How is your experience with the new armor pieces / sets

[Kaffetrinken]

Do they not ruin the game completly? I just did see those stupidly big bonuses those pieces can give. And while I just started to play 1.0,  It looks for me that this will just skyrocket the major problem of 7d2d, that the start is difficult and the endgame a breeze. Or did they do anything to balance the fact that your dmg output can get doubled, u will be nrly undetectable or other stupid perks? I mean comeon, if a full set would give you 15% additional dmg, I would consider it as strong. But those actual numbers are just.... 

Or did I miss sth? Got sth wrong? 

Edited August 19 by Kaffetrinken (see edit history)

[Krougal]

I...I dunno. Considering I thought I was going to hate them, because it was trying to force us into "classes" it isn't bad.

Maybe because the full set bonuses are so anemic, I doubt anyone is choosing off them. My normal set is 4 different pieces, and not even all the same class, but I chose a set of bonuses (bonii? oh god I remember that silly discussion) for my playstyle. 

 

It is possible it has made the game a bit easier, but then there are difficulty levels at least. I have taken to playing on survivalist in this version and while it is rare, I still get my ass handed to me on occasion, although it is mostly a matter of getting overrun and stuck in a bad spot. The almost guaranteed screamer horde while on missions can really complicate your life sometimes.

 

I kinda like it as it is, but If they lowered the numbers a bit, I probably wouldn't be outraged either. I have mixed feelings about them making the set bonuses better as well, on the 1 hand it would be nice, on the other then I would feel like I was missing out by not using a matched set.

[seagas]

My normal everyday armor is all Assassin except for pPeacher gloves. I use other pieces depending o what I doing, mining, mostly mining, the same for farming, wrenching cars and cutting down trees

[Adam the Waster]

1 hour ago, seagas said:

My normal everyday armor is all Assassin except for pPeacher gloves. I use other pieces depending o what I doing, mining, mostly mining, the same for farming, wrenching cars and cutting down trees

I'm stopping myself from wearing the Preacher gloves 

 

 

I wear Athlete gloves, Scavenger or assassin gloves. Horde night I wear Commando 

 

 

I think they should make it more class

 

base like Commando Is for fortitude builds

Biker is for clubs, hammers and shotguns 

Farmer buffs rifles and spears

Etc

 

More mix and match based on theme! Like Preacher buffs hammers and shotguns

Bikers buffs shotguns and knuckles 

Assassin buff knives and pistols 

 

 

And the bonus should be better 

[zztong]

2 hours ago, Kaffetrinken said:

Do they not ruin the game completly? I just did see those stupidly big bonuses those pieces can give. And while I just started to play 1.0,  It looks for me that this will just skyrocket the major problem of 7d2d, that the start is difficult and the endgame a breeze.

 

I wouldn't say they ruined the game. I'm finding the Assassin armor to be a lot of fun with the set bonus. However, I do expect there will be tuning at some point in the future. I wear Assassin normally, but Commando for horde night.

Edited August 19 by zztong (see edit history)

[ElCabong]

Normally I go full assassin.

 

Now, I'm trying the rogue hood for the loot bonus, the rogue gloves because I don't have many lock picks starting out, assassin torso and assassin boots. I'm looking forward to tier 3 when I can finally put a lucky looter mod into the rogue helmet. Right now I have a pair of night vision goggles that are mandatory. I'll switch the gloves out for something else when I can make lock picks. 

 

When I finally get the tier 6 I'll switch to a full assassin set.

 

I'm curious to see how well this works out at the higher levels. The assassin set bonus was nice but not really that game changing until tier 6.

[Old Crow]

I like the idea, but dislike that many of the piece bonuses are too samey. Example, the 3 or 4 headpieces that all give bonuses to bartering, even though half are specifically just for buying, and one for buying specific things... I don't think we really need that.

[theFlu]

They're not all that powerful.. something like Preacher's +60% on gloves sounds like a lot, but it's stacked on top of your +100% (Q6 +50%, Maxed Talents +50%, books +10%), making your 200% into a 260%, effectively giving around 30% increase. The assassin's "+20%" attack speed is actually similar in strength, not an oversight. And the zeds got a HP buff with the patch, so I think the "maxed out end result" remains pretty close to what it was.

