Trader Prices

[Crater Creator]

I think most players would agree that the trader's asking price to buy some of your stuff still needs some balance work. It occurs to me that isolating which prices aren't tuned should be pretty easy, compared to balancing other things.

 

Even though the game's economy isn't dynamic, every player is effectively an arbitrageur, looking through the inventory to buy things with the most value for the lowest price, and sell things with the least value for the highest price. So just by asking what's best to buy or sell to the trader, we can get data on which items may have economic values that are artificially high or low.

 

So... What's the best thing to buy or sell at the trader?

 

I'll go first. To sell, my answer is hazmat clothes. With a barter level in the 50s, I sold an orange quality hazmat shirt to a trader for about 2000 Dukes. Other hazmat clothes sell for similar prices, which I think is tied to military fiber, the material from which they're made.

 

For now, the only value of hazmat clothes is that they are especially warm. Unless I'm mistaken, their high radiation protection has no actual effect in the game (yet). So their value to the player is more comparable to 'regular' cloth or leather clothing. Until radiation is a real part of the game, I would suggest hazmat clothes be disabled, or otherwise significantly reduced in economic value.

 

As for what's best to buy from the trader, value-wise, weapons would be at the top of my list. Specifically, you can often get a pretty darn good melee weapon for 1000 Dukes or less - one that will last you multiple weeks in the early or mid-game before you outgrow it. In other words, if these were more expensive, they'd still be worth buying in this player's judgment.

 

Agree? Disagree? Let's help dial this in.

[saulysw]

If you come across the Oil Refinery POI then those barrels are a pretty good sell.

 

As for buying, I agree, early game the melee weapons are good value. I got a decent spiked club before I knew how to make one and that lasted me until I could. Sometimes an early wrench or beaker can help too.

 

As for pricing balance, it seems ok to me. Most of the stuff I really want always seems overpriced!

[Royal Deluxe]

Start by selling Flowers (Cotton, Snowberrys, Golden rod ) if you find no Poi with items

then clothes in stacks of 11

then leather in stacks of 5-11

(Oil barrels are only good if i play not this server ^^)

and then your Skill should be high enough so that you need to make more than 100 Coins for a (Skill) Levelup

* Tires

* All you can Harvest from Cars

* Empty Jars if you can make them in Huge amounts (Base in Desert)

* Steel tools

* Duct Tape (if you kill many Zombies)

* Drawbridges

[Vedui]

Well, can I agree and disagree at the same time?

 

I do agree that some things have a price which does not seem to reflect its utility, such as the hazmat. Theoretically if it did protect against radiation (and if that was a hazard) then yes, but since there is no radiation except edge map .. which hazmat won't protect against, it really is overpriced.

 

On the other hand, I disagree in the sense that the player is or always should be the determiner of price imbalances. I would rather the trade reflect the general sentiment TFP is trying to build into the game, the atmosphere and not always necessarily functional aspects. Ie, if food is seen as very scarce, then food prices should be high. Now since players usually end up farming/scavenging for a lot of food and build up nice supplies, food quickly becomes a non event for us, but for the general "remaining" population it might still be a major thing. So prices should reflect that. The player isn't necessarily the "average man" around. And even among the players, each one plays slightly (or very) differently. One might hardly ever use fire arms, preferring melee and bows. Does this mean guns/ammo should be cheap, as they're not in demand by that player? And vice versa. If it's based on what players do, how do you even determine what the player does?

 

I'd rather have trader prices reflect general world scarcities and demands.

 

/Vedui -

[Xartan]

Cloth, for how easy it is to get (ie. tent camps) is over-valued.

 

I don't generally use the trader for much -- I prefer finding loot on my own (and saving for solar) -- and in my current world, the only stuff I've sold:

- known recipes (this is my main source of income)

- cash

- sneakers

- business suits

 

I haven't gone on a single treasure hunt yet and my barter skill is at 60 (I think I'm around day 37, SP). Imo, bartering skill is too easy to progress compared to most other things.

[chaosterone]

I don't use firearms much, except when I can score or build an SMG, sniper or AK-47, so I sell most of my gun parts: even low quality pistols, rifles and shotguns. Repaired suit jackets, hazmat/military gear, puffers and dusters are good to sell early on.

 

Cash earned from these lets me buy parts for the guns I want and any schematics I haven't found. It also lets me get good quality spiked clubs and crossbows in the first few days, loooong before I could make that quality.

 

I shamelessly visit the traders because the more junk I sell, the more he pays me and his stuff gets less expensive. Later in the game solar panels and weapons are affordable. To me, the traders are just another option for building and outfitting your character.

