My issue(s) with Farm Plots

[Hek Harris]

I agree. Rotten meat is only "abundant" if you think a 5x5 farm is enough. Since I started playing in A15, I always loved farming, and I'd go industrial scale. Hundreds of plants. 10x10 of each crop. Now on day 22 (120 minute days), I have 36 farm plots. I've resigned to the fact that I will only be able to do 10 plants of each type, and even that is going to take ages. I have collected every scrap of rotten meat I've seen. Carcasses, body bags vultures, dogs, even hunted zombie bears in the bear den.

 

Nitrate is not a problem. Rotten flesh is. Either make it more abundant somehow, or lower the cost of the recipe by half. I don't think it'd be unreasonable to be able to have ~70 plots (up from 36 for me) on day 22 if you've gone out of your way to gather all the rotten flesh you see since day 1.

 

EDIT: Oh, and yes, I even went and got a couple points in Huntsman to increase yield. It's not helping much with the rotten flesh.

You have the right to love creating large farms. But if TFP allow it, it removes the survival aspect of the game. It's like saying "I like having all the weapons of every color and all the statistics, so it should be easier to get hold of weapons. " It may be good for a collector, but not so good for the gameplay.

 

With 20 farm plots, you are autonomous. Beyond that, it's only for the aesthetics of an industrial farm. Better to mod the game or use creative for that.

[Synvastian]

well, I tend to actually hunt zombears/dogs and vultures (not ripping into anyone) so I don't tend to have an issue with plots so far, doing a Fireman playthrough (A focused RP where my only melee is a fireaxe {stone axe as a weapon until I find a fireaxe} and looking for all Fireman's almanac books) and on day 4 I have 12 plots and the stuff to make I think 3 more (nomad, 90 min days 50% night{12hr day, 12hr night}, zeds sprint at night, vanilla days)

 

I mean, yeah it is a bit of an issue to find enough quickly if you don't seek it out as your goal, but it also isn't too hard either...but that's my experience and opinion

[RipClaw]

Nitrate is not a problem. Rotten flesh is. Either make it more abundant somehow, or lower the cost of the recipe by half. I don't think it'd be unreasonable to be able to have ~70 plots (up from 36 for me) on day 22 if you've gone out of your way to gather all the rotten flesh you see since day 1..

 

I can confirm that. I went on a big grinding tour for 2 days. I harvested every roadkill, looted 2 doggos and killed 5 or 6 vultures. Then I was able to make 20 farming plots.

 

With normal gameplay I would have needed 2-3 weeks for this amount.

 

I guess I have to lower my expectations about what farming means. I'll probably plant a maximum of five per crop so I can get a slight surplus of veggie stews.

[dex314]

I agree. Rotten meat is only "abundant" if you think a 5x5 farm is enough. Since I started playing in A15, I always loved farming, and I'd go industrial scale. Hundreds of plants. 10x10 of each crop. Now on day 22 (120 minute days), I have 36 farm plots. I've resigned to the fact that I will only be able to do 10 plants of each type, and even that is going to take ages. I have collected every scrap of rotten meat I've seen. Carcasses, body bags vultures, dogs, even hunted zombie bears in the bear den.

 

Nitrate is not a problem. Rotten flesh is. Either make it more abundant somehow, or lower the cost of the recipe by half. I don't think it'd be unreasonable to be able to have ~70 plots (up from 36 for me) on day 22 if you've gone out of your way to gather all the rotten flesh you see since day 1.

 

EDIT: Oh, and yes, I even went and got a couple points in Huntsman to increase yield. It's not helping much with the rotten flesh.

 

I agree. The fact of the matter is many people are saying "well you will have enough IF you harvest every corpse tile, every dog, every zombie bear AND go into the desert and kill birds all day" but honestly, it's putting a seed in the ground. People don't want to spend all of their time hunting for rotten flesh just to do something that should be as simple as digging a hole and putting in a seed. I get all the other arguments about balance etc, but this is a sandbox game, not a farming simulator. There are other things to do besides hunting for rotten flesh, as there SHOULD be. A person should not have to dedicate all their effort just to build a meager 5 plots when they could just loot houses instead for canned food. It disrupts the sandbox variety of playstyles by implementing too harsh a bottleneck in one avenue.

