bloom_meister Posted May 27, 2018 Share Posted May 27, 2018 ....and I still disagree with you? With respect, your comments about understanding how simple pvp is simply displays your ignorance of the metagame that'is' 7dtd pvp. I used to game professionally and the best players where always those that understand the meta, or perhaps to put it simpler for you, the totality of the environment in which they were playing, it is clear that you dont understand this and hence its not worth debating it further with you however I respect your right to your opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roland Posted May 27, 2018 Share Posted May 27, 2018 With respect, your comments about understanding how simple pvp is simply displays your ignorance of the metagame that'is' 7dtd pvp. I used to game professionally and the best players where always those that understand the meta, or perhaps to put it simpler for you, the totality of the environment in which they were playing, it is clear that you dont understand this and hence its not worth debating it further with you however I respect your right to your opinion. Got it. You decided to go with the muggle fantasy.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beelzybub Posted May 27, 2018 Share Posted May 27, 2018 How about a system where a player could only kill another player within say, 5 levels of his or her level. If it could be software enforced I think it would make pvp on 7D2D more interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian9824 Posted May 27, 2018 Share Posted May 27, 2018 You have zero idea how Beatz has implemented fully working, bug free bandits of different types, with different actions and AI on his server and yet accuse others of ignorance.....irony much? you do know that you can modify pretty much anything with enough skill...right? Actually I do know how he and the many others with bandits have done it. It's not difficult and just takes a few lines of xml to add them in. Then you have fully working bug free bandits. The AI, animations, etc are already done and have been in the XML's and game for a while. You can view it by looking at the entityclasses.xml. They also already have loot lists defined and linked which you can see in the loot.xml Then again its always possible he's done something else that no other modder has done, so if you have a link to his mod i'd be glad to check it out. Perhaps he did pay for motion capture, created his own animations, recorded his own voices and replaced TFP's, etc. - - - Updated - - - How about a system where a player could only kill another player within say, 5 levels of his or her level. If it could be software enforced I think it would make pvp on 7D2D more interesting. Very first thing I can imagine is some guy 10 levels under you griefing you and you can't kill him because of that.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SylenThunder Posted May 27, 2018 Share Posted May 27, 2018 ... Very first thing I can imagine is some guy 10 levels under you griefing you and you can't kill him because of that.... I've suggested this previously. It works both ways. Can't attack 5 under or 5 over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian9824 Posted May 27, 2018 Share Posted May 27, 2018 I've suggested this previously. It works both ways. Can't attack 5 under or 5 over. Yeah but what happens when that guy 10 levels under you starts pulling zombies to your base? Or he starts dropping tnt all over your base and you can't stop him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SylenThunder Posted May 27, 2018 Share Posted May 27, 2018 Yeah, I never said it would be easy. Especially with a game set up like this one. Which is why, IMHO, PvP should never really be a thing in 7 Days. The Developers should really never consider doing much in favor of it, and possibly should make changes to outright prevent it except on modded servers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian9824 Posted May 27, 2018 Share Posted May 27, 2018 Yeah, I never said it would be easy. Especially with a game set up like this one. Which is why, IMHO, PvP should never really be a thing in 7 Days. The Developers should really never consider doing much in favor of it, and possibly should make changes to outright prevent it except on modded servers. Yeah the problem is that for every rule you come up with someone will find a way to exploit it. hence why most successful pvp games are built AROUND pvp and its the focus. Most games that have PvP and PvE tend to be unbalanced in one or the other, and constantly nerf or change one aspect to avoid breaking it in another. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Menace312 Posted May 27, 2018 Share Posted May 27, 2018 Yeah the problem is that for every rule you come up with someone will find a way to exploit it. hence why most successful pvp games are built AROUND pvp and its the focus. Most games that have PvP and PvE tend to be unbalanced in one or the other, and constantly nerf or change one aspect to avoid breaking it in another. It seems to me, that the biggest beef users have with PvP is when they log onto a server where griefers lay in wait. I usually play on servers with known users, so I've never really experienced the issue. But I've heard loads of stories on here... So there are two possibilities with the kickstarter goals, as I see it: 1. Prevent PvP all together. 2. Leave it as is, and explain (as has been done countless of times) that this is not a full PvP game. Point 1 will possibly stop all the negative posts about the PvP aspect, but it will take away from the game. Also it may start new post, like: "Why no PvP?". I like point 2. That is, the way it is now... Plenty of other games with focus on PvP. So people can just go a play those. Perhaps TFP should make a final and official statement, about the future of the PvP system. At the very least tell us which way your leaning... People could get the idea, that TFP haven't decided themselves... