Underground bases - what's the status of making them vulnerable to zombies?

[meganoth]

This would still leave the problem of those people who make underground bases having no way to combat the spawned in zombie on the other side of the wall short of waiting for them to (eventually!) break through the wall so they could shoot them (short of using iron bars for all their "walls").

 

While I'm no great fan of underground bases per se, I think that would be a little harsh on the mole people.

 

I suspect if you think about it for a day or make a brainstorming session you could find lots of solutions with bigger and smaller drawbacks as well. Here is what I came up with without too much thinking:

 

A) Obvious short cut solution already mentioned is giving mole people the option to turn off whatever is too harsh for them

 

B) Who says some special underground spawned zombie has no special drawbacks? Maybe his claws are so much specialized on digging through ground and stone that he simply can't tunnel through metal. This zombie would still endanger you while digging new tunnels but won't be a danger to your treasure chamber.

 

C) Maybe the dig-zombie can't cross any water blocks. You would build your chamber under a river and flood a layer around that chamber. Either one heavily fortified door would be a small weakness or you build a watergate/airlock out of two doors.

 

D) Underground dangers need not be zombie-related (although I really don't like dangers that have to be countered by brainless grind, see temperature swings)

 

E) Such zombies could spawn underground only as a result of you digging (maybe because you dig out graves down there and wake the skeletons there) and they despawn relatively fast. Once you have dug out your base and a bit of space around it that base is practically safe

 

F) Fast despawn of such zombies plus the non-spawn block (forgot the name, you probably know what I mean).

 

G) There are digging zombies, but they simply don't ever go below a certain depth. That depth MUST be configurable and could go to 0 on highest difficulty

 

H) There are zombie moles (real moles, animals, not player moles). They can't get through metal or really harm you but they close any tunnels behind them, even player made. They are not so much a thread directly but could leave you stuck down there. This needs TFP to add a new feature called suffocation (windows or doors don't count when measuring enclosement)

[Jihh]

Hi all.

I'm more on the reading side on this forum yet, but this discussion is one I like to add my 2 cents to. From both sides there are a lot of arguments I'd like to answer to, but it would take me days to do so, so I'll just keep my post kinda short.

 

I'm not as big as a zombie fan as others, but I watched my fair share of zombie movies and tv shows. As far as I remember there seldom were unsecure hideouts/bases when it comes to just zombies. There is a reason why the protagonists are still alive when we start watching or reading about them. In almost every case the security fails because a) other humans join the scene, b) trouble in paradise or c) something unexpected happens outside and the protagonists doesn't have enough time to take all security measurements on their way back or are too injured.

Since it's a zombie game and not a game with a new kind of monster, it kinda makes sense to actually orientate on existing zombie lore. So it makes sense if bases are somewhat safe even without choosing a hide perk. In a more realistic approach bunkers and high bases are preferable.

Now I get that in a game some things have to be altered in order to offer a better gameplay. But imho the problem isn't that a base is safe and thus somewhat limiting the survival aspect. This is what I actually expected aside from the blood moon nights. I think the problem is the not existing necessity to leave your base past day three. And of course, if you can stay in your base day and night without leaving it, then a low maintenance and somewhat safe base is a big problem and I understand that then there is a change needed. And while you can argue that there are reasons to leave your base past day 3, I'll have to say that after I got 34 mechanical parts and two small engines I won't leave the immediate perimeter of my base for days. And I don't even have a underground or stilt base. In my last games I took over a small poi, built a garden to the left and planted some trees to the right. I usually play on the higher difficulties, sometimes with zombies running day and night, loot on 25% and 60 minute days. So it's not like a take the easy path to be done at day three.

Of course after some time I leave my base again, but not because I need to survival wise, but because I like to learn every schematic/book and because at some time I get bored just building my base and killing the one to two hordes a day.

 

So as I see it, the survival aspect of underground bases isn't missing because those bases are too safe, but because the survival aspect of the game overall is missing, since you you can stay alive with just a 20x20 yucca farm, which can be placed beneath your overground base, on your stilt base or in a underground garden in your underground base. The additional risks on the first one don't really matter for how few time you need to harvest and sow those.