[Laz Man]

I agree. The fact of the matter is many people are saying "well you will have enough IF you harvest every corpse tile, every dog, every zombie bear AND go into the desert and kill birds all day" but honestly, it's putting a seed in the ground. People don't want to spend all of their time hunting for rotten flesh just to do something that should be as simple as digging a hole and putting in a seed. I get all the other arguments about balance etc, but this is a sandbox game, not a farming simulator. There are other things to do besides hunting for rotten flesh, as there SHOULD be. A person should not have to dedicate all their effort just to build a meager 5 plots when they could just loot houses instead for canned food. It disrupts the sandbox variety of playstyles by implementing too harsh a bottleneck in one avenue.

 

For now the best thing to do is mod it the way you want. Hopefully, a more creative friendly /sandbox mode will be implemented at some point. The vanilla game mode is being balanced with a certain progression in mind.

[Jedo]

I get all the other arguments about balance etc, but this is a sandbox game, not a farming simulator. There are other things to do besides hunting for rotten flesh, as there SHOULD be.

But it's not a sandbox game, at least not in that traditional sense. It is a survival game. As you say, there are other things to do, and in fact, other things you have to do. That's the point. You have to make choices about what is most important at the moment to work toward.

 

Honestly, think about the game as if you actually were trying to survive in an apocalypse (zombie or otherwise). You can't just go make a 10x10 garden for 10 different fruits and vegetables. You wouldn't have time to manage all of that on top of repairing your dwelling, hunting and scouting, protecting yourself from threats, etc. You probably would have to start small, and as you had extra time or resources, expand on what you have. It basically is the same here.

 

Gardening and building always have been my favorite parts of this game. I loved getting my tree farm up with my plants because those things meant that I was moving toward self-sufficiency and away from the hard scrabble of scrounging around to survive. That's the thing, though, is I always had to work toward it (sometimes because RNG was a bitch and wouldn't give me a hoe). The same is true now. My garden has been slowly expanding, and I'm proud of it. It has been work, but that is as it should be in a survival game.

 

If you want a sandbox game, the creative menu is there for you.

[OzHawkeye]

You have the right to love creating large farms. But if TFP allow it, it removes the survival aspect of the game. It's like saying "I like having all the weapons of every color and all the statistics, so it should be easier to get hold of weapons. " It may be good for a collector, but not so good for the gameplay.

 

With 20 farm plots, you are autonomous. Beyond that, it's only for the aesthetics of an industrial farm. Better to mod the game or use creative for that.

 

I have agree with Hek Harris here.

 

Industrial scale farming isn't intended, and if you want to do that, mod it in, there's precious little reason to have even a moderately sized farm, let alone a massive one, so the game should be balanced to building that moderate farm only.

[dex314]

I have agree with Hek Harris here.

 

Industrial scale farming isn't intended, and if you want to do that, mod it in, there's precious little reason to have even a moderately sized farm, let alone a massive one, so the game should be balanced to building that moderate farm only.

 

This isn't a question about industrial sized farming as it is about initial gatekeeping. People on my server are lvl 50-72 (and there around about 200 players that rotate in and out) and very few people have more than 3 farm plots. That said if industrial farming doesn't have a purpose as you say, then there shouldn't be mechanics in place to discourage building them. Some people just want them for a variety of reasons, and that should be enough to allow them if they don't break the game. That said, farming has never been an unfair advantage. It's something that has added immersion, because honestly any player with a decent gun or even a melee weapon never starves in 72d2. It's something the pimps have discussed at length and have decided that its really the threat of zombies, not starvation that is key. So allowing farms is not what breaks the survival aspect of the game. Instead, farming allows for variety of foods, recipes and even medical care which adds a more immersive and interesting approach to survival. Honestly, no one with the capacity to farm has ever suffered for lack of food--there are far too many other routes.

 

- - - Updated - - -

 

But it's not a sandbox game, at least not in that traditional sense. It is a survival game. As you say, there are other things to do, and in fact, other things you have to do. That's the point. You have to make choices about what is most important at the moment to work toward.

 

Honestly, think about the game as if you actually were trying to survive in an apocalypse (zombie or otherwise). You can't just go make a 10x10 garden for 10 different fruits and vegetables. You wouldn't have time to manage all of that on top of repairing your dwelling, hunting and scouting, protecting yourself from threats, etc. You probably would have to start small, and as you had extra time or resources, expand on what you have. It basically is the same here.

 

Gardening and building always have been my favorite parts of this game. I loved getting my tree farm up with my plants because those things meant that I was moving toward self-sufficiency and away from the hard scrabble of scrounging around to survive. That's the thing, though, is I always had to work toward it (sometimes because RNG was a bitch and wouldn't give me a hoe). The same is true now. My garden has been slowly expanding, and I'm proud of it. It has been work, but that is as it should be in a survival game.

