use spears as a main weapon.

[Orclover]

Please estimate your game stage as well as the weapon you are talking about. A tier V quest is a lot different at gamestage 50 than it will be at 150. I found the spear to be essentially useless when facing off against nothing but glowies, which is where we all eventually end up.

[Hollowprime]

Please estimate your game stage as well as the weapon you are talking about. A tier V quest is a lot different at gamestage 50 than it will be at 150. I found the spear to be essentially useless when facing off against nothing but glowies, which is where we all eventually end up.

 

I am at gamestage 130+. Very few irradiated zombies but lots of cops.

[Hollowprime]

Ironically I cannot finish a tier V quest with baseball bat even when attribute/clubbing perk are maxed out and tyranosaurus is level 3. It's not even about the stamina. I can't kill zombies fast enough (and I got anti irradiated mod, armor reduction mod and the flame mod) . Zombies tank the bat damage like it's nothing and they come in numbers.

I'll try again with a sledge hammer. I'm once again very dissapointed by the clubs. The spear can't even handle a single zombie lol.

[Huggy]

Something's changed. When I swing with a sledgehammer it feels like the impact sweetspot has moved further away. I'm not sure if that explains it correctly but I've been swingling and missing a LOT and it's increasingly frustrating. I've been hitting behind the zombie an awful lot, and if you're doing one of those tier V quests where six of them are running at you simultaneously, that can prove very costly. I've had to rely more and more on a SMG-5 and even the Marksman with AP ammunition and lvl 4 penetration, and even then it barely slows down a group of z's when they're rushing you. There's only so much continually falling back you can do!

 

I died a couple of times doing the large Shotgun Messiah tier V quest the other day and I'm beginning to think the Perception Build I'm doing is a busted flush. It's great on horde night but the rest of the time it's just, meh. Maybe I should change my tactics and start throwing down wood spikes every time I enter a new room but that seems excessive.

 

My previous build was a Fortitude Build using Steel Knuckles, with lvl 10 Fortitude and both Pain Tolerance and Healing Factor maxed-out, and I must say, I feared nothing playing that character. It was tough as nails. The quests I'm struggling with now - using a sledgehammer and firearms - I could stand in a choke-point and just slug it out with five or six irradiated z's. Hair-raising? Hell yes, but I didn't die.

 

It might be time for some Grampa's Fergit'n Elixer.

[mr.natural]

Sledge hammer works fairly OK but not when there are many Z's, then you get the same problem as with the basebal bat. It's a looter shooter game mostly now.

[Sjustus548]

Ironically I cannot finish a tier V quest with baseball bat even when attribute/clubbing perk are maxed out and tyranosaurus is level 3. It's not even about the stamina. I can't kill zombies fast enough (and I got anti irradiated mod, armor reduction mod and the flame mod) . Zombies tank the bat damage like it's nothing and they come in numbers.

 

I find the best mods to use on the bat are the chain and the weighted head mod. This way you have a good chance of knocking zombies down. I clear T5 quests with nothing but the bat pretty easily, difficulty is the step below Insane, game stage 190+. I have 10 Str, 5 in clubs, 5 in T-Rex, and I find 5 in the Agi perk that let's you swing faster to be a nice addition. Also 7/7 in Batter's Up. I also have all 5-6 Steel fully modded armor so I can take a lot of hits before having to worry about having to heal up.

[theFlu]

Hmm.. I don't exactly know how to respond here; as a stun-based melee weapon the Bat is just slightly lesser than the Sledge. The spear is a completely different beast, mostly meant to tickle them from a distance or thrown for some risky damage.

 

But to measure them in terms of "can I clear a Tier V solely by it" is completely dependant on what your tactics are. If you're willing to fight in doorways and take some hits, you're going to be somewhat ok with any of the stunners. If you're willing to build barricades/nerdpoles within the POI, you'd be fine with a butter knife, so the spear would do fine too. If you're not talking about default difficulty... well.

 

If you're Not willing to build, then are you willing to stealth, sprint, climb existing walls, lure the zeds into downwards staircases where they'll spend their time breaking the floor etc etc..?

 

In my games this far, I've ended up using "a gun and a bat". The gun can be pretty much any of them, rifles Need some perk points to be effective, otherwise not that big of a deal. The melee weapons though;

- spear is too weak to do normal attacks with, never use one anymore

- blades are just as ineffective, without the option of tossing them. There's one on my bar after meeting a boar, so I might stabbity someone with it afterwards..

- fists.. need the spec for the stunlock, otherwise too weak to consider. ok when specced, if you enjoy punching a pile of zeds lying on the ground for half a day..

- the stun baton looks fun, but doesn't really do much. Even the electrocution doesn't stun a zombie, just roots it in place, so you can't go toe-to-toe carelessly

- the sledge is great with the talents, but quite punishing when missing.. most dependant on stamina, needs sexrex to function

- the bat is very solid even without skill points, whenever I test one against my "current specced" melee weapon, I find it equally good if not better.. so it's become my default..