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Royal Deluxe Posted May 27, 2018 Share Posted May 27, 2018 Perhaps TFP should make a final and official statement, about the future of the PvP system. Duping bug can maybe never really be fixed Enough said ? PVP -> Trash bin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Menace312 Posted May 27, 2018 Share Posted May 27, 2018 Duping bug can maybe never really be fixed Enough said ? PVP -> Trash bin Could be... I dont actually know much about the doping bug. I only know how to dupe using a zombie corpse, and this, at least, have been fixed in many mods I've played. So maybe not impossible... But how you would reliably allow PvP to function, on servers with very varied player level, and still have the PvE be fun, I dont know... I dont have the creativity to figure this one out, without it negatively affecting the unique and fun gameplay of the game... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Royal Deluxe Posted May 27, 2018 Share Posted May 27, 2018 I would not even try to etablish PVP in 7D2D My last server had and my future server will have a simple rule "If you play PVP, you play Death is Death" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eidobunny Posted May 27, 2018 Share Posted May 27, 2018 But how you would reliably allow PvP to function, on servers with very varied player level, and still have the PvE be fun, I dont know... I dont have the creativity to figure this one out, without it negatively affecting the unique and fun gameplay of the game... You play PvE... but also you can PvP... I don't understand how this is hard to figure out where the fun comes from. Like you'll be fighting off a 7th night horde and another player will interrupt and try to attack you at the same time, but they also have to juggle fighting parts of your horde so it becomes doubly difficult for both players to manage both the zombies and the other players. Same with looting in town or whatever. It's a fight over resources instead of just a collection of resources with no contest. PvP is fun the way it is. It adds an entirely new layer of depth to the game. Everything is higher risk, higher reward. Building bases is higher risk and you have to come up with new strategies to defeat potential raiders. You can do detective work and follow someone back to their base and raid it. The possibilities are endless. The base PvE serves as a foundation for this style of PvP to exist. Without the PvE aspect then it's just PUBG or Fortnite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Menace312 Posted May 27, 2018 Share Posted May 27, 2018 I would not even try to etablish PVP in 7D2D My last server had and my future server will have a simple rule "If you play PVP, you play Death is Death" That's a fair rule I'd say... But it doesn't really do away with griefers. A high level player can still lay in wait for newly joined players, and grief them... Until they themselves get killed of cause. You play PvE... but also you can PvP... I don't understand how this is hard to figure out where the fun comes from. Like you'll be fighting off a 7th night horde and another player will interrupt and try to attack you at the same time, but they also have to juggle fighting parts of your horde so it becomes doubly difficult for both players to manage both the zombies and the other players. Same with looting in town or whatever. It's a fight over resources instead of just a collection of resources with no contest. PvP is fun the way it is. It adds an entirely new layer of depth to the game. Everything is higher risk, higher reward. Building bases is higher risk and you have to come up with new strategies to defeat potential raiders. You can do detective work and follow someone back to their base and raid it. The possibilities are endless. The base PvE serves as a foundation for this style of PvP to exist. Without the PvE aspect then it's just PUBG or Fortnite. Errh, you kinda echoed my sentiment exactly... I said that I liked PvP the way it is now, because I dont see how to improve upon it, without negatively affecting PvE gameplay (which I like much more). That said, if you read up on people's stories here on the forum. Users are being unjustly griefed... So how to fix it? That's the whole issue here... Some can't live with it, some can (me). Some official statement, could end the endless discussion on the subject... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Royal Deluxe Posted May 27, 2018 Share Posted May 27, 2018 The simple idea is, that people who want to play PVE can do this. As soon as "Human Bandits" become a nuisance the people will kill them. I better should have said "Who play offensive PVP plays Death is Death " means people who only defend themself are not forced by this. Sure if a high level player camp for newbies, that rule change nothing for the moment. But sooner or later this high level player will be no more a high level player Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eidobunny Posted May 27, 2018 Share Posted May 27, 2018 That's a fair rule I'd say... But it doesn't really do away with griefers. A high level player can still lay in wait for newly joined players, and grief them... Until they themselves get killed of cause. Errh, you kinda echoed my sentiment exactly... I said that I liked PvP the way it is now, because I dont see how to improve upon it, without negatively affecting PvE gameplay (which I like much