No perk points in vain!

[Hyperbolt]

Hello survivors!

If i remember right, madmole mentioned in one of his videos that you should always get something more from perks than just unlocked recipies, so you wont feel you wasted points if you find the schematic later.

 

The perks "Living of the land", "Yeah, Science" and "Grease monkey" still contains ranks where you gain no additional effect other than recipie unlocks.

This should be looked in to!

 

Extra effects could include simple things like faster crafting time, cheaper crafting cost... Or more complex effects like unlocking a small chance of getting a seed from another crop-type when harvesting crops, or decrease fuel consumption when driving vehicles?

 

Whats your thoughts?

[OzHawkeye]

They do sound good, and yeah, perks should get you more than just a recipe.

[RipClaw]

I think you're right.

 

I only have one point in Living of the Land and have already found the schematics for most of the plants I need. Only the schematics for mushroom seeds are still missing. So for me the question is if I should invest two more points just to learn how to make mushroom seeds.

 

I have a similar problem with Grease Monkey. I only invested one point and only because I needed a handlebar to make an auger.

All other vehicle parts I learned through schematics.

[Hyperbolt]

Im in the same boat! It would be nice to get the 3 crops per harvest, but it doesnt feel good spending points if youve already found most of the seed-recipies in the previous ranks.

And since you level up slower in alpha 18, you get even more hesitant on spending points on things you could unlock in other ways..!

[Sjustus548]

Im in the same boat! It would be nice to get the 3 crops per harvest, but it doesnt feel good spending points if youve already found most of the seed-recipies im the previous ranks.

And since you level up slower in alpha 18, you get even more hesitant on spending points on things you could unlock in other ways..!

 

I have 4 points in Living off the Land currently, I found the recipe for Super Corn so there wasn't any need for me to pick it up. After reading this I realized there isn't any reason for me to have any points in it anymore since I have found all the recipes for all the seeds. I also have so much food currently that I just throw it all out anyway. I shall definitely look in to get a respec drink and using those points in a better place.

[Ghostlight]

I feel the general concept that Perks can unlock recipes that are also loot-able and purchasable from traders is a bad design. It gives rise to all of the following possibilities, none of which result in a positive player experience...

 

1) The schematic never drops, so you are forced into Perks you didn't really want to be (e.g that damn Crucible forced me to Int 10)

 

2) The schematics drop after you bit the bullet and bought the Perk.

 

3) More often than not, both of the above!!! Grrrrrrrrrr.

 

4) Some of the schematics drop, but you end up missing a crucial one to complete the set (usually occurs with vehicles)

 

So in short, I think schematics should either be loot/buy only OR Perk only. Not both.

[OzHawkeye]

So in short, I think schematics should either be loot/buy only OR Perk only. Not both.

 

I'd agree with that, except for the fact that you can reset your perk choices so, #2 is out (for a cost).

[Ghostlight]

I'd agree with that, except for the fact that you can reset your perk choices so, #2 is out (for a cost).

 

Don't get me started on that topic. That Perk reset elixir should never have been added to the game imo.

[Scyris]

Don't get me started on that topic. That Perk reset elixir should never have been added to the game imo.

 

IMO if you use it, any station you build/gear u made that you never unlocked the recipe for should auto self destruct. Its biliantly exploitable as you can go star lv 10 get everything, then just respec it out, and keep everything. IMO stats should not be allowed to be respeced out, only the perks inside each stat. I also feel that stats need to do more. Just headshot damage and dismember chance is kinda meh, each stat should do something special. Honestly though I wished they'd get rid of stats entirely and go with a learn by doing system instead. I especially dispise how diff guns are locked to diff stats. I like pistols, but agi is just garbage compared to fortitude or str in terms of other perks other than pistols so I cannot warrant taking any agi at all, as it just doesn't offer anything of value other than better pistol damage.

 

Darkness falls mod/overhaul did it right, action skills on things that make sense: Athletics, Weapon/mining tools, medicine (bandages etc). But crafting was not one of them, you needed a perk for that which just required certan levels to up the tier you can make. A16 should never have had crafting quality tied to an action skill imo, that was the one big mistake with a16's learn by doing systems.

[Hyperbolt]

So in short, I think schematics should either be loot/buy only OR Perk only. Not both.

