Feedback for The Fun Pimps on Alpha 17

[Gas]

I feel the dev team underestimated how important RWG is to this game at this point of development. They had a year plus to get this right for version 17 and failed to deliver. I feel a lot of the complaints about other parts of the game would be much smaller if we had a working RWG. What do you all think?

 

While I don't think RWG is particularly good, I believe the thinking around that is "Let's get everything close to how we want it in a controlled environment, and then work on an uncontrolled environment."

 

I'm not a programmer by any means, but just the way I would organize things is dealing with manageable pieces and building from that.

 

Personally, I think the leveling system is more of an issue than RWG. It doesn't matter how good or bad the RWG is if the basic progression of the character doesn't work well.

[Aldranon]

95% of my gameplay, is mining and being in my base. I only need to go out looting PoI's for ONE thing...for modifications, EVERYTHING ELSE, to sustain yourself, is done at base.

 

Well, brass and bones too. Paper is always a nice find.

[Asbualal]

Thanks for your feedback. I think as time goes on the easy exploits that have been found regarding the new AI will be closed and a new variety of building options will be discovered by the players. Already we are seeing builds being reported by players that other players initially stated were impossible. Some players are leaders and love to experiment and discover the secrets and other players need those players to post their findings so they can have fun too.

 

Adaptation will result in many varieties of ways to defend against the enemies that want to kill you. What the developers don't want are methods that are too easy or don't require effort. It's not that they took your list of building strategies and threw darts at them. It is that they looked at general behaviors of zombies and decided what they wanted and what they didn't want.

 

They don't want zombies running in a loop so they will seek to fix situations that result in a loop.

 

They don't want zombies standing around or spinning in circles if they can't reach you. So they talked about it and felt that zombie going berserk and laying waste to nearby blocks was something that seemed fitting and would avoid the situation they didn't want.

 

They don't want zombies partitioned away from the underworld so they gave them the ability to dig.

 

They don't want zombies to be stopped by simple gaps so they gave them the ability to jump.

 

See? It's all about the zombie behavior they do and don't want. They are not directly trying to kill player options. What they hope is that players will rise to the challenge that the new behaviors create and come up with creative ways to defend. They don't want players to say, "I guess TFP doesn't want me to play underground." They do want players to say, "Wow, I wonder how I can be successful underground given the new abilities."

 

Now, as far as avoiding traps, I'm pretty sure TFP doesn't want them doing that and so I'm sure they will look at it. I can promise you that once they have the zombies behaving the way they want the zombies to behave they will call it quits and move on. They won't be continually trying to wreck every good player idea that comes along (unless it is a blatant exploit like the storage chest walls you mentioned)

 

I know that everyone likes to think of themselves as the center of someone’s world but I’m sorry to say that the developers are not out to get you, act vindictively against you, or to punish you.

 

I remember when spider zombies and hornets were added to the game. For a time there were similar posts from people complaining that base building was impossible until some figured out how to do it and then more figured out other ways to do it. We are already at the beginning of that transition with more and more people posting base designs that work.

 

Some exploit behaviors of the zombies that the devs don’t want the zombies to do so those strategies eventually won’t work but others will as players discover them.

 

As for vultures, you can ignore them. Until your health drops below 90% they just circle passively. I had four of them circling above me last night. I just ignored them and was extra careful to not get hurt.

 

Hello.

 

I have a problem generating an actually RANDOM world instead of a certain county. I am seeking on generating a world that is made by scratch and no others will get the same world to really test my survival abilities rather than memorizing where everything is in a certain county. If I were to ask my colleagues if their map is a random map or did they choose the county because they know where everything is, they could say either one and I would never know. I would like to be placed in a world that tests my survival abilities in an unknown environment to really prove my skill in the game. If you do not have this as an option my colleagues, friends, and I would really enjoy this in an update and spread the news of the game to our friends of friends and so-on. Thanks for your time.

 

Best,

 

Bradley Jarema – long time fan, streamer, and enthusiast

[Roland]

It should be worth noting that I believe it was Roland that mentioned to me that he considers level 100 "End-Game" and that the last 200 level ups are there just so you can max everything. With that in mind, I absolutely think you should be able to start getting anything you want by 80-100.

.

 

I don’t believe so. I believe that what I said to someone who wondered why there were 300 levels if TFP didn’t intend for us to get everything, is that the game used to be maxxed at 206 points which was intentionally not enough to get everything but after some of their typical listening to the community they added enough levels for those who wanted to be completionists. TFP’s attitude is that everything shouldn’t be able to be gotten during a single playthrough in order to keep choices meaningful. The last 100 levels take a loooooooooong time to do so that was the trade off for TFP—that 99% of players will never actually do it.

