Rubelite Posted February 22, 2019 Author Share Posted February 22, 2019 i honestly have no idea what you're talking about, 1 day in a town and i get about 45-60 bones, not including the glue n duct tape i get from trash etc. dogs and bears are your friends for glue. increase ur huntsman perk to get a better yeild, you can get anywhere from 4-10 bones from a dog, and even more from zombie bears. as it stands ive got about 230 glue, 120 duct tape and 90 bones sitting in a box at day 120 I have read every post from the last couple days, was busy with work, and really appreciate the discussion. I actually did get the first 3 perks for huntsman, but only noticed an increase in meat and fat and at most 1 extra bone from random animals (seemed almost random). I did not grab the rest as I actually thought it did not affect the bones harvested from animals. If I had I would have moved more into that. Thanks, I am late game and I can easily move up the remaining tree to get them. That might solve some of my problem, but I do still require an insane amount due to the level of construction happening (Think the pyramids of Egypt). I agree that these perks should be difficult choices. Fight or flight (or ride a bike). I also want to thank Roland for passing info onto the devs. You're da bomb! I had never thought that the first 3 tiers of huntsman may be bugged, and it never even crossed my mind. As for the bone frags, that sounds interesting. Making them worth less each, but harvestable from all animals is a great idea. I will say that what I'm doing involves getting about 18000 of whatever material I need in a day with the auger as well as taking on a mountain as a construction project. Yet I need to take 3 days out of every week in order to get enough bones to do so which means not much time for building. I will agree that investing early into fortitude is not super worth it, but late game it is. I do still wish that I could snag something from the zombies, but for now I am just avoiding hordes unless there are dogs or bears. I absolutely agree that guns having a paint mod making them more damaging is weird, but don't feel like it is necessary to go back to more damage per crafting tier of gun. Just knowing there are more mods coming is good, but wish I could invest in more of them (glue shortage again). Glad to know more are on the way. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feycat Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 And are you playing solo and have all the bones to yourself? Thought so. I'm not, I'm playing with 3 people and we have all the bones we need. What the heck are some of you DOING that you go through repair kits so quickly? I've got three of us using guns, compound bows and motorcycles/jeeps that need repair kits and we probably go through 3-5 each between horde nights. Are you all using steel bullets? We honestly have a surplus of both bones at paper atm (and yes, we use shotgun turrets, but gunpowder is our limiting factor, not the paper. If you're playing Nav, the paper factor is amazing and you should clean it out asap. You should also be breaking down all the cardboard loot boxes you find in quest POIs because they reset and you can loot/break them again.) Yes, I'm 5/5 in Huntsman. If bones are important to you, you get it. I'm also the Int person and the wrench person, so I have almost no combat points. That's what my teammates are for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RipClaw Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 I'm not, I'm playing with 3 people and we have all the bones we need. What the heck are some of you DOING that you go through repair kits so quickly? I've got three of us using guns, compound bows and motorcycles/jeeps that need repair kits and we probably go through 3-5 each between horde nights. Are you all using steel bullets? Bones / glue are the raw material for many things and not just repair kits. You can also make paper from glue. In A16 most of my glue went into paper making. I also use an auger, for example. It consumes a lot of repair kits. The weapons are rather economical. I assume that your fellow players on the server will use a pickaxe instead of an auger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roland Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 What the heck are some of you DOING that you go through repair kits so quickly? I've got three of us using guns, compound bows and motorcycles/jeeps that need repair kits and we probably go through 3-5 each between horde nights. Are you all using steel bullets? They are stubbornly using orange tier weapons so they can continue to post that there is absolutely no difference between orange and purple if you only have one mod.... #justdurability Lmao Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maynard69 Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 They are stubbornly using orange tier weapons so they can continue to post that there is absolutely no difference between orange and purple if you only have one mod.... #justdurability Lmao Except even low quality guns wouldnt eat that many repair kits for me personally. I only use guns for "oh shet" moments until things really ramp up later in a playthrough. The majority of glue go to auger, specialized ammo, craft mods, crafting trader fodder, repair vehicle, make armor, make