Feedback for The Fun Pimps on Alpha 17

[Grue]

I guess my 'gaming group' agree with yours because I'm the only one still playing.

 

I appreciate the better graphics, and the stealth system, and I don't really care for gun parts (though I don't feel strongly about it), but other than that I agree with you. I still think it's a good game, and I will continue playing it, but I no longer go around claiming it is the best game in the world ever made.

 

I hope they will bring back learn by doing and books primarily. Also wouldn't mind the old wellness system back.

 

I agree with this entirely. My "group" has largely abandoned the game. The learn by doing system was far superior and while technically more of a grind felt like an accomplishment instead of a burden.

 

The thrill of exploration is gone, no finding elusive parts or schematics.... it is all just unrelenting and unrewarding grind.

[Jackelmyer]

I think the biggest thing that is missing now is the "I just need to find this one thing and my life will go from cool to amazing!"

 

There's a feel you get from finding all the parts of your first sniper rifle vs just finding a whole one.

 

And finding mods to boos lt your sniper rifle doesn't have the same feel.

 

 

Going from "I don't have" to "I got it!" is a way cooler feeling than "I have it" to "Now it's 15%" cooler.

 

I think TFP wanted weapon mods from the start. I actually think we should go back to weapon parts, tool parts, and keep the mods too.

 

I think part of the nuance to weapon parts and such is not just finding that last part. But holding it while you want to haul ass back to base and put it together.

 

I also don't think TFP understood how valuable going from an orange tool/weapon to a Purple weapon was. Sure, progression is still there. But this is brain stuff and psychology man. It's why you see many major games still using the color systems to denote real boosts in gear quality and performance. Our brains just dig it.

[HungryZombie]

I think the biggest thing that is missing now is the "I just need to find this one thing and my life will go from cool to amazing!"

 

There's a feel you get from finding all the parts of your first sniper rifle vs just finding a whole one.

 

And finding mods to boos lt your sniper rifle doesn't have the same feel.

 

 

Going from "I don't have" to "I got it!" is a way cooler feeling than "I have it" to "Now it's 15%" cooler.

 

I think TFP wanted weapon mods from the start. I actually think we should go back to weapon parts, tool parts, and keep the mods too.

 

I think part of the nuance to weapon parts and such is not just finding that last part. But holding it while you want to haul ass back to base and put it together.

 

I also don't think TFP understood how valuable going from an orange tool/weapon to a Purple weapon was. Sure, progression is still there. But this is brain stuff and psychology man. It's why you see many major games still using the color systems to denote real boosts in gear quality and performance. Our brains just dig it.

 

Do you really love weapon parts that much? They have more loot type things to add in the game, they just are not in yet. I always though chasing parts was bizarre. Who leaves parts all over? Finding a gun makes more sense and then modding it after you find it.

 

More types of guns and mods? Bring them on! But finding parts and combining them was just lame imo.

[Jackelmyer]

Do you really love weapon parts that much? They have more loot type things to add in the game, they just are not in yet. I always though chasing parts was bizarre. Who leaves parts all over? Finding a gun makes more sense and then modding it after you find it.

 

More types of guns and mods? Bring them on! But finding parts and combining them was just lame imo.

 

More types of guns? With mods that currently change the effect and behavior of a gun? No. No thanks. Don't need more guns and clutter.

 

If it's not weapon parts or something like it, there needs to still he something that is the "Oh ♥♥♥♥ I got it! Woo!" moment. And finding a whole gun just isn't that anymore. And as much as we all hate RNG, you could sometimes find a blue or purple part early game totally randomly. That's just not there.

 

With out these big moments of things getting better, at random, the game becomes a watch pot game. You just keep watching your skills slowly raise up and you know pretty much exactly when you're gonna have a new thing.

 

Actually, that's largely it lol. The gamble/loot box feel is gone. That's what's missing.

 

We no longer have a "roll the dice for jackpot" thing anymore. As much as people hated RNG, it was the gambling feel ever time we opened a loot container. And that's gone. So. People are noticing it. Lol. Funny stuff. But that's what's missing.

[HungryZombie]

More types of guns? With mods that currently change the effect and behavior of a gun? No. No thanks. Don't need more guns and clutter.

 

If it's not weapon parts or something like it, there needs to still he something that is the "Oh ♥♥♥♥ I got it! Woo!" moment. And finding a whole gun just isn't that anymore. And as much as we all hate RNG, you could sometimes find a blue or purple part early game totally randomly. That's just not there.

 

With out these big moments of things getting better, at random, the game becomes a watch pot game. You just keep watching your skills slowly raise up and you know pretty much exactly when you're gonna have a new thing.

 

Actually, that's largely it lol. The gamble/loot box feel is gone. That's what's missing.