 

If you want a sandbox game, the creative menu is there for you.

 

I think you are over estimating the intended survival state of the game. And you already do make choices about what you do with farming, such as harvesting, planting, hoeing etc. You cannot break it down to infinite granularity just to make a point because then we'd have to decide whether or not to tie our shoes or shoot a deer. As I mentioned in another comment, farming has never given an unfair advantage since food is basically everywhere on the map. What it does is it allows variety and a different approach to food that some people enjoy over hunting of looting buildings. I presume the difference between where these comments come from are the context of their games. In single player, grind as much as you want, but we have a server of people who despite being high levels cannot make any farm plots. The farming mechanic is essentially removed from the game because of a lack of rotten flesh on the map. If you want to gatekeep it, at least do it with something attainable, but this notion of making something annoying just because it shouldnt be easy is not the right way to approach it.

[AshaMarie]

It is painful to get enough rotten meat for the plots at first, but you can find ones at some POI houses. It would be nice if we could dig them up and use them for ourselves. I would not mind seeing some sold at trader either if it doesn't already. I also assume the perk to get extra resources from animals has a use for rotten meat too. I had a dog horde earlier today and got about 100-120 rotten meat from that without the perk to get more resources.

[Gothyc]

I use a machete and 2 ranks of Huntsman. Not noticing much a difference in rotten meat yield.

 

We used to be able to dig up POI farm plots, but it was removed as it was "too OP".

[Gothyc]

You have the right to love creating large farms. But if TFP allow it, it removes the survival aspect of the game. It's like saying "I like having all the weapons of every color and all the statistics, so it should be easier to get hold of weapons. " It may be good for a collector, but not so good for the gameplay.

 

With 20 farm plots, you are autonomous. Beyond that, it's only for the aesthetics of an industrial farm. Better to mod the game or use creative for that.

 

I agree that with the advent of perks to harvest more yield per plot, a balance was needed. I have, as stated in my earlier post, resigned to the fact that I'll never again be able to industrial scale farming to support my group.

 

But still, 36 plots by day 22 (120 minute days) going all in with perks and activity prioritization to maximize it? I consider 10 of each crop a minimum to be able to call it a farm at all. Otherwise it's just a little garden, and the game feature should be renamed as such. Gardening. I'm not interested in decorating my base with a farm plot in a corner, (there's potted plants for that). I want a meaningful system for creating food. We already have the food poisoning to balance out farming, so I don't think it's unreasonable to be able to have a small farm with 10 of each crop by the time you reach mid game.

[Chronosphere]

i dont understand why you gotta complain about a farm, first of all loot is increased and u swim in food anyways within day 3 again why do u bother complain about something we DONT actually are needing. anwyays. do you have to much time to complain about stuff you dont need just for the sake of it? i had 150 meat first day.

[Gothyc]

i dont understand why you gotta complain about a farm, first of all loot is increased and u swim in food anyways within day 3 again why do u bother complain about something we DONT actually are needing. anwyays. do you have to much time to complain about stuff you dont need just for the sake of it? i had 150 meat first day.

 

I imagine that's directed to all of us who advocated for slightly easier farming in this thread?

 

Well, how about we reverse your argument? Let's remove all food from the game, other than what you can get from farming. How many complaints do you think we'd get? Why not cater to more than one playstyle? In the big patch notes for A18, Fun Pimps mention identifying a few different playstyles that they want to cater to. Sure, there it's in regards to xp gain, but previously there's also been a balance in being able to sustain yourself through a multitude of playstyles. This is especially beneficial in multiplayer games.

 

To make a long story short, they know there are players who enjoy other aspects of the game than killing/looting 100% of the time, and they say they want to cater to the other playstyles as well. Personally, I am arguing from the assumption that they actually mean what they say.

[Hek Harris]

I really don't understand all that noise about farming. Playing as a farmer is only a matter of choice.

[Gothyc]

I really don't understand all that noise about farming. Playing as a farmer is only a matter of choice.

 

Ever heard that phrase "This game checks all my boxes"?

 

I really don't understand why a game containing an element you don't enjoy bothers you as long as it contains the elements you DO enjoy.

