Horde Night is DEAD

[FA_Q2]

Is this magical Blood Moon EMP going to disable the logout button as well?

 

Just what battery/electronics in the bicycle did it impair?

 

Especially as the game now supports disabling the Blood Moon Horde right there in the in-game menu options, why are you so worked up about what other people do during the Blood Moon? However they choose to disable it, they will, and there's no system TFP could (reasonably) put in place that will stop that.

 

Sure there is. They need to implement a system that integrates it into play. It would not even be that hard as a few of the ideas posted here would work. Disabling vehicles would work but many don't like the immersive impact that brings. I think specific AV zeds are the way to go. Then you can drive away from the horde but you will have a different challenge to face and one that could bring horde night back for those that are jaded with the TD aspect.

 

 

As you pointed out, there is an option to remove it now. All anyone is really asking for is those that CHOSE TO PLAY with the horde on have something that is not gimmicky or without challenge. If I have horde night enabled then it should be implemented in a way that makes them have real impact to game play.

 

- - - Updated - - -

 

What are you even saying? I know this. If the reward is something you require, then it solves both perspectives.

 

?

 

You have been arguing that HN needs a reward. I am stating that is not the case. It needs to be a part of game play that is integrated so that a reward is not the point.

[AtomicUs5000]

You have been arguing that HN needs a reward. I am stating that is not the case. It needs to be a part of game play that is integrated so that a reward is not the point.

 

Yes, but we've established that survival can be its own reward if, like you just said in the previous post, it has that kind of impact.

[OzHawkeye]

As you pointed out, there is an option to remove it now. All anyone is really asking for is those that CHOSE TO PLAY with the horde on have something that is not gimmicky or without challenge. If I have horde night enabled then it should be implemented in a way that makes them have real impact to game play.

 

I've no objection to that at all, indeed, as someone who plays with the Horde on, I want it to be really meaningful and the "radiated rain/blood rain" sounds like a nice way of doing it, especially if it could be paired with a boss type high loot zombie as a reward for defeating the Horde.

 

But, let this conversation not obscure the fact that no system will prevent players from skipping Hordes even when they're configured, and from skipping it quite easily at that. What I think the thread ought to concentrate on (and seems to have been more or less over the last few pages), is working out ways that could make the BM Horde more interesting and more rewarding, and if that became the case, then people should care even less than they already should that some people skip the Horde.

[AtomicUs5000]

Anybody ever see "The Rain" on Netflix? It just dawned on me that this is pretty similar. It's a post-apocalyptic series with the story that rain carries a virus that wiped out most of humanity. Second season should be coming this month.

 

Blood rain in real life is theorized to be red because it carries either microorganisms or spores.

 

Putting these together, and also to fit into the lore.... too much exposure to the blood rain could also have a chance of giving infection.

[mr.natural]

......

 

They should choose a server with less frequent blood moons, or play a team where at least someone will be present. How can anybody plan a game for the people who aren't playing?

 

 

Completely out of context and irrelevant.

 

To clarify, I was talking in relation to penalizing players logging off before Blood Moon for 'legit' reasons. Or the ideas about Zombies attacking bases 'offline'.

[RestInPieces]

But, let this conversation not obscure the fact that no system will prevent players from skipping Hordes even when they're configured, and from skipping it quite easily at that. What I think the thread ought to concentrate on (and seems to have been more or less over the last few pages), is working out ways that could make the BM Horde more interesting and more rewarding, and if that became the case, then people should care even less than they already should that some people skip the Horde.

 

Your point is logical, however, as I see it, players being able to log out should not be accounted for at all, when it comes to deciding gameplay design.

 

I am not completely against BM rewards, however I disagree with a concept of a BM, that players want to participate, mainly because of rewards. I find that there is a logical fallacy in this concept, which is apparent, if you wonder what the purpose of any kind of reward is:

 

1) Players choose to voluntary participate in the BM in order to "get rewarded".

2) The purpose of any reward (item/perk) is survival.

3) BM is by far the most threatening event for your survival. *Return to 1) and loop until that makes sense.*

 

Unless we want the BM to be a "rewarding" event just for the sake of being rewarded, which is meaningless if you think how the above loop works, the BM must be a non-optional event, in which you just have to participate and defend successfully or lose something important. It's the only way.