 

This won't change due to some zombies digging. What we actually need (imho) is a necessity to leave your base 14+ hours a day on average and (since we aren't sleeping in the game und thus have spare hours) 6+ hours of maintenance a day on average. The maintenance part can be different according to the kind of base you have. While overground bases get more damage, the maintenance could be managed with a need to repair those. In underground bases the maintenance could be keeping up your ventilation system plus repairing your exits.

Implement a ventilation system with effects similar to diving and let it produce heat, so screamer go for them. Let them scream near your exhaust air pipes and let zombies clog them. There you have a necessity to get outside and maintain your base. The more heat you produce the more zombies are waiting for you. And better don't wait until it's already fully clogged, since that could happen in the middle of the night. Also make screamer related zombies harder, so you actually have to get better weapons and put some talent points into combat.

That's a challenge I would actually like and I even would start doing underground bases. Digging zombies on the other hand would just keep me from going underground at all. You wouldn't want to engange zombies in small rooms ever in a zombie apocalypse (and also not outside of a zombie apocalypse). Of course this can't be avoided all the time, since you have to loot buildings, but why would I ever dig down to them? Survival wise this doesn't make sense at all and instead of making a biome more interesting, it would make it expendable to me.

 

Now as I already said, we need a necessity to leave your base outside of maintenance and gardening. This is a whole new topic, so I won't go into it, but please consider that in my opinion a base should just be for horde nights, crafting, storage and "sleeping". With the reason that you have stuff to do outside to be able to survive.

[Typhon13]

I dug a bunch of tunnels 2 wide and 4 high at a downward angle to bedrock. There are a few in the desert and forest and one in the snow.

 

They're connected at bedrock level and have dozens of mining shafts heading in every direction. They form a maze that is easy to get lost in if you leave the main tunnels.

 

Every time I go down there I end up running into zombies. I have good guns and they're easy enough to deal with, but it's way easier above ground where there is more room to move.

[Kurogo]

Just to be clear I want both. I’d be satisfied with one single special zombie type that can dig because then I could mod the ability to the rest of them for my own game. Personally, I have VERY fond memories of when all zombies could dig and I liked the aesthetics of and the danger of entering Swiss cheese terrain.

 

To a degree, Cop Zombies are capable of that now. I wonder if it's possible to modify their vomit attack behavior so it doesn't need line of sight to the player.

[hillbilly]

4.7 thousand hours in 7dtd, still a fun game, still a great way to burn up a Saturday night. What made this game so great, what made this game so special is the fact a player can play ANY WAY THEY WANT TO. Want to be a farmer, want to be a builder, want to be a scavenger, want to be a miner it's all possible. When I see threads like this it just turns my stomach, you play how you want to play and don't worry about how other people want to play. I really hope the fun pimps are smart enough to disregard trash threads such as this one, because as soon as they remove the options to play as one chooses is as soon as this games dies. Many changes have been made that I do not like, and many more changes have been made that I really enjoy, but through all these changes the concept and the principal has remained the same, change that and you change the game, change the game and I can assure you many old players like myself will just be done with it. This game being what it is, is why I play. I am 40 years old as of this past May, I am NOT a gamer, I used to play tons of video games as a teenager but much much less so as an adult, games are a waste of life, time and usually money, 7dtd is not like any other "game", imo, strip these qualities and I would wager you will lose a massive chunk of your audience, players such as myself who really aren't "gamers" but love this game.

[Crater Creator]

What made this game so great, what made this game so special is the fact a player can play ANY WAY THEY WANT TO. Want to be a farmer, want to be a builder, want to be a scavenger, want to be a miner it's all possible. When I see threads like this it just turns my stomach, you play how you want to play and don't worry about how other people want to play.

 

Farmer, builder, scavenger, miner... what if I want to be a survivor? That is, a character for which survival is a challenge, even when ruthlessly leveraging every oppurtunity the world provides, including the underground.

 

Your statement is false. I can’t play the way I want to, as a survivor, in the survival horde crafting game.

