Why do quest rewards get worse as you go up in tier?

[Old Crow]

Is it just me, or are the quest rewards just getting crummier and crummier from T4 onward? They are very very rarely worth doing a T5 or T6 quest for.

[Krougal]

The rewards are yes. I mean we used to get T3 QL6 weapons and armor, so yeah, it sucks now.

They're still worth doing for XP and dukes if you were gonna hit a POI anyway. Infested especially for all that juicy ammo.

[Old Crow]

2 hours ago, Krougal said:

The rewards are yes. I mean we used to get T3 QL6 weapons and armor, so yeah, it sucks now.

They're still worth doing for XP and dukes if you were gonna hit a POI anyway. Infested especially for all that juicy ammo.

 

Eh, it was something I ran into before they started changing trader quest rewards. Even back in A20 and A21 they got worse and worse.

"Thanks for clearing that infested prison! Here, have a single honey."

[Suxar]

The amount of money increases. And things... Yes, they weren’t really needed before.

[pApA^LeGBa]

That was a needed change. You barely had to craft any of your gear before V1.0 and this game is called "The survival horde crafting game" It´s not Borderlands.

[Mister Forgash]

Trader still needs more nerfs in my opinion. weapons should be significantly more expensive, if not removed from their inventory. 

[theFlu]

8 hours ago, Old Crow said:

"Thanks for clearing that infested prison! Here, have a single honey."

I don't need them to throw piles of steel tools at me, but I'd rather take the mollies from tier 1-2 half the time.

[ElCabong]

The rewards suck. I don't think they get worse as you level up but your opinion of them gets much worse because you need them less and less, even the book box.

 

The stuff you can buy gets better.

[Old Crow]

On 8/21/2024 at 4:21 AM, pApA^LeGBa said:

That was a needed change. You barely had to craft any of your gear before V1.0 and this game is called "The survival horde crafting game" It´s not Borderlands.

 

I'm not looking for Joel to offer me weapons or armor or tools at higher tiers of quest rewards - I'm wondering why the top tier quests rewards aren't worth the effort of doing the quests (single item quantities) vs doing lower tier quests (stacks of items).

[RipClaw]

53 minutes ago, Old Crow said:

I'm wondering why the top tier quests rewards aren't worth the effort of doing the quests (single item quantities) vs doing lower tier quests (stacks of items).

I assume the developers just removed the good rewards from the higher quest tiers instead of reworking the quest rewards in general. The lower levels still look similar to A21.

However, to be fair, when you are at T5 or T6 quests, almost every reward is not really appealing anymore. The only exceptions are books and schematics. These I would consider a good reward.

 

[ElCabong]

This change was made because a lot of people complained about getting a reward that was way above their level. I remember when I could reasonably expect to get a crossbow before it was even possible I could make a hunter's bow. The same goes for my 9 mm. Occasionally the trader would have an SMG as a reward.

 

Now you're probably not going to be given a weapon as a reward that you can use. You might be able to buy one but you are going to be closer to making it by the time you can buy it.

Edited August 22 by ElCabong (see edit history)

[Adam the Waster]

I think later on they should give you weapon parts, extra dukes, bundle of materials, ammo crafting bundles 

[RipClaw]

11 hours ago, ElCabong said:

This change was made because a lot of people complained about getting a reward that was way above their level. I remember when I could reasonably expect to get a crossbow before it was even possible I could make a hunter's bow. The same goes for my 9 mm. Occasionally the trader would have an SMG as a reward.

I often found these complaints ridiculous. For example, someone complained that he had been given a Q6 steel spear and that his entire investment in clubs was completely worthless because he had been given the wrong weapon. And many people didn't understand how the magazine system works at all.

 

And it was also often the case that people spammed quests. I never had the problem that the rewards were above what I could craft because on the one hand I used my points in a very focused way and on the other hand I always held back on quests and did a maximum of 2 quests per day.

 

11 hours ago, Adam the Waster said:

I think later on they should give you weapon parts, extra dukes, bundle of materials, ammo crafting bundles 

I would rather see mods or schematics as rewards.

 

[Lostyouthkhat]

I liked the nerf for tier 1 and tier 2 quests, since 100 bullets for a quests with like 5-10 zombies seemed op. But the rewards for a tier 4 or 5 quests are really underwhelming and need to be buffed imo.

