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How do you like A17 experimental?


Roland

How do you like A17 experimental?  

526 members have voted

  1. 1. How do you like A17 experimental?

    • It is garbage. I hate everything about it.
      6
    • In general I hate it. The things I do like are overshadowed by the bad.
      30
    • In general I dislike it. It has good aspects but overall it is worse.
      97
    • In general I'm ambivalent. I have mixed feelings or am still unsure.
      77
    • In general I like it. It has bad aspects but overall it is improved.
      150
    • In general I love it. The things I don't like are overshadowed by the good.
      161
    • It is perfection. I love everything about it.
      5


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You'll be glad to know that in the next update there will be new options for zombie speed. Speeds can be selected for zombies during the day and night, for ferals, and for bloodmoon. Four speeds for now: Walk, Jog, Run, Sprint. All but Sprint are slower zombie speeds with sprint being the default run speed. They are planning a fifth speed which would exceed the player's speed for higher difficulty.

 

With these options you'll be able to have zombie walk all the time but ferals run but everyone runs on bloodmoon. Or Run during the day but walk at night. Or Everyone jogs to increase POI pressure. or whatever strikes your fancy.

 

WAIT!WHAT?

*sheds tears of joy*

You better not be trolling us!

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Yeah I don't think anyone should vote for "hate everything" even me... who has constantly hated on nearly everything they did... like the new vehicle system and that ressources finally drop a big amount on finishing it. Also the graphics are nice, when not counting performance and the weird graphic bugs.

Other than that... I really have problems though finding things I like. The perksystem was more fleshed out and had more promise (even if it was unbalanced) in A16 and A17 feels stale and handholdy (because of levelgating), the Zombie A.I. is good... but not realistic! They avoid traps and rather chew threw 10k+ hp to get to me... are they allergic to wood/iron or something? While I like the overall slowing down, it was completly overdone, a lot of actions become tedious instead of fun (upgrading blocks with a stoneaxe feels sluggish, digging and mining can only be done 5-7 hits at a time, you cant run more then 50m without needing to eat another meat...), POIs are designed deathtraps and not immersive spooky houses, treefalldamage was completely cut out (WHY? it was so fun killing a whole conga line with one tree), trading doesnt feel as rewarding, as buying stuff doesn't give xp (but thats a balancing issue, not a core change), locking certain things behind levelgates that only improve fun is INSANE! If I want a forge day 1 I just look for one of those boring ass POIs that have one. Boom done! If you absolutely want iron tools pre day 14 to be locked to traders and working stiff pois, then at least give us the forge on lvl 1! We still need the leather and the iron pipe! Same goes for limb explosion! I don't want instakill headexplosions! But give us at least the chance on lvl 1 to pop it when it would die anyways... or an arm if we constantly hit it... or the legs... WHY is fun levelgated? Its not like there is any purpose to targeting the limbs! Headshots always are preferable anyways.

Why did log spikes get removed? Yes they were kinda buggy, but at least they were a trap. Now we only have barbed wire, which doesnt do any real dmg and spikes which break AND dont deal real damage... not to mention that zombies try and avoid them no matter what! They rather chow down insane amounts of hp to get to you.

 

 

My feedback:

A17 is a dumbed down, slower (not in a positive way, more sluggish then rewarding), version of A16 that tells the player when he can do stuff he likes, instead of letting him chose! (If I want to have 10 str on day 4, why am I not allowed? I still have 0 fortitude, agility and all the other good stuff!) Not to mention that zombie pois feel punishing if you dont wake every zombie up by jumping and kill them first! (no counterplay only to get the player in trouble! BAD SYSTEM!)

 

 

There are countless things on the negative side... They sacrifice fun and immersion for some forced difficulty. And if you like it, that is fine. I don't. Not because I'm not good enough... I still play on insane and less loot and 64 bloodmoon zombies... It just doesn't feel rewarding, but punishing!

 

 

This playlist, and especially this video in particular (skip to 3:21 to hear about reward vs punishment in gamedesign) is something TFPs should REALLY take to heart! This one video alone details nearly ALL of the flaws in A17 (Roland please! If you read this! Take the time to watch these 10 minutes! I've never asked something like this! But do! And you might understand where I come from!)

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I am liking most of it. I would like to see more balancing done with XP and attributes and perks. I love the vehicles and the way they handle now. The new POIs and trader quest are fun. The AI I am not so sure of as yet, I do like how they are smarter about pathing but the damage multipliers might need more work.

 

I haven't even given building a chance as there doesn't seem to be much point until you have survived 2-3 hordes anyways. I have not made it to that point yet. I have been playing on all default settings except Airdrops are turned off and sometimes I bite off more than I can chew on a later tier quest and I play Dead is Dead. I kinda wish that setting came back.