[TSBX]

4.7 thousand hours in 7dtd, still a fun game, still a great way to burn up a Saturday night. What made this game so great, what made this game so special is the fact a player can play ANY WAY THEY WANT TO. Want to be a farmer, want to be a builder, want to be a scavenger, want to be a miner it's all possible. When I see threads like this it just turns my stomach, you play how you want to play and don't worry about how other people want to play. I really hope the fun pimps are smart enough to disregard trash threads such as this one, because as soon as they remove the options to play as one chooses is as soon as this games dies. Many changes have been made that I do not like, and many more changes have been made that I really enjoy, but through all these changes the concept and the principal has remained the same, change that and you change the game, change the game and I can assure you many old players like myself will just be done with it. This game being what it is, is why I play. I am 40 years old as of this past May, I am NOT a gamer, I used to play tons of video games as a teenager but much much less so as an adult, games are a waste of life, time and usually money, 7dtd is not like any other "game", imo, strip these qualities and I would wager you will lose a massive chunk of your audience, players such as myself who really aren't "gamers" but love this game.

 

Yeah eventually underground bases won't be as viable one way or another. Lack of oxygen, vitamin d deficiency, black lung from mining in enclosed spaces and better zombie pathing come to mind as the best solutions.

 

Underground is boring. It should not be boring. It should have emergent gameplay based on the environment. I hope this post was helpful god bless.

[Roland]

4.7 thousand hours in 7dtd, still a fun game, still a great way to burn up a Saturday night. What made this game so great, what made this game so special is the fact a player can play ANY WAY THEY WANT TO. Want to be a farmer, want to be a builder, want to be a scavenger, want to be a miner it's all possible. When I see threads like this it just turns my stomach, you play how you want to play and don't worry about how other people want to play. I really hope the fun pimps are smart enough to disregard trash threads such as this one, because as soon as they remove the options to play as one chooses is as soon as this games dies. Many changes have been made that I do not like, and many more changes have been made that I really enjoy, but through all these changes the concept and the principal has remained the same, change that and you change the game, change the game and I can assure you many old players like myself will just be done with it. This game being what it is, is why I play. I am 40 years old as of this past May, I am NOT a gamer, I used to play tons of video games as a teenager but much much less so as an adult, games are a waste of life, time and usually money, 7dtd is not like any other "game", imo, strip these qualities and I would wager you will lose a massive chunk of your audience, players such as myself who really aren't "gamers" but love this game.

 

None of the changes suggested would stop anyone from playing how they want to play. If someone wanted to build a bunker at bedrock they still could do it. That option will never be taken away unless Rust Buddy gets his wish...

 

Being a mole person in the world imagined by those who want a change would be just like being a forest dweller. Just because there are threats and challenges in the forest biome nobody has been forcibly stopped from building there and playing there. They do it in spite of the threats and have more fun because of the threats.

 

The same would be true of the underworld. How do I know? Because for many alphas in this game zombies dug down and always gps'ed to your position-- not just once a week. Were there no mole people back then? The answer is that there were and I was one of them. Then things changed for the worse in order to protect the beauty of the countryside and a lackluster underworld has been the result since then.

 

Except for additional environmental hazards nothing being proposed in this thread is new. It is simply a call to return to how the game used to be in a way that wholly preserves the holy landscape and keeps it from getting holey.

[hillbilly]

preserves the holy landscape and keeps it from getting holey.

 

Right, because as any server operator can tell you, digging zombies is a BAD idea. The lag it causes and some of the unintended consequences ruin the game, and the server. Not you in particular, but it cracks me up some of these guys having a hundred or so hours in the game have become experts based on what other games do. Digging zombies will DESTROY MP servers.

[Roland]

How could you leave out the word “wholly” when you quoted me?!??!

[TSBX]

How could you leave out the word “wholly” when you quoted me?!??!

 

Squints at username.

[SittingDuck]

I don´t miss danger in the undergrund.... If you like to dig go for it. I would like to see Zombies beeing smart enough to go for a tunnel.

But right at the moment i would rather see another playarea flles with life: Water... That totaly borring atm.

[ktr]

If the goal is to add risk to underground building, I'd rather see it come from sources other than digging zombies. Perhaps the elimination of underground farms after a certain depth/lower yield/chance of crop failure all due to lack of light. I do think generally it should take longer for plants to grow and maybe the chance of crop failure anyway. I don't know if some mechanic similar to drowning could be introduced but instead of water, stagnant air/CO2 becomes a problem.