[themirror]

known recipes, cloth, old cash, leather, business suit, and other coats... the gold mine

[SURU4]

Always sell REPAIRED items. They can even double the value as new/used.

[Royal Deluxe]

Always sell REPAIRED items. They can even double the value as new/used.

Depends, a weapon that gives 300 Coins and repaired 600 Coins is no Repair kit worth.

 

But yes, most items should be repaired

[Scyris]

I sell oh boy lets see, Any leather I have above 20, excess cloth if I don't need/plan to level medicine anytime soon, all the stuff from cars save for engines/batterys stack and sell for a ton (they stack up to 500+), Plastic like from axeing the chars in the school poi sells for alot mostly due to its large stack sizes. ANYTHING you can wrench again stacks like crazy and sells decent per piece. I even sell excess scrap iron as I don't need anywhere near as much as I pickup from wrenching/scrapping things. Coat type items sell well too as its been mentioned and are easy to repair to get the full value from them. Duct tape is also a good seller, as bones are common as hell from zombies, 2 bones and 1 murky water=1 glue, or 1 bone 1 water at a chem lab. Cloth you'll almost always have excess of to make duct tape.

 

As for stuff I buy from traders? Good weapons, tools, I buy forged steel as well if they have any even early game. Get 4 mechanical parts from trader or the skater zombies to make my own first wrench. I get most of my gun ammo from them as there is little else to buy that I need. I never get the armor craft skill I just buy my armor off trader (iron gloves, boots, legs, chest) the goal is not to get hit in the first place in 7dtd.

 

Its always nice starting a new game and seeing a 500+ quality iron pickaxe, or a good melee weap or a machete, even better if said trader has a workbench as you can make a iron pickaxe and combine it to repair the 500+ quality one without having quality loss. You can't increase its quality unless you can craft one thats less than 100 points quality diff, but you can repair it with the same item without losing quality regardless of your skill. I also use this for gun parts. Or really for anything I can't craft/restore the quality on myself. As its been mentioned you can get good melee weapons cheapish, I go for hunting knifes of any quality for 2nd best harvest results, or better a machete for best results as anyone can repair a machete, and forged steel is often sold at traders and I usually buy them out even early game if I can afford it. I usually make a steel pickaxe around level 30 once I get 20 athletics and decent miner69er and then switch to steel tools. for best resource gathered modifier. For melee weapons, I usually go for a high qual machete (as forged steel can be gotten at lv 1 from traders), or a high quality barbed club (i get barbed for same reason as machete, anyone can repair them) If I have the spiked club recipie so I can repair it, or forge/get a new one to fuse at the workbench to repair it, i'll go for a good spiked club from trader.

 

I stick to bladed weapons usually as my melee weapon of choice, since it serves a dual purpose and saves me a inventory slot. Inv space is precious, I don't got enough spare I can waste on a club when my hunting knife or especally machete can do the job well too. Though I won't replace a club with the hunting knife unless I am able to craft hunting knifes.

 

I honestly think you should be allowed to repair anything even without the manual, just maybe have to take a bigger quality hit by maybe 25-30% since you don't know how to make it, and it costs more mats to repair it due to possible screw ups during the repair.

 

- - - Updated - - -

 

Depends, a weapon that gives 300 Coins and repaired 600 Coins is no Repair kit worth.

 

But yes, most items should be repaired

 

actually if it only takes 1 repair kit to do it, itd be worth it. as Their base price is 186 iirc. It'd still be a profit. But I think he meant stuff that can be repaired with common stuff like forged iron, scrap iron, cloth or leather, or even wood.

[Viktoriusiii]

Okay since nobody seems to notice the most obvious and most brutal overpricing that I abuse like crazy:

the machete blade.

200 iron 40 clay for ~700 dukes EACH and NO SELLING LIMIT! so basically you can sell 150 of them which are about 75k dukes. completly broken

[Vedui]

Okay since nobody seems to notice the most obvious and most brutal overpricing that I abuse like crazy:

the machete blade.

200 iron 40 clay for ~700 dukes EACH and NO SELLING LIMIT! so basically you can sell 150 of them which are about 75k dukes. completly broken

 

Ouch

 

Well, it shows that non-resource items really need a limit per trader, much like many of the items. Or do a gradual decrease in price as he stocks up, to the point where he'd be buying them for less than the resources are worth.

[Katitof]

Trader prices are fine, that includes hazmat suit.

It might be warm only at the moment, but its still "end game" stuff which doesn't drop for every second Z.

