Thoughts about POI's

[iejen]

Hi Guys,

 

A question to the fans.

 

I see a lot of people hating the fact that most POI's are now so called dungeons.

I don't really see them as dungeons to be honest, more like abandoned houses.

A place where the previous owners died trying to survive the zombie hordes.

 

I really do not get why people want to old POI's back.

I find them not realistic at all.

Personally I love everything about the new POI's (except the falling floors:fat:)

 

Can you please let me now why you prefer the old houses?

I will update the main post based on your findings.

 

NEW POI'S (pros VS cons) COMPARED TO OLD POI OVERVIEW (by players opinion)

PRO

• More Realistic
  
• More Rewarding
  
• More Challenging
  

 

CON

• Difficult to claim as base
  
• Not random, since the best rewards are at the end of a certain path.
  
• Too much falling floors
  

[Kalarro]

More realistic? Floors strategically falling, zombies strategically hidden in places where they will surprise/jumpscare you, every path blokced and with traps, except one you are supposed to follow to get jumpscared/surprised, loot at the end of the obviously predifined path.

How is that more realistic than entering old POIs with random zombies and random loot?

 

And Im not saying its not cool, but it sure isnt realistic.

 

IMO, I like the new dungeon POIs, just not as many as they are. Falling through the floor, and having zombies trying so hard to jumpscare me gets old quick, if every house I enter is like this. I'd prefer if most POIs were like the old ones, and just some of them were like the new ones.

[Royal Deluxe]

Its simple

Play "Astora" and 90% of the Houses are Dungeon style, you have really issues to find lootable houses in the beginning

Play "Priests Home" and less than 5% of the Houses are Dungeon style, and you wish you would have more of them

 

Means its perfect balanced, no one get what he want but on average its perfect XD

[Myrrah]

i love the new POI'S to start with. i got bored really fast with the old ones. However-i agree that diversity is our friend early game it's daunting because you know there are no houses that aren't filled with zombies. in reality-there would be houses of all kinds. Some having no zombies even. To me it makes much more sense to have the houses contain zombies/traps obstacles in varying degrees and the loot contained in those varying degrees fit the level of difficulty/challenge. In the early days you just want to find somewhere to hole up and get your legs under you. I'm sad about the loss of early days tree stands or digging down. There needs to be somewhere to go

[toores]

I don't find it all that realistic. Why would all the houses have a "tunneled path" with a prize in the end? ATM when you break through somewhere you just end up somewhere else on the same path. And since the PATH is usually the worst way to take, once you get iron tools, the POI becomes a random wreck instead of the designed experience. Break in from the roof and coneqently the challange is reduced.

 

HOW I WOULD IMAGINE IT:

I would randomize the room that has the treasure and "last stand" defenses and more fortification. I would avoid building the ONE path to it. Instead, I would make a more regular house. Some doors locked, some open, randomly. I would decrease the fake floors and extensive barricading. Instead I would put the barricades where they make sense. Like if there's a hallway with main stairs leading up to the second floor, I would barricade that and possibly make an alternative hidden "least resistance" passage to the second floor.

 

Now you have a more believable house that you have to explore to find where the treasure is. Instead of the ONE path, you might access the first floor from a door or window, the second from an outside structure, the cellar from garage and so on. All those paths could lead you to nothing instead of guaranteeing a treasure at the end.

OR you could break thorugh barricades and set off mines to go straight as you could in A17 as well but at least the houses wouldn't look like those unbelievable claustrophobic tunnels.

[iejen]

If we talk about the tunnels that force you to walk a certain path.

You mention you can work around it by smashing a wall en enter hallway the path.

 

Would it be a solution if the foundation of houses (walls, ceiling, floors) would be made of concrete?

[iejen]

More realistic? Floors strategically falling, zombies strategically hidden in places where they will surprise/jumpscare you, every path blokced and with traps, except one you are supposed to follow to get jumpscared/surprised, loot at the end of the obviously predifined path.

How is that more realistic than entering old POIs with random zombies and random loot?

 

Zombie placement I agree on.

They are not placed realisti;, inside closets and between roof and ceiling.

Regarding floor, there is no lore in the game, so what if these houses are already 100 years abandoned.

Then it would not be so strange that the wooden floors started to decay.

 

I don't like the old POI's.