[Suxar]

9 minutes ago, Lostyouthkhat said:

I liked the nerf for tier 1 and tier 2 quests, since 100 bullets for a quests with like 5-10 zombies seemed op. But the rewards for a tier 4 or 5 quests are really underwhelming and need to be buffed imo.

There's a lot of loot dropped during the quest itself.

[meganoth]

39 minutes ago, Suxar said:

There's a lot of loot dropped during the quest itself.

 

Exactly. And now we even have a choice whether to do quests or loot a POI just because it is there. As long as most players still do quests they still think that the quest reward ON TOP is still worth it. Your mileage may vary (which is actually a good sign)

 

The trader nerf was not only necessary because the rewards were often OP, but also because there is an imbalance between SP and co-op MP.

 

The amount of trader reward (each player gets one) versus POI loot (shared among players) is a natural place to balance out between SP and MP. Increasing trader loot buffs co-op, decreasing buffs SP. And in V1 I notice the gap between SP and MP narrowed and my theory is that it is because the trader loot is less than it was.

 

Quests are still a thing players will do because even if you wouldn't get a single bandage as trader reward you still would get xp and dukes and the POI gets reset.

 

Edited August 23 by meganoth (see edit history)

[RipClaw]

11 minutes ago, meganoth said:

Exactly. And now we even have a choice whether to do quests or loot a POI just because it is there. As long as most players still do quests they still think that the quest reward ON TOP is still worth it. Your mileage may vary (which is actually a good sign)

I do quests mainly for two reasons.

 

The first reason is that looting is not really my favorite activity and I lack the motivation to drive around looking for interesting POIs. Through the quests I not only get the location but also have a reason to go there and on the way there I might find other interesting POIs.

 

The second reason is that I find out where other traders and biomes are.

 

The quest reward is just the cherry on top. I may also see good loot differently than others. I judge something rather by its usefulness.

[Suxar]

1 hour ago, meganoth said:

And now we even have a choice whether to do quests or loot a POI just because it is there.

This choice has always been there.
Before the magazines appeared, if you didn't pump up your intellect, the reward for quests was very mediocre, it didn't give anything above level 4. You could only find level 6 items, and you could only create level 5 items by pumping up the corresponding skill. And it didn't send you to other merchants. So there wasn't much point in doing quests.

 

1 hour ago, RipClaw said:

I may also see good loot differently than others.

It depends a lot on the situation. For example, early in the game, food and drink are good loot, and closer to the middle - garbage. If you make a lot of shotgun shells, then plastic is good loot for you, otherwise it is almost useless. And so on.

[8_Hussars]

19 hours ago, Old Crow said:

 

I'm not looking for Joel to offer me weapons or armor or tools at higher tiers of quest rewards - I'm wondering why the top tier quests rewards aren't worth the effort of doing the quests (single item quantities) vs doing lower tier quests (stacks of items).

It's a difficult balancing act.  We as players have many divergent expectations, motivations, and play styles.  IMHO, the loot from the "quest" should be the main reward and this should scale up as POI difficulty goes up (not necessarily just in end loot but in overall POI loot).  The Trader rewards should be minimal.

Trader Quest rewards changed the meta game, for the worse IMHO.  Many players just purely focus on the quest progression.  They rarely if ever, even consider looting a POI without a quest.  Which is maybe a disservice to the game.  I enjoy the game much more looting where, when, and how much to my whim; and not being forced through trader quest progressions.
 

Although not universally popular, introducing deeper RPG style / Barter quests may help.  Need a beaker? Do this, and this, and this, and bring me that, that, and that.  Could be used to remove some of the RNG gating if a player felt it necessary.  Even a bounty approach to quests having lower and higher difficulty quests available (not quest progression levels) may change it up a little.

Having said that, the game does not provide many alternative activities other than building to focus on.  I am cautiously optimistic for "rescue the survivor", "defend the settlement", "Fix this", "Destroy that", and other creative genre and game world appropriate type activities.

[Krougal]

2 hours ago, 8_Hussars said:

Trader Quest rewards changed the meta game, for the worse IMHO.  Many players just purely focus on the quest progression.  They rarely if ever, even consider looting a POI without a quest.  Which is maybe a disservice to the game.  I enjoy the game much more looting where, when, and how much to my whim; and not being forced through trader quest progressions.

It is because they have made it much more efficient to just give in and follow the questing path. Sprinkled with mailbox raiding and maybe looking out for Crackabooks and other bookshelf rich POIs in between. I might still look for a working stiffs if I am behind on forge ahead or mo power for traps & electrical, but otherwise targeting specific POIs for your needs doesn't seem to be much of a thing anymore.