mines, make guns, make first aid kits, make vehicles, make military fiber, make rockets, make paper. Many of these recipes require 5-10 glue. Just pointing out the massive amounts of recipes and uses for them that are in the game vs. the availability. Especially on servers where you compete for resources, and gore blocks go byebye rather quickly. Repair kits are essential for a lot of things, but are a drop in the bucket with all the variety of uses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RipClaw Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 The majority of glue go to auger, specialized ammo, craft mods, crafting trader fodder, repair vehicle, make armor, make mines, make guns, make first aid kits, make vehicles, make military fiber, make rockets, make paper. Many of these recipes require 5-10 glue. Just pointing out the massive amounts of recipes and uses for them that are in the game vs. the availability. Especially on servers where you compete for resources, and gore blocks go byebye rather quickly. Repair kits are essential for a lot of things, but are a drop in the bucket with all the variety of uses. I took a quick look at the recipes.xml. 42 recipes need glue as an ingredient. 33 recipes need 5 glue per unit. There are also 74 recipes that require duct tape as an ingredient. The most expensive here is the chassis for the gyrocopter with 25 tape and the chassis for the 4x4 also with 25 tape. Most recipes require 1 or 2 tapes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feycat Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 okay, well we decided very early on that augurs aren't worthwhile. They go through too much fuel and repair kits for not a significant improvement. We do use the chainsaw to quickly take care of our woodfarm-forest every week though. And yeah, if you read my post, gunpowder is a lot harder for us to come by than paper. Paper's not our bottleneck on bullets. And we have plenty of glue for everything else. I even have like an extra 100 bones or so sitting in the box. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stasis78 Posted February 23, 2019 Share Posted February 23, 2019 It’s easy to get duct tape. Just loot trash piles. Never have an issue if you loot every trash pile you find. There are gore blocks to the point you never need to loot duct tape in single player. Either way repair kits aren’t that hard. If it is hard for you then I suggest using a mod that adds alternate sources. https://github.com/stasis78/7dtd-mods/tree/master/AlternateSourcesRecipeMod Adds pine resin which can be turned into duct tape. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RipClaw Posted February 23, 2019 Share Posted February 23, 2019 It’s easy to get duct tape. Just loot trash piles. Never have an issue if you loot every trash pile you find. There are gore blocks to the point you never need to loot duct tape in single player. Once you harvest the goreblocks they are gone and there is no respawn. Especially on servers with many players this should not be an option and also in single players this resource is finite. I know that you can get duct tape from garbage bags, but the amounts are tiny compared to what you had in Alpha 16. If I didn't have any duct tape there I quickly made 500 units. Through the horde and wandering horde bones and glue were a regenerative resource. Of course this is missing now but the number of recipes that need glue or duct tape has not decreased. On the contrary. It has even increased. Either way repair kits aren’t that hard. If it is hard for you then I suggest using a mod that adds alternate sources. https://github.com/stasis78/7dtd-mods/tree/master/AlternateSourcesRecipeMod Adds pine resin which can be turned into duct tape. Modding all this is no problem for me. I even write modlets for my own needs. I'm about people who just play the standard game and have no idea how to install a modlet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stasis78 Posted February 23, 2019 Share Posted February 23, 2019 Right I just don’t see an issue with single play. MP is slightly harder because the bone piles don’t respawn - - - Updated - - - Also animals in a17.1 are completely broken for MP. When I would wander around a map I literally never see any animals for hours unless it was my own server which had 2 active players at most. Any server with 10-20 players never saw any animals basically ever. - - - Updated - - - Maybe that’s what they random guy was complaining about. No animals LOOL - - - Updated - - - Maybe that’s what they random guy was complaining about. No animals LOOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feycat Posted February 23, 2019 Share Posted February 23, 2019 Right I just don’t see an issue with single play. MP is slightly harder because the bone piles don’t respawn - - - Updated - - - Also animals in a17.1 are completely broken for MP. When I would wander around a map I literally never see any animals for hours unless it was my own server which had 2 active players at most. Any server with 10-20 players never saw any animals basically ever. - - - Updated - - - Maybe that’s what they random guy was complaining about. No animals LOOL - - - Updated - - - Maybe that’s what they random guy was complaining about. No animals LOOL Go into places like Bob's Boars and The Bear Den bar. There