I mean they are not realistic looking if you look at the lay-out.

Toilets next to the living room, no halls, 3 story houses with a bedroom on the ground floor.

No showers, baths, closets no details.

[Spider]

I think most people problem with the new dungeon style houses is they break immersion and are extremely "gamie feeling".

 

What I mean is a lot like to play this as a zombie survival simulator in that they want to feel like they are the player and the player can make the choices they want in game. When you enter one of these Dungeon POI's it no longer feels like you are wondering a zombie apocalypse trying to survive. It feels like you are playing a mini game. The house feels completely "set up" and as you travers it you can get this cheap hunted house feeling like around every corner(even ones you already cleared) will be something to try and jump scare you. This feels cheap and out of place in a immersive game like 7D2D.

 

I'm not against these Dungeon POI's but they should be used strictly for quest. And instead of having 30 zombies spawn in a 3 bedroom house how about they randomly toss a few sleepers in normal pois, allow zombies to wander outside again and call it a day. That is all we ever asked for. Not this arcady action rpglite version of the game.

 

Also the new look of the dungeon POI's is a completely separate feature and shouldn't be lumped in with the Dungeon POI feature. I haven't herd one person saying they preferred the old plainer POI looks. A17 did improve on the voxel looks greatly and all old pois should be redone with the new decorations.

[Red Eagle LXIX]

I like the new POIs.

 

New POIs:

Look like survivors actually were trying to survive and got breached/lost their ground in some way.

 

Old POIs:

Every single one of them suffered from the magic everybody got boarded up from both the inside and outside, including boarding up multiple rooms from inside and outside the room, as well as the whole building, all at once. Absolutely gamie feel there, with no hiding it to allow for immersion.

[Limdood]

I don't mind the dungeon houses, but there needs to be way less of them.

 

-I'm not a fan of the (overuse) of the "one clear path" with absurd amounts of barriers at every other door.

-I dislike the zombie placement, where zombies are SPECIFICALLY placed in spots that force you to wake them up to get LOS on them. You gave us sneaking, then made it useless for POI clearing...the one thing it would be most useful for.

-I hate the falling floors. Dropping us into a big pit of zombies is...really annoying, but at least it's exciting and tense and makes sense in the genre. The broken legs, trapping us in an already long-to-clear POI, and the infuriating "gotcha!"" style of the "haha! now you have to climb to the top all over again for no reason with broken legs!" makes me not want to explore...and that's a failure of the game.

 

I recently went into a normal looking large house...the POI was set up with a linear path that eventually wound up to the upper floors where all the doors were locked and you had to repeatedly exit out holes in the wall to balconies and into another hole into another second floor room (odds are many of you might recognize this POI). As you get to the "top" of the POI, on a 3rd floor (attic?) there are several obviously differently colored floor tiles, but also some of those 3x3 false floors...so as i was skirting around the false floor tiles, i fall thru the 3x3 (which you can't creep slowly up to and make them collapse safely)....i fall 2 floors, back to the first floor and break my legs.

 

Now keep in mind, this POI was cleared...its a 3 story house that you work your way up...i was 1 door away from the final room. Dropping me back down to the first floor with a broken leg, to climb thru an EMPTY POI is a blatant, stupid troll that does nothing to enhance the gameplay or the challenge of that building.

 

Conversely, the open-pit construction site with a clear path full of worker zombies that leads to a hole in the foundation, and a cave entrance scattered with gore blocks, where the cave has a zombie bear at the end is super cool....it makes sense, it tells a story, it HAS a trap, but it's a trap that both can be tackled multiple ways, and foreshadows itself in the story of the POI.

[HerrKingsley]

Has anyone tried a stealth build and used it in POI dungeons.

Can you sneak through a whole house or are you bond to get detected or fall in a pit of zombies?

[PinkLed5]

I see a lot of people hating the fact that most POI's are now so called dungeons.

I don't really see them as dungeons to be honest, more like abandoned houses.

A place where the previous owners died trying to survive the zombie hordes.

 

I really do not get why people want to old POI's back.

I find them not realistic at all.

Personally I love everything about the new POI's (except the falling floors:fat:)

 

Didn't know this was a thing. The new PoI's are the best part of A17, imo.

[Royal Deluxe]

I don't mind the dungeon houses, but there needs to be way less of them.