 

Some of them are completely broken, though, like the assassin set.. you can just keep pelting a rad over and over again, getting +stealth damage every bolt and the zed not moving at all. I guess it's a fine revenge for all the GM-deaths that TFP has been implementing for a few alphas now, but it isn't exactly fixing stealth play; quite the opposite.

[Krougal]

23 minutes ago, theFlu said:

They're not all that powerful.. something like Preacher's +60% on gloves sounds like a lot, but it's stacked on top of your +100% (Q6 +50%, Maxed Talents +50%, books +10%), making your 200% into a 260%, effectively giving around 30% increase. The assassin's "+20%" attack speed is actually similar in strength, not an oversight. And the zeds got a HP buff with the patch, so I think the "maxed out end result" remains pretty close to what it was.

 

Some of them are completely broken, though, like the assassin set.. you can just keep pelting a rad over and over again, getting +stealth damage every bolt and the zed not moving at all. I guess it's a fine revenge for all the GM-deaths that TFP has been implementing for a few alphas now, but it isn't exactly fixing stealth play; quite the opposite.

Maybe they are overcompensating for the fact that stealth is still useless on horde night.

[OneManStanding]

I felt there was more visual variety in the old system - an assortment of clothes and coats and armour, more suggestive of an apocalypse. Being able to mix them is good, but the full set bonus kind of discourages that. Personally, I hope they add more variety so you can make different variations of the same armour -- for example, I might like armour which looks like a medieval knight.

[zztong]

18 hours ago, Krougal said:

Maybe they are overcompensating for the fact that stealth is still useless on horde night.

 

I see why people say stealth is useless on horde night, though as a stealth player I don't share in the disappointment. All the bullets I loot are available for horde night as I rarely end up using them clearing POIs. I would say my cooking is useless on horde night too, though it is nice having food and drinks to cover for health and stamina issues. I wouldn't say I put all of my eggs in the stealth basket, but I'm weird in that I don't "pick an attribute" and just run it all the way up like it was a character class.

 

I am expecting a correction to happen with the armors and their skills in some later update. It's the nice thing about a prototype approach to development is you get to read and react. I wonder if the Assassin/6 times will back off from nearly instant to be a few seconds.

 

Hunting with Assassin/6 is trivial. Dire wolves just stand there and take my arrows until they die.

[Krougal]

28 minutes ago, zztong said:

 

I see why people say stealth is useless on horde night, though as a stealth player I don't share in the disappointment. All the bullets I loot are available for horde night as I rarely end up using them clearing POIs. I would say my cooking is useless on horde night too, though it is nice having food and drinks to cover for health and stamina issues. I wouldn't say I put all of my eggs in the stealth basket, but I'm weird in that I don't "pick an attribute" and just run it all the way up like it was a character class.

 

I am expecting a correction to happen with the armors and their skills in some later update. It's the nice thing about a prototype approach to development is you get to read and react. I wonder if the Assassin/6 times will back off from nearly instant to be a few seconds.

 

Hunting with Assassin/6 is trivial. Dire wolves just stand there and take my arrows until they die.

Dude, seriously WTF. Every time this comes up you start throwing out these apples to oranges comparisons like you are butt hurt over it.

You could still cook on horde night, in fact, I usually do have the campfires going. Hidden strike and from the shadows might as well be disabled on horde night. You cannot hide. You do not do extra damage. It does not work during horde night. It doesn't need to be defended or argued.

That doesn't invalidate stealth or make stealth useless in general, it is powerful enough the other 6 days a week.

Edited August 20 by Krougal (see edit history)

[theFlu]

3 hours ago, zztong said:

It's the nice thing about a prototype approach to development is you get to read and react.

Technically, ye, but "to react" here would be to design an actual stealth gameplay. They have plenty of elements to one, but atm it's a binary between "the whole trigger room knows exactly where you are whatever you do" and "I can chisel down this rad tourist and his 3 friends with my stone axe, without any of them ever even turning towards me".

 

The biggest hurdle is the trigger mechanic, I guess; requiring zeds to be able to beeline to you without actual knowledge of you. Once you figure out that you can reveal yourself to the zeds temporarily to get them to drop agro, it's a straight up hack-fest. I guess blinking your headlight at the things running at you could be called a mechanic, but I'm not sure how sneaky it feels though... it does have a flashbang feel to it when it works well, but it's just a little too meta .. and obviously not intended.

