Developer Discussions: Alpha 17

[Aldranon]

Aww boo I just caught that the Behemoth is officially dropped.

 

I am assuming that it isn't a joke seeing as how Roland made the recent changes and how ziplines were also dropped?

 

Sorry about your baby Roland. It was a valiant effort!

 

They needed to focus on Airships so something had to go.

[VagraintPuncher]

Quick Question

 

Do you know if we will ever see Flares or flare guns in the future, that would make things pretty exciting, especially at night when you cant see your friends.

[Prisma501]

Do you know if we will ever see Flares or flare guns in the future, that would make things pretty exciting, especially at night when you cant see your friends.

 

Lets call it zedmagnet!

 

Cheers

[Jackelmyer]

Do you know if we will ever see Flares or flare guns in the future, that would make things pretty exciting, especially at night when you cant see your friends.

 

Lets call it zedmagnet!

 

Cheers

 

Oh I want that! Fire off a flare into the street and draw out whatever zombies are in the area. Flare = big heat map.

[meganoth]

And please don't sugar coat this by saying you are not telling me how to pay the game, you are when you make remarks such as :

 

just give us these to harass the underground dwellers:

 

Yes, whoever said that wants to influence how others play the game. Since the pic didn't show up, was it a server owner who said this? Then he is somewhat entitled to say it because he (selfishly) wants that possibility for harrassing the players on HIS OWN server, not everyone else. Also PVP players are surely interested in having this in the game to harass other PVP players on the same server. Again, they ideally want a specific group to be harassed, not everyone, not you. They therefore should be perfectly fine with that harassment being optional, even when they put it in such absolute terms.

 

Since I took part in the discussion about this feature, let me "sugar coat this" by saying I definitely don't want to tell you how to play the game, also I'm neither server owner nor PVP player. I'm also not interested in what effect that feature may have on other players, except as an answer to the hypothetical question "How could the underground get dangerous in an interesting way, so that I and others could like it?"

 

So for me, a toxic underground for example is not an universally desirable option because at least until now I have not heard of an interesting mechanic to make that fun in any way. This would be a perfect service for PVP servers though, so if I had any say (which I don't have) I could imagine giving the order to put it in as something PVP server owners could mod in.

 

Also I believe we didn't yet find the golden bullet of zombie diggers. If there was an easy solution TFP would probably have already implemented it. Well, partly they have, because a silver bullet would be zombies that follow breadcrumps, so that they attack any underground base the same way the PC enters the underground base. Would need the ability of zombies to attack trap doors and follow you no matter how many zig-zagging detours are in-between.

 

That would make defending an underground base a manageable task as you know from where zombies might attack and don't need defenses all around.

[ThomasSurvives]

TFP has already stated they want the world to be dangerous, this is a zombie tower defense game as well, not just survival if you make the zombies pointless well it's not that type of game anymore, I think TFP is being generous as it is allowing there to be an option to turn off zombies in the first place, Eventually hiding underground will not be as safe as it is now, either by digging zombies or other hazards.

 

When it comes to going outside, currently in A16, it is easy to do so, the stealth system has broken the zombies somewhat, so you can easily do night looting and never really have an issue, The stealth system is cool, but I cannot wait until it is tweaked in a way that night time hasn't become easy mode.

[VagraintPuncher]

Oh I want that! Fire off a flare into the street and draw out whatever zombies are in the area. Flare = big heat map.

 

I think it would be beneficial especially on horde night, if you dont have night vision or helmet light yet, you could light up the air temporarily, or throw one down into caves or dark rooms, but also luring out zombies, it would be pretty sweet all around.

[graphite]

TFP has already stated they want the world to be dangerous, this is a zombie tower defense game as well, not just survival if you make the zombies pointless well it's not that type of game anymore, I think TFP is being generous as it is allowing there to be an option to turn off zombies in the first place, Eventually hiding underground will not be as safe as it is now, either by digging zombies or other hazards.

 

When it comes to going outside, currently in A16, it is easy to do so, the stealth system has broken the zombies somewhat, so you can easily do night looting and never really have an issue, The stealth system is cool, but I cannot wait until it is tweaked in a way that night time hasn't become easy mode.

 

I think it is a case of people not being allowed to discuss and debate a possible feature or even a rough idea and a safespace being drawn round any players way they play the game.

 

I think it will be a case of waiting until a feature is in a release build until it can be debated and even then if personal opinions upset some people we may need to just leave it to negative feedback and let TFP decide on the action if any.

 

Seems kind of pointless to me and takes some of the interest out of developer insight but that is way we are and have headed.

[Jackelmyer]

TFP has already stated they want the world to be dangerous, this is a zombie tower defense game as well, not just survival if you make the zombies pointless well it's not that type of game anymore, I think TFP is being generous as it is allowing there to be an option to turn off zombies in the first place, Eventually hiding underground will not be as safe as it is now, either by digging zombies or other hazards.

 

When it comes to going outside, currently in A16, it is easy to do so, the stealth system has broken the zombies somewhat, so you can easily do night looting and never really have an issue, The stealth system is cool, but I cannot wait until it is tweaked in a way that night time hasn't become easy mode.

