zombies dug straight down

[Clism]

hi, been playing this game for a very long time and I've never seen this. Perfectly flat surface landscape. I was down about 25 blocks. Heard noises. Waited listening, when a hole opens above my head and two regular zombies drop on me. They had dug a perfectly straight hole right down to my location. Just wow, this is a first in a few 1000 hours of game play. I re-read the release notes and can't find any new info on digging zombies. Did I just miss it? I'm glad, it's about time. No more hiding underground I guess.

They did not dig sideways through a hill like I've seen many times before. And they were not crawlers. I've been gone a while so if this is new, please forgive me. Thanks

 

UPDATE: well found a youtube video verifying it so cool beans. I'm glad zombies are harder. They were way too easy before.

[Michlo]

Ugh, this is still in?

 

It was a change which came along with 17 and caused me to stop playing since I used to love slowly but surely creating a bunker beneath the farmhouse.

 

I just came back yesterday to see how things are and I was hoping this was no longer a mechanic.

[KingSlayerGM]

There was actually a big discussion in the community when this was announced. Many in favor and many opposed it..

[Mestema]

For people that do not want hard Z digging to your base, there is a creative mode. Thank you.

 

You can still make a base to the bedrock and be 100% safe. This has to be fixed cuz it's nonsense to be 100% safe in this game.

 

[snip]

[LegionDiablo]

If you didn't want to be 100% safe you didin't have to build underground. A17 did take many options that I considerd to be fun. I can still build a base to be 100% safe. But I like underground bunkers more. For now I have turned to Project Zomboid and I am have more fun. Stil cheking for 7 days changes from time to time hoping it changes again to what this game used to be but with the new pois and items and some other stuff. If not I will still be happy as I got more than my money back from this game. This is not hate as I got this game for 6 people and we all loved it better before A17. Now none of us play it anymore.

[OzHawkeye]

If you didn't want to be 100% safe you didin't have to build underground. A17 did take many options that I considerd to be fun. I can still build a base to be 100% safe. But I like underground bunkers more. For now I have turned to Project Zomboid and I am have more fun. Stil cheking for 7 days changes from time to time hoping it changes again to what this game used to be but with the new pois and items and some other stuff. If not I will still be happy as I got more than my money back from this game. This is not hate as I got this game for 6 people and we all loved it better before A17. Now none of us play it anymore.

 

Well, you do still have the option of playing prior versions.

 

It's easy to see why the Pimps returned the ability to dig for Zombies (and it is returned, since they did previously have the ability), because without it underground bases were an "I win" button, something the game should try and avoid where it can. That said, it's not impossible that digging zombies (and/or bandits) might become an "on/off" menu option some day, though not likely soon, since it's incorporated into their general AI at the moment apparently.

[FA_Q2]

40 blocks of dirt. That is the necessary buffer that makes your underground bunker 100% safe. Dig your base out of a piece of land at height 50 or greater.

 

You are welcome.

[RipClaw]

It's easy to see why the Pimps returned the ability to dig for Zombies (and it is returned, since they did previously have the ability), because without it underground bases were an "I win" button, something the game should try and avoid where it can.

 

The problem with the digging zombies is not even so much that they can dig but that their hearing range is not limited by the underground. They hear you through 35m earth and rock as well as through 35m air.

They dig themselves regularly in mines less than 35m below the surface. You can build a defense but it is annoying to make it new every time a mine is exhausted and you dig a new mine.

Working underground used to be very relaxing but now you have to interrupt your work every time because some zombie wants something from you. And that takes some of the fun out of the game if you're not primarily interested in killing zombies but in building and collecting resources.

 

I also like underground bases very much. Not necessarily because I'm safe there, but because they have some other advantages. I don't depend on the terrain when designing an underground base, and I get the resources I need to build the interior. That the zombies couldn't dig down to me was always only a bonus because I had a base over ground for the horde night anyway.

[OzHawkeye]

The problem with the digging zombies is not even so much that they can dig but that their hearing range is not limited by the underground. They hear you through 35m earth and rock as well as through 35m air.

They dig themselves regularly in mines less than 35m below the surface. You can build a defense but it is annoying to make it new every time a mine is exhausted and you dig a new mine.

Working underground used to be very relaxing but now you have to interrupt your work every time because some zombie wants something from you. And that takes some of the fun out of the game if you're not primarily interested in killing zombies but in building and collecting resources.

 

I also like underground bases very much. Not necessarily because I'm safe there, but because they have some other advantages. I don't depend on the terrain when designing an underground base, and I get the resources I need to build the interior. That the zombies couldn't dig down to me was always only a bonus because I had a base over ground for the horde night anyway.

