A18 Thoughts from what i've seen from streamers. Some issues inside.

[Scyris]

Here are my personal thoughts. Based on what I have seen from watching various streamers play.

 

1: The spawn rate outdoors is just far to low.

 

2: The junk turret needs some serious looking at, its OP as hell when placed on the ground. It flinches enemies every shot, can shoot thru the player doing 0 damage to the player and hitting zombies. I seen streamers on warrior+ using it to stunlock zombies while standing in front of the turret and meleeing them at little to no risk. Being able to make the ammo everywhere is also kinda broken considering its JUST scrap iron to make. This is also with 0 perks in anything that buffs the turret. Solution: remove the flinch on each shot, and make it hit the player like normal turrets if player is in the path of the shot, maybe make it take gas or something to power it when its on the ground.

 

3: Heard it takes 30 mins to generate a 8k rwg map, that needs to be fixed imo.

 

4: The steel knuckles and possible lower tier ones can use the weighted head mod which iirc, is usually for stuff like fire axe/pickaxe/sledge etc. Might be an oversight here, or intended.

 

5: leveling to me feels a tad too slow, but maybe when playing it for myself I'll think differently.

 

6: the randomized stats on items doesn't really work well atm when most things have very low base values to begin with. Many items the randomness is only 1 up or down usually, which really makes very little difference.

 

7: Nerfing mod power bonus to 10% with the mentioned low base values makes many mod in things just have very little actual effect due to the low base values. Like a junk turrent with 15 base damage, went to 17 with 2 mods, not really a major diff imo.

 

8: Melee weapons just have way to low of a base stat value with the exception of the sledge, that most will not be viable at all later on when you have ferals or worse everywhere, even fully perked, its going to take far to many hits to kill later game enemies with most melee weapons due to their low base stats. A tier 4 or 5 int guy stun baton had a base damage of 12 or 13. That is far to low, even if its on the low end the high end is probally 15 or 16. Where as clubs/blunts have the highest base stats, so high in fact its higher than most other weapons even when you fully perk into them.

 

Now that those things I consider an issue are delt with, the plusses.

 

I love the new look of everything, game looks better than ever. The new poi's are awesome. New weapons/toys are always nice. Performance seems a ton better from what I seen and heard streamers commenting on. Looting is improved and made extremly worth doing compared to a17. Which was my biggest issue with a17 the lack of a feel of a need to loot as you could always make better than you can find.

[SylenThunder]

2. Yes, the turret does need work I think.

 

3. No. Took me 5-8 minutes.

 

5. Still on the fence on this one, but I think I like how it's working out so far. It's not like it's a hard option to change if you want either.

 

6. I don't believe this feature is fully polished yet. It might not even be complete.

 

7. This will scale with quality though.

 

8. I've been doing ok with clubs and a good mod. I'm not entirely sure what the stun baton is really supposed to do as it hasn't had very much affect on anything I've used it on.

[Xtrakicking]

3. No. Took me 5-8 minutes.

 

I don't know about Alpha 18, but in Alpha 17 it does indeed take at least 20-23 minutes. I highly doubt it's just 5 mins now in Alpha 18 all of the sudden.

[SylenThunder]

Speed is going to depend on your systems resources. The client now uses ALL of the CPU cores when generating the map, instead of just a few of them.

 

I tried making a 12k map, and it put all 24 cores of my server at 97% load.

[Scyris]

Speed is going to depend on your systems resources. The client now uses ALL of the CPU cores when generating the map, instead of just a few of them.

 

I tried making a 12k map, and it put all 24 cores of my server at 97% load.

 

Yeah thats my problem with the weapons, blunts are just as a whole better than anything else, due to their high base damage. Meanwhile most of the rest of the melee weapons are 12-14 damage at best. Like I said, most of the melee weapons just have way to low damage values, which is really going to impact their viability late game. Not to mention the randomized stats don't really do much with the values as low as they are either.

[Roland]

7. This was in response to feedback that people preferred most of the damage increase to weapons to be based on quality tier instead of adding mods. So now mods give very little damage increases but a yellow weapon does more damage than a brown weapon unlike A17.

[Scyris]

7. This was in response to feedback that people preferred most of the damage increase to weapons to be based on quality tier instead of adding mods. So now mods give very little damage increases but a yellow weapon does more damage than a brown weapon unlike A17.

 

Not from what I seen, at most it do a whopping 1 more damage with most of the melee weapons, thats why I said the base damage values on most things are just too low for the randomness/tier bonuses to do much of anything.

[madmole]

No offense but I disagree on everything except the turret needs some tuning.

[Scyris]

No offense but I disagree on everything except the turret needs some tuning.

 

I dunno, I don't see the point in random stats on stuff if the diff between a t3 and a t6 item is 1 entity damage, but thats me, unless it was a very low roll on the t6. Would have to see if the ranges are in the xml's or, is there a way you could put its damage range in the tooltip so people can tell if they got a good one or a bad one?