Did you read my comment ?

Try the seed "Priests Home"

Btw really nice seed, the NS street in the east, where green meets desert is where you want to settle

[Kalarro]

Didn't know this was a thing. The new PoI's are the best part of A17, imo.

 

Because like you just stated in another thread, you just play for the exploring and killing. You dont even build bases.

I have other games that do that much better. The best thing this game has is the gathering and building of defenses. I like the new POIs, dont get me wrong. But I like them sometimes. Not everywhere. I also like just looting normal POIs, without spending 20 min navigating and fighting.

 

I havent seen anybody just saying new POIs are bad. But many saying there are far too many of them.

[Jamey]

I like the dungeon POIs (other than the falling floors - those I would like to see used in much more moderation), but I’d also like TFP to work on adding more good non dungeon POIs as well. It’s be great if there was a huge variety of non dungeon homes, especially for RWG to work with.

[LuckyStar]

The new POI's are AWESOME!!!

 

I'm loving everything about them.

 

Instead of just a house... you've got an adventure.

 

This business about people complaining they get jumped by tons of zombies....

 

- Run around the house and hit the walls.

- Draw out as many as you can and kill them.

- Profit.

 

If you're too low level just lead them far away.

 

It's that's it hard it's different and we're all getting used to new ways of doing things.

Things like false floors and such... well they take time getting used to.

There are clever ways to avoid them and we'll all just have to adapt.

 

For the run-and-gun type players who have the patience of a day fly, there's nothing to be said.

If they can't get what they want, when they want it, they exact way they demand it, they are unhappy.

 

Not sure if TFP really needs to cater to that kind of person.

 

The new POI's are fantastic and I hope to see more like them.

[SickPuppy]

Give me fun and challenge over realism any day of the week.

 

Old pois gave minimal challenge until late GS when irradiated shows up and most where quite small and linear.

 

New pois too many jump scares? Yep. Too many zombies? Maybe. But I have to treat each one with respect and make sure I'm battle ready to take it on. Fun.

 

But I hope they fix the respawning sleepers, I left the game when they introduced it a few alphas a go. Nearly rage quit in a17e when I cleared a basement, climbed down, once I stepped on ground a cop, dog and multiple zombies spawned around me. No. Just no.

[PoppaTot]

The new POI's are AWESOME!!!

 

I'm loving everything about them.

 

Instead of just a house... you've got an adventure.

 

This business about people complaining they get jumped by tons of zombies....

 

- Run around the house and hit the walls.

- Draw out as many as you can and kill them.

- Profit.

 

If you're too low level just lead them far away.

 

It's that's it hard it's different and we're all getting used to new ways of doing things.

Things like false floors and such... well they take time getting used to.

There are clever ways to avoid them and we'll all just have to adapt.

 

For the run-and-gun type players who have the patience of a day fly, there's nothing to be said.

If they can't get what they want, when they want it, they exact way they demand it, they are unhappy.

 

Not sure if TFP really needs to cater to that kind of person.

 

The new POI's are fantastic and I hope to see more like them.

 

You're generally not so presumptuous of other players in your posts.

 

 

Some of us have already gotten used to them, it just loses it's appeal to some of us after doing 100+ of them.

 

False floors and the such aren't hard things to get used to in my opinion. Just, again, tedious after so many.

 

The clever way to avoid them when you're sick of them being every building is to just bust through straight to the loot and avoid the whole thing.... and late game, you don't even need the loot unless it's gun powder, lead, or nitrate lol

 

Most of the people I see complaining about them aren't the "run and gun type" that you've stereotyped as having "the patience of a day fly", it's people that want to play the game as a survival game like they have been, not a combat game like it's leaning to now.

 

Just my 2 cents.

[Royal Deluxe]

If you did these houses so often... place some frames and get your stuff without ever entering the house

[JCrook1028]

Dungeon POI's are fun to go thru, picking your way carefully, being jump scared, getting to that "magic loot room" at the end. Fun!

 

 

Once and once only........ Doing that house the 2nd time is just nopt the same. Seeing most of the house become these pre planned paths? Way too much imo. They could be a fun addition to the game used in moderation. The way they are they take too long to get loot you can get elsewhere or buy.