 

I would like to see more caverns/old mines in the underground, but I can see where adding those kinds of POIs could be a pain for anyone building who doesn't realize there are mine shafts below them and inexplicably causes their base to crumble.

 

Personally, the biggest boon to building underground is the ability to prep for a new building project without needing to deal with the constant stream of screamers, especially in later days when they bring irradiateds in with them.

[Roland]

I don´t miss danger in the undergrund.... If you like to dig go for it. I would like to see Zombies beeing smart enough to go for a tunnel.

But right at the moment i would rather see another playarea flles with life: Water... That totaly borring atm.

 

How dare you. Those of us who like to walk/hop vertically through water, enjoy the water holes, like the bare dirt aesthetics, and enjoy the lack of any sort of POI or enemy presence would appreciate you leaving us alone. Don’t forcibly remove our playstyle!

[meganoth]

Right, because as any server operator can tell you, digging zombies is a BAD idea. The lag it causes and some of the unintended consequences ruin the game, and the server.

 

Well, thats the job of the developers to remove unintended consequences from their features. I have faith in the creativity of TFP that they don't just turn on digging zombies like they were in the ancient past of A12 or somewhere, but that whatever gets implemented is Version 2 with improvements.

 

Digging zombies will DESTROY MP servers

 

"Cars have a speed of 15 mph and need a handcrank to start". Both statements were true once.

[Guppycur]

How dare you. Those of us who like to walk/hop vertically through water, enjoy the water holes, like the bare dirt aesthetics, and enjoy the lack of any sort of POI or enemy presence would appreciate you leaving us alone. Don’t forcibly remove our playstyle!

 

Well, you're playing it wrong, because it's not the pimp vision! I mean sure, they don't seem to implement their vision all of the time, but it's concept artso it should be played as a reality!

[Roland]

Well, you're playing it wrong

 

That is the worst possible phrase that can be typed on these forums and you typed it at me? I....i cant believe it....

[Guppycur]

That is the worst possible phrase that can be typed on these forums and you typed it at me? I....i cant believe it....

 

Worse than "I'll have a video tomorrow", or "It'll drop next week"?

 

...I don't think so.

 

btw, in my head, I'm shawn and you're gus. Just saying.

[Roland]

Worse than "I'll have a video tomorrow", or "It'll drop next week"?

 

...I don't think so.

 

Nothing wrong with those phrases only the non-delivery and honestly you should have tough emotional walls built up against that by year five...

 

btw, in my head, I'm shawn and you're gus. Just saying.

 

It's not nice to use the good years of TWD that way. Also, in my head you're Bob and I'm random Terminus guy who didn't get Rambo'ed by Carol.

[Sakurambo]

Personally, the biggest boon to building underground is the ability to prep for a new building project without needing to deal with the constant stream of screamers, especially in later days when they bring irradiateds in with them.

if you place 2 or 3 row of log spikes around the house you didn't even notice the screamer until you find it's remains

and if you are outside the base build while you crouch, the moment you are spotted you can kill it

when you build outside don't keep forge or others station running

i play this way and i never see more then a couple of screamersin a day(120 minutes long)

 

btw, in my head, I'm shawn and you're gus. Just saying.

you mean you're shawn and he is Bud?

[SylenThunder]

This thread has totally fallen underground. What was the discussion again?

 

I'll have to go dig it up somewhere....

[Roland]

Thread enhancement is a fine art...

[Roland]

And.....end of debate.

 

...there will be no safe place on horde night. The old cheesy rooftop exploit or digging underground will not save you.

 

Zombies haven't been able to dig down for a long time now, that will get fixed if it isn't.

[TSBX]

Right now, I feel like a nihilist would while watching the bombs fall.

[Gamida]

Show of hands...who here builds above ground bases and think underground bases are boring because they offer no challange.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Now out of those who is going to build underground bases if there are danger elements added to them and who is going to keep building above ground and smirk because mole people are now getting "what they deserve"

 

 

 

 

 

 

*above comments are attempt at humor to lighten up the mood before TFP thinks the next game they should make is "7 Days To Die II: Airbreathers vs The Molepeople."

 

 

 

(Yay, a 7DTD PVP game)