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No more exploding loot in A17?


ubai

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I decided to start a new game the other day and on the first 7 day horde I was reminded of an annoying issue: when you kill a zombie and its "corpse" is on top of another one, the loot falls down and explodes. Since zombies can occupy the same space and tend to clump up, this means that I usually end up with only two or three lootbags at the end of a bloodmoon no matter how many zombies I kill.

 

I know that there are ways to mitigate this by getting the zeds to follow you around some kind of parapet or whatever, but it bugs me and I am wondering if this will be fixed in A17. Also, if there is a way to turn this off in the XML files I would like to know that too. I don't care if the loot corpse thing is floating in the air, I want my lewts! :p

 

Thanks,

Matt

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Zombie loot has been reduced in A17, also corpses will disappear after a few seconds leaving a bag if they do have loot. So I'd say there is definitely less chance of that happening but not seen any dev comment on that specific issue.

 

Some will have loot? I got the impression that zombie looting was eliminated completely.

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Some will have loot? I got the impression that zombie looting was eliminated completely.

The only way you can get this impression is by not listening to what madmole was actually saying in the video, or by listening to all the other people who didn't bother to listen. SO many are just making assumptions that it's gone entirely, when that was never once stated to be a thing.

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I've been listening and reading well and still would have preferred if MM actually had SHOWN at least one situation where that supposed loot bag drops. I bet that tiny difference in presentation would have prevented a lot of drama... eh who am I kidding. :D

 

I hope those drop bags don't despawn too fast and can't be destroyed accidentally (cop explosions and shotgun turrets currently have a chance to do that to player bags, it seems).

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I'm not sure this whole "less loot on zombies" thing is a good idea.

 

What's the incentive to kill them instead of trap them?

There's buggy ways to keep them running in circles or whatever and since we're getting little to no loot.... why bother killing them?

 

I dunno.... I'm not sure this is a good idea but I guess we'll see when A17 comes out.

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In a17 you won't be killing zombies. Killing means they respawn, but since there is a max amount of zombies that are present, its better to trap them. so you will just be building a few deep holes, and fill them with straw-blocks, since you don't want the zombies to get hurt from fall damage.

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I'm not sure this whole "less loot on zombies" thing is a good idea.

 

What's the incentive to kill them instead of trap them?

There's buggy ways to keep them running in circles or whatever and since we're getting little to no loot.... why bother killing them?

 

I dunno.... I'm not sure this is a good idea but I guess we'll see when A17 comes out.

 

I'm all for it - zombies shouldn't be a loot pinata. They should be something to be avoided where you can, and tackled only where necessary. That's how I'd be rolling if I were in such a situation in real life, and it's never made sense to me that the game would incentivize active farming of what was supposed to be the primary survival threat.

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the loot will be much less. which is a good thing. the zombie delivery system is finally going down. i have been in my base all the time and have been well supply'd. i only wish the perks on loot will be gone / easily modded away. since A14 looting isn't fun anymore. gated loot is terrible and have made my friends stop playing.

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and it's never made sense to me that the game would incentivize active farming of what was supposed to be the primary survival threat.

 

Kill XP has to go as well (especially if you get xp from using weapons/damaging enemies like now), or become as minimal as the rate of experience you gain from other sources (if you don't). If it doesn't go away, people will still be compelled to "grind" zombies (and ironically later complain that the grind is getting boring). The gameloop/"grind" must be centered around survival.

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It´s just that the survival isn´t actually hard in this game. You are never in danger of dehydration or starving. Keeping your temperature is also not a challenge at all.

 

Nice idea but we would need an actual challenge in the survival part of the game for that.

 

And no, playing on super hard settings doesn´t count. The balance for the game needs to be around default.

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It´s just that the survival isn´t actually hard in this game. You are never in danger of dehydration or starving. Keeping your temperature is also not a challenge at all.

 

Nice idea but we would need an actual challenge in the survival part of the game for that.

 

And no, playing on super hard settings doesn´t count. The balance for the game needs to be around default.

 

Yep.

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It´s just that the survival isn´t actually hard in this game. You are never in danger of dehydration or starving. Keeping your temperature is also not a challenge at all.

 

Nice idea but we would need an actual challenge in the survival part of the game for that.

 

And no, playing on super hard settings doesn´t count. The balance for the game needs to be around default.

 

"default" is for new players. You are already very experienced and should be using "hard".

 

But unlike previous alphas A17+ "hard" should not just change damage and HP values of zombies but influence scarcity of loot and food (because an experienced player should know much better where to find specific loot).