 

I used to get excited when I found a construction site, because it meant easy sand and cement and cobblestone rocks but now almost every POI is loaded with palettes of building materials, I no longer find any reason to go out of my way for them, I will just acquire what I need over the course of the week doing quests. 

 

Although, T1 quests send you to places that satisfy early needs. Small residences and diners/shops tend to have the cooking pot and supplies you need to stay alive that first week. Passin'gas will get you started on vehicles, etc. I mean sure, you can go nerdpole up Dishong Tower on day 1 if you really want to, but the rewards probably aren't worth the effort at this gamestage.

 

[Mister Forgash]

4 hours ago, 8_Hussars said:

It's a difficult balancing act.  We as players have many divergent expectations, motivations, and play styles.

This is so much it. Sure I -think- I know what would be best for the game.. but I'd probably be wrong so I just have to trust the pimps.. But I think trader meta is still too strong right now. We don't know what all kinds of updates are planned, so I'm holding out hope that we'll get a satisfying trader/questing overhaul. it's just so easy to be swimming in money, and to be able to buy high-end goods .. Think.. Crucible, T3 weapons - that stuff you read a lot of mags to make for yourself... I think it would feel better for the game if the trader were selling more weapon parts, raw goods, and mags- probably more expensive than they are now .. but pushing -while also enabling- the player to do more 'make it for yourself' activities.  .. Sounds pretty to me, but this might be someone else's nightmare.

[TWORDY]

On 8/23/2024 at 2:47 PM, 8_Hussars said:

It's a difficult balancing act.  We as players have many divergent expectations, motivations, and play styles.  IMHO, the loot from the "quest" should be the main reward and this should scale up as POI difficulty goes up (not necessarily just in end loot but in overall POI loot).  The Trader rewards should be minimal.

Trader Quest rewards changed the meta game, for the worse IMHO.  Many players just purely focus on the quest progression.  They rarely if ever, even consider looting a POI without a quest.  Which is maybe a disservice to the game.  I enjoy the game much more looting where, when, and how much to my whim; and not being forced through trader quest progressions.
 

Although not universally popular, introducing deeper RPG style / Barter quests may help.  Need a beaker? Do this, and this, and this, and bring me that, that, and that.  Could be used to remove some of the RNG gating if a player felt it necessary.  Even a bounty approach to quests having lower and higher difficulty quests available (not quest progression levels) may change it up a little.

Having said that, the game does not provide many alternative activities other than building to focus on.  I am cautiously optimistic for "rescue the survivor", "defend the settlement", "Fix this", "Destroy that", and other creative genre and game world appropriate type activities.

 

I would much more appreciate some limited interaction(s) with a trader(s) to progress only when it`s necessary or beneficial. Right now, the trader-grind except for digging and building is predominantly beneficial.

 

15 storyline missions baked into the world map might bring and fix a lot to the perception of progression flow.

 

I don`t like the fact that I have to go every single time to a trader to get a mission instead of launching a PDA, a tablet, or simple in-game menus, and then, select and take up a mission. 

 

The game badly needs different type of missions - defend premises, rescue a survivor, bounty hunter in the 4x4, fix and destroy, connect this and that, hunt for a pack of this and that animal here and there, raid the AI base, engage in world random events. Whatever, but there needs to be a higher variety of missions. The game gets dull after overplaying 3 alphas in a row 😅.

 

Bartering is a great idea. Bring X amount of 3 items to get this and that and get what you want with a little bit of dukes and XP.

 

I don't even think rewards are balanced. 5000k dukes is hell a lot of a dime. Helmet Light - I know it is practical but Helmet Light + 4 other random modifications could make more sense. 10 lockpicks... 75 make a decent trade for 2500k dukes.  

 

The grind kills free exploration and peaceful slow-paced moments.

 

Balancing the game is an art, not only hard-data statistics.

 

 

 

 

[Suxar]

23.08.2024 в 16:47 8_Hussars сказал(а):

Нужна мензурка? Сделай это, и это, и это, и принеси мне то, это и это. 

I like this approach. There are really rare things, a measuring cup, acid, weapon parts (there are always not enough pistol parts), solar cells, specific volumes of books (often there is one volume missing from a full series and it does not drop or appear on sale). It would be nice to immediately tell the merchant what I need, and he would select a quest.