 

Me personally would be fine with having both ways, as long as you get something more from perks than just the recipie.

But then again, i wouldnt mind having the recipie-hunt like in alpha 16 either..!

 

However, i think that what i said at the start of my thread is more likely to be implemented by the pimps than outright removing recipies from perks.

 

There are lots of other things i wish for them to change, but thats for another topic! x)

[Scyris]

The devs listen to our requests for most things, except learn by doing, the comminuty in general wants LBD back, but the devs are dead set on not having it for some reason. A reason like "We didn't like that." does not qualify, whats a legit reason it had to be removed and made into the garbage system a17/18 now uses?

 

A16 was my fave time in 7dtd, it reminded me of a elder scrolls game with survival and post-apoc settings. Gaining skill in weapons and getting the assoiated perks made sense, unlike now where its spend perk point magically become better at something even if you never, ever touched it before.

 

Then again I am a older gamer, I'm more about the journey than the destination. Its why I've pretty much quit the mmorpg genre, they are all about rushing to max level to do raids, that give gear that serves no purpose anymore as your at max level and have nothing to use the gear for. Last mmorpg I might play is Phantasy Star Online 2, as its getting a english server in 2020 finally, i've played the japanese server for years, that game is more about the journey than just hitting max lv.

[Sjustus548]

The devs listen to our requests for most things, except learn by doing, the comminuty in general wants LBD back, but the devs are dead set on not having it for some reason. A reason like "We didn't like that." does not qualify, whats a legit reason it had to be removed and made into the garbage system a17/18 now uses?

 

A16 was my fave time in 7dtd, it reminded me of a elder scrolls game with survival and post-apoc settings. Gaining skill in weapons and getting the assoiated perks made sense, unlike now where its spend perk point magically become better at something even if you never, ever touched it before.

 

Then again I am a older gamer, I'm more about the journey than the destination. Its why I've pretty much quite the mmorpg genre, they are all about rushing to max level to do raids, that give gear that serves no purpose anymore as your at max level and have nothing to use the gear for. Last mmorpg I might play is Phantasy Star Online 2, as its getting a english server in 2020 finally, i've played the japanese server for years, that game is more about the journey than just hitting max lv.

 

I like the LBD method but I remember having to sit around at night to craft a ton of stone axes, cloth shirts, crafting wood blocks only to upgrade and break them, basically just spending all night doing the same thing over and over to get my skills up. It makes a lot more sense than just getting a perk point to automatically get better at something but man did it get tedious very quickly. My guess is that is one of the reasons that they decided to do away with it in favor of this new system.

 

If you want a good story driven mmo you should definitely check out Final Fantasy XIV. It's the best mmo out currently in my opinion.

[Scyris]

I like the LBD method but I remember having to sit around at night to craft a ton of stone axes, cloth shirts, crafting wood blocks only to upgrade and break them, basically just spending all night doing the same thing over and over to get my skills up. It makes a lot more sense than just getting a perk point to automatically get better at something but man did it get tedious very quickly. My guess is that is one of the reasons that they decided to do away with it in favor of this new system.

 

If you want a good story driven mmo you should definitely check out Final Fantasy XIV. It's the best mmo out currently in my opinion.

 

Thats why I said don't have crafting related things in it. In the darkness falls mod you do need 30 construction tools you can get by repairing/upgrading blocks for a workstation unlock, but you can literally get that in 1 night in a 60 min game, upgrading a poi. All other tier stuff is based on perks.

[Hyperbolt]

A16 should never have had crafting quality tied to an action skill imo, that was the one big mistake with a16's learn by doing systems.

 

It was alpha 15 and earlier that had crafting as action skills. In alpha 16 they functioned like perks, you had to manually spend points in them. They were level-gated, however!

 

Action skills is the nr.1 thing i miss about this game. I know the will never be reimplemented as they were before, so from what im been thinking, how about this:

There is 7th tab im the perks menu, called action skills, all having a max of 100 levels.

You cannot put points manually in these skills.

These skills are separate from the perks, meaning no perks are tied to any specific level in the similar action skill.