 

Dude if that attitude is implemented 7D2D is gonna lose a ton of followers and revenue.

 

And turning off Zombie spawn isn't generous. It's a freaking smart feature implemented to.... Bring in more players... And... Revenue.

 

And I'd hate to play your way with stealthing. Stealth I don't see as broken as if you're to close too a Zombie asleep, they'll wake. And if you're too close a zombie that's awake, but much further than a sleeping Zombie, you'll draw it's attention. People are talking about sleepers catching them off guard all the time. And at night, that can begin a hell of a exciting moment.

 

Smell is broken. Stealth may have busted it. But stealth is actually pretty cool as is. The only thing that I think they need to do is make it so if you attack, it has a greater potential to wake up near by sleepers.

 

But nah. You're "one way to play" mentality is a revenue and ratings disaster that TFP already isn't following. Because... They're smart.

[Royal Deluxe]

how the hell are you supporting such mass?

 

Math and this very small scrapsiding

[Jackelmyer]

Math and this very small scrapsiding

 

That's just funny. But I want to see leaping zombies at some point. With a 8 block vertical leap. Just one type of zombie that can do it. Just to freak the hell out of you and risk nudging me off my perch. :-p But seeing some zombie come barreling in from the distance on horde night and bound up onto my platform would be pretty freaking scary and cool. lol. I like active zombies as opposed to brute zombies like cops and ferals.

[69WithAzombie]

Madmole... Will we ever see any special type of jumping zombies? That would be pretty cool to see them jumping towards players that would normally be completely safe!

[Royal Deluxe]

a Jumping zombie that lost his intestines during jump other zombies can use as climbing ropes XD

[ZedBullfrog]

a Jumping zombie that lost his intestines during jump other zombies can use as climbing ropes XD

 

... or perhaps zombie double-dutch??

 

They invite you to play then eat your brains.

[Aurelius]

But nah. You're "one way to play" mentality is a revenue and ratings disaster that TFP already isn't following. Because... They're smart.

 

I'm confused - what "one way to play" that Thomas mentioned are you referring to?

 

I remember MadMole stating that "they want the world to be dangerous."

 

-A

[Jackelmyer]

I'm confused - what "one way to play" that Thomas mentioned are you referring to?

 

I remember MadMole stating that "they want the world to be dangerous."

 

-A

 

"They want the world to be dangerous" doesn't translate into "We won't let players figure out safe havens of some sort.". Madmole actually referenced paying off like the Duke or something for a night in a hotel to avoid horde night.

 

And the one way to play was a reference to the theme of his points. The theme I took from it was the taking away potential player safe havens.

 

That is not entirely true, we plan on possibly letting players rent a room at a trader some day and have safe storage for a fairly steep price. This is to allow players to go on quests and be more nomadic and enjoy the story (play more like fallout 4) without having to deal with a 7 day horde or build a base for that matter. Because when the AI is done, they will shred your base or at least any cruddy old bar roof top won't be safe as it is now.

 

We want to support all kinds of player builds, so if you want to be a sneaky assassin type or brawler with a sledgehammer, a commando, doctor, scientist inventor, whatever you can. And fort defense every 7 days might not fit into every play style so there should be options to join factions and pay your dues to not have to deal with that if you want to. We are working on a massive skill overhaul which will make for many interesting character builds and also allow some role playing and more than one obvious path to success. Right now its basically one class "survivor" and that isn't cutting it.

 

While not entirely a safe home, safe havens of sorts are planned.

[Royal Deluxe]

Whoa there, cowboy!

Even "just" the layout of Egosoft's mod list would take quite some effort on the side of the moderators - and the modders who submit the entries correctly.

(I know. I was an S&M moderator on that site...)

 

That "staff" starts playing every mod long enough to give it a reasonable rating is out of the question. Not happening.

 

With Egosoft it was common to pick the S&M Moderators out of the modding community for the simply reason that

- they are dedicated to modding

- they have a clue about modding so might actually be able to answer relevant questions.

You are right, and Egosofts sign system is not 100% Transferable, not even 50% i would think, but a Community driven, TFP controlled Checklist would maybe deliver a small amount of characteristics that make the normal player the choice of a mod/Server with mod much more easy.

 

The Workshop own "Like it stars" system on the other side will it not from my experience

[Jackelmyer]

a Jumping zombie that lost his intestines during jump other zombies can use as climbing ropes XD

 

That's actually a pretty freaky and awesome image invoked. :-D

 

Can you imagine these platform bases with gore hanging down from the gore blocks left and zombies crawling up the guts? lol ERMAGERD!

[Gazz]

Smell is broken. Stealth may have busted it. But stealth is actually pretty cool as is. The only thing that I think they need to do is make it so if you attack, it has a greater potential to wake up near by sleepers.

Yes, the "loudness" values of sounds like zombie utterings or hits are quite low.

Could be higher. Probably should be... but A17 changes a lot of behind the scenes framework of how the numbers add up and it's really hard to tweak something when you don't know exactly what the function will be.