 

I typically play dead is dead. Endgame for me is restarting....

[Roland]

Hello.

 

I have a problem generating an actually RANDOM world instead of a certain county. I am seeking on generating a world that is made by scratch and no others will get the same world to really test my survival abilities rather than memorizing where everything is in a certain county. If I were to ask my colleagues if their map is a random map or did they choose the county because they know where everything is, they could say either one and I would never know. I would like to be placed in a world that tests my survival abilities in an unknown environment to really prove my skill in the game. If you do not have this as an option my colleagues, friends, and I would really enjoy this in an update and spread the news of the game to our friends of friends and so-on. Thanks for your time.

 

Best,

 

Bradley Jarema – long time fan, streamer, and enthusiast

 

The county name is simply a mask to keep the actual seed hidden. Two maps with different seeds but the same county name can be very different. As a streamer this is nice because viewers can’t search for the same county name to get your map. They have to know your seed which doesn’t appear after initially using it to generate the map.

[Weazelsun]

My feedback is this.

 

I like the game and started playing in A15. But, now in A17, I don't find it fun anymore and for me, it's primarily because of not having to go out looting anymore and not being able to have multiple land claim blocks. Back in A16, I loved going out and looting and being ecstatic at finding an auger schematic or even one of the new paint books. I also feel as if there is less loot now, not simply because some items were taken out but more so, the dungeon aspect of the POI and helper blocks make it seem like that. There have been times where I have gone into a POI and it would have lots of fluff in it like barricaded hallways and jump scares, but there were more times I would encounter helper blocks (the blocks showing an empty cabinet), more than actual lootable containers. I also remember a perk in A16 that actually affected the amount of loot one could find in a container that was independent of the loot % setting the server was on.

 

Speaking of being on a multiplayer server. I remember back in A15 when I started playing I had actually built near a player that built larger, creative structures. This was due to the fact that one could have multiple land claim blocks. I would go out exploring and be awed at these creations that players would make. I remember one creation of being a Roman temple, and one other player also made a castle. An honest to god castle. The other thing of having multiple land claim blocks is that it could allow a player to go to a new unexplored region of the block and start "anew" so to speak.

 

Now with only one land claim block, it feels like we're not allowed to explore the map. To me, it feels like if we want to be creative or we want to build other bases to experience it in different ways, it feels like the developers don't want us to do that. I know we can still, but it gimped in a way. I hope that this change as well to where could have multiple land claim blocks again without it being a server XML change but to the default of just being to make land claim blocks. Obviously, the crafting recipe itself would have to change again but in my opinion, it would revitalize the player base.

 

Traders are a nice fresh of air now. I like that the traders somewhat have more of a use now, in the fact of them offering quests. But they do still have to be improved. I have done some questing and am currently up to tier 3 quests now, but the actual item rewards feel lacking. Like for example, I did a tier 3 quest recently and some of the item rewards were a blue-quality iron pickaxe, 10 x pipebombs, 1 x frag rocket, and a herbal antibiotic book. It felt lackluster, and it didn't really feel rewarding as I already had the antibiotic book. I've already got a steel pickaxe. 1 x frag rocket isn't going to be much of a use, and although the pipe bombs are handy it still felt like the trader didn't want to reward me anything better.

 

It's not that the rewards themselves are bad, unfortunately, there aren't many unique things to reward the player with yet. This is the crux of the problem for certain people when I do a quest I want to be properly rewarded with unique items and lots of dukes, not just 1000 dukes. This could be remedied by artificially having unique items having effects from other items in the game on them, such as imagine having a lucky-steel armor that highlights containers with lots of loot in them or a nerdy-crossbow that gives more kill XP when using it.

 

So the main feedback:

• Have more lootable containers in a POI or bring back A16 perk that affected the amount of loot in a container
  
• Have the land claim block be at the default setting much like A16, rather than it being a server XML to change it
  
• Introduce more unique loot for the trader to reward a player with and more things to loot in general
  

[Ornias]

For me, the joy of exploration is gone. All research now walks up to my front door. No more exploring for the minibike book, no more hoping for the xbow book early. Removing much of the need to explore just removes much of the joy of finding anything. Now I know how many Z's I need to get "X". Building used to be fun and I do appreciate that we have more choices now about Z block damage but solo, why bother? Great game, thousands of hours, but this iteration's skill system is just to bland for my tastes.