 

We no longer have a "roll the dice for jackpot" thing anymore. As much as people hated RNG, it was the gambling feel ever time we opened a loot container. And that's gone. So. People are noticing it. Lol. Funny stuff. But that's what's missing.

 

This is so strange to me. Too many guns clutter things up but all those parts didn't?

[xXBadDreamXx]

for the the thought ...who leaves weapon parts laying around...i can make an arguement as to why...a weapon part alone isnt usefull and its allready partly damaged it may be left behind.... who would leave an entire functional weapon WITH ammo behind???

 

im not for or against weapon parts but i really question when people argue against more weapons....like seriously?

[Cirion]

for the the thought ...who leaves weapon parts laying around...i can make an arguement as to why...a weapon part alone isnt usefull and its allready partly damaged it may be left behind.... who would leave an entire functional weapon WITH ammo behind???

 

im not for or against weapon parts but i really question when people argue against more weapons....like seriously?

 

I know a person or two who would. Generally only the firearm enthusiasts though. I literally know a few people who have bunches of like lower receivers, upper receivers, stocks, barrels etc lying around so it does happen. 9/10 times you would find them fully assembled though which is why finding whole ones is actually more realistic for the most part, but I still think you should be able to dissemble them.

[Catt]

How about we do the following polls:

 

Do you prefer the current perk/attribute system or the old lbd/perk system?

 

Do you prefer the current quality 1-6 system with no change but durability and mod slots or the old 1-600 system with higher quality in all stats as it went up (which could logically incorporate mod slots too)?

 

Do you prefer being able to find tons of fully made guns and the ability to craft them yourself or the old system where you had to scavenge for the best loot and optimize the guns through rng (gun parts etc)?

 

I bet the pimps would be surprised at the results (or ironically not surprised).

[RestInPieces]

Anyone who hates RNG is clueless. Anyway, gun parts don't have to come back, they can just work with what they have right now. If A17 had much better/carefully revised lootlists/traders, progression wouldn't feel all over the place. Weapons/mods were supposed to be chase items for example. And as much as I like the fact that tech progression is slower overall, they chose a very awkward and artificial way to go about it with the current system.

[Jackelmyer]

This is so strange to me. Too many guns clutter things up but all those parts didn't?

 

Actually, no. I'd rarely have multiples of parts because I'd combine them. In reality, Mods are the same as Gun Parts. It's just that gun parts offered a...

 

"I've gone from not having this thing" to "I now have this awesome thing!"

 

Versus

 

"I have this thing" to "Now my things a lil better..."

 

 

Part's gave a better hit of excitement and fun. Mods are... a neat boost. *shrug*

[xXBadDreamXx]

so if you have a damaged weapon part and find a better one and discard the old one that doesnt make sense? this is the apocalypse and the gun enthusiast situation doesnt really apply as these weapons are for life and death defense. to me it makes zero sense to find a weapon with ammo because if the owner died and left the weapon behind they most likely wouldve finished off the ammo in a last stand. it is a game so realism isnt the whole focus and i can understand arguements for both sides. but if were gunna dumb down the game and remove weapon parts to have less clutter we may as well remove different kinds of food and just have MRE's and we may as well have 1 weapon and 1 ammo and 1 armor for the entire body and just remove crafting alltogether. and the list could go on

[Cirion]

How about we do the following polls:

 

Do you prefer the current perk/attribute system or the old lbd/perk system?

 

Do you prefer the current quality 1-6 system with no change but durability and mod slots or the old 1-600 system with higher quality in all stats as it went up (which could logically incorporate mod slots too)?

 

Do you prefer being able to find tons of fully made guns and the ability to craft them yourself or the old system where you had to scavenge for the best loot and optimize the guns through rng (gun parts etc)?

 

I bet the pimps would be surprised at the results (or ironically not surprised).

 

I think this is unnecessarily polarizing, because it assumes its an either/OR assumption. As I laid out in my topic just now, I think we can merge both, rather than pick one OR the other. I like to think in terms of BOTH/AND, not EITHER OR. Both systems have their flaws so I personally say lets merge the best of both into one brand new system. I'm not a fan of going with a system that only has 50% approval either way, I'm a fan of getting a system where 90%+ of people enjoy. Is this going to be easy? Certainly not, but I think it's possible, call me crazy, just will require some out of the box creativity to come up with such an idea.

[Jackelmyer]

I think this is unnecessarily polarizing, because it assumes its an either/OR assumption. As I laid out in my topic just now, I think we can merge both, rather than pick one OR the other. I like to think in terms of BOTH/AND, not EITHER OR. Both systems have their flaws so I personally say lets merge the best of both into one brand new system.

