Alpha 18 Dev Diary!!

[Ladarian]

Repair kits are gone, way to much of a wild goose chase to do something simple.

 

 

I would rather see different tier of repair kits than have them disappear. This is one of the few things you've had to keep up on in the game (up to a17, anyway). It's one of the few things besides ammo and food that folks are always looking for. Oh well. Goodbye repair kits, looting oil, looting glue, looting duct tape , mining ore, forging iron, crafting kits. It was nice knowing you.

 

In pimps we trust

[madmole]

You could just require gun parts to repair then. This solves the problem of "gun inflation". Lower tiered guns are then primarily taken apart and stored for repairs or crafting better guns.

 

We might, but the common player might not know that parts are obtained by scrapping. Its easy to figure out how to get forged iron or steel. I don't mind it because if I'm a shotgun player, I will be collecting shotgun parts anyway, so chances are I'd have them on me. We just need a tool tip or info panel explaining it.

[Cazmyr]

Yes but rank 10 of the attribute gives you access to rank 5 of all its governed perks for just a few points then. So yes if you only buy one 10 requirement perk under that tree its a rip off, if you max out several perks under that tree, its a great deal.

 

If we inverted it, it would be cheap to be int 10, but super costly to have all 5 ranks of just a few perks.

 

You are absolutely correct, of course. My scope was too focused in and I forgot to poke my head up and look around! Thank you for the response!

[RestInPieces]

Disease needs a full redesign, what is there is placeholder.

 

Oh, thank god.

[madmole]

I have to disagree with removing repair kits. As much as I like mining, I also like looting and wrenching. This is why I advocate for having more things to craft, so I have a reason to go out and loot. I can see, why for the convenience factor but... which would you rather have players simply mining safely in their base for the resources tor repair their tier 2/3 weapon or going out looting to risk to get the resources to make a repair kit?.

 

You can mine forged steel? Mining is 10% of the game at best. If you weren't paying attention you'll need "pickaxe parts" to even craft a pickaxe. So you'll have to leave your base to get a better pickaxe. And as mentioned we might make pickaxe parts the repair requirement. In short, we're doing away with a 12 step repair kit, the rest is up for debate. I'm liking the idea of parts for repair the more I think about it.

[Trankitas]

I was referring to the tech tier not quality. So primitive stuff, stone tools use stone, mid tier guns like double barrel use iron for repair, and high end stuff like pump shotty use forged steel.

 

Double barrel confirmed.

[Trankitas]

Don't agree in simplifying every little complex thing that exist in the game.

 

Will end up being a game for 8 year olds.

 

Make it so you have to care a little bit for things to be a good survivor. Otherwise i'll just have 1000 iron in my backpack and fix everything in the universe.

 

New recipe: 10 iron + 10 wood will cure the zombie disease.

[Drithyl]

You can mine forged steel? Mining is 10% of the game at best. If you weren't paying attention you'll need "pickaxe parts" to even craft a pickaxe. So you'll have to leave your base to get a better pickaxe. And as mentioned we might make pickaxe parts the repair requirement. In short, we're doing away with a 12 step repair kit, the rest is up for debate. I'm liking the idea of parts for repair the more I think about it.

 

Wait, the parts will also apply to tools and not only guns? Pickaxe parts? o.o Are we also gonna need stone axe parts? Why do we have a forge if we can't create the parts that make a pickaxe ourselves?

 

I also agree on repair kits, I really don't see the need to remove them. If you think they're hard to craft, make the recipe simpler, as others pointed out.

 

As for new players not knowing that gun parts are obtained by scrapping, well... that sounds like a UI flaw. Just make sure that the scrap button is visible and that the item has a description that specifies that it scraps to gun parts. Don't make a design decision to fix what's simply a UI problem.

 

The phrase "the common player might not know..." is meaningless. New players learn, and there's no such entity as "the common player". Every player is different and there isn't a single abstraction that can represent them. You are concerned that a new player might stop playing because he can't figure out some mechanics. You fix that by making good tutorials, making good interfaces, making good tooltips, etc. Not by changing the design of the game.

[Gareee]

I'm with Guppy on the repair kits thing, They are an easy concept to learn since everything uses them, and the number of ingredients forces me to go out and scavenge for them... going through sleeper infested pois looking for the cloth I need.

 

Limiting repair to forged steel will suck until I can unlock it, which if it was like a17 level 40-50 or so. Traders often don't have it in stock, and I can recall visiting 3 different traders miles away on a minibike trying to find some to make something I needed in a17.

 

I would suggest keeping repair kits for most items, but just changing the gun recipes for repair to require those gun parts for the weapon. I like having to go hunt down ingredients found in specific locations. You already have a great incentive to go scavenge with repair kits, and I'd hate to see that incentive gone.

 

You to attract new players in the first 20 hours, but have SO much stuff they won't see til 30-40 hours in, or more..like the motorcycle, gyro, 4x4, electricity, and many weapon options.