[HungryZombie]

When all of the important skills and character development are locked up behind xp, it turns out players are inclined to spend their time getting xp to improve their ability to survive...

 

shocking i say...

shocking.

 

I have to say I prefer what they have now to A16. The most boring grind for me was getting your construction tools up to unlock concrete in A16. Running around beating and fixing very POI in sight was mind numbing for me.

[PoppaTot]

I have to say I prefer what they have now to A16. The most boring grind for me was getting your construction tools up to unlock concrete in A16. Running around beating and fixing very POI in sight was mind numbing for me.

 

Why did you choose to run around and beat/fix POIs instead of just play? Honest question. Seems like now one would just have run around mind numbingly killing zombies to achieve the same goal, no? It really is all in how we perceive it honestly. So I'm not faulting you for how you play, just saying you didn't have to do it that way. Same thing everyone says about both alphas applies. No reason to speed towards unlocks. I'm guilty of it too. I just never once felt I had to beat/repair random POIs to achieve lvl 40. It usually happened without me realizing it to be honest.

[Cirion]

I don’t believe so. I believe that what I said to someone who wondered why there were 300 levels if TFP didn’t intend for us to get everything, is that the game used to be maxxed at 206 points which was intentionally not enough to get everything but after some of their typical listening to the community they added enough levels for those who wanted to be completionists. TFP’s attitude is that everything shouldn’t be able to be gotten during a single playthrough in order to keep choices meaningful. The last 100 levels take a loooooooooong time to do so that was the trade off for TFP—that 99% of players will never actually do it.

 

I typically play dead is dead. Endgame for me is restarting....

 

Sorry for misinterpreting your quote, but thanks for the correction.

 

I think if I have to sum up my points, just as a TL;DR it's simply this

 

TFP should decide on one of two ways to do perk system (IMO), because this is the most logical sense to me

 

EITHER:

Give us complete, or almost complete freedom (Allow us to buy ALL perks at ANY time, with ZERO gating) or at least a "less restrictful" gating like the long posts I mention before entail. If TFP is a fan of freedom, this should be their choice. IMO.

 

OR

Gazz has hinted that they want to force people down the road of "specialization". I am not saying this is the wrong way to do it (it's not what I prefer) but I understand this method, I guess. Anyway, if specialization is the road they want people going down, then make specialization more logical and meaningful. Right now the 5 attributes are not quite organized in a logical fashion. Mining is mixed in with melee combat, bartering and scavenging is mixed in with crafting. Just to name a couple. If specialization is what TFP wants, then at least it should make sense and actually be a truly "Class" system with "attributes" that reflect this (Gun guy, Miner, Medic, Farmer... ETC). I am not saying whether or not I prefer this or not to the current system - I may or may not - , I am just saying this is more logical.

 

There is one benefit that I do see to making more than 5 "attributes". Let's say they make now 10 classes. This means by definition it costs 50% less to master a class, which actually increases your freedom and lets you dabble in more pools. So with that, I actually think I would prefer EITHER approach that I suggest to what we have now.

 

I sense a discrepancy because in one post Gazz said he wants specialization but in the other he said he wants freedom. Which is it? I really don't know? Based upon what I can see that they HAVE done, it appears to me they have tried to come up with some convuluted system that "mixes" freedom and specialization. Which is a commendable idea, but almost impossible to do quite right imo (then you have to balance multiple "classes" within one attribute, which is potentially doable, but not at all easy.). It's easier to balance something that swings more towards one side or the other.

 

Another game I really liked, FFXII, is an example of a game that starts you off with a specific "class" but over time and with enough patience you can start to learn other "classes" and even eventually master them. It was very organic, even more than DRG. There weren't even any gates in FFXII, that I can recall, truly a unique game. You were limited only by the rate at which you could earn EXP (or was it skill points? Can not remember completely). I played the game so much I even had my White mage learn to be a master Warrior and Black mage. It was fun. Lol.

[Prisma501]

OR:

 

Let them keep the current system which may fit their eventual gold game better, as only they know what the complete gold game will look like eventually IMO.

 

Cheers

[Cirion]

OR:

 

Let them keep the current system which may fit their eventual gold game better, as only they know what the complete gold game will look like eventually IMO.

 

Cheers

 

I am just trying to understand the logic and trying to help them along with helpful advice. Yes, at the end of the day they can do what they want. It's still alpha. But I am not waiting until Gold to give my advice, because at that point, it's too late to potentially steer in a different direction. Anyway, I've said my piece. So, whether or not they care to heed any points is up to them now.