 

To me it's another example of how the game now forces you to follow a path not only literally thru the house but also thru the progression of the game itself. Every game at the same levels the same things open up. Lost is the fun of actually having to go FIND stuff! I hope they find a way to bring back some of the uncertainty to the game, it was what made the game special to me.

[lazyknob]

The rewards always have to match the effort and time taken. The reward also has to arrive in a timely manner.

 

There are certain 'shacks' in RWG towns which have a healthy dose of 4-5 boxes of bookcase/sham/working stiff/guns. Usually a specific one. They take a minute(usually 30 seconds) tops and the loot is great, relevant to the category.

 

Assuming you're sneaking around and not the guns blazing aggro everything and run out sorta player, a dungeon POI would take far longer, given the amount of ground you'd have to cover and number of zombies. I've got no problem with this. It's meant to add a little challenge right?

 

But the loot at the end... Sometimes you end up with the feeling of, what did I do all this for? Now it isn't necessarily about what you physically looted, but the containers itself within the POI. If it isn't box loads of guns/bookcases/working stiffs, I personally wouldn't invest time again and again gambling my limited survival hours/daylight on a potentially unrewarding POI(which tends to lean more often to unrewarding or not rewarding enough). Maybe your toon happens to be hungry but I'd never be happy to see shamway crates lol.

 

We can't comment about things in a bubble so, outside of dungeon POIs, I have the regular shotgun messiah and book stores, BANKS!, super rewarding shacks why would I want to do dungeon POIs more than once outside of the experience? Between loot spawn cycles, I'd be mining , grinding zombo xp, stress testing my base defenses etc.

 

Unless! Loot respawn is disabled or obscenely long cycles, then we start seeing value in dungeon POIs. Because there's nowhere else to go for scavenging.

[PoppaTot]

Lost is the fun of actually having to go FIND stuff! I hope they find a way to bring back some of the uncertainty to the game, it was what made the game special to me.

 

There are a lot of that feel the same way.

A16.4 tweaked a bit for balancing + A17e AI (tweaked a bit) + A17e graphics + a sprinkling of the new POIs = perfection (to me)

[SickPuppy]

You're generally not so presumptuous of other players in your posts.

 

 

Some of us have already gotten used to them, it just loses it's appeal to some of us after doing 100+ of them.

 

False floors and the such aren't hard things to get used to in my opinion. Just, again, tedious after so many.

 

The clever way to avoid them when you're sick of them being every building is to just bust through straight to the loot and avoid the whole thing.... and late game, you don't even need the loot unless it's gun powder, lead, or nitrate lol

 

Most of the people I see complaining about them aren't the "run and gun type" that you've stereotyped as having "the patience of a day fly", it's people that want to play the game as a survival game like they have been, not a combat game like it's leaning to now.

 

Just my 2 cents.

 

If you did these houses so often... place some frames and get your stuff without ever entering the house

 

 

Both true but also applies to a16. At least with a17e quests they offer some more challenge when compared with a16. Does need tweaking but it's heading in right direction i feel.

[LuckyStar]

Most of the people I see complaining about them aren't the "run and gun type" that you've stereotyped as having "the patience of a day fly", it's people that want to play the game as a survival game like they have been, not a combat game like it's leaning to now.

 

Here's the thing, how do you make those kind of folks happy?

 

Can you?

 

Players with no patience won't ever like things that require patience and strategy.

It's boring for them.

 

It's not wrong. THEY aren't wrong for thinking that.

 

Both are valid ways to play and both are fun... for each respective person.

 

I'm just pointing out that A17 has made a definitive switch to a more strategic-style game as far as looting POI's goes.

 

That's just not going to wash with some people.

[Ghostlight]

It's the TIME it can take to loot them. Coupled with bullet sponge enemies, this can be a very BORING experience. Some of them can take many in-game hours to loot. You might be in a hurry, because you just need a Pot or some Acid to make wheels. You might find looting a boring pastime and just want it over with as a means to an end. Yet they make you jump through all these hoops and spend hours just to loot a house!!

 

I do not know anyone who would state looting houses was their favourite part of the game, yet they massively extended this aspect of the game in A17!! They are just far too common and thus not special, and the old fall through the floor trick is extremely over-used to the point of predictability. Not to mention the fact that once you recognise some of them, you just nerd pole to the loot room and break in from the roof (or wherever), so they were a bit of a waste of time as far as design effort goes.