 

In A16.4 you already have the choice to set loot to any percentage, you really should do that if survival seems too easy to you. I always forget to do this as well, it is so easy to overlook. Only in my last restart I remembered to finally adjust this value.

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In A16.4 you already have the choice to set loot to any percentage, you really should do that if survival seems too easy to you.

 

In my experience, this setting makes an insubstantial difference. Food gets easily stockpiled even with reduced animal numbers, water was always non-issue, meds are not really needed, some items were a little harder to acquire and that's that. In a parallel universe where the reasons for getting these things matter more/are constant, it could have made a real difference. Not in this one though.

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In my experience, this setting makes an insubstantial difference. Food gets easily stockpiled even with reduced animal numbers, water was always non-issue, meds are not really needed, some items were a little harder to acquire and that's that. In a parallel universe where the reasons for getting these things matter more/are constant, it could have made a real difference. Not in this one though.

 

When it comes to food in particular, farming inevitably renders it moot. The nature of geometric progression (and to work, farming has to give at least 2 outputs for each input) means that, sooner or later, no matter what TFP does with the default growth timers and the like, any even halfway dedicated farmer will be literally swimming in food.

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I'm not sure this whole "less loot on zombies" thing is a good idea.

 

What's the incentive to kill them instead of trap them?

There's buggy ways to keep them running in circles or whatever and since we're getting little to no loot.... why bother killing them?

 

I dunno.... I'm not sure this is a good idea but I guess we'll see when A17 comes out.

Umm 2 lvl up duh.

Plus it will be better loot than junk items.

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When it comes to food in particular, farming inevitably renders it moot. The nature of geometric progression (and to work, farming has to give at least 2 outputs for each input) means that, sooner or later, no matter what TFP does with the default growth timers and the like, any even halfway dedicated farmer will be literally swimming in food.

 

Of course, why would anyone think that changing the timers would be helpful? A resource sink to grow food like fertilizer (which from my understanding goes away in A17, no more human turds) and spoilage would do the trick just fine.

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Of course, why would anyone think that changing the timers would be helpful? A resource sink to grow food like fertilizer (which from my understanding goes away in A17, no more human turds) and spoilage would do the trick just fine.

 

Spoilage won't stop farming invalidating any long term food concerns. All it will do is ensure farming is done only on an "as needed" basis, rather than do to generate giant stockpiles of food.

 

Don't get me wrong, I'd hate to see farming removed, but so long as it's there, food won't ever be a long term issue (but I'm ok with that, given that I do enjoy the farming from time to time and don't want to see it removed).

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Spoilage won't stop farming invalidating any long term food concerns. All it will do is ensure farming is done only on an "as needed" basis, rather than do to generate giant stockpiles of food.

 

Don't get me wrong, I'd hate to see farming removed, but so long as it's there, food won't ever be a long term issue (but I'm ok with that, given that I do enjoy the farming from time to time and don't want to see it removed).

 

All it will do? It will actually make an activity and the need for food meaningful. The whole point of farming in the first place is to make food concerns easier to handle and giving you higher quality food. Along with fertilization, the player will make his life easier when it comes to food, but will have to plan and work for it. Lack of spoilage invalidates farming itself and every other food concern permanently. I think that's a pretty big deal in a survival game, don't you? Not to mention that canned food will become valuable, because the player will have a reason to stockpile it.

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Kill XP has to go as well (especially if you get xp from using weapons/damaging enemies like now), or become as minimal as the rate of experience you gain from other sources (if you don't). If it doesn't go away, people will still be compelled to "grind" zombies (and ironically later complain that the grind is getting boring). The gameloop/"grind" must be centered around survival.

 

Disagree!

 

Why "must" it?

 

So... people who like killing zombies are having fun wrong?

 

Hmm.... sorry, can't agree to that.

 

Survival sometimes does require farming something.

What if the only place in your area to get reliable parts is in a factory full of zeds.

You'd keep going back to kill them and see if any are carrying parts right?

 

While I'm open to the idea of less loot on zombies, removing experience from them ruins co-op play and limits game play styles.

Some players break up co-op teams by having Fighters + Builders/Farmers/Miners.

So you'd punish them for that play style?

 

I don't actively seek out fights but I'd prefer to "clear" a building than try to sneak around things hoping I don't get discovered.

Why should that style be punished as well?

 

Sorry.... don't agree with one word you're saying.

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OMG YOU DON'T AGREE?!?

Ok, let's break it down.

 

Kill XP has to go as well (especially if you get xp from using weapons/damaging enemies like now), or become as minimal as the rate of experience you gain from other sources (if you don't).