 

@vedui

@Viktoriusiii

 

Machete blades -are- resource item, basically anything that does not have durability and is not consumable is a resource item.

[Kattla]

Okay since nobody seems to notice the most obvious and most brutal overpricing that I abuse like crazy:

the machete blade.

200 iron 40 clay for ~700 dukes EACH and NO SELLING LIMIT! so basically you can sell 150 of them which are about 75k dukes. completly broken

 

Well, it do take time to make those blades, and 30k of iron in the forge.

Also need(want) steel smithing and the perk to make the blades.

Don't need laggy farming (maybe wood farm for the forges). You sink time

and resources into it, and get paid. Fair and square, if you need those 75k.

I have a tougher time finding something to spend them on.

 

Besides, there is a need for something that can be made, and sold for a decent coin, since not

everyone play with loot respawn on , and not everyone like to go looting. The machete blades

are one thing.

[itsatrap]

Just get rid of the barter skill, it's just another "filler" skill that's only there because that's what Bethesda does... it's going to be much easier to balance without it.

 

It's also an absurdly easy way to gain levels, just collect all the junk and spam the sell button while the XP rolls in. Silly.

[Maynard69]

Just get rid of the barter skill, it's just another "filler" skill that's only there because that's what Bethesda does... it's going to be much easier to balance without it.

 

It's also an absurdly easy way to gain levels, just collect all the junk and spam the sell button while the XP rolls in. Silly.

 

Obviously the skill is there with the underlying purpose of allowing for progression into cheaper prices/higher perk. Which effectively gates the brand new player from getting the best the trader has to offer. Not "because thats what Bethsada did", Hmmph.

 

Also "Just collect all the junk and spam sell button", Half of the game is collecting resources. Resources which the player needs to build/progress/craft.

 

Taking time and resources and traveling to a trader, and selling those resources should indeed come with XP seeming it is among the only 4 ways to efficiently gain XP. (killing, building, gathering, selling)

[Maynard69]

Also, something that works great for selling is to set up a couple chem stations and a few workbenches in a mine in the desert and have them pump out gas/gas barrels nonstop while you mine shale.

 

With a little time investment and decent tools you can have 100s of barrels not to mention a TON of iron to craft machete blades with. (or other stuff)

[Crater Creator]

Just to sum up the patterns I'm observing...

 

There are some things, like car parts or schematics, that are found rarely, and are valuable to the player when needed, but you can still find more than you need. I think it makes sense for these to sell for a high value.

 

There are other things, like duct tape, that you can spam just to sell to the trader. But it does take time & effort, and the quantities you can make are still limited (in the case of duct tape, by how many bones you can acquire), so this seems balanced.

 

There are things like cloth, glass jars, or machete blades which you can farm or smelt in basically unlimited quantities. But they are made from the dirt cheap materials that cover the ground itself, so what can you do (at least until what you buy and sell affects the price)?

 

There are things like old cash (and gold nuggets) which, probably for cultural reasons, just feel like they should be valuable, even if they'd actually just be worth the paper they're printed on in the apocalypse. If the trader didn't take the cash I find, I'd be like, "Come on, man, it's money!" So I like it as is, but that may be irrational.

 

Lastly there are things that are found in limited quantities but aren't rare enough, namely clothes like running shoes. Items like this should probably be adjusted by reducing their frequency instead of their price.

[Zvex]

For now, the only value of hazmat clothes is that they are especially warm. Unless I'm mistaken, their high radiation protection has no actual effect in the game (yet). So their value to the player is more comparable to 'regular' cloth or leather clothing. Until radiation is a real part of the game, I would suggest hazmat clothes be disabled, or otherwise significantly reduced in economic value.

 

You are wrong, with 600 hazmat clothes you can survive the radiation right now, you will take no damage.

 

Also hazmat clothes are really rare so it is ok for them to be expensive ... never sold them in that version, collecting full set

[Tok]

Tyres are everywhere and sell for like 250. I went hunting for tyres on the first few days and managed to buy a purple iron axe and pick.

[Guest]

Trader is currently OP, no way around it. I'm often able to buy a green quality or better sniper rifle around the second week (regular daytime length, survivalist difficulty), even without a lot of focus on getting dukes. It's one of the best late game guns and all I have to do for it is stumble upon one of the many oil refineries, or just sell a handful of low quality pistols/gun parts. Or puffer coats and dusters. Or motor oil. Etc.

 

Barter skill is too easy to buff, common materials & items are valued way too high and the trader inventory often looks like a week five player's weapons stash.