[HungryZombie]

Why did you choose to run around and beat/fix POIs instead of just play? Honest question. Seems like now one would just have run around mind numbingly killing zombies to achieve the same goal, no? It really is all in how we perceive it honestly. So I'm not faulting you for how you play, just saying you didn't have to do it that way. Same thing everyone says about both alphas applies. No reason to speed towards unlocks. I'm guilty of it too. I just never once felt I had to beat/repair random POIs to achieve lvl 40. It usually happened without me realizing it to be honest.

 

My point is not to say that I'm forced to do anything. I in fact do just play normally and don't rush for anything. My statement was in counter to the argument that A17 sucks because you are forced to kill zombies to get XP so you can unlock stuff and in A16 you could just play normally and learn by doing. I contend this is a false statement.

 

I'm not saying one is necessarily better than the other. I just feel it's a cop out to say A16 was so much better because it had nothing gated. It certainly did have things gated you just went about unlocking it in different ways.

 

Want concrete FAST in A17 you are forced to kill zombies.

 

Want concrete FAST in A16 you are forced to beat things with your stone axe.

 

I'm NOT saying I need to do anything FAST in either version. Just saying how it is.

[PoppaTot]

My point is not to say that I'm forced to do anything. I in fact do just play normally and don't rush for anything. My statement was in counter to the argument that A17 sucks because you are forced to kill zombies to get XP so you can unlock stuff and in A16 you could just play normally and learn by doing. I contend this is a false statement.

 

I'm not saying one is necessarily better than the other. I just feel it's a cop out to say A16 was so much better because it had nothing gated. It certainly did have things gated you just went about unlocking it in different ways.

 

Want concrete FAST in A17 you are forced to kill zombies.

 

Want concrete FAST in A16 you are forced to beat things with your stone axe.

 

I'm NOT saying I need to do anything FAST in either version. Just saying how it is.

 

Got it, I agree with that. On a side note, I never felt the need to rush to concrete in A16.4, and in A17.x concrete has not mattered because it's like tissue paper to damage stacking zeds lol. Joking aside, I rarely build anything now before concrete that is on the ground if it is meant to be a barrier between me and the zeds at all. If exploiting the pathing it hardly matter what you use in regards to mats.

[Poojam]

For me, the joy of exploration is gone. All research now walks up to my front door. No more exploring for the minibike book, no more hoping for the xbow book early. Removing much of the need to explore just removes much of the joy of finding anything. Now I know how many Z's I need to get "X". Building used to be fun and I do appreciate that we have more choices now about Z block damage but solo, why bother? Great game, thousands of hours, but this iteration's skill system is just to bland for my tastes.

 

Skills should not be given via xp. Books were better for exactly this reason, and is ultimately the problem. They could just ditch the INT tree, and put them back into books and 90% of players that are ticked off about it would be happy.

 

Just to be clear. I'm in the 10%. I would be happier with that change, but not happy. I despise that they chopped up the character's agility/stamina and spoon feed it back to you in the form of perks. I hated it in A16, and it only got much worse in A17. It feels like you're walking in jello all the time until you can get up to about lvl 100 and buy all the crap that makes you feel like you're playing ungimped.

[Maynard69]

.

 

I'm not saying one is necessarily better than the other. I just feel it's a cop out to say A16 was so much better because it had nothing gated. It certainly did have things gated you just went about unlocking it in different ways.

.

 

Yes, we still unlocked things, yes in different ways. Much more satisfying and varied ways, I think that is the point.

[HungryZombie]

Got it, I agree with that. On a side note, I never felt the need to rush to concrete in A16.4, and in A17.x concrete has not mattered because it's like tissue paper to damage stacking zeds lol. Joking aside, I rarely build anything now before concrete that is on the ground if it is meant to be a barrier between me and the zeds at all. If exploiting the pathing it hardly matter what you use in regards to mats.

 

I agree. I can get away with totally wood structures for a long time. Only if you are dead set against using the AI pathing to your advantage do you absolutely need concrete in A17.

[Prisma501]

I agree. I can get away with totally wood structures for a long time. Only if you are dead set against using the AI pathing to your advantage do you absolutely need concrete in A17.

 

Or change the blockdamage that zeds do in serverconfig.xml? Or is that not the point?

 

Cheers

[HungryZombie]

Or change the blockdamage that zeds do in serverconfig.xml? Or is that not the point?

 

Cheers

 

I'm not following you here. What?

[PoppaTot]

I'm not following you here. What?

 

Block damage is *now a configurable option.

[Prisma501]

I'm not following you here. What?