 

Personally, I would have thought it would be good to not have digging zombies, but allow zombies to trample crops (as they also used to). That way, if you did make an underground base, yes, it would be safe, but then, you'd still have to defend your crops.

 

Anyway, I always put my farm on the roof of my base, and just pretend that it needed to go there, and couldn't just be planted wherever I felt like... hehe.

 

Digging zombies though are here to stay, at most (and not likely any time soon I suspect), you may someday get an option to turn it off, but, what's more likely I suspect is their hear distance being put into the XML's for easy modding (if the Pimps decide to do that, that is).

[Lanadon Conners]

I have always had a fondness for the "Well Bunker" and the "Shack Bunker". With the Intro of the "mole Zombies", I find myself stopping whatever project I am working on below and climbing outside just to club some annoying bugger that has wandered by and is groaning, screaming and growling as if it's 10 feet away. "Wack".. repair the dig hole damage and return to finish my project. Otherwise I am topside 90% of the time and they have little to no reason to dig.

 

BTW.. if these Mole Zombies are here to stay.. could the devs perhaps consider having them drop the dirt they just excavated when we gank them? I doubt that they eat the stuff and if I have to use 200 Clay earth the repair a hole, maybe even half of that back would make me a happy survivor. j/k

[RipClaw]

Personally, I would have thought it would be good to not have digging zombies, but allow zombies to trample crops (as they also used to). That way, if you did make an underground base, yes, it would be safe, but then, you'd still have to defend your crops.

 

I have always had an underground garden at my underground bases. For the roof I used either iron bars or bulletproof glass in A16.

 

Anyway, I always put my farm on the roof of my base, and just pretend that it needed to go there, and couldn't just be planted wherever I felt like... hehe.

 

I also like them very much. In the base I'm building right now, I'm making a rooftop garden. In A16 I used a 2 storey brick building as my first base. There I also had a roof garden. Very comfortable to be productive at night.

 

In his current video series, Z-Nation has built a multi-storey garden on stilts. Also very interesting.

 

 

Digging zombies though are here to stay, at most (and not likely any time soon I suspect), you may someday get an option to turn it off, but, what's more likely I suspect is their hear distance being put into the XML's for easy modding (if the Pimps decide to do that, that is).

 

I hear the perk "From the shadows" helps but I haven't tested it yet. I would also be happy if the fun pimps would implement mods for the auger, the shovel and the pickaxe that reduce noise and heat.

[OzHawkeye]

I have always had an underground garden at my underground bases. For the roof I used either iron bars or bulletproof glass in A16.

 

True, which then reinforces why TFP chose to put digging zombies back in. Since underground farms are possible (forgot about those), then lack of digging zombies returns underground bases back to their 100% safe "I win" button.

 

- - - Updated - - -

 

BTW.. if these Mole Zombies are here to stay.. could the devs perhaps consider having them drop the dirt they just excavated when we gank them? I doubt that they eat the stuff and if I have to use 200 Clay earth the repair a hole, maybe even half of that back would make me a happy survivor. j/k

 

Yes, I must admit, that's probably the one personal PITA for me with digging zombies. I always build topside, so base protection isn't a factor for me, but one those very rare occasions I do go mining (I mostly melee, so have little use for mining), having a zombie make swiss cheese out of the terrain above me is... unwelcome, especially since my OCD demands I re-fill it.

 

Doubt we'll see the game mechanics changed to keep track of dirt destroyed on each zombie though.

[joleme]

then lack of digging zombies returns underground bases back to their 100% safe "I win" button.

 

Buy why does that matter even in the slightest? This isn't a competitive game. Servers could disallow underground base building if they chose, and who gives a ♥♥♥♥ if anyone wants to have "100% safe bases" in a game they're playing by themselves?

 

I just don't get the outright disdain people seem to show for anyone that dares to want to play it as survival first - zombie sim last.

 

It's not even remotely realistic anymore anyway. Zombies tear through steel doors like tissue paper. Preparation and material collection isn't rewarded at all. It's become all about abusing the stupid AI and avoiding the zombies in other ways instead of "hiding".

 

The same people denouncing "hiding" will throw up a maze/drop base so zombies can't get to them. It's just ridiculous.

[RipClaw]

True, which then reinforces why TFP chose to put digging zombies back in. Since underground farms are possible (forgot about those), then lack of digging zombies returns underground bases back to their 100% safe "I win" button.

 

This isn't about winning or losing. You can't lose anyway. You can die a thousand times and it has no effect. And I doubt that someone sits laughing in his bunker and thinking "I won". Underground bases are just a lifestyle among the players.