[Hazeree]

200+ gamestage and all glowing for tier V clears. That said, stealth perks are level 4 and I crossbow almost every zombie before they wake up. Insta-gib.

 

But to your original question: Bat, or iron sledge would be best for you. You already have the perks for clubs, so may as well go with the bat.

 

Me, I always hated how the machette went from being the beast melee weapon that was endgame to earn, to worthless in A17. Even today, it requires alot to get a decent one made/found, yet its worthless in comparison. So, I gave it back it damage from A16 days in the xml files. TFP will not take my machette away from me.

[Scyris]

There are some tricks you can do with the sledge, take running zombies for example, don't try to aim for a headshot at first, with 7 str and lv4 in the sledge perk I almost always knockdown a zombie on the first swing even radiated ones. So I aim for the body for knockdown then power attack the head (for the bonus dmg vs stunned), which with 5/5 sex trex, I get the stamina back from the power attack that just killed that zombie, i've 2 shotted radiateds on warrior difficulty this way. First body blow knocks down, then the power attack to the head does enough damage to kill them, assuming it doesn't just pop their head right off.

 

Next tip, and this can apply to most melee weapons but it works the best with sledge/clubs: use chokepoints. The sledge's normal attack can knockdown several zombies at once with the glancing blows system, or with a power attack. The choke point means they bunch up nicely for you, and it also prevents most of them from hitting you, so your just tanking one zombie usually. Knock em down and execute them.

 

If your willing to turret exploit/cheese you can also drop a junk turret behind you, so it'll help knockdown the zombies in the choke point. I generally look down on people using junk turrets who aren't a int build outside of horde nights. Its just overpowered as hell with its almost every shot knockdown, I never use them, except on horde nights as you'd prob use turrets then anyway. You can place the turret before you even go into the room, if its a room you know has a large amount of zombies, like many rooms in the t5 quest prefabs, especially the factory ones, maybe trap around the entrance with barbed wire, sure you'll have to walk thru it to get out of the room, but if you run in make noise to aggro them you can run back thru the barbed wire before they catch up to you.

[Scyris]

Ironically I cannot finish a tier V quest with baseball bat even when attribute/clubbing perk are maxed out and tyranosaurus is level 3. It's not even about the stamina. I can't kill zombies fast enough (and I got anti irradiated mod, armor reduction mod and the flame mod) . Zombies tank the bat damage like it's nothing and they come in numbers.

I'll try again with a sledge hammer. I'm once again very dissapointed by the clubs. The spear can't even handle a single zombie lol.

 

To be honest, other than sledge, and the baseball bat the other melee weapons just aren't viable past midgame, Iron club I suppose can do better than the rest, for the same reason the sledge is so good: its secondary effects. Power attacks with clubs with 5/5 sex t-rex are extremly small in stamina cost, and you have a high chance of a guarnteed knockdown vs any zombie with it. Sledge/clubs are so good because of the knockdown, its not just their high damage, a knocked down zombie is a removed threat so you can focus on the other ones. next nearest weapon to sledge then clubs is fists if perked, they have a decent knockdown chance, though its not as high as the clubs. Spear, knives and the stun baton? forget it, don't even try to use them once your facing mostly ferals you'll get hit too much.

[Bhaaltazar]

I tried all of the melee weapons and after mid game they all become very underwhelming. You are basically forced to switch to guns - even maxed out turrets doesnt do enough damage to irradiated ones.

The whole melee feels very imbalanced and underwhelming in my opinion - I m not sure if that is intended or just a bit bugged or underdeveloped at the moment. Animations are still off, the point and poke instead of swing is also a let down.

 

Hope they fix melee in the future updates, because whole shoot em up just ain't fun, it becomes stale very fast. In previous alphas guns served only as a back ups in "oh sh**" moments. And that was more fun than whole post A17 fighting. Ammo should be more uncommon and more valuable, so you think twice before you spray that magazine - afterall it's a post apocalypse - no ammo factories out there.

There has been good developments in this A18, so lets hope melee gets some attention in near updates.

[Scyris]

I tried all of the melee weapons and after mid game they all become very underwhelming. You are basically forced to switch to guns - even maxed out turrets doesnt do enough damage to irradiated ones.

The whole melee feels very imbalanced and underwhelming in my opinion - I m not sure if that is intended or just a bit bugged or underdeveloped at the moment. Animations are still off, the point and poke instead of swing is also a let down.

 

Hope they fix melee in the future updates, because whole shoot em up just ain't fun, it becomes stale very fast. In previous alphas guns served only as a back ups in "oh sh**" moments. And that was more fun than whole post A17 fighting. Ammo should be more uncommon and more valuable, so you think twice before you spray that magazine - afterall it's a post apocalypse - no ammo factories out there.