 

I think trader inventory should be more static and prices for late game items way higher. I don't mind them having a blue quality sniper rifle in the first week, but I shouldn't be able to buy it without giving up on other parts of progression. Make me choose between having a sniper rifle or a concrete fort by the time the next horde rolls in.

[Royal Deluxe]

....

Barter skill is too easy to buff, common materials & items are valued way too high and the trader inventory often looks like a week five player's weapons stash.

...

 

i think to gain the necessary XP for barther by 50% would be ok.

For me it could be more. But dont forget that there are many players that like it as it is / want it easyer.

There are players that make a base away from Traders so that they find and/or visit them only very rarely.

[Cadamier]

I think most players would agree that the trader's asking price to buy some of your stuff still needs some balance work. It occurs to me that isolating which prices aren't tuned should be pretty easy, compared to balancing other things.

 

Even though the game's economy isn't dynamic, every player is effectively an arbitrageur, looking through the inventory to buy things with the most value for the lowest price, and sell things with the least value for the highest price. So just by asking what's best to buy or sell to the trader, we can get data on which items may have economic values that are artificially high or low.

 

So... What's the best thing to buy or sell at the trader?

 

I'll go first. To sell, my answer is hazmat clothes. With a barter level in the 50s, I sold an orange quality hazmat shirt to a trader for about 2000 Dukes. Other hazmat clothes sell for similar prices, which I think is tied to military fiber, the material from which they're made.

 

For now, the only value of hazmat clothes is that they are especially warm. Unless I'm mistaken, their high radiation protection has no actual effect in the game (yet). So their value to the player is more comparable to 'regular' cloth or leather clothing. Until radiation is a real part of the game, I would suggest hazmat clothes be disabled, or otherwise significantly reduced in economic value.

 

As for what's best to buy from the trader, value-wise, weapons would be at the top of my list. Specifically, you can often get a pretty darn good melee weapon for 1000 Dukes or less - one that will last you multiple weeks in the early or mid-game before you outgrow it. In other words, if these were more expensive, they'd still be worth buying in this player's judgment.

 

Agree? Disagree? Let's help dial this in.

 

Well, it all depends upon 'where I am at in the game' to a degree, also if I am playing solo or with our team.

 

First day/early: I sell anything not of immediate value or as I am known to do - I'll twitch tonnes of cotton and make it into cloth, or animal hides into leather! [both] Once in a while I or someone will make goldenrod tea, or red tea; but it hardly seems worth it cause all the trouble and time. But with a team - any money generation is GOOD! Since my primary goal is to get a wrench or two! Secondary goal is a 'gun' but only for emergency usage but a mele weapon or bow/crossbow/compound bow. But then again it will also depend upon what the traitor has!!! If he's got a wrench early in game for 2k or 3k - I'm doing my best to get it!!! Cause at that price its usually a +400 durability one. YES! A excellent mele weapon in early game is priceless. Do not forget the value of a +500 durability steel pickaxe or other tool! Since my wife and I prefer sniper rifles thats what we aim for - albeit I'll settle for a hunting rifle!!! I just wish I could put my Bushnell on my hunting rifle... Then its Game OVER MAN!!! Albeit - all guns should be able to have a scope, well except for a shotgun! If I get a wrench early and its decent durability... Almost all of the cars go bye bye! Don't forget all the tires lying around waiting for a new home! But as I said - when you try to sell like I do - the traitor may not buy all of them and only sell them in LOTS if possible. Tires can only be sold one at a time, so I generally only grab about 5 or 6 to sell and I usually end up either stockpiling or throwing away 2 tires. But when wrenching cars if the motor/battery, etc is +550 durability then it has a chance to go into my stockpile! So finding as many traitors as possible is another key!

 

Mid and later - if none of 'us' can use it - bye bye! Yes - hazmat clothing is useless, but that would remove a good bit if revenue from 'early/mid game' play, and that can be crucial to some. I'd say leave it in! A few times so far I have found hazmat clothing and immediately sold them! Saving my life! I don't think I've scrapped any for the military fiber... Cause my wife likes the "Military Armor"

[Kalen]

You are wrong, with 600 hazmat clothes you can survive the radiation right now, you will take no damage.

 

Also hazmat clothes are really rare so it is ok for them to be expensive ... never sold them in that version, collecting full set

 

Wait, what?

 

This is the first I've heard that you can survive in the radiation zone in A16. Looking forward to testing this when I get home.

[Pizzalicious]

when you can sell a stack of mech parts or electrical parts for 25,600 dukes and then buy whatever. Yeah it needs to be reworked. Granted Im max bartering/stash but whats the point. You shouldnt be able to acquire dukes hand over fist then buy winning against the horde.