are LOTS of human corpses there, as well as the pigs and bears. Also the 6 floor apt usually has at least 5 dogs in the parking garage once you reach a decent gamestage. And you reset it every time you quest there - and a LOT of tier V is that place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HungryZombie Posted February 23, 2019 Share Posted February 23, 2019 okay, well we decided very early on that augurs aren't worthwhile. They go through too much fuel and repair kits for not a significant improvement. We do use the chainsaw to quickly take care of our woodfarm-forest every week though. And yeah, if you read my post, gunpowder is a lot harder for us to come by than paper. Paper's not our bottleneck on bullets. And we have plenty of glue for everything else. I even have like an extra 100 bones or so sitting in the box. Are you using Shotgun Ammo? Are you using Shotgun turrets? It's a bit of a pain to keep up with turret ammo though it is not insurmountable. I'd rather paper use grass & water or something instead personally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rubelite Posted February 23, 2019 Author Share Posted February 23, 2019 okay, well we decided very early on that augurs aren't worthwhile. They go through too much fuel and repair kits for not a significant improvement. We do use the chainsaw to quickly take care of our woodfarm-forest every week though. And yeah, if you read my post, gunpowder is a lot harder for us to come by than paper. Paper's not our bottleneck on bullets. And we have plenty of glue for everything else. I even have like an extra 100 bones or so sitting in the box. I have pretty much figured out mining in 17.2. I literally can't use all the gunpowder I have due to being able to dig up 3 full stacks of coal and nitrate with the use of the auger. If you run out of gas dig a pit for a day and you can get 100 barrels of gas. Not sure why you think auger aren't effective or efficient. The only REAL cost is repair kits. I can't mine even a full stack in a day by hand. Wonder why you think they're not worth it? They are stubbornly using orange tier weapons so they can continue to post that there is absolutely no difference between orange and purple if you only have one mod.... #justdurability Lmao Also I rushed for tech and have been at max crafting tier since level 70 (currently 173). Repair kits are for the auger and my smg. Broken tier 6 smg cost 6 repair kits to fully repair, and the tier 6 auger for some reason requires 2 to repair it up to 90% so if your not careful you waste 1 repair kit for only a 10% repair. If the repair kits repaired more or less on the auger it wouldn't be so annoying, but I hate wasting it when I'm in a hurry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HungryZombie Posted February 23, 2019 Share Posted February 23, 2019 I have pretty much figured out mining in 17.2. I literally can't use all the gunpowder I have due to being able to dig up 3 full stacks of coal and nitrate with the use of the auger. If you run out of gas dig a pit for a day and you can get 100 barrels of gas. Not sure why you think auger aren't effective or efficient. The only REAL cost is repair kits. I can't mine even a full stack in a day by hand. Wonder why you think they're not worth it? Also I rushed for tech and have been at max crafting tier since level 70 (currently 173). Repair kits are for the auger and my smg. Broken tier 6 smg cost 6 repair kits to fully repair, and the tier 6 auger for some reason requires 2 to repair it up to 90% so if your not careful you waste 1 repair kit for only a 10% repair. If the repair kits repaired more or less on the auger it wouldn't be so annoying, but I hate wasting it when I'm in a hurry. Do you mod your Auger or anything? In A17 I tried one out but it felt way worse and gave less resources than my steel pickaxe. I had no mods in the auger though. What if any mods do you put in it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PPanda0421 Posted February 23, 2019 Share Posted February 23, 2019 okay, well we decided very early on that augurs aren't worthwhile. They go through too much fuel and repair kits for not a significant improvement. We do use the chainsaw to quickly take care of our woodfarm-forest every week though. And yeah, if you read my post, gunpowder is a lot harder for us to come by than paper. Paper's not our bottleneck on bullets. And we have plenty of glue for everything else. I even have like an extra 100 bones or so sitting in the box. Disagree with this. Time is money for me. To me the auger is much faster and less tedious than using the pickaxe to mine. Fuel is not an issue in 7D2D when you can mine for shale to make gas. You can grow cotton to make the cloth and mechanical parts are everywhere. The only possible bottleneck is finding bones to make glue to make duct tape. Though recent changes have made duct/glue more abundant. Finally, if you're using too many repair kits on your auger you're probably repairing it inefficiently. I think it takes around 2.x repair kits to fully repair a T6 auger but you'll 'waste' repair durability if you repair with more than 1 repair kit at a time. This is what I do: 1. Use auger until its durability is around half. 2. Drop all my repair kits except 1. 