 

Instead of unlocking them later game with points, maybe they need lower tier versions so new players can experience them earlier, and then unlock better versions with points later game?

 

As far as backpack dropping or item dropping while running, thats just stupid. If they are too stupid or lazy to make a chest and drop stuff before entering a sleeper infested poi, they deserve to loose it all, and will hopefully learn be loosing it.

IMHO hats part of the learn "to play better".

[kamer1337]

Double barrel confirmed.

 

its mentioned in first post since this thread started lol

[madmole]

JOEL, PLEASEeeeee!!!! )))

 

You can add a debuff that will block all the inventory cells for 30 minutes after you have dropped the backpack, and each item in the inventory will give the character an overload.

 

You can also add a timer like during a search of the car, so that the backpack cannot be dropped immediately )))

 

Overloading is cool, but how it works now is some annoying than it adds interest. You, as a professional, can come up with other options how to make it interesting. But you did not even try to consider my idea and did not suggest how this could be implemented )

 

You just began to defend your version)

 

Roland, maybe a vote about drop backpuck? )))

A18 has even more ways to reduce encumbrance than ever. Craft pocket mods for clothes for example, is a book you can learn, and the adrenaline thief book will never be encumbered at night.

[madmole]

Why do you want that Backpackdrop so desperately? MM just gave you a couple of options to work with.

Earlygame losing your backpack isn't so bad. I even sometimes leave it behind if it's too risky to get it and it doesn't contain much good stuff anyway since it's earlygame. Lategame you'll have vehicles and/or steroids. In addition to that you'll have guns to defend yourself and armor to survive.

If you'd be able to get rid of your greed-penalty called encumbrance just by pressing a button you could get rid of the whole system instead.

I get that it can be a PITA but that's the point. Don't loot so much then. Just keep the things worth keeping. Make several runs back to base. or live with the risk of being slow. The game is about Survival not about "in every situation i have my emergency tool that will save me". Don't make it too easy on yourself, you'll get bored.

 

Exactly. Use some self control. You take risks, you deal with the consequences. Simply stop filling your pockets and shoes and gloves with loot.

[madmole]

Looking forward to A18 aswell. A17 has been too full of drama for my taste, I just hope all the good news won't be overshadowed by too many "bad" changes this time around. On top of everything, I can't wait to enjoy a good ol' RWG playthrough, I'm sick of playing NG ! ^^

 

Madmole, could you put together a very brief list of the major A18 changes/additions ?

 

Its on the very first page of this thread, I've been updating it.

[Cazmyr]

So much going on today!

 

~ I have no feeling of loss with repair kits going away, Good Riddance!. What will augers be repaired with? Forged Steel?

 

~ If I understand the new crafting system it is:

 

Shotgun Messiah

Rank 1: Craft T1 Shotguns (Sawed Off), Quality 1 Shotguns (Brown/ Faulty), Can break down shotguns into parts (Suggestion)

Rank 2: Craft Quality 2 Shotguns (Orange/ Poor)

Rank 3: Craft T2 Shotguns (Double Long Barrel), Craft Quality 3 Shotguns (Yellow/ Good)

Rank 4: Craft Quality 4 Shotguns (Green/ Fine)

Rank 5: Craft T3 Shotguns (Pump Long Barrel), Craft Quality 5 Shotguns (Blue/ Great)

 

Is this correct?

 

Thought on needing to get Shotgun Messiah in order to break down shotguns into parts gives more weight to 'buying in'. On the other hand it could lead to people having 20 rifles if they don't want to take Deadeye 1 for the ability to break them down. So, I am not sure if I like the idea or not.

[madmole]

When can we expect vehicle mods?

The UI for them is just there, taunting us.

Almost every single vehicle could use mods to boost its performance and maybe make it unique somehow, its really a wasted opportunity that there are none so far.

 

I'm sorry but my mind is wrapped around the perk rebalance and 100+ books and I want those to be really good, so I don't have time to think about vehicles. They need a total rebalance. That is something we could patch though, in A18. We'll see how things go we might be able to get something in.

[Gnomaana]

Dropped backpack is a really good idea...

 

Also, removing repair kits is not.

 

Let's just cut to the chase tfp, enough alphas ... Finish simplifying the game, give us only:

 

Tool

Weapon

Block

Food

 

...and call it a day. It's where we've been heading.

 

Or just make it a text game.

 

This is almost EXACTLY what I thought when I read Joel's comment about repair kits. I was immediately like, "Great, let's remove one more thing from the game." First it was assembling guns was TOO complicated so there goes gun parts, then farming was TOO complicated so poof there goes fertilizer, now repairing is too much work for people so you now can do it all with crap you dig up at night...... Sigh........