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Mixed about it.

+Feedback from combat is great. Crosshairs while aiming down the bow allows for some silly 30+ block sniping shots. Bonus points when they get hit and fall on the ground. Sledgehammer hits on vultures and seeing them ragdoll 5m+ away gives the sense of OOMPH in the swings.

+Mod System is great though needs to be fleshed out some more.

+PoI designs are fantastic. Props to the creators.

 

-Early game (pre level 20) resource acquisition is tedious and slow due to lack of tools and stamina issues. Really hinders builder-oriented players.

-AI needs more variation. Current AI is great but too predictable. Maybe the more meaty zombie types should prefer breaking down everything if there's no path to the player within 5-10 blocks. Maybe all of them spawn with a random value that determines the pathing algorithm they use and how far they will take a certain path until deciding to flail their arms at walls.

-Gamestage seems to advance far too quickly. Fighting irradiated zombies by day 14 bloodmoon and whatnot is seems bit excessive when no reliable source of ammo for guns exist. Add in the number of zombies that spawn via PoIs, hordes, and random spawns, it makes it seem like the player is bound to die sooner or later. Don't mind it too much but there's still bugs associated with dying.

 

Issues (that bother me)

-Audio issues still exist. Immersion breaking when a zombie is right behind you but you don't hear it until it's slapping your butt.

-Death Bag falling through the world exists. Not sure what causes it but have had it occur twice out of the 5 or so times I've died in a17e. Certainly isn't above the marked location either as there's nothing above the marker unless you consider the sky.

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It just doesn't feel rewarding, but punishing!

 

 

This playlist, and especially this video in particular (skip to 3:21 to hear about reward vs punishment in gamedesign) is something TFPs should REALLY take to heart! This one video alone details nearly ALL of the flaws in A17 (Roland please! If you read this! Take the time to watch these 10 minutes! I've never asked something like this! But do! And you might understand where I come from!)

 

Agree with you and the video is sums up what I think too.

Carrot vs stick, reward vs punishment, risk vs reward.

 

My likes:

 

I love the new POI's, but this is pretty much all I love about A17.

 

My dislikes:

Forced difficulty, if you don't die - the gamestage gets harder! There should be a reward for surviving, not a punishment!

The sluggish gameplay, forced level gating.

The early game can seem too hard and the later game way too easy (not including BM hordes in this obviously)

The game is becoming a bit too whackamole, encouraging you to kill and not avoid, just to achieve 2000 kills to enable you to learn how to craft a vegetable stew...!

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This playlist, and especially this video in particular (skip to 3:21 to hear about reward vs punishment in gamedesign) is something TFPs should REALLY take to heart! This one video alone details nearly ALL of the flaws in A17 (Roland please! If you read this! Take the time to watch these 10 minutes! I've never asked something like this! But do! And you might understand where I come from!)

 

The funny thing about the video (and you saying that it hits on the flaws of A17) is that it talks about using rewards to get players to play how you think they should--the very thing that so many people are complaining about. I also would highlight how it lauded some simplification as a way of directing the player...again, something that players are complaining about.

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You'll be glad to know that in the next update there will be new options for zombie speed. Speeds can be selected for zombies during the day and night, for ferals, and for bloodmoon. Four speeds for now: Walk, Jog, Run, Sprint. All but Sprint are slower zombie speeds with sprint being the default run speed. They are planning a fifth speed which would exceed the player's speed for higher difficulty.

 

With these options you'll be able to have zombie walk all the time but ferals run but everyone runs on bloodmoon. Or Run during the day but walk at night. Or Everyone jogs to increase POI pressure. or whatever strikes your fancy.

 

See - options are good,

add options for zombie dig, level gating etc and no more tweaking ad nauseum for playstyles

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I voted In general I love it. The things I don't like are overshadowed by the good.

I really like the new challenge, the game still needs some balance, for example a little more xp and resources from stone axe mining, i would like back the weapon parts, maybe 1-2 weapons craftable, and the rest from loot/trader, better RGW , but in general i really like A17!

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is that it talks about using rewards to get players to play how you think they should--the very thing that so many people are complaining about.

 

WHO???

I only see posts complaining about PUNISHING the playstyle you like... And that makes sense, because nothing in this game rewards you (well not nothing... obviously... hyperbole!) you want to charge in POIs? 5 ferals!

You want to start building your base from day 1? No forge and mining without perks takes FOREVER!

Want to be a human wreckingmachine and dont skill anything into anything else? NO! YOU ARE NOT LEVEL 'xx' YET!!!