 

I also don't think Fun Pimps have reintroduced digging so players aren't safe in their underground bases anymore. I think it was introduced as a necessary element in the pathfinding of the zombies. But pathfinding has to be worked on anyway. The zombies still don't manage to go down a staircase properly and instead they dig through the railing or the stairs.

[Roland]

Buy why does that matter even in the slightest? This isn't a competitive game. Servers could disallow underground base building if they chose, and who gives a ♥♥♥♥ if anyone wants to have "100% safe bases" in a game they're playing by themselves?

 

But it is a competitive game of player vs the world and a world with digging zombies is a higher stakes competition and challenge than one without digging. This is not an issue of trying to disallow underground base building. It is an issue of bring back an actual element of survival challenge to the underground biome.

 

I just don't get the outright disdain people seem to show for anyone that dares to want to play it as survival first - zombie sim last.

 

That’s because you think we have you and people like you in mind when we post about wanting a survival vs zombies game in every biome of the world. I want digging zombies for my own private single player gaming for my own enhanced gameplay experience. I know Oz isn’t campaigning for anyone or against anyone other than his own preferences.

 

It's not even remotely realistic anymore anyway. Zombies tear through steel doors like tissue paper. Preparation and material collection isn't rewarded at all. It's become all about abusing the stupid AI and avoiding the zombies in other ways instead of "hiding".

 

The same people denouncing "hiding" will throw up a maze/drop base so zombies can't get to them. It's just ridiculous.

 

We’ve been assured that hiding will be a supported strategy. Patience. Perhaps at the moment actual hiding isn’t viable but Madmole has said that he plans to have stealth perks that will allow players to be undetectable even during the blood moon event. He also said that safety will be able to be purchased once the Duke and his casino are added to the game. But he also said that out in the wilderness without top mastery of the right perk there would be no 100% safety. When faatal was asked where there would be 100% safety he said, “The game start menu”. So you see that it is not just random players trying to stop you from playing the game in a particular way as a troll. This is the design philosophy of the developers themselves.

[canadianbluebeer]

The preference for digging vs walking still needs work. (pathing in general)

eg: stop trying to dig through the floor, use the damned stairs like the 3 other zombies that were right beside you.

bashing through the entire porch to get to the door, instead of just walking up the steps.

(yet they love to leap out in the open for no reason)

 

Digging for short distances, fine (as in only 5 blocks down, nope, yer gonna git et) 50 blocks down? No.

 

I used to put my main crafting stuff at bedrock about 4 chunks over from the above ground base.

Heat map would gen scouts, away from the above ground, and I could then take care of them and their friends.

Alas, even though that was well over 50 blocks down, they'd dig it up.

 

With multiple players, getting a large, well defended above ground base is far, far easier than doing it solo. (just the math involved in getting materials)

 

Digging zombies with the nerfs to spikes/traps etc, um.

 

oh, used to be, 30+ rows of wood spikes (in belts of 6-8) with some barbed wire fencelines would easily handle everything short of a bloodmoon. (and would take care of the weaker zeds. greenies and cops.. well, asplodey cops would take large bites out of the defences)

 

Sure, I'd have to repair it (time and mats needed), but it worked. Now, there's really no point. They all come in a straight bloody line.

Plow through one single row, stacked up on each other. huh? No losing legs/being crippled from walking OVER all those spikes?

 

 

Mind you, when they ARE in said straight line, it is stupid easy to kill them. Pick'em off and never have to change the aim point.

 

The old scattergun approach, you had to decide which zed was the biggest threat, and work on that one, letting other chip away

at the defences.

 

So, yeah, I wanna turn OFF diggers.

 

(and the current AI and stacking methods is why I made my overpowered machine gun. (ok, and just because I COULD make it)

(oh, and the ragdoll swan dive animations when they get shot never, ever gets old)

[OzHawkeye]

So, yeah, I wanna turn OFF diggers.

 

Except that a lot of what you talk about in your post, doesn't actually have anything to do with zombies ability to dig. The current tendency they have to "beeline" into (more typically, around) base defenses is a result of the new AI deployed in A17, and should be fixed when an element of randomness is added to that AI (and, for zombies anyway, an element of "stupidity" is added back into it).

[OzHawkeye]

That’s because you think we have you and people like you in mind when we post about wanting a survival vs zombies game in every biome of the world. I want digging zombies for my own private single player gaming for my own enhanced gameplay experience. I know Oz isn’t campaigning for anyone or against anyone other than his own preferences.