There has been good developments in this A18, so lets hope melee gets some attention in near updates.

 

Sledge and club like I said are only viable due to their knockdown chance, you can easly lock down any 1-3 zombie pack with a sledge, so they can't do anything to you. Knockdown is always why I consider junk turret overpowered as its too good even with 0 int. I only allow myself to use them on horde night only, unless I am specced into turret syndrome, then I feel I got the right to use it alongside my other non-int line weapons. Seen streamers using them on insane and it just made it a joke as they pretty much kept the zombies knocked down and out of the battle.

 

Late game you have so much ammo, you might as well start using it and in general you'll clear poi's much faster with a gun than with melee.

[Hollowprime]

So I've tested a spear, a sledgehammer and a club build with maxed strength/tyrannosaurus/melee perk build with level 5 weapons.

 

Sledge hammer just straight up beats anything else with ease,mostly because the stun perk is amazing,basically total crowd control at level 5.

The club's perk is too weak. It has on average a 25% flat damage increase from the critical (every 4th hit is doubled).

Spears on the other hand deal somewhat ok damage when fighting single enemies but in no way can a spear compare to anything else. And it's sad because it's a really cool weapon. Perhaps an automatic retrieval (say it happens with a rope attached to it) would be nice. Or at least a huge stamina drain for non stop spearing.

Personally I think spears should be the most damaging melee weapon in a cone. They should insane damage on a single target. This is why in ancient times everyone used spears instead of hammers or knives.

Come to think of it spears usually can have insane range.

 

Just tossing ideas here.

[Orclover]

The machete and blades were never more than a tool, way too much risk/damage taken to use for fighting.

 

Tried the fist weapons during experimental. They were ok but going constantly toe to toe, hell nose to nose meant taking constant damage to deal damage. You HAD to mod for knockdowns as others have said and you spent most fights just trying to hit downed zeds in the face over and over and over. But any more than a handful and you better bring out the guns.

 

Tried Spears for a while. They were fine for early game and chokepoints. If you could get a barrier up you could pick away at them from safety which was nice. Mid game they start to wane pretty heavy and you rely on throws. Which nothing breaks your heart more than throwing your level 6 steel spear completely modded out and perfect at a cop zed...only to have it narrowly miss and go sailing off the top of the apartment building never to be seen again. Ever. Yea the risk reward ratio for spears dooms them. End game the damage is way too low, would take forever to take out a destroyer, he gonna blow up before you can finish him.

 

Sledges are OP, same as always. Awesome weapons. Nothing like clearing a IV or V POI with nothing but sledge stealth kills. Nothing one shots like a sledge.

 

Currently at Gamestage 180. Maxed out strength, Pummel Pete and batter up:

Clubs are meh. But baseball bats are not too bad. Using just those now for melee. I can take on any number of regular and feral zeds with just a bat but glowies take a while to beat down with one. If you have a handful of glowies or glowing cops/demolishers...guns. Dont even try it with a bat.

[Scyris]

So I've tested a spear, a sledgehammer and a club build with maxed strength/tyrannosaurus/melee perk build with level 5 weapons.

 

Sledge hammer just straight up beats anything else with ease,mostly because the stun perk is amazing,basically total crowd control at level 5.

The club's perk is too weak. It has on average a 25% flat damage increase from the critical (every 4th hit is doubled).

Spears on the other hand deal somewhat ok damage when fighting single enemies but in no way can a spear compare to anything else. And it's sad because it's a really cool weapon. Perhaps an automatic retrieval (say it happens with a rope attached to it) would be nice. Or at least a huge stamina drain for non stop spearing.

Personally I think spears should be the most damaging melee weapon in a cone. They should insane damage on a single target. This is why in ancient times everyone used spears instead of hammers or knives.

Come to think of it spears usually can have insane range.

 

Just tossing ideas here.

 

Thats what I was saying, the secondary effect is what makes the sledge so damn good and viable pretty much for most of the game. Second you get level 1 in the sledge perk you notice a huge diff even with the stone sledge, its the damage part either as stone sledge at t2 only has 19 damage, but you WILL notice the much more common knockdowns. My first 4 points after initital quest usually go like this: 1 in str, 1 in sledge, 2 in miner 69'er, next lv is Adv engineering 1, or 3 str, then 2 sledge. I never bother with intel in my builds, with motherload at 5/5 you have more resources than you know what to do with. I do get adv engineering 1 though just for the early forge unlock and the 20% craft speed increase which stacks nicely with the anvil. I generally have 2 chem labs producing gunpowder 24/7, I mine 12k nitrate and coal, and queue up 6k gunpowder in each which takes 270 realtime minutes, so I don't really have to mine it again for a days. I'll admit the changes to some of the int perks in a18.2 b2 in experimental does tempt me to get some intel. You can basically make 10k gas for the cost of 8k, or 1000 gunpowder for the cost of 800. Its just not enough though, as I said in single player in a 8k world, i'd probally die of old age irl before i'd use up all the resources on the map.