3. Repair my auger using that 1 remaining repair kit. 4. Pick up the repair kits I dropped. The auger will not be fully repaired but should be close though. I saved myself 1 repair kit from being wasted since the 2nd one will be used up to repair a small sliver of durability. I have tons of gunpowder lying around thanks to my auger. My current bottleneck is brass and I don't want to use steel casings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PPanda0421 Posted February 23, 2019 Share Posted February 23, 2019 Do you mod your Auger or anything? In A17 I tried one out but it felt way worse and gave less resources than my steel pickaxe. I had no mods in the auger though. What if any mods do you put in it? Ah yes there are mods to help the auger. The same ones that can be put into the pickaxe/shovel can also be used in the auger. In my auger I have the grave digger mod for soil, the one for iron (can't remember name), the one for rock, a fire shaft (the one that lights up) and something else can't remember. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RipClaw Posted February 23, 2019 Share Posted February 23, 2019 Do you mod your Auger or anything? In A17 I tried one out but it felt way worse and gave less resources than my steel pickaxe. I had no mods in the auger though. What if any mods do you put in it? It's true. Without mods the auger is slower and more ineffective than the pickaxe. I have installed the following mods in my auger to use it optimally: Bunker Buster - 15% more damage against stone Grave Digger - 15% more damage against dirt Iron Breaker - 15% more damage against iron Structural Brace - Increases the durability of weapons and tools In addition I added the Burning Shaft Mod to have additional lighting in the mine. But you can also just take dye to occupy the last slot of a Q6 auger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HungryZombie Posted February 24, 2019 Share Posted February 24, 2019 Interesting, thanks guys. Gonna give the Auger another try. Burning shaft is a good idea. (Bring penicillin though har har) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feycat Posted February 24, 2019 Share Posted February 24, 2019 IMO, Augur still ends up being the less efficient, it eats through gas and repair kits like crazy. - - - Updated - - - I have pretty much figured out mining in 17.2. I literally can't use all the gunpowder I have due to being able to dig up 3 full stacks of coal and nitrate with the use of the auger. If you run out of gas dig a pit for a day and you can get 100 barrels of gas. Not sure why you think auger aren't effective or efficient. The only REAL cost is repair kits. I can't mine even a full stack in a day by hand. Wonder why you think they're not worth it? Also I rushed for tech and have been at max crafting tier since level 70 (currently 173). Repair kits are for the auger and my smg. Broken tier 6 smg cost 6 repair kits to fully repair, and the tier 6 auger for some reason requires 2 to repair it up to 90% so if your not careful you waste 1 repair kit for only a 10% repair. If the repair kits repaired more or less on the auger it wouldn't be so annoying, but I hate wasting it when I'm in a hurry. You literally can't be at max crafting at 70. - - - Updated - - - Are you using Shotgun Ammo? Are you using Shotgun turrets? It's a bit of a pain to keep up with turret ammo though it is not insurmountable. I'd rather paper use grass & water or something instead personally. Yup and yup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seagas Posted February 24, 2019 Share Posted February 24, 2019 I mentioned it to Madmole and he’s considering changing the femur into “bone fragments” so that you can get them from all biological sources including birds and snakes. This would also allow them to increase the number so that the huntsman perk can work better with larger numbers. IF this happens, hopefully nobody considers the femur to be one of those critical defining key elements of the game that will spawn more A17 salt. I suppose like meat is now, so five bone fragments + one water = one glue, makes sense. I do like the idea that Chem Stations make two glue per recipe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishjie Posted February 26, 2019 Share Posted February 26, 2019 Grats that there is enough bones and paper for you? Like I said earlier, some people play differently and use alot more. I can go through 150+ repair kits just on my auger for my first big mining stint. Not including, ex-bolts, mods, vehicles, guns, crafting trader fodder, flaming arrows. Mods will be an even bigger sink since they plan to add 100s of them. Now try keeping up with all that on a populated server where people are buying up the traders, killing all the gore blocks, competing for animal spawns. Oh, and all on a map that is likely less than 1/2 the size we are used to. Like I said, grats on having enough for your playstyle, that doesnt apply to everyone and every situation. Btw too many and too early radiated is a bug, and fixed in 17.2, silly to argue against a bug like its intended. i know that too many irradiated is a bug, that's beside the point. the point is, i play on 17.1, 17.2 is not officially out yet, and in 17.1 it is a terrible idea to use ranged attacks. you're going to waste too many bullets on green bullet sponges, and waste too many resources trying to break even in terms of ammo. i tried using auto turrets