 

<property name="BlockDamagePlayer"				value="100" />				<!-- How much damage do players to blocks (percentage in whole numbers) -->
<property name="BlockDamageAI"					value="100" />				<!-- How much damage do AIs to blocks (percentage in whole numbers) -->
<property name="BlockDamageAIBM"				value="100" />				<!-- How much damage do AIs during blood moons to blocks (percentage in whole numbers) -->
<property name="XPMultiplier"					value="100" />				<!-- XP gain multiplier (percentage in whole numbers) -->

 

Cheers

[Ghostlight]

Or change the blockdamage that zeds do in serverconfig.xml? Or is that not the point?

 

It is yet another band-aid being supplied after the patient has had an amputation.

 

The root problem is the zombie AI's almost clairvoyant ability to detect and path straight to the weakest point in your defenses. Couple this with a huge block damage bonus for all other zombies hitting the same block, and also the bug where zombies can clip into each other (and thus ALL of them can attack the same block simultaneously) and you have the perfect storm of problems as far as the AI is concerned.

 

Reducing zombie block damage is a pathetic, lazy and amateurish way to fix this problem. Because it fails to address the main issue, the loss of FUN caused by the new AI. All the FUN bases people used to build are no longer practical because why spend days and weeks building your fort with equal defences on all sides when the new AI will attack at one or two block points and never vary from there?

[Prisma501]

It is yet another band-aid being supplied after the patient has had an amputation.

 

The root problem is the zombie AI's almost clairvoyant ability to detect and path straight to the weakest point in your defenses. Couple this with a huge block damage bonus for all other zombies hitting the same block, and also the bug where zombies can clip into each other (and thus ALL of them can attack the same block simultaneously) and you have the perfect storm of problems as far as the AI is concerned.

 

Reducing zombie block damage is a pathetic, lazy and amateurish way to fix this problem. Because it fails to address the main issue, the loss of FUN caused by the new AI. All the FUN bases people used to build are no longer practical because why spend days and weeks building your fort with equal defences on all sides when the new AI will attack at one or two block points and never vary from there?

 

Take a chill pill and be glad they put in the setting for those getting a heartattack over the new AI that's still a work in progress.

 

Cheers

[BeardedProtagonist]

I would say its not a bandaid if it adds choice. you can choose your difficulty. a bandaid would be some hardcoded uneditable solution, or removal of some aspect till its fixed. the ability to mod settings to fit your desire is fantastic. take advantage of it instead of assuming everyone plays like you:)

 

Things I would really like to see:

 

1) Better AI (its getting there is what I understand)

2) Maybe Tiered Crafting Equipment. make them more efficient as you upgrade (as well as their skins)

3) Maybe offer color change (dyes) as a free mod slot additional to the 5 you can get max. remove any benefit from dyes to stats.

 

just my first thoughts. I just started playing this after watching streamers for years and really think overall this is a positive direction.

 

keep up the good work TFP

[RipClaw]

I would say its not a bandaid if it adds choice. you can choose your difficulty. a bandaid would be some hardcoded uneditable solution, or removal of some aspect till its fixed. the ability to mod settings to fit your desire is fantastic. take advantage of it instead of assuming everyone plays like you:)

 

Things I would really like to see:

 

1) Better AI (its getting there is what I understand)

 

Better is always a question of definition.

 

For many, the only weakness in the AI in Alpha 16 was that the zombies have often run in circles. I never heard the zombies weren't smart enough for the players. I guess you just don't expect much intelligence from a zombie because they're basically brain dead.

 

What I definitely don't want are zombies whose behavior is completely random. That would be pretty much the worst thing for an efficient base building because you couldn't really plan anything anymore.

 

It would also, in my opinion, contradict the tower defense aspect of the game. In tower defense games the opponents are always predictable. They beat you in the end due thier sheer number and the fact that they get stronger and stronger.

 

2) Maybe Tiered Crafting Equipment. make them more efficient as you upgrade (as well as their skins)

 

Sounds like a good idea to me.

 

I could imagine something like forges with more input slots or a workbench with more places in the queue. And overall more output slots.

 

3) Maybe offer color change (dyes) as a free mod slot additional to the 5 you can get max. remove any benefit from dyes to stats.

 

That doesn't sound bad either.

 

For example, you could use camouflage patterns as color for weapons. If I look at how many people grind hours just to get a certain camouflage for example in COD there might be some interest.

 

Color is usually the first mod you put into a weapon because it's the easiest to find. Later it will be removed if you need the space to install a mod that has a bigger practical use.

 

According to what I read there are over 300 mods already in planning so the slots will always be well filled.