 

Agreed. There's a pretty cool sweet spot sitting in Old and New that would make all this stuff shine in 7D2D.

[OldManBrian]

Actually, no. I'd rarely have multiples of parts because I'd combine them. In reality, Mods are the same as Gun Parts. It's just that gun parts offered a...

 

"I've gone from not having this thing" to "I now have this awesome thing!"

 

Versus

 

"I have this thing" to "Now my things a lil better..."

 

 

Part's gave a better hit of excitement and fun. Mods are... a neat boost. *shrug*

 

Exactly. And that's generally the problem with a lot of the design of a17 in my opinion. A move towards grinding incremental gains verses randomly getting gameplay changing abilities\items. I generally found the gameplay loop of a16 much more fun and rewarding than a17.

[HungryZombie]

for the the thought ...who leaves weapon parts laying around...i can make an arguement as to why...a weapon part alone isnt usefull and its allready partly damaged it may be left behind.... who would leave an entire functional weapon WITH ammo behind???

 

im not for or against weapon parts but i really question when people argue against more weapons....like seriously?

 

There's like 2 million firearms around the United States. I'm reasonably certain they are all assembled.

 

- - - Updated - - -

 

Actually, no. I'd rarely have multiples of parts because I'd combine them. In reality, Mods are the same as Gun Parts. It's just that gun parts offered a...

 

"I've gone from not having this thing" to "I now have this awesome thing!"

 

Versus

 

"I have this thing" to "Now my things a lil better..."

 

 

Part's gave a better hit of excitement and fun. Mods are... a neat boost. *shrug*

 

I guess I misunderstood you. You phased it as you didn't like clutter.

[Cirion]

There's like 2 million firearms around the United States. I'm reasonably certain they are all assembled.

 

Plenty of people collect parts and are always tinkering around and so have plenty of spare parts from old projects, and maybe a few new pieces they just ordered but haven't had a chance to put in their old equipment. I know a few people like this in fact. You might go to their basement and find a few lower receivers a few barrels, stocks, a couple of upper receivers... etc...

 

The average joe who just buys stuff and doesn't tinker with them, probably won't have much or any dis-assembled pieces though.

[OldManBrian]

I think a good compromise would be adding "broken" weapons to the game that scrap to parts. Then you can use the parts to re-craft a working weapon.

 

So you have the realism of not having a bunch of parts all over the place, excitement of finding a broken weapon that might have the part you need in it, and the excitement of finally building a working weapon.

 

 

This would still preserve the new mod system, and just use the regular crafting system for "assembling" weapons.

[Catt]

I think this is unnecessarily polarizing, because it assumes its an either/OR assumption. As I laid out in my topic just now, I think we can merge both, rather than pick one OR the other. I like to think in terms of BOTH/AND, not EITHER OR. Both systems have their flaws so I personally say lets merge the best of both into one brand new system. I'm not a fan of going with a system that only has 50% approval either way, I'm a fan of getting a system where 90%+ of people enjoy. Is this going to be easy? Certainly not, but I think it's possible, call me crazy, just will require some out of the box creativity to come up with such an idea.

 

Oh, that's completely my point although I didn't go about it very well.

 

The point is it seems like the pimps think since most people had a slightly positive take on A17, that all the new systems are seen as better. But if you were to look at merging the old systems with the new people would probably love it. The poll would be to show that some of the major things they took out were loved by the majority (or not).

[Hellsmoke]

I can't understand why people are so hung up on these gun parts, there are better ways to improve the looting experience like adding new stuff. I personally like the mods way better than the gun parts because they actually do something.

 

Worst part was I had to keep boxes full of that junk because the weapons kept degrading with each time that you fixed them.

[Jackelmyer]

I can't understand why people are so hung up on these gun parts, there are better ways to improve the looting experience like adding new stuff. I personally like the mods way better than the gun parts because they actually do something.

 

Out of curiosity, from a looting and scavenging perspective, what excited you then? Do you get excited to find a gun? Do you find them too early, late, right on time? Does finding a mod actually get ya excited? If so, what about the new mod is exciting?

 

I'd actually like to understand your perspective as I think there's two camps (maybe a few more) on weapon parts and full guns.

 

I could actually go for either system. Its just that A16 and earlier loot was more exciting by a long shot for me. I liked that some major cool things we're RNG based and weapon parts, some, we're way more rare than others.

 

You might find an AK-47 receiver, but th barrel may be a nightmare to find. But when you found it... Woooo... It was on.

 

 

I don't get that feeling at all with A17 loot. So trying to understand two things. What am I missing? And what does the group who doesn't like weapon parts like about the current loot system?

 

I guess added to that, what items could they add that would make you feel more excited with the loot in 7D2D?