[OzHawkeye]

This isn't a question about industrial sized farming as it is about initial gatekeeping. People on my server are lvl 50-72 (and there around about 200 players that rotate in and out) and very few people have more than 3 farm plots. That said if industrial farming doesn't have a purpose as you say, then there shouldn't be mechanics in place to discourage building them. Some people just want them for a variety of reasons, and that should be enough to allow them if they don't break the game. That said, farming has never been an unfair advantage. It's something that has added immersion, because honestly any player with a decent gun or even a melee weapon never starves in 72d2. It's something the pimps have discussed at length and have decided that its really the threat of zombies, not starvation that is key. So allowing farms is not what breaks the survival aspect of the game. Instead, farming allows for variety of foods, recipes and even medical care which adds a more immersive and interesting approach to survival. Honestly, no one with the capacity to farm has ever suffered for lack of food--there are far too many other routes.

 

Level 72 and still only 3 farm plots? Really? What they been doin' for those 72 levels? I'm level 60 and have more than finished my farm, I've got 8 rows of 12 plots each and did absolutely nothing to go out of my way to collect the rotten flesh. Granted, I'm playing SP, but I'd be surprised if MP was that(!) much different????

[Jedo]

I think you are over estimating the intended survival state of the game. And you already do make choices about what you do with farming, such as harvesting, planting, hoeing etc. You cannot break it down to infinite granularity just to make a point because then we'd have to decide whether or not to tie our shoes or shoot a deer. As I mentioned in another comment, farming has never given an unfair advantage since food is basically everywhere on the map. What it does is it allows variety and a different approach to food that some people enjoy over hunting of looting buildings. I presume the difference between where these comments come from are the context of their games. In single player, grind as much as you want, but we have a server of people who despite being high levels cannot make any farm plots. The farming mechanic is essentially removed from the game because of a lack of rotten flesh on the map. If you want to gatekeep it, at least do it with something attainable, but this notion of making something annoying just because it shouldnt be easy is not the right way to approach it.

Two things:

1) Hyperbole will not be your friend in arguing your point. My argument does not come anywhere close to "infinite granularity," nor does the current farm plot mechanic.

2) This game is not and will not be balanced for massive servers. Speak to your server admin about respawning the sources of rotten flesh.

 

I agree that with the advent of perks to harvest more yield per plot, a balance was needed. I have, as stated in my earlier post, resigned to the fact that I'll never again be able to industrial scale farming to support my group.

 

But still, 36 plots by day 22 (120 minute days) going all in with perks and activity prioritization to maximize it? I consider 10 of each crop a minimum to be able to call it a farm at all. Otherwise it's just a little garden, and the game feature should be renamed as such. Gardening. I'm not interested in decorating my base with a farm plot in a corner, (there's potted plants for that). I want a meaningful system for creating food. We already have the food poisoning to balance out farming, so I don't think it's unreasonable to be able to have a small farm with 10 of each crop by the time you reach mid game.

Ummm, you are not at mid game. Also, I'm about as far along as you (day 40, 60 minute days) and I have close to 60 plots. Grace's place is great if you get a quest there (clear then re-clear). I also went on a cartography expedition and looted all of the corpses along the way. Do you have to work? Yeah, a bit. You have to do the same for cars. So? There's also the matter of luck. You don't always get the same breaks in every game. That's what helps keep it replayable.

[Maynard69]

Level 72 and still only 3 farm plots? Really? What they been doin' for those 72 levels? I'm level 60 and have more than finished my farm, I've got 8 rows of 12 plots each and did absolutely nothing to go out of my way to collect the rotten flesh. Granted, I'm playing SP, but I'd be surprised if MP was that(!) much different????

 

Well, I agree, except for the part about MP. Even when we had 20k maps, there were times that every city on the map was fully looted on servers I have played before. (in between loot respawn) I can easily see all bone piles being gone rather quick on well populated server with an 8k map.

 

I am aware that not more than 8 players are recommended tho. However, much higher is still possible.

[RipClaw]

Level 72 and still only 3 farm plots? Really? What they been doin' for those 72 levels? I'm level 60 and have more than finished my farm, I've got 8 rows of 12 plots each and did absolutely nothing to go out of my way to collect the rotten flesh. Granted, I'm playing SP, but I'd be surprised if MP was that(!) much different????

 

The primary sources of rotten meat are roadkills and zombie animals.

 

On a server with 200 players it is unlikely that there are many roadkills left on the roads. But there are still the zombie animals.

 

For 96 farm plots you need 960 rotten meat.

 

Without a point in Huntsman a vulture gives 3, a zombie dog 4 and a zombie bear 7 rotten meat. With level 5 in Huntsman the vulture gives 3, a zombie dog 9 and a zombie bear 16 rotten meat.

 

Even with 5 points in Huntsman, you'd have to kill 60 Zombie Bears or 106 Zombie Dog or 320 Vultures to get the amount you need.