 

To account for people who 1) choose to enable the BM and later 2) log out during the BM, doesn't make a lick of sense to me, while that option exists. Unless TFP plan to send some of their pimp goons to rough up people that log out, we should stop being concerned whether the BM can be skipped because people may decide to stop playing the game.

 

Completely out of context and irrelevant.

 

To clarify, I was talking in relation to penalizing players logging off before Blood Moon for 'legit' reasons. Or the ideas about Zombies attacking bases 'offline'.

 

Let's end this "what if people quit the game" madness, especially when the BM is already optional through menu options, and focus the discussion on something that is not completely asinine.

 

Anybody ever see "The Rain" on Netflix? It just dawned on me that this is pretty similar. It's a post-apocalyptic series with the story that rain carries a virus that wiped out most of humanity. Second season should be coming this month.

 

Blood rain in real life is theorized to be red because it carries either microorganisms or spores.

 

Putting these together, and also to fit into the lore.... too much exposure to the blood rain could also have a chance of giving infection.

 

It has 6.3 on imdb... Watching it happen in the game would probably be more entertaining.

[mr.natural]

....

 

 

Let's end this "what if people quit the game" madness, especially when the BM is already optional through menu options, and focus the discussion on something that is not completely asinine.

 

 

No YOU should end this Punish madness

 

You still miss to point I was making, IT CAN'T BE DONE because.

[RestInPieces]

No YOU should end this Punish madness

 

You still miss to point I was making, IT CAN'T BE DONE because.

 

Everyone must be punished! And I demand the spoilage acronym to be renamed from SBD (spoilage by decay) to S&M (spoilage & management)! (as a tribute to Metallica ofc what did you think)

[mr.natural]

Now that's funny, lol

[akram22]

we can discuss the theory of " zombie scaled with poi " and not scaled with level, and of course the loot is scaled with poi too, so the usual ranger station wont have the gunsafe any more ??

[RestInPieces]

we can discuss the theory of " zombie scaled with poi " and not scaled with level, and of course the loot is scaled with poi too, so the usual ranger station wont have the gunsafe any more ??

 

This needs its own thread, let's not mix up the discussion.

[Khulkhuum]

Why not add a sprinter zombie, something like spider zombie, but very fast and very weak. This would make an ideal enemy for chasing vehicles when a player decides to run, at the same time being easy to dispatch if you're on foot (you can't fight while driving). Apart from pestering the players on vehicles, it could be a nice addition to make a sprinter zombie bloodmoon horde on some lower GS.

 

Considering various other types of Zs that could be added (and are not some supernatural mutants):

- Slender - slim, tall enemy with long arms, hard to hit melee as it has higher range than regular Zs, yet lower HP

- Midget - small, almost child like, fast on its feet, but can't hit hard. There were in a few games monsters made from children (Dead Space for instance), but i think it would be too much for 7DTD.

- Creeper - Draped in clothes that conceal it, as well as limit the sounds it could send out. Pretty regular on the inside, yet somewhat slower and very difficult to spot and hear.

- Volatile - Bulged more than the cop and spitting in the same way, very low HP but explodes when dying, no matter what. Explosion does semi-high damage to both blocks and entities, but he can be easily dispatched with single bullets from afar.

 

Additionally you can modify the current Zs to make them have some depth:

- Biker and Utillity Worker reworked - Head protection decreases chances to dismemberment of head (managable through XML edits)

- Soldier and hazmat reworked - Just like above, but armor provides protection against damage (managable through XML edits)

- Fat enemies reworked - Make their speed lower, i don't expect them to sprint like Usain Bolt, they already have higher HP and could have higher damage (managable through XML edits)

[Viktoriusiii]

Your point is logical, however, as I see it, players being able to log out should not be accounted for at all, when it comes to deciding gameplay design.

 

7D2D: "Players can log out so other blood moon skips should not be fixed!"

 

GTA SA: "Players can use cheatcodes so why don't we let him win instantly?"

 

Minecraft: "Players can play on peaceful, so lets not spawn any agressive mobs on hard."

 

Ingame design should try and fix its gameplay, even when an out of game action can break the gameplay.

THAT is player choice. Doing it ingame is destroying your own gamedesign.

[AtomicUs5000]

Completely out of context and irrelevant.