[OzHawkeye]

Out of curiosity, from a looting and scavenging perspective, what excited you then? Do you get excited to find a gun? Do you find them too early, late, right on time? Does finding a mod actually get ya excited? If so, what about the new mod is exciting?

 

I can give my reasons for preferring prior loot systems over A17's (not that you were asking me, but I thought I'd chip in).

 

Parts were preferable to finding the whole gun because it drew the experience out a little. Even better, it suited the workbench system well, because the parts could be reasonably common, but only for fairly low levels.

 

So, I could find a sniper barrel reasonably easily say, but it'd likely be a low-level one. I could, having found all the parts, assemble a sniper rifle reasonably soon, but being made up of poor parts, it to, would be a low-level one. But as I found more of each part, I could extract its corresponding part from my gun, combine the two in the workbench and make a slightly better sniper rifle. I could use this system repeatedly to slowly end up with a Q600 sniper rifle that made me feel all happy inside. ;-)

 

The point being, I didn't get the whole gun in one go, but, I also didn't have too much trouble in finding parts for it, and each time I did find parts for it, I was able to slightly improve the one I had.

 

It also worked for late gun trading, since once I had a 2nd Q600 gun of any type, I'd flog it off to the trader and begin working on the next Q600 on to build (always retaining one Q600 gun of each type for myself).

 

I do miss that about prior Alphas.

[Cirion]

The only thing I don't miss about the previous alpha in regards to crafting guns is the gear degradation.

[Hellsmoke]

Out of curiosity, from a looting and scavenging perspective, what excited you then? Do you get excited to find a gun? Do you find them too early, late, right on time? Does finding a mod actually get ya excited? If so, what about the new mod is exciting?

 

I'd actually like to understand your perspective as I think there's two camps (maybe a few more) on weapon parts and full guns.

 

I could actually go for either system. Its just that A16 and earlier loot was more exciting by a long shot for me. I liked that some major cool things we're RNG based and weapon parts, some, we're way more rare than others.

 

You might find an AK-47 receiver, but th barrel may be a nightmare to find. But when you found it... Woooo... It was on.

 

 

I don't get that feeling at all with A17 loot. So trying to understand two things. What am I missing? And what does the group who doesn't like weapon parts like about the current loot system?

 

I guess added to that, what items could they add that would make you feel more excited with the loot in 7D2D?

 

I agree guns are too easy to find and once you get a skill or two..boom you have everything. Not a fan of that, it felt like end game was dropped in my lap all at once.

 

I'll use State of Decay for example, the old one. The looting there was epic because there were like 60 or more guns that you could find. It kept me looking and it was fun to try them all out and I don't think I even saw them all in all the time I played that game. Here there is but a hand full of items and that's it. I think for me that's the biggest problem as far as looting goes.

 

I'll be honest I'm not that creative so I don't really know what I'd do to make looting more interesting but what I described above is one thing that would certainly make looting interesting. This is taking place in America after all, almost everyone has multiple guns so it would be realistic even. All I know is managing all those low lvl gun parts was a pain and you had to keep them if you wanted to keep your guns at 600. Not only that but I stored multiple guns as well because again, they broke after a horde night and some parts were simply too hard to find.

 

Now I have one of each and I'm loving it because I can actually use them.

 

Side note for the devs: I quit State of Decay due to the great stamina nerf and never looked back, didn't even think about looking at part 2. Fun must trump realism.

 

Edit: Some swords would be nice, a few types of crossbows, a minigun, a few different types of shotguns etc. You could copy/past the code from the smg even and give it a new skin so it looks like a different gun and sounds and that would still be awesome. Just more interesting things, flood the loot table so we keep looking and keep finding cool stuff.

 

Edit 2: The machete..if you specialize in bladed weapons you gotta run around with the knife until you can make steel weapons. There should be a few more bladed weapons and some cool ones for early game as well. That's as simple as copy/paste code and a new skin. I'm not even going to start on how the freaking club does more damage than the machete lol..😔

[JCrook1028]

There's like 2 million firearms around the United States. I'm reasonably certain they are all assembled.

 

Lmao, where did you pull that number from? Want a more real number? Try 400 million. I also would almost guarantee there are 2 million unassembled AR15's worth of parts alone. Add to that the millions of Glocks. So many people customize just those 2 quick examples and have loads of stock parts sitting around as a result. It's a major hobby. Sometimes having a bit of factual basis helps instead of just making up some numbers and hoping no one notices...

[Roland]

Seems like if they made all guns broken and unusable and the only way to get them to work was to fill every mod slot you'd have something pretty comparable to A16. That would eliminate the incremental improvement of the gun. You find it and then have to go out and find mods to fill every slot and then you'd have a working gun.