[OldManBrian]

Do dyes work on the new armors?  I've tried a few and they only seem to effect the icon but not the actual armor.  I'd say overall though I like the look of the new armors, but I miss the mix n match of the old system with clothes.  Personally I would have added a class mod slot and have these effects be a special type of class mod that only fits in that one slot.  That way you can mix and match a bit more.  I never like armor systems that have bonuses directly tied to the look of them, makes most players all look the same because everyone ends up picking the best bonuses.

Not a fan of swapping armors out for different tasks either.  (mining outfit, barter outfit, etc) It just feels super gamey.

[pApA^LeGBa]

OP af and surely nerfs are coming. So i don´t get attached to anything. And as usual they will nerf it into oblivion, community will cry out loud and it will be buffed a bit again.

 

Maybe if TFP nerfs something they should set the new balance and then instantly make it 20% less nerfed. Would save a lot of time and work.

[zztong]

15 hours ago, Krougal said:

Dude, seriously WTF. Every time this comes up you start throwing out these apples to oranges comparisons like you are butt hurt over it.

 

I'm sorry my comments drew this reaction. My comment is innocent. I often forget where I have said things before and to whom they were said. Obviously, I disagree that it is an apples to oranges comparison. Even if it were apples to oranges, it would still be a fruit to fruit comparison.

Edited August 21 by zztong (see edit history)

[Krougal]

1 hour ago, zztong said:

 

I'm sorry my comments drew this reaction. My comment is innocent. I often forget where I have said things before and to whom they were said. Obviously, I disagree that it is an apples to oranges comparison. Even if it were apples to oranges, it would still be a fruit to fruit comparison.

Ok, maybe my response sounds harsher than I meant it to be. I'm rough and abrasive I know, but I'm usually half-joking too and that doesn't come across the internet so well. I certainly don't bear any ill will against you. I reckon by the Wile E. avatar you are another old codger like me. You do come off as the white knight of the agility tree any time it comes up, but that's just an observation.

 

I don't see how you can defend that position though, the related skills do not work on horde night. It isn't my opinion, it is a fact. Hiding does not work, unless they made changes to this version I am unaware of. While it isn't going to end the horde any faster, if your food was low and you forgot to prepare any, you can still cook a meal during horde night. The cooking skill still works.

 

If we want to be rigid about it, we could say anything not a combat related skill is worthless on horde night. From the shadows and hidden strike are most definitely combat related skills, and yet there is no opportunity to use them on horde night, rendering them useless.

Edited August 21 by Krougal (see edit history)

[davdes]

Honestly, it feels now cheap. From 10 apparel/armors in total to wear in the alphas to now 4 in the official, it feels like there's not much stuff to be able to loot and try to find and get as reward anymore. It just halved the possibilities and excitement of you hoping to find some armor pieces you were lacking because of the greater variety previously. The same with the clothes. Now all clothes gone. Bye bye. Frankly, they should have AT LEAST let the leg armor be there, since now there are only helm, gloves, chest and boots. Yeah yeah the new sets and their bonuses, but c'mon, there's only 4 pièces now to get and you're done with it. Cheap move guys seriously, I'm opening my character menu and it just looks empty and void, the richness of before is gone...!

Edited August 21 by davdes (see edit history)

[zztong]

25 minutes ago, Krougal said:

Ok, maybe my response sounds harsher than I meant it to be. I'm rough and abrasive I know, but I'm usually half-joking too and that doesn't come across the internet so well. I certainly don't bear any ill will against you. I reckon by the Wile E. avatar you are another old codger like me. You do come off as the white knight of the agility tree any time it comes up, but that's just an observation.

 

It's cool. I'm not sure how I come across as a defender of the AGL tree and I don't emphasize any tree when I play. I go with a Jack-of-all-Trades build. And I suspect that's the part of my perspective that I think as important. I don't invest in using knives, for instance.

 

That is, stealth is an important overall options and to me the horde night is part of overall play. Most perks have no direct role in doing damage on horde night, but all contribute indirectly to combat effectiveness. Indeed, it was a recent observation of mine during play that I had lots of ammo for horde night because I wasn't using any clearing POIs. Unlike A21, I didn't have to ration my ammo, and the increased effectiveness of stealth is directly responsible for that.