[Khulkhuum]

I know for a fact that even in A17 weapon damage, range and speed was all over the place. Comparing weapons and tools with "similar reach" or "similar usage" (in quotes because you can argue about things in many aspects about various examples, but that is what I think), comparing Damage Per Second (damage * speed) or per minute brought fun results.

 

Some weapons/tools had too little reach and some variants had too little damage. Supposedly the best weapons and tools (steel) had only a little more damage in some categories, while something like a sledge always had OP damage. I like playing with numbers, seeing patterns here and there. In A15/16 i mostly used knives, because they had high head dismember chance (compared to stuns from clubs it's better to kill faster IMHO).

 

Don't get me wrong, i'm not judging anything in A18, especially as i have not seen much of the streams, have not analyzed them nor played myself. Just saying that i will do a thorough analysis on the weapons sooner or later. Sure we shouldn't look on the numbers only and focus on gameplay, but they do make up the game, just like additional features of weapons/tools (better stunning, better dismemberment, engulfing in flames, making enemies bleed, etc.) are also important.

 

Even talking about all of this, i am not gonna say anything today, tomorrow or even in a week. This is mostly because i don't want to focus only on streamer reactions, base numbers in XMLs or even how i see it personally in the game. I want to feel how it changes throughout levels, with various perks and especially with higher GameStage.

[tricorius]

I dunno, I don't see the point in random stats on stuff if the diff between a t3 and a t6 item is 1 entity damage, but thats me, unless it was a very low roll on the t6. Would have to see if the ranges are in the xml's or, is there a way you could put its damage range in the tooltip so people can tell if they got a good one or a bad one?

 

I would agree with this; though I'm fully biased by my desire to have a bit of range on "rolled" items as I'm a fan of a bit more RPG-ness being tossed into 7DtD. Although I know I'm a bit late to come to this train. (In fact, before I bought it I didn't realize at the time, but I was watching a16 streams; and was drawn to the "level as you do" system. I get why it isn't there, but there is something inherently satisfying to me when you feel progress as your character gets better.)

[Scyris]

I would agree with this; though I'm fully biased by my desire to have a bit of range on "rolled" items as I'm a fan of a bit more RPG-ness being tossed into 7DtD. Although I know I'm a bit late to come to this train. (In fact, before I bought it I didn't realize at the time, but I was watching a16 streams; and was drawn to the "level as you do" system. I get why it isn't there, but there is something inherently satisfying to me when you feel progress as your character gets better.)

 

Most people who played a16 miss that system your not alone. Thankfully mods like darkness falls brings it back with improvements.

[Ghostlight]

1: The spawn rate outdoors is just far to low.

 

Yup my biggest fear from the patch notes. If you feel in danger or need a break from the 'horror' (lol) just chill outdoors away from buildings and you will be 100% safe, even at night. Long drawn-out sigh.

 

- - - Updated - - -

 

I was watching a16 streams; and was drawn to the "level as you do" system. I get why it isn't there, but there is something inherently satisfying to me when you feel progress as your character gets better.)

 

I don't get why it was removed and never will, please explain. For me A16 had one of the best perk/levelling systems I had ever seen in any game, ever, in 40+ years of the hobby. In A17 it was changed to one of the worst.

[tricorius]

Most people who played a16 miss that system your not alone. Thankfully mods like darkness falls brings it back with improvements.

 

Yup. I tend toward preferring "vanilla" play. I don't tend to heavily mod up my games. It's great that it is there as an option for those that want it though. I'm not asking for changes either, just to be clear. I actually quite like 7DtD and it's an interesting journey to see it take shape as its developers envision.

 

I don't get why it was removed and never will, please explain. For me A16 had one of the best perk/levelling systems I had ever seen in any game, ever, in 40+ years of the hobby. In A17 it was changed to one of the worst.

 

The main reason I've seen mentioned is that people were exploiting it by crafting large quantities of low-level items to get high skill levels quickly (which can impact game balance).

 

Personally I think there are ways to fix those issues (don't allow skill-ups for low-level crafts after a certain character skill, etc). But I'm also guessing there were some flavor parts too. (I don't want to put words in the devs' mouths.)

 

Regardless, I think the direction a18 is going (with perk books, etc) is an interesting way to try to solve some of the irritants of the perks-based progression; so I'm looking forward to seeing how that feels in a18.

[Scyris]

Well at least we can agree the junk turret is op as ♥♥♥♥. I've seen it perma stun zombie bears with 0 perks in turret syndrome, the bear couldn't even move. Remove the flinch from each shot, and also make it hit the player if player is in the path of the shot should balance it. Streamer droped junk turret down and went up and punched the zombie bear to death with steel knuckles as it was pretty much flinchlocked by the turret was on warrior difficulty to and if it can flinch lock a zombie bear it'll flinchlock anything.