 

Tell me where the game incentivises a certain playstyle by rewarding the player (like "complete the trader quest in under 3 minutes for an extra 2000 dukes") the only things are perks that go with "hit them 5,4,3 times in a row for extra damage" but the only time when this is necessary is on hordenight and then they run and hitting them consecutively is near impossible because the hitboxes are kinda broken.

 

Its all about "we don't want you to build from day one" "dont want you do go completely into smashing heads with the sledgehammer from the beginning" so we simply lock it away/make it painfully slow until you are the required level to get the perks.

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This playlist, and especially this video in particular (skip to 3:21 to hear about reward vs punishment in gamedesign) is something TFPs should REALLY take to heart! This one video alone details nearly ALL of the flaws in A17 (Roland please! If you read this! Take the time to watch these 10 minutes! I've never asked something like this! But do! And you might understand where I come from!)

 

Good video. "Given the chance, players will optimize the fun out of the game". So bloody true. Sometimes intentionally, most times unintentionally. That's the topic of most of my posts lately. And the example with Blizzard is a pretty good one to demonstrate how to achieve the same thing, using more clever ways that will not feel penalizing to the players. Same with gating here, there are always better ways to achieve it.

 

Of course though, due to humans being humans, almost none will ever admit that "telling him how to play" or "protect him from himself" might actually be good. Yet it happens all the time without them realizing it :) Watching a DS dev interview - it was the reason DS never had difficulty sliders.

When it comes to a good game and "controlled experience", it's like going to a 3-star Michelin restaurant - you may love ketchup, but you would be a fool to to bathe that *insert random recipe with weird french-name* in ketchup.

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I'm liking everything so far except the stamina, and I am pretty good at micromanaging with it (scavenging while it regens, repairing, not spending all etc) I feel like a small reduction to the cost of sprinting or restoring coffee/beer to their former glory to give more stam and I would be perfectly happy with everything. Will add that ive only played on nave so far so havnt seen what RWG has become.

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This playlist, and especially this video in particular (skip to 3:21 to hear about reward vs punishment in gamedesign) is something TFPs should REALLY take to heart! This one video alone details nearly ALL of the flaws in A17 (Roland please! If you read this! Take the time to watch these 10 minutes! I've never asked something like this! But do! And you might understand where I come from!)

 

Good video, but a little simplistic. I didnt see any sandbox games (maybe I missed it?) where by definition its an open game-style, not to be rewarded or penalized. It didnt mention tweaking AI, or adding random behaviour to make a player react to a changing situation differently than they did the last time.

Also I agree that players will optimize the fun out of the game, but the word "initially" is missing. Replayability isnt just, hey a different map, but changing parameters of the game, either through options that change the nuances or a random element that changes not just the map (RWG) but also the threat. For example, if on each RWG there was a random spawn modifier - so more or less spawns, more or less wandering hordes, blood moon + - 1-3 days. The more options a plater can pick, or set to random the better replayability.

 

Devs can push their vision of the game by setting the defaults, ie the way its meant to be played. But if you force that it cuts down on replayability, and for 7dtd many players have huge amounts of hours in already.

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WHO???

I only see posts complaining about PUNISHING the playstyle you like... Tell me where the game incentivises a certain playstyle by rewarding the player...

 

I'm guessing all those posts complaining about zombie xp being the only good source of xp and the devs forcing people to become fighters must have been in my head. Silly me.

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It's only a video about player choice and risk/reward reward vs punishment :D

 

he does have a seperate video about AI, difficultie, skilltrees and more! And I highly encourage those videos too. But this video was most important, because I feel that is A17 biggest weakness! Its punishing! Not rewarding. Everything feels like work. Thats why I linked that specific video.

And this hold true for sandbox. In Minecraft you are incentivised to mine, even though you can easily build stuff from surface blocks.

In any game, there should be some sort of incentive, or it becomes boring real fast!

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random spawn modifier - so more or less spawns, more or less wandering hordes, blood moon + - 1-3 days.

He isn't focusing on the ways these can be done in the video, he just pushes a concept. Simplistic, but I wouldn't say it is obvious to most.

 

POI spawn numbers definitely need to be more random, blood moon randomness is something I really wish for in the future, and for the more distant future random events are a must.

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I'm guessing all those posts complaining about zombie xp being the only good source of xp and the devs forcing people to become fighters must have been in my head. Silly me.

 

So there's your carrot, go fight zombies and you are rewarded with XP.

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In general I like it. It has bad aspects but overall it is improved.

 

This was my vote as there are aspects of it I dislike. Some of them below

 

Inventory encumbrance system: what was the point in giving us a bigger inventory if your going to punish us for using it till whatyever level its fully unlocked

 

Armor Encumbrance: Movement speed reductions for armor I can see, currently they are piss-poorly balanced, gloves/boots/helm should in no way be hurting the player as much as a much heavier chest/leg armor. The stam regen penalty has to go as well. I know of the mods but i've never found one of the fitting mods ever.