 

The main problem on crowded servers are that the players share all the ressources. That includes the animals. Farming has always been a means of mitigating this problem, but that is no longer possible. If you run a big server you have to change the recipe for the farm plots.

[RipClaw]

Ummm, you are not at mid game. Also, I'm about as far along as you (day 40, 60 minute days) and I have close to 60 plots. Grace's place is great if you get a quest there (clear then re-clear).

 

If you have it on the map and you find it.

 

I also went on a cartography expedition and looted all of the corpses along the way. Do you have to work? Yeah, a bit. You have to do the same for cars. So? There's also the matter of luck. You don't always get the same breaks in every game. That's what helps keep it replayable.

 

This is the kind of grinding that is not very popular. In the discussion about not being able to harvest zombie corpses then there are many who say they didn't like having to harvest zombie corpses after the horde. Collecting the roadkills is the same.

[katarynna]

The primary sources of rotten meat are roadkills and zombie animals.

 

On a server with 200 players it is unlikely that there are many roadkills left on the roads. But there are still the zombie animals.

 

For 96 farm plots you need 960 rotten meat.

 

Without a point in Huntsman a vulture gives 3, a zombie dog 4 and a zombie bear 7 rotten meat. With level 5 in Huntsman the vulture gives 3, a zombie dog 9 and a zombie bear 16 rotten meat.

 

Even with 5 points in Huntsman, you'd have to kill 60 Zombie Bears or 106 Zombie Dog or 320 Vultures to get the amount you need.

 

The main problem on crowded servers are that the players share all the ressources. That includes the animals. Farming has always been a means of mitigating this problem, but that is no longer possible. If you run a big server you have to change the recipe for the farm plots.

 

The game only officially supports 8 players on a server and that is what they balance for.

 

I think it is entirely reasonable for people who run much larger servers to change recipes, increase dogs/vulture spawns, find a way to reset the roadkills, or find a way to add rotten flesh to the traders or more to loot containers.

 

But I don't think it is reasonable to expect tfp to balance the vanilla game which supports up to 8 people so that the servers with 200 are also ok.

[RipClaw]

The game only officially supports 8 players on a server and that is what they balance for.

 

The game seems to me to be balanced for single player.

 

I think it is entirely reasonable for people who run much larger servers to change recipes, increase dogs/vulture spawns, find a way to reset the roadkills, or find a way to add rotten flesh to the traders or more to loot containers.

 

It's nothing new that server operators modify the game.

 

When you couldn't make oil yourself there were recipes on many servers to make oil. On some servers you can execute a command to spawn an animal in the area so you can hunt something at all.

 

But I don't think it is reasonable to expect tfp to balance the vanilla game which supports up to 8 people so that the servers with 200 are also ok.

 

I don't expect the Fun Pimps to balance the game for these servers. It was just the answer to OzHawkeye's question if multiplayer is really that different from single player.

[pApA^LeGBa]

Totally killed farming for me. There is such a huge amount of canned food, i don´t see why i should go through the hassle of getting enough rotten meat. Also at the point i can make farm plots i have iron guts at a level where i can eat my self cooked meat without danger.

[OzHawkeye]

The primary sources of rotten meat are roadkills and zombie animals.

 

On a server with 200 players it is unlikely that there are many roadkills left on the roads. But there are still the zombie animals.

 

For 96 farm plots you need 960 rotten meat.

 

Without a point in Huntsman a vulture gives 3, a zombie dog 4 and a zombie bear 7 rotten meat. With level 5 in Huntsman the vulture gives 3, a zombie dog 9 and a zombie bear 16 rotten meat.

 

Even with 5 points in Huntsman, you'd have to kill 60 Zombie Bears or 106 Zombie Dog or 320 Vultures to get the amount you need.

 

The main problem on crowded servers are that the players share all the ressources. That includes the animals. Farming has always been a means of mitigating this problem, but that is no longer possible. If you run a big server you have to change the recipe for the farm plots.

 

Yeah, well, given that 200 players is 192 above the officially supported limit, then yeah, modding the recipe to reduce the rotting flesh needed for farm plots would seem to be the way to go for sure.

 

Such a server (and I'm not even meaning 200 concurrent players) would run into many run into many issues around resources that could only be solved through modding, since the game cannot possibly be balanced around such extremes.

[The-Walking-Dad]

I have twelve farm plots. Three potatoes, three corn, three mushrooms (thank you RNG!) and three aloe vera. I love farming, this isn't enough, but I'm starting to feel the benefits of my efforts on day twenty-two.