[Hollowprime]

Thats what I was saying, the secondary effect is what makes the sledge so damn good and viable pretty much for most of the game. Second you get level 1 in the sledge perk you notice a huge diff even with the stone sledge, its the damage part either as stone sledge at t2 only has 19 damage, but you WILL notice the much more common knockdowns. My first 4 points after initital quest usually go like this: 1 in str, 1 in sledge, 2 in miner 69'er, next lv is Adv engineering 1, or 3 str, then 2 sledge. I never bother with intel in my builds, with motherload at 5/5 you have more resources than you know what to do with. I do get adv engineering 1 though just for the early forge unlock and the 20% craft speed increase which stacks nicely with the anvil. I generally have 2 chem labs producing gunpowder 24/7, I mine 12k nitrate and coal, and queue up 6k gunpowder in each which takes 270 realtime minutes, so I don't really have to mine it again for a days. I'll admit the changes to some of the int perks in a18.2 b2 in experimental does tempt me to get some intel. You can basically make 10k gas for the cost of 8k, or 1000 gunpowder for the cost of 800. Its just not enough though, as I said in single player in a 8k world, i'd probally die of old age irl before i'd use up all the resources on the map.

 

I cleared 3 tier V quests in Gamestage 150+ in nomad difficulty. Maxed sledge hammer and a level 5 turret/turret syndrome. The sledge hammer would stun a whole group of zombies and occasionally would kill single zombies while the turret would pulverize zombies.

I killed so many zombies I jumped at least 5 levels.

 

I don't think any other melee weapon is capable of doing so much damage or at least provide so much crowd control. I haven't tried the stun baton with turrets but I doubt it can kill zombies as easily as a sledgehammer. I'm not even sure if it can stun so many targets in such a huge simultaneously.

[SenpaiThatIngnoresYou]

Ironically I cannot finish a tier V quest with baseball bat even when attribute/clubbing perk are maxed out and tyranosaurus is level 3. It's not even about the stamina. I can't kill zombies fast enough (and I got anti irradiated mod, armor reduction mod and the flame mod) . Zombies tank the bat damage like it's nothing and they come in numbers.

I'll try again with a sledge hammer. I'm once again very dissapointed by the clubs. The spear can't even handle a single zombie lol.

 

Replace the flame mod with the head or something that knocks them down. With the right book they will go flying when hit.

[Synvastian]

to be honest, the spear tree is meant to be treated like a super short range gun (not thrown, but stabbed through a "port" which zombies can't fit through)

 

it also shouldn't come to surprise you that the spear tree (Perc) also features the Explosives tree...which is actually there to support the use of the spear

 

example: You sneak/walk into a room and see 2-3 zombies, you know the spear is best 1v1 when you have room and protection (doorway with a block, blocking the bottom of 2 spaces) so, you drop a landmine at your feet, smack a wall and retreat 5 steps, first 1-2 zombies trigger the mine killing or severely damaging them, and you move back to another doorway and block the bottom half so you can stab from protection...or use pipe bombs which are super cheap to make considering the small investment in supplies (iron pipes and plant fiber + small amounts of gunpowder)

 

in essence, you have to use all of an attribute tree to make each style good, I myself do think that knives at least need a buff, but if you use a bow beforehand (sneak head-shots from a compound bow/crossbow will almost always 1shot even irradiated if you're perked into it)

[SickPuppy]

Tested on insane always run gs 200+, in order:

 

1 Sledges, Stone sledge to be exact, much better for clearing pois than steel. Way faster attack speed, on nightmare run knock down is king, might take couple more hits to kill a zombie but you're capable of keeping multiple zombies on the floor. You miss with steel sledge you're in trouble. I only use steel for horde nights.

 

2 Blades risky at first but later with machete = awesome, multiple bleeds, popping heads, fast attack speed, aoe damage, has knock down capability, great on horde nights, total badass.

 

3 Fists, great fun, not as powerful as sledge but able to pop heads and fast attack speed can keep multiple zombies on floor. Not so good for horde nights.

 

4 Stun baton, lacks bit of power but makes up with stun, useful on nightmare run.

 

5 Animation of clubs feels weird to me, decent power and knock downs but I miss a lot with them, don't use them.

 

Spears, terrible on nightmare run. Throwing away your weapon in a limited toolbelt is just wrong, needs some sort of retrieving mod but even then it has no aoe damage, very low damage weapon, not particularly fast attack speed, not popping heads as much as other melee, you're running around like a loon vs a group. Lowest tier.

 

Imho ofc.