 

First of all, you did notice that I said that it has to go away completely, only if action/weapon exp stays in A17 and that kill exp should stay but be as beneficial as other actions, if weapon exp goes away, right? Will reply for the current state of the game:

 

Survival sometimes does require farming something.

 

Of course it does. You can farm resources in the environment, scavenge or kill zombies for loot - even if it's now less. You gain exp from all these sources. Do you have to farm extra levels for kill experience from them as well? The action of using your weapons against zombies will still get you some exp, but in line with other activities.

 

What if the only place in your area to get reliable parts is in a factory full of zeds.

You'd keep going back to kill them and see if any are carrying parts right?

 

Yes. And the reward will be the parts you will be getting - plus all the experience from the actions you will do. Is kill experience that important?

 

removing experience from them ruins co-op play and limits game play styles.

Some players break up co-op teams by having Fighters + Builders/Farmers/Miners.

So you'd punish them for that play style?

 

What I said in my post is that I am in favor of action exp and would like that the exp rate for all playstyles to be approximately the same if possible. Fighters would get exp from using weapons and the rest from working. Isn't that better for these people you describe?

 

We used to do that too with some friends. Once zombie exp was introduced, everyone became a fighter and wanted to kill zombies in order to not lag behind in levels. Even now that it got nerfed, it still is enough to make everyone want to be a fighter. None wants to stay at home and work on something else.

 

I don't actively seek out fights but I'd prefer to "clear" a building than try to sneak around things hoping I don't get discovered.

Why should that style be punished as well?

 

Me as well. Why wouldn't you do that if zombies gave no exp? If you want to loot/scavenge in peace you have to do it - especially now with the better AI. You will still get some loot from them and some action experience.

Aren't all of the above reward enough, that you will still consider yourself to be punished if there is no kill exp?

 

Wouldn't a person who likes to sneak, more rightly feel that he is the one getting punished, since, not only will he lose that loot but also get less exp by sneaking, than killing those zombies?

 

Why "must" it?

 

From my experience... zombie kill exp ruins many aspects of gameplay. From thematic to more practical ones. Thematic being, everyone in the zombie apocalypse is out to get zombies. Sees them as "phat loot/exp" bags and is encouraged to grind them. Ignoring the anti-climatic effect this has on the zombie apocalypse, even people who won't like grinding zombies, will be compelled to do it, as long as it is above all other activities when it comes to exp, especially in co-op, so that they won't lag behind.

 

If zombie kill exp goes away, action exp is still here (in A16 at least) and those who enjoy just killing zombies will still get rewards.

 

According to Roland's post for A17

Yes there are still other ways to earn xp although they are looking at this so some things might end up being different than A16. You should be able to earn xp by mining, building (upgrading blocks), chopping down trees, killing zombies, killing animals, and farming (harvesting the fruits of your labor). They are talking about doing some sort of crafting xp that would give diminishing returns so that spam crafting wouldn't return but that is not for sure. Things like walking and jumping that used to increase your athletic skill is gone-- no xp gains from walking and jumping. Scavenging (opening containers) and trading are on the bubble so those might stay or go.

 

...action exp with weapons will probably go away. What I said in my previous post is that, if action exp goes away and kill exp stays, it should not go away as well, but come in line with action exp from other activities. Which is fair, no?

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All it will do? It will actually make an activity and the need for food meaningful. The whole point of farming in the first place is to make food concerns easier to handle and giving you higher quality food. Along with fertilization, the player will make his life easier when it comes to food, but will have to plan and work for it. Lack of spoilage invalidates farming itself and every other food concern permanently. I think that's a pretty big deal in a survival game, don't you? Not to mention that canned food will become valuable, because the player will have a reason to stockpile it.

 

Spoilage isn't going, I think, to change the basic outcome - that is, that farming is an easy route to ensure food is never a long term concern.

 

All spoilage will do is ensure that you farm (or just harvest, since the grown plants won't spoil in the ground) as needed.

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Spoilage isn't going, I think, change the basic outcome - that is, that farming is an easy route to ensure food is never a long term concern.

 

All spoilage will do is ensure that you farm (or just harvest, since the grown plants won't spoil in the ground) as needed.

 

With adjustments, like a way of maintenance (e.g. bad fertilization causing plants to spoil), it doesn't have to be too easy, but yes, its purpose is to make your life easier. You trigger me when you say "all it will do is make you use a part of the game's content that currently just becomes redudant" :p Plus it's not only farming. Animals with default settings + scavenging are enough to make food obsolete after a while.

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