for my defense on horde night. i had 2k ammo total spread across two auto turrets, and they were out of ammo before the horde night even ended. NOPE.COM. never again. you're trying to play a particular way when it is sub optimal. i play whatever is the most optimal way to win. ranged weapons are not winning. turrets are not winning. maybe in 17.2 it won't be as bad, but according to you, its still just as bad and you still have to use up tons of ammo. not worth it until they nerf irradiated. as an example, why use the auger? auger sucks now. it's not much faster than 10 str with maxed out sex rex and miner. haven't tried modding the auger, but doubt it'll go that much faster. plus not only does it consume tons of repair kits as you pointed out, it consumes way more gas than it used to. i just used my pickaxe with bunker buster mod instead. two swings to kill a stone, takes about the same time that an auger does. with structural braces, every once in a blue moon ill use a few forged steel to repair it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RipClaw Posted February 26, 2019 Share Posted February 26, 2019 i tried using auto turrets for my defense on horde night. i had 2k ammo total spread across two auto turrets, and they were out of ammo before the horde night even ended. NOPE.COM. never again. Also in Alpha 16 the Auto Turrets were a no-go for most players. That's why the Shot Turrets were generally used as the ammunition was very easy and cheap to make. The only scarce ingredient at the beginning was paper but in Alpha 16.2 paper was added as a new recipe. The ingredients are dirty water, glue and wood. These ingredients were available in Alpha 16 in unlimited quantities. This eliminated the shortage and allowed shotgun ammunition to be produced in large quantities. In Alpha 17, glue is no longer available in unlimited quantities because the only source is bones. If there was an alternative source such as tree resin, then you would have unlimited availability again and the use of shotgun turrets would be more economically viable again. as an example, why use the auger? auger sucks now. it's not much faster than 10 str with maxed out sex rex and miner. haven't tried modding the auger, but doubt it'll go that much faster. plus not only does it consume tons of repair kits as you pointed out, it consumes way more gas than it used to. i just used my pickaxe with bunker buster mod instead. two swings to kill a stone, takes about the same time that an auger does. with structural braces, every once in a blue moon ill use a few forged steel to repair it. With the right mods, auger is just as fast as A16. These are Bunker Buster, Iron Breaker and Grave Digger. Plus Structural Brace for better durability and a 5th mod to fill all slots. I used the Burning Shaft mod as a 5th mod. Fuel is no longer a problem as soon as you have a chemistry station and oil shale is mined in the desert. I made a small comparison between the auger and the use of pickaxe and shovel over a certain period of time. I got more resources with the auger. One of the reasons was that I didn't have to switch between the tools all the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jackelmyer Posted February 26, 2019 Share Posted February 26, 2019 I mentioned it to Madmole and heآ’s considering changing the femur into آ“bone fragmentsآ” so that you can get them from all biological sources including birds and snakes. This would also allow them to increase the number so that the huntsman perk can work better with larger numbers. IF this happens, hopefully nobody considers the femur to be one of those critical defining key elements of the game that will spawn more A17 salt. I just don't see this realism hangup. Hopefully at some point Madmole and TFP will remember they're making a game. A bone from a cow or a bone from a chicken. Meh. Though all things considered. Greater quantities make for broader balance. And if you can tweak the various ways one can obtain bone in whatever form, easier to balance still. As long as a player isn't tied to living between a specific farm and a Doggos, it'll be better than what we have now... In the end, we'll either have an insufficient amount or an excess. There's no such thing as an "ideal quantity" that fits all play styles in an RNG world. Between random gen and RNG drops, there's cooler things to make challenging to find as loot than... Bones.. -.- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrewcu Posted February 26, 2019 Share Posted February 26, 2019 I understand and agree with the idea of decreasing availability of bones. By day 20 in a16 i was able to make hundreds of repair kits.... making it way too easy for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khulkhuum Posted February 26, 2019 Share Posted February 26, 2019 I start to wander about one thing though. If you will find bone fragments or something alike, how do you plan to explain a bone shiv? Considering that you will get fragments from various creatures, i would expect a bear bone fragment to be far more sturdy than a vulture bone fragment. Additionally, vultures, rabbits and boars are far smaller than deer or bears, not to mention humans/zombies. I wouldn't expect to find a big enough bone fragment to make a knife size shiv from smaller animals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.