[Jackelmyer]

Yes, the "loudness" values of sounds like zombie utterings or hits are quite low.

Could be higher. Probably should be... but A17 changes a lot of behind the scenes framework of how the numbers add up and it's really hard to tweak something when you don't know exactly what the function will be.

 

ooOOooo. More teases! Sweet! So maybe if I thump a zombie on one side of a room, the zombie on the other side will actually wake up?

 

Would be kinda cool if bladed weapons, more specifically piercing weapons, were more apt to do 1 shot kills on sleeping zombies, at a really close range, and not be prone to waking up near by zombies. But pretty much anything else, like clubs, the thump is louder than the piercing weapon. That'd be a bit more TWDish right?

[Gazz]

You are right, and Egosofts sign system is not 100% Transferable, not even 50% i would think, but a Community driven, TFP controlled Checklist would maybe deliver a small amount of characteristics that make the normal player the choice of a mod/Server with mod much more easy.

 

The Workshop own "Like it stars" system on the other side will it not from my experience

Could modders not cook up their own rating system?

 

Maybe enter their mods in a community access spreadsheet where only modders give each other access rights.

 

Then people could come up with what kind of statistics make sense and what point system it should be.

Having TFP staff doing the rating? I just cant see that happening.

 

Another spreadsheet / form could then tap into that and provide sorting / filtering and such... for end users.

 

I mean in principle that's what the Workshop does... but by necessity it's a one size fits all solution.

[Royal Deluxe]

In a few weeks when i make my mod for 16.4 Stable i research a first maybe working idea and start then a thread about that topic.

Lets see if we can make something sensefull

[Gazz]

ooOOooo. More teases! Sweet! So maybe if I thump a zombie on one side of a room, the zombie on the other side will actually wake up?

 

Would be kinda cool if bladed weapons, more specifically piercing weapons, were more apt to do 1 shot kills on sleeping zombies, at a really close range, and not be prone to waking up near by zombies. But pretty much anything else, like clubs, the thump is louder than the piercing weapon. That'd be a bit more TWDish right?

In principle that's how it works right now. (take a look in sounds.xml)

 

It's very rough but sounds do stack up so 3 thumps for "5 sound" in quick succession will wake up a zombie that needs "15 sound" to wake up.

The range, loudness, and fade delay will take a loooot of tinkering to "get right" but there are a lot of changes going on in the mumblemumble and I don't want to put the cart before the zombie.

[Kalex]

Wait, are you saying that if you change a setting that normally is in the drop down menu as their own preset it goes to modded?

 

I was only speaking on if you alter an xml or say change stacknumbers. That's modding. But changing Loot respawn to a a preset from the Pimps own drop down menu is considered modded?

 

If so I am sorry but this is incredibly stupid. Like entry level stupid. Im totally on your side then. ANYTHING I can select as a preset should NEVER be in modded.

 

I agree with you 100%.

[Janna3921]

The person who made the remark of "just give us these to harass the underground dwellers:" I am giving him/her the benefit of the doubt as it was a joke type remark, but there have been many remarks of that type not only in the Devs Diary but some time back on the discussion board one that some (and I was probably one of them) got very testy over such a viewpoint.

I don't like the idea of someone decided how I should play a game that allows freedom to play how you want. If TFPs decide to add digging zombies, or teleporting ones, or invisible ones that is different. They are the devs and can do what they want with the game. It reminds me of someone who posted some time back of how everyone should play on default always, that if you didin't you were cheating. Options were given by the fun pimps so a variety of players could play the game. For those who are experts at such games they can make it harder, if you know how to mod you can change it so you have more zombies, or replace the average zombie with the more dangerous ones.

 

I don't know anything about programming, developing so I don't know if it is possible but for those who want the challenge of digging zombies, that see it as a positive, couldn't they make it a option in the Warrior or Insane or whatever is the highest setting? Fix it so those who feel they are advanced enough, are a expert, experienced player can have that option. A toggle or something that lets those who want diggers can have them and those who don't are able to leave them out. Not everyone can mod, for those who don't know how it could be a game breaker.

 

On jumpers, I think that is a good idea, not wild about the stupid spider zombies but that is because it should be able to crawl over the overhangs, not get stopped by them. The jumping jack behavior of the zombies is silly, frustrating and time wasting, same as when they decide to make circles instead of attacking a player. Smell is messed up from stealth, stealth probably needs some work but I think for the most part it is good. Sleepers constant respawning, which had been fixed in a16.3stable became screwed up to the max in a16.4 experimental and probably won't be fixed until a17 (a guess on my part, hope I am wrong). Zombies who are the highly dangerous ones don't drop loot and there are a slew of problems.

 

BUT, the game is great and has so much potential that these problems can be lived with for the most part; although for some it is so bad it is game breaking. I don't think TFPs are ignoring it, they are probably working on it, but it is a problem.

I am hoping that we can put the digger zombies to bed for a long time and let TFPs make the decisions on what they want in the game and hope it fits what I want, highly likely it won't, but I can still hope.