 

The problem with the junk turret is not its damage, its the flinch on every shot it does no matter what its hitting, and the fact the player can stand in front of it as its shooting and the shots go thru the player hitting the zombie when it should be hitting the player.

 

Then again the whole randomize stat system in a18 is currently pointless with the low base values on most things, Guns seem fine, but even with them I don't see much variance. T3 to T6 item had maybe 1 entity damage difference was 2 junk turrets, the T6 may have been a low roll, but still I think melee weapons/things with low base values need a much higher base damage maybe 50% higher than they do now, so that the randomization actually means something. Because tbh 1 damage up or down is not going to make much if any difference in the long run.

[Ghostlight]

I've just noticed that in streamers games, surface boulders seems super rare now. Please tell me that is not the case. I live this game by mining surface boulders. This would be a game-killer for me.

[Scyris]

I've just noticed that in streamers games, surface boulders seems super rare now. Please tell me that is not the case. I live this game by mining surface boulders. This would be a game-killer for me.

 

From what I seen mentioned surface boulders don't give raw iron etc they just give stone, but don't quote me on that. Besides a18 has made mining a complete joke, just look for the indicator of the ore you want and dig under it.

 

Another issue I have with a18 is the poor weapon balance, a iron club for example has higher damage than a steel spear does, or the steel knuckles for that matter. I suppose, the spear is balanced as it has a farther reach, but the knuckles being lower is a big nono for how close you need to get. Hunting knife also has pathethic damage, even with a few perks into it, you'd still be better off with a iron club, due to the hunting knifes low base damage value. Sure you can argue it can bleed, but generally you want stuff dead quick, not to slowly bleed out. Machete is fine though, but the hunting knife needs a boost, as does the stun baton as the stun batons base damage is so pathethic i'd never consider using it, its a waste of time when a wooden club can hit harder. Which sadly is the state of most of the new weapons, the wood/iron club is just better as a whole than most of the new melee weapons.

[HungryZombie]

Take away the turrets stun and I would not even bother with it.

[Ghostlight]

From what I seen mentioned surface boulders don't give raw iron etc they just give stone

 

Well that sucks. Never once dug a mine in this game. Never want to. Boulder mining was much more efficient.

[Scyris]

Take away the turrets stun and I would not even bother with it.

 

The stun is what makes it overpowered and makes the game easy mode though, its the main problem with it. Take away the flinch every shot and it'd still be helpful just not overpowered, its still basically free damage. Its so OP i've seen several streamers basically depending on it, but that might be indicative of a bigger issue of most of the melee weapons just being underpowered in general. I don't plan on using it in my SP games as I said its way to damn overpowered in its current state and takes most of the challenge away from combat, and this was watching a streamer who has the zombies set to always run. It'd be even more broken on standart settings as the zombies would have no chance to get to you at all when walking.

 

The worse is when I seen streamers place it behind a door, aggro a room then run thru the door and close it and sit there as the turret kills them all. Its even worse that it awards exp for these kills, imo the player should have to hit them at least once to get exp from junk turret kills to prevent that door cheese.

 

The point you said about the stun being the only reason you use it, helps prove that its overpowered. I'd use it even without the stun as its easy to place, easy to make ammo for, and it autoaims and is just free damage.

[Scyris]

Well that sucks. Never once dug a mine in this game. Never want to. Boulder mining was much more efficient.

 

Its not so bad, the ore is literally on the top layer of ground the indicator is, you don't have to actually dig for it. Just hit the ground around where the chunk is that indicates what it is and you'll get some right away even on the top layer your standing on. Its even easier mining than in a17.

[CrypticGirl]

I was able to play it briefly with one of the streamers, and the biggest gripe for me was that most of my stone arrows would go through the zombies' heads. With the bird nests being rarer, that could spell disaster.

 

I could deal with the rarer nests if only my arrows could actually hit the target...

[War3zuk]

Cant play, Generated 3 new worlds NO mods & im starting at bed rock with the map around me so cant move at all lol great job

[tricorius]

Cant play, Generated 3 new worlds NO mods & im starting at bed rock with the map around me so cant move at all lol great job

 

Well, I mean...you *CAN* play. Just not with the generated world.

 

You can always play Navizgane or one of the three pregenerated random worlds.

 

I had this same problem, wanted to play, so I went with pregen1 and it works fine.

 

I'll eventually toss a bug up on the forum for the random gen issue. Glad to know at least someone else is having it too.

 

For me it is generating a HUGE plateau or something with a deep narrow valley all the way to bedrock. When I spawn in, I fall down the 1 wide block cutting through the plateau . I then die, respawn at the bottom, can't get my backpack and can only walk forward or backward. Heehee. I love alpha testing. It's the best.