 

To clarify, I was talking in relation to penalizing players logging off before Blood Moon for 'legit' reasons. Or the ideas about Zombies attacking bases 'offline'.

 

I would probably limit it to just one attack. It wouldn't be the end of the world (in this regard, technically it is the end of the world, but I digress). There's no need to completely shred someone's work... just provide some inconvenience. If the player has not logged back in for a long time, then the server settings of shutting off their LCB after x days would probably kick in anyway.

 

- - - Updated - - -

 

Your point is logical, however, as I see it, players being able to log out should not be accounted for at all, when it comes to deciding gameplay design.

 

I am not completely against BM rewards, however I disagree with a concept of a BM, that players want to participate, mainly because of rewards. I find that there is a logical fallacy in this concept, which is apparent, if you wonder what the purpose of any kind of reward is:

 

1) Players choose to voluntary participate in the BM in order to "get rewarded".

2) The purpose of any reward (item/perk) is survival.

3) BM is by far the most threatening event for your survival. *Return to 1) and loop until that makes sense.*

 

Unless we want the BM to be a "rewarding" event just for the sake of being rewarded, which is meaningless if you think how the above loop works, the BM must be a non-optional event, in which you just have to participate and defend successfully or lose something important. It's the only way.

 

To account for people who 1) choose to enable the BM and later 2) log out during the BM, doesn't make a lick of sense to me, while that option exists. Unless TFP plan to send some of their pimp goons to rough up people that log out, we should stop being concerned whether the BM can be skipped because people may decide to stop playing the game.

 

 

 

Let's end this "what if people quit the game" madness, especially when the BM is already optional through menu options, and focus the discussion on something that is not completely asinine.

 

 

 

It has 6.3 on imdb... Watching it happen in the game would probably be more entertaining.

 

Oh yeah, didn't say it was any good, lol. I only watched the first few episodes to see what it was all about.

[OzHawkeye]

7D2D: "Players can log out so other blood moon skips should not be fixed!"

 

GTA SA: "Players can use cheatcodes so why don't we let him win instantly?"

 

Minecraft: "Players can play on peaceful, so lets not spawn any agressive mobs on hard."

 

Ingame design should try and fix its gameplay, even when an out of game action can break the gameplay.

THAT is player choice. Doing it ingame is destroying your own gamedesign.

 

There's only so much TFP can do.

 

They can't disable the Logout button (realistically) any more than they can lock in Gamma settings (at all). I'm a big believer in "fighting the battles you can actually win", and those two examples there are both unwinnable battles. So, why spend time/effort/money (all much the same thing in the end) trying to?

[Viktoriusiii]

There's only so much TFP can do.

 

They can't disable the Logout button (realistically) any more than they can lock in Gamma settings (at all). I'm a big believer in "fighting the battles you can actually win", and those two examples there are both unwinnable battles. So, why spend time/effort/money (all much the same thing in the end) trying to?

 

again PLEASE LISTEN:

 

TFPs should not "fix" people logging out, changing gamma, using cheatengines in singleplayer, changing xml files and so on.

NOBODY IS ASKING THEM TO.

 

TFPs SHOULD fix ingame problems. People standing on a block avoiding zombies is an ingame problem.

Zombies not beeing able to dig downwards is an ingame problem.

Players beeing save on top of big pois is an ingame problem

 

 

THERE IS A DIFFERENCE.

And they SHOULD try and fix all ingame "exploits". This is required for a game to feel challenging.

Just because I can simply open the console commands doesnt make the game easier because it has nothing to do with the ingame design.

But if they give me a minibike which lets me avoid the horde, this seems an intended way. Which is bad.

[OzHawkeye]

again PLEASE LISTEN:

 

TFPs should not "fix" people logging out, changing gamma, using cheatengines in singleplayer, changing xml files and so on.

NOBODY IS ASKING THEM TO.

 

TFPs SHOULD fix ingame problems. People standing on a block avoiding zombies is an ingame problem.

Zombies not beeing able to dig downwards is an ingame problem.

Players beeing save on top of big pois is an ingame problem

 

 

THERE IS A DIFFERENCE.

And they SHOULD try and fix all ingame "exploits". This is required for a game to feel challenging.

Just because I can simply open the console commands doesnt make the game easier because it has nothing to do with the ingame design.

But if they give me a minibike which lets me avoid the horde, this seems an intended way. Which is bad.