 

Exactly. I've always been an advocate for the maximum degree of player choice, so I would definitely look forward to the new skills which will, if the player chooses to invest in those skills, see them achieve a greater degree of safety from zombie detection than we currently have, assuming of course, that investment in those skills comes with a trade-off of some kind.

 

As an aside, I'd also like to see underground bases, carry some ongoing maintenance costs, such as air ventilation, to counter the greater "hide factor" they could present if and when those new skills come into existence.

 

I'm definitely not trying to rain on anyone's parade, just trying to make sure the "survival" tag on the game has practical meaning.

[Lanadon Conners]

As an aside, I'd also like to see underground bases, carry some ongoing maintenance costs, such as air ventilation, to counter the greater "hide factor" they could present if and when those new skills come into existence.

 

THIS THIS THIS! So many threads have been created asking for work on the Electrical side of the game. I can completely see having to install a generator inside a Bunker to run the Ventilators and lights. The noise and attention the gen would put out would be a fair trade for lights and anything else we can hook up for quality of living.

 

<Sacrifices a Bag of Ranch Doritos and a case of Red Bull on the altar of the Devs>

[Exxodous]

I've been living in the underground bunker with the fence around it for 4 in game weeks completely safe. The Z's come down the steps and get wasted by the shotgun turrets and electric fence at the bottom of the stairs. Not a single time have they tried digging to me with the open access of the stairway.

 

So not only is it possible to live underground in complete safety but also with zero maintenance costs from a wandering horde or screamer beating on the walls of my abode. Of course I go topside to the horde base for night 7, but in general it's the safest base I've lived in.

[Lanadon Conners]

I have tried using many different variants of Base defense with both the Well Bunker and the Shack Bunker.

 

With the Shack, I tend to convert it over to Concrete and Iron bars as a 7 Day Horde cage. In my latest Version, I have gone as far as replace the Scape iron fence with Rebar Concrete 5 blocks high, 2 blocks thick, 4 Towers ( 3 additional towers like the Shack) and 12 shotgun Turrets turning it basically into an 18th century fortress. Spikes and barbed wire give the Turrets plenty of time to deal with stuff while I am blasting away from another tower.

 

I have also upgraded all the inside walls underground to cement to at least slow diggers while I am down below in my sub level Mine under the bunker.

 

90% of the enjoyment I get from 7Days is the Building/Gathering/Surviving until base is secure.

[canadianbluebeer]

Except that a lot of what you talk about in your post, doesn't actually have anything to do with zombies ability to dig. The current tendency they have to "beeline" into (more typically, around) base defenses is a result of the new AI deployed in A17, and should be fixed when an element of randomness is added to that AI (and, for zombies anyway, an element of "stupidity" is added back into it).

 

I did mention the AI pathing in general is the issue. They love to dig, and to jump, sometimes to the exclusion of a more reasonable path.

 

The farmhouse is a good example. The last room before the hoard. Several zeds on the steps/landing and on the floor.

 

The ones on the floor, come right at you. The 2 on the first landing, take the steps, the final one on the next landing, tries to dig.

The partial stairs up to that room (from the bedroom), I've had zeds try and dig through that (they don't like the missing piece I guess)

 

And yes, I just don't like the concept itself of ALL the zeds digging and jumping the way they do.

 

I know it's a WiP, and I DO want to see how it turns out. (the fatties shouldn't be digging or jumping, particularly the cops. they barf at you, and blow up, that should be enough for them)

 

Oh well, shoot them all carry on.

[Vic]

My partner and I do a lot of mining for ammo used in POI's. We mine at bedrock and a few blocks higher. We don't use the auger. Never had an instance of zombies digging except on horde nights. We escape to our mines if our horde base gets overrun. Then it's a simple matter of moving along the tunnels when you hear the zombies digging.

That's gonna confuse them into despawning and respawning repeatedly. Make sure you have a good layer of rock overhead.

They might dig too fast in the desert. and I like to relax.

There isn't a chance in hell developers can design a zombie that can get to me underground. Face it, zombies are stupid.

[canadianbluebeer]

My partner and I do a lot of mining for ammo used in POI's. We mine at bedrock and a few blocks higher. We don't use the auger. Never had an instance of zombies digging except on horde nights. We escape to our mines if our horde base gets overrun. Then it's a simple matter of moving along the tunnels when you hear the zombies digging.

That's gonna confuse them into despawning and respawning repeatedly. Make sure you have a good layer of rock overhead.

They might dig too fast in the desert. and I like to relax.

There isn't a chance in hell developers can design a zombie that can get to me underground. Face it, zombies are stupid.

 

uh-oh, now you've done it!!!

[Roland]

Sent his challenge to faatal. Was that wrong?