 

Mods: Good idea, semi-flawed execution, if your going to make us rely on mods for a huge chuck of damage/block damage, they need to be more common in loot, I don't mind having to wait till higher level to craft them, but they need to be way more avail in loot than they currently are. Maybe have items you loot in the world randomly spawn with mods in them?

 

Item Tiers: I feel there should be a slightly better stat diff between the tiers, tier 1 is baseline, with tier 2 to 6 having higher stats other than durability. Currently I never upgrade my tools unless I need to put more than 1 mod in it, there is no real point to upgrading, as other than durability tier 1 is the same as tier 6. More mod slots are kinda pointless if you don't have any mods to put into them.

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He isn't focusing on the ways these can be done in the video, he just pushes a concept. Simplistic, but I wouldn't say it is obvious to most.

 

POI spawn numbers definitely need to be more random, blood moon randomness is something I really wish for in the future, and for the more distant future random events are a must.

 

The other thing is that if bandits dont go the way of the behemoth, they are going to throw any balance way off again. Imagine the posts and tweaking about too uber - too easy - too much / not enough loot. Now if they were tweakable from the start (see dzai for dayz on github) then that would save a ton of development time, and posts would be about best settings, like RWG best seeds maybe.

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I'm guessing all those posts complaining about zombie xp being the only good source of xp and the devs forcing people to become fighters must have been in my head. Silly me.

 

because it does the wrong sort of incentive. Its simply SO MUCH better, that doing anything else feels punishing.

You wanna know why? Because everything is gated behind levels. That is the main problem.

 

You are gated by levels and the only way to level (currently! they are balancing it) is to kill zombies... what am I supposed to get from that? That I should constantly let forges run to attract hordes? Because going in a poi gets me into a disadvantage! I'd rather just "farm" them outside.

Is that the intended playstyle? "Just farm zombies until you can unlock the fun part?" because that is not good gamedesign either.

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I like A17 in general, but i feel it a bit too combat focused right now. I enjoy the combat but with the current spawn system it seems i spend almost all my time doing just that. Im more the builder type, wich is an aspect of the game that im not finding satisfiyng so far.

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Buggy AF

 

i'm finding it really buggy once you're past the 2nd week. i keep getting these errors.

ConsoleErrors.jpg.dd6b8f453c5987b3425a2d7c240ab28d.jpg

 

Pathfinding stops, the zombies stop walking

And all these messages about a "very high penalty applied" which i have no idea what it's talking about

but overall I can't play this game anymore since after 2 or 3 weeks the zombies stop walking and this continues over and over and over every time I reload my game save.

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Bugs bugs bugs bugs. 1 LCB issue, containers breaking characters so they cant open anything and the only way to fix is to wipe their characters, map size, no mountains, no rivers, only 50 blocks deep if that, radiation starting before the map ends, flat earth map, new zombie ai isnt that special, infinity trees are back, trees growing inside bases are a thing again and you cant destroy, the list goes on.

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You'll be glad to know that in the next update there will be new options for zombie speed. Speeds can be selected for zombies during the day and night, for ferals, and for bloodmoon. Four speeds for now: Walk, Jog, Run, Sprint. All but Sprint are slower zombie speeds with sprint being the default run speed. They are planning a fifth speed which would exceed the player's speed for higher difficulty.

 

With these options you'll be able to have zombie walk all the time but ferals run but everyone runs on bloodmoon. Or Run during the day but walk at night. Or Everyone jogs to increase POI pressure. or whatever strikes your fancy.

 

I am fine with ferals sprinting they are bascally mutant zombies, but imo, the normal ones shouldn't just magically be able to sprint like a feral at night, so I'd turn it down to maybe jog or run, they still faster than during the day, but not so much as before. I can agree with the idea of special zombies running, but every common normal one shouldn't be running at full spritn speed just because its night. Going to be intersting especally when the 5th setting is put in so they can outrun the player.

 

Like others, I am basing my opinion on a71e in its "current" state, I understand alot of stuff will change so I am reserving final opinion/judgement for when stable hits at least.

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i'm finding it really buggy once you're past the 2nd week. i keep getting these errors.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]26012[/ATTACH]

 

The text in the picture is unreadable, maybe post it as text.

 

If you have started a new game with a new map in b208, report it in the bug thread. If not, it is entirely possible that playing a game from a previous build is producing this bug.

 

Bugs bugs bugs bugs.

 

To be expected . Experimental is opt-in exactly because it is bug-infested.

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