 

It is fact that I will not get a stealth damage bonus during a horde night. It is fact I will not get a barter bonus during a horde night. It is fact I won't likely enjoy being able to track rabbits during horde night. That's obvious, so why does it matter to point this out? Is it an attempt to argue stealth should have an effect during horde night? If so, why not say so?

 

I regret we're derailing the conversation about armor. So... perhaps an interesting armor effect would be to give a chance for stealth damage during a horde night?

[theFlu]

23 minutes ago, zztong said:

So... perhaps an interesting armor effect would be to give a chance for stealth damage during a horde night?

Instead of full set losing the zeds instantly, have it give a random chance for any shots/(agi-tree-damage-types?) being treated as stealth hits (whether the chance is 20% or 80%, dunno). I'd take it.

[zztong]

14 minutes ago, theFlu said:

Instead of full set losing the zeds instantly, have it give a random chance for any shots/(agi-tree-damage-types?) being treated as stealth hits (whether the chance is 20% or 80%, dunno). I'd take it.

 

Since we're spit-balling, perhaps another would be that shots in the back of a zombie do more damage if the attack is from one of the weapons that gets an extra bonus from stealth. I don't recall the entire list, but knives, bows, crossbows, etc.

[theFlu]

1 hour ago, zztong said:

shots in the back of a zombie do more damage

I don't hate the idea; basic backstab damage. On one hand it'd be neat with zeds hiding their heads in POIs, but then, it would partially negate all the meticulous head-hiding that the level designers enjoy doing... 😛 

 

For horde nights, well, it'd encourage some weird base designs - depending a little on how the mechanic would actually work. But you'd try to get zombies breaking things "somewhere else" to be shot in the back. Not exactly hard to achieve, but everyone else wants em face-first at the kill zone. For a co-op you'll be the odd one out, standing in a sniper perch somewhere; for single player you'll be designing a convoluted path, or a dropper for DestroyArea -mode and a suitable execution wall to gather the aggravatees.

[Riamus]

17 hours ago, OldManBrian said:

Do dyes work on the new armors?  I've tried a few and they only seem to effect the icon but not the actual armor.  I'd say overall though I like the look of the new armors, but I miss the mix n match of the old system with clothes.  Personally I would have added a class mod slot and have these effects be a special type of class mod that only fits in that one slot.  That way you can mix and match a bit more.  I never like armor systems that have bonuses directly tied to the look of them, makes most players all look the same because everyone ends up picking the best bonuses.

Not a fan of swapping armors out for different tasks either.  (mining outfit, barter outfit, etc) It just feels super gamey.

Not yet.  They said they plan to make them work, but they don't currently.

 

I don't bother with swapping armor for stuff because it is gamey and I don't like that.  So I just don't do it.  I'll do something like pull a 44 to get a discount, but I'm not changing my armor just because I'm harvesting crops or mining or scrapping.

[zztong]

2 hours ago, theFlu said:

I don't hate the idea; basic backstab damage. On one hand it'd be neat with zeds hiding their heads in POIs, but then, it would partially negate all the meticulous head-hiding that the level designers enjoy doing... 😛 

 

For horde nights, well, it'd encourage some weird base designs

 

I was just thinking of horde night. Sorry I wasn't clear.

 

Yes, you might see some changes to horde base possibilities. You kind of see it now with stairs up to the player level prior to a U-turn leading the Zeds straight back at you. You might see the archers in a place lined up with the stairs.

[theFlu]

19 minutes ago, zztong said:

I was just thinking of <X>

Yeh, no worries, simple ideas are like that. That's probably the default for everyone; at least for me thinking of side-effects and implications still takes conscious effort. But other than sleeper design, that idea doesn't seem to hurt much in the general gameplay... in a simple form, maybe split "Hidden Strike" damage into two parts, stealth damage and backstab damage, giving a mild damage buff to sleeper backstabs while leaving sleeper headshots as they are, or even a little weaker. Depends of course if "backstab" is 1) any hit from direction "behind", 2) an actual "fleshy back hitbox" separate from the head hitbox or 3) something else...