[madmole]

It will be nice if we have different model of the weapons for each of the quality tiers. Lets say tier 1 - AK has no stock, has broken iron sights,rusty etc... While tier 5 quality AK, has polymer stock,polymer pistol grip, and its fine looking model, more ergonomic in any means. I think this is very important from apocalyptic aesthetics

 

Thanks

 

I can't see all that work being done. I'd like to get some more visuals on attachments and use the time to make new weapons than variants you can barely notice, as you can't see the stock in game.

[Trankitas]

its mentioned in first post since this thread started lol

 

That's the joke. I've been saying random stuff Confirmed since the start of this thread.

[madmole]

Loving it. Best of both worlds. How would you repair other items, such as vehicles and generators? Will augers be listed with the tools for repairs?

 

Everything will repair with its most common material, like forged iron or forged steel.

[madmole]

Agree with this. What use is it to add weapon parts to the game to make scavening more interesting if other items are removed for streamlining reasons? The survival part of the game needs a heap of items that might be missing at any inopportune moment.

 

Repair mechanic is meant to be an inconvenience at inopportune times, not meant to be a mini quest. Most players don't know how to make glue or duct tape, how to get oil, etc. Its an inconsistency, nearly everything in the game is repaired by one material. By this logic wood walls should need nails and wood to repair, cars would need engines, tires, or any random ingredient.

 

Its not really fun maintaining or repairing. Its fun crafting and building, finding better gear and doing new challenges. As a former real estate tycoon, I loved fixing up houses for the first time when I bought them but when someone trashed it and moved out, it as the worst thing in the world to fix it. Repair sucks, lets not make it suck more than it has to.

 

I can't think of one game that requires more than one resource for repair. Repair kits are klunky, RIP.

[madmole]

Uggh. Just make repair kits simpler to craft...like just oil and call them maintenance kits. Who keeps weapon parts around in the real world? (Nobody I know). Who keeps a locker containing their weapon collection? (Everybody I know (that's into guns)). This is just going to overcomplicate the whole firearms thing not to mention cluttering up backpacks which is already an issue. Actually, other than the blunderbuss, guns shouldn't be craftable at all IMO.

 

Sounds like a good system for vehicles though. Walk into any car guys garage and you'll probably find some car parts. Also, service stations, junkyards, abandon cars, etc, etc, etc.

 

One other thought...there needs to be a sporting goods store for bicycles, bows, clothing, canoes, etc, etc. Maybe there is and I haven't found one yet. Just musing.

 

Its just going to be forged iron or forged steel for iron and steel made weapons, we already had another meeting on it.

[madmole]

So let me get this right...

 

We're getting rid of repair kits to make item repair easier... specifically guns.

 

Even though you could just fix that by making sure repair kits are a trader quest reward option?

 

I have 0 issue finding repair kits most of the time. I'm honestly at the point where I think the design team have a serious disconnect from what made 7DTD unique, special and FUN to play vs other survival games out there.

 

No we don't, some people are married to old legacy ideas. Trust me, repair kits were a sharp stick and complex crafting will be more rewarding and replace whatever void we leave here. If we would keep repair kits they would be greatly simplified.

 

We want to do repair quests, but when the team saw what it took to make a repair kit it was like who made this dumb idea? KISS for the win. Repair kits were overly complex. I think they were ok a few alphas ago, some forged iron, cloth and oil. Now they need duct tape which is a mini quest itself just to craft some.

[madmole]

If u want to repair a jeep or shotgun in a zombie apocolypse i would use parts from other jeeps or shotguns...and of course duct tape . Finding a jeep repair kit or shotgun repair kit is kinda stupid.

 

Madmole, please hold the line on the backpack nonsense. The effort to make that hapen could be used elsewhere for something that matters.

 

What line? That idea got curb stomped a few days ago.

[madmole]

Sirs, I would suggest that a nice addition to repair kits would be..yes, gun parts. As both things are used to assemble a weapon in real life, or replace broken parts, put the new ones by using repkit.

 

Will miss the repair kits definitely, but will give a chance to the new thing.

I`d rather try it first, thAn reject it without even experiencing it.

 

We talked about it. What if I have an iron pickaxe, a steel fireaxe, a compound bow, and an ak 47, and a hunting knife. I'd need pickaxe parts, fireaxe parts, compound bow parts, ak parts and hunting knife parts on me at all times to handle a repair. If we stick to basics I'll just need forged iron and steel in this use case, and once I have all T3 weapons a stack of steel is all I need.

[madmole]

I would rather see different tier of repair kits than have them disappear. This is one of the few things you've had to keep up on in the game (up to a17, anyway). It's one of the few things besides ammo and food that folks are always looking for. Oh well. Goodbye repair kits, looting oil, looting glue, looting duct tape , mining ore, forging iron, crafting kits. It was nice knowing you.

 

In pimps we trust

 

I want to make crafting more interesting and in depth, not repair. As stated, repair sucks. Lets focus on making crafting great again, not making repair a wild goose chase.