There are skills for all weapons and some other skills, for example:

 

Pistols

Rifles

Shotguns

Archery

Bladed weapons

Blunt weapons

Fist weapons

Explosive weapons

Technological/misc weapons

(the spears could either have its own category, or maybe they could fit into Bladed weapons?)

All weapons would gain like, +0,3% increased damage per level.

 

Mining: (dealing damage to blocks with tools) +0,5% block damage

Athletics: (spending stamina) +0,3% stamima regen

Bartering: (buying and selling goods) +0,3% trading efficency

Scavenging: (looting) +1 to gamestage loot

Construction: (crafting and upgrading) +0,3% crafting speed and +0,5% upgrade speed

 

Leveling these skills would be rather slow, like 50% slower that the alpha 16 skills were to level. And yes, they should only give a small bonus, the perks should still be the major component of powers.

 

This is what i would wish for most of all... But i guess that will be left to the modders.

[Scyris]

Many people miss the action skills, i'd say the majority of players do. Though I do agree they did rise a tad to fast in a16. Athletics in A16 I think was a global stam reduction on all actions, and it governed the sex t-rex skill which increased stam regen amount.

 

Basically how a16 was just with slower lving skills and crafting removed from them would be good. Or like you said, Construction skill which is crafting/repair/upgrading in one and increases crafting speed and maybe repair amounts per swing with tools? Don't have consuction linked to any perks though, the rest though would be fine. Like scavving can govern lucky looter and salvage ops in a18. Mining tools governs miner 69'er and motherload. Athletics governs Cardio from agility anf sex t-rex from str. Bartering would be charsmatic nature, and better barter. The weapons are self explantory, and then have a heavy and light armor skill, which also governs its relevant skill.

[Hyperbolt]

My idea was that the action skills were separated from the perks, so dont worry about any skills linking to perks! You will be able to max out perks like miner 69er regardless of what level you have in mining, these skills will just be an extra layer, so that it feels more rewarding to focus on certain things im the game

[Ghostlight]

Last mmorpg I might play is Phantasy Star Online 2, as its getting a english server in 2020 finally, i've played the japanese server for years, that game is more about the journey than just hitting max lv.

 

Oooh we have similar tastes then. I played PSO for years back in the day. So many fond memories. Haven't played PSO2, but I am definitely signing up for it when the English server drops - as are all the people I play 7 Days with. In fact they were my original PSO crew. It's through that game we all met up and have been playing as a group ever since!! If PSO2 is as addicting as PSO was, I can see me staying with the game for a long time.

 

One question....I would never have described PSO as an MMO. I know many people can meet at the station hubs, but there was no open world, and all expeditions were instanced and max 4 people. Is PSO2 different?

 

- - - Updated - - -

 

so from what im been thinking, how about this:

There is 7th tab im the perks menu, called action skills, all having a max of 100 levels.

You cannot put points manually in these skills.

These skills are separate from the perks, meaning no perks are tied to any specific level in the similar action skill.

There are skills for all weapons and some other skills, for example:

 

Pistols

Rifles

Shotguns

Archery

Bladed weapons

Blunt weapons

Fist weapons

Explosive weapons

Technological/misc weapons

(the spears could either have its own category, or maybe they could fit into Bladed weapons?)

All weapons would gain like, +0,3% increased damage per level.

 

Mining: (dealing damage to blocks with tools) +0,5% block damage

Athletics: (spending stamina) +0,3% stamima regen

Bartering: (buying and selling goods) +0,3% trading efficency

Scavenging: (looting) +1 to gamestage loot

Construction: (crafting and upgrading) +0,3% crafting speed and +0,5% upgrade speed

 

Drool. Yes please....

[Marinxar]

Hello survivors!

If i remember right, madmole mentioned in one of his videos that you should always get something more from perks than just unlocked recipies, so you wont feel you wasted points if you find the schematic later.

 

The perks "Living of the land", "Yeah, Science" and "Grease monkey" still contains ranks where you gain no additional effect other than recipie unlocks.

This should be looked in to!

 

Extra effects could include simple things like faster crafting time, cheaper crafting cost... Or more complex effects like unlocking a small chance of getting a seed from another crop-type when harvesting crops, or decrease fuel consumption when driving vehicles?

 

Whats your thoughts?