 

Well, your prior post was unclear, at least to me.

 

This post makes it clear, and we're agreed, things like Logout buttons and Gamma settings are beyond TFP's scope.

 

And I'm all for a thematically consistent mechanic that makes riding around on a minibike all night during the BM either dangerous, unrewarding (compared to facing the BM Horde) or both.

[Viktoriusiii]

I'm very glad that we fixed this misunderstanding then ^^

[AtomicUs5000]

I haven’t looked too much into all of the modding threads just yet, but I have enough to safely say that a mod like this will not be exactly easy even though the concept is so sweet and simple. Very little of this can be done with XML/xpath. They have a good system started with this modding support, but it is very limited. I basically would have to decompile the source code, deobfuscate, and hope that I do so well enough in order to read through it and find things to be able to hook into with scripts. Perhaps it’s not that bad once you’re into it. I’ll find out eventually. I am left confused because of how much it pushed that this game is great with mods, and yet in order to actually do that with any real creativity, you have to jump through hoops.

[FA_Q2]

Radioactive rain - good idea. I think that is likely the best yet - gives the player the ability to bail last min on their vehicle but not without a danger and a penalty - not to mention not helpful if further plans were not made.

 

You would have to have an indoor structure too - mu current 7 day temp base would no longer work.

[gururise]

Anybody ever see "The Rain" on Netflix? It just dawned on me that this is pretty similar. It's a post-apocalyptic series with the story that rain carries a virus that wiped out most of humanity. Second season should be coming this month.

 

Blood rain in real life is theorized to be red because it carries either microorganisms or spores.

 

Putting these together, and also to fit into the lore.... too much exposure to the blood rain could also have a chance of giving infection.

 

"The Rain" on Netflix is such a cool show... Everybody should watch it!

 

I think radioactive rain on Horde Night that would do damage to players exposed is a really cool idea.

[RipClaw]

"The Rain" on Netflix is such a cool show... Everybody should watch it!

 

I think radioactive rain on Horde Night that would do damage to players exposed is a really cool idea.

 

If something like this will be part of the game, I'd have to build a tunnel or a roofed path from my horde base to my work base. Otherwise I have to stand around for half the night with no enemies left. Most of the time the horde ends shortly after midnight and all zombies are dead.

[AtomicUs5000]

If something like this will be part of the game, I'd have to build a tunnel or a roofed path from my horde base to my work base. Otherwise I have to stand around for half the night with no enemies left. Most of the time the horde ends shortly after midnight and all zombies are dead.

That’s a really good point. This weekend I am going to start looking at decompiled methods. I’ll keep a look out for anything to detect when the horde is over as opposed to relying on when blood moon is over. However, If I am going through this trouble, I may look into finding ways to extend the action so it lasts longer without making it too boring early game.

 

The first thing I am concerned about though is coming up with a way to ensure it rains in all biomes. Weather is not global right now and each biome has different probabilities of precipitation. That needs to be bypassed temporarily.

[RipClaw]

However, If I am going through this trouble, I may look into finding ways to extend the action so it lasts longer without making it too boring early game.

 

Letting the horde continue after the last wave is not difficult. You can simply add another wave. There are already some modlets. For example the Blood Moon Trickle Modlet from Guppycur

 

https://7daystodie.com/forums/showthread.php?98097-Guppycur-s-Modlets&p=893860&viewfull=1#post893860

 

The first thing I am concerned about though is coming up with a way to ensure it rains in all biomes. Weather is not global right now and each biome has different probabilities of precipitation. That needs to be bypassed temporarily.

 

In the console you can switch rain on or off. With the command "weather rain 1" you can enforce rain and with "weather rain 0" you can switch off the rain independent of the biome. If you can access the variable, it should be possible to enforce rain.

[AtomicUs5000]

Letting the horde continue after the last wave is not difficult. You can simply add another wave. There are already some modlets. For example the Blood Moon Trickle Modlet from Guppycur

 

https://7daystodie.com/forums/showthread.php?98097-Guppycur-s-Modlets&p=893860&viewfull=1#post893860

 

 

 

In the console you can switch rain on or off. With the command "weather rain 1" you can enforce rain and with "weather rain 0" you can switch off the rain independent of the biome. If you can access the variable, it should be possible to enforce rain.

 

Yep. I was thinking exactly the same two things.