more). That said, if you read up on people's stories here on the forum. Users are being unjustly griefed... So how to fix it? That's the whole issue here... Some can't live with it, some can (me). Some official statement, could end the endless discussion on the subject... Ah sorry I must have missed some context. People just have to learn if they are griefed they need to get up and move. Being raided is part of PvP if you can't handle it then play PvE or a softcore PvPvE server with limited PvP imo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Menace312 Posted May 27, 2018 Share Posted May 27, 2018 The simple idea is, that people who want to play PVE can do this. As soon as "Human Bandits" become a nuisance the people will kill them. I better should have said "Who play offensive PVP plays Death is Death " means people who only defend themself are not forced by this. Sure if a high level player camp for newbies, that rule change nothing for the moment. But sooner or later this high level player will be no more a high level player Hah! So your server runs the kind of rules my server does . Someone griefs? Person gets hunted and killed Ah sorry I must have missed some context. People just have to learn if they are griefed they need to get up and move. Being raided is part of PvP if you can't handle it then play PvE or a softcore PvPvE server with limited PvP imo No worries Yeah, PvPvE servers are the best! They give you the most freedom, and fun. Players there are also often fun to play with... My experience at least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Royal Deluxe Posted May 27, 2018 Share Posted May 27, 2018 I love pvp in fair environment In 7D2d this is nearly impossible, so if PVP then please RP based If you want nice Teambased PVP have a look here https://store.steampowered.com/app/393380/Squad/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingSlayerGM Posted June 11, 2018 Share Posted June 11, 2018 Bethesda just tried to do what we were talking about: PvE and PvP in the same game at the same time. Can't wait to play fallout 76! Let's hope it is successful so maybe we can learn something from it (; Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kamer1337 Posted June 11, 2018 Share Posted June 11, 2018 In 7D2d this is nearly impossible, so if PVP then please RP based its not just about killing other players. its cool to have other threats like player bandits that want to steal your loot while scavenging, and raiding other bases Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OzHawkeye Posted June 11, 2018 Share Posted June 11, 2018 its not just about killing other players. its cool to have other threats like player bandits that want to steal your loot while scavenging, and raiding other bases I agree with Sylen's earlier post. PvP in this game I feel is very nearly a lost cause. It might sound nice to have the human challenge element, sure, but no matter what TFP does, griefers will find a way around their rules, and in a game where constructing bases can be a big timesink I don't think many people are really going to want to see that done over in a heartbeat, by fair means or foul. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kamer1337 Posted June 11, 2018 Share Posted June 11, 2018 i have played 1500 hours in pvp only, and never saw "griefers", building base on pvp server, player is aware of it being destroyed unless server have rules not destorying other bases. i never got fresh spawn killed, always playing on populated servers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OzHawkeye Posted June 11, 2018 Share Posted June 11, 2018 i have played 1500 hours in pvp only, and never saw "griefers", building base on pvp server, player is aware of it being destroyed unless server have rules not destorying other bases. i never got fresh spawn killed, always playing on populated servers. Your experience certainly differs from mine, though admittedly, it's been a few Alpha's since I last PVP'd or have friends who did. I'm not suggesting the Pimps should take out PVP altogether, but that human inventiveness is never so furiously and doggedly deployed as when one of our kind tries to screw over another. PVP should remain in the game basically as it is, I think, there, but with the strongly bolded caveat that "Civilized PvP" is, more or less, an oxymoron. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roland Posted June 11, 2018 Share Posted June 11, 2018 The official answer has already been given. There will be a separate mode that is designed from the ground up to be PvP. They understand the issues with duping, clipping underground to get a cheating view, and the networking issues caused by voxels and chunk loading. They plan to address these issues for PvP separate from the core game. It just isn't their focus now. For those who like using the core game for PvP regardless of imbalances you'll be able to continue to do that too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Menace312 Posted June 11, 2018 Share Posted June 11, 2018 The official answer has already been given. There will be a separate mode that is designed from the ground up to be PvP. They understand the issues with duping, clipping underground to get a cheating view, and the networking issues caused by voxels and chunk loading. They plan to address these issues for PvP separate from the core game. It just isn't their focus now. For those who like using the core game for PvP regardless of imbalances you'll be able to continue to do that too. Well that summed that all up nicely... Thanks Roland the supermod(el) Guess I missed that official statement on the PvP. So thanks for dropping it here as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.