 

Agreed...those are nothing but placeholders. I never put points in those,as the recipes are easy enough to come by, and cooked food has very little advantage over what you get in Buried Treasure chests, and once you can make bacon and eggs, you dont need the expensive farming anyway.

[HungryZombie]

Agreed...those are nothing but placeholders. I never put points in those,as the recipes are easy enough to come by, and cooked food has very little advantage over what you get in Buried Treasure chests, and once you can make bacon and eggs, you dont need the expensive farming anyway.

 

You are truly able to sustain yourself over many days with just bacon and eggs? Eggs is a huge bottleneck for me. After a week of play I found a total of 18 eggs.

[madmole]

Hello survivors!

If i remember right, madmole mentioned in one of his videos that you should always get something more from perks than just unlocked recipies, so you wont feel you wasted points if you find the schematic later.

 

The perks "Living of the land", "Yeah, Science" and "Grease monkey" still contains ranks where you gain no additional effect other than recipie unlocks.

This should be looked in to!

 

Extra effects could include simple things like faster crafting time, cheaper crafting cost... Or more complex effects like unlocking a small chance of getting a seed from another crop-type when harvesting crops, or decrease fuel consumption when driving vehicles?

 

Whats your thoughts?

 

Living off the land lets you harvest more, that is huge. We're adding a farm plot crafting discount to ranks 2 and 3 in an upcoming update. Grease Monkey reduces cost of parts needed to craft vehicles and will have more when we do a substantial vehicle update.

[madmole]

I feel the general concept that Perks can unlock recipes that are also loot-able and purchasable from traders is a bad design. It gives rise to all of the following possibilities, none of which result in a positive player experience...

 

1) The schematic never drops, so you are forced into Perks you didn't really want to be (e.g that damn Crucible forced me to Int 10)

 

2) The schematics drop after you bit the bullet and bought the Perk.

 

3) More often than not, both of the above!!! Grrrrrrrrrr.

 

4) Some of the schematics drop, but you end up missing a crucial one to complete the set (usually occurs with vehicles)

 

So in short, I think schematics should either be loot/buy only OR Perk only. Not both.

 

That was how alpha 17 was, and nobody liked it. Its a choice which is good. Shall I keep looking or bite the bullet and spend my perk points on this? We're adding more weight to the perks all the time.

[madmole]

Don't get me started on that topic. That Perk reset elixir should never have been added to the game imo.

 

So don't use it? Who cares what other people spend their money on?

[Gothyc]

Living off the land lets you harvest more, that is huge. We're adding a farm plot crafting discount to ranks 2 and 3 in an upcoming update. Grease Monkey reduces cost of parts needed to craft vehicles and will have more when we do a substantial vehicle update.

 

Great news! Thanks for sharing that, Madmole.

[Orclover]

Grease Monkey 5 should give a discount for fuel consumption (a hefty one) for all vehicles. 50% discount on a bike is not a big deal. 50% discount on a helicopter? Huge. Maybe Grease monkey should make vehicles faster even.

[Ghostlight]

So don't use it? Who cares what other people spend their money on?

 

I certainly won't use it but it defeats the whole "pick a build" theory. Int builds should be rewarded with the things that make Int build distinctive....Steel, high level science items, electric traps, the top tier vehicles, the best turrets etc etc. As it is, everyone will just spec to Int, build whatever they want then respec out again. Since none of the top tier stuff I'm talking about is ever destroyed or lost (other than traps but they can be spam-crafted prior to respec), it just cheeses the Int attribute. I prefer "choices matter" approach to RPGs (and let's face it we are firmly heading to RPG territory).

 

 

 

 

Living off the land lets you harvest more, that is huge. We're adding a farm plot crafting discount to ranks 2 and 3 in an upcoming update. Grease Monkey reduces cost of parts needed to craft vehicles and will have more when we do a substantial vehicle update.

 

There is no point whatsoever in putting more than 1 point in LoftL as far as I am concerned. You'd have to add a lot more than a discount to Plots to make it worthwhile. Food is trivial now with or without Farm Plots. Even if you want to go down the farming route (I was feeding 4 in one play-through), that 1 point giving double yield is more than enough - you will find the seeds you need or the recipes. Our larder is overflowing with excess Corn, Potatoes and Mushrooms with just the 1 point.