Needed nerf

[ryoendymon]

So, having been playing 7 days for a while now in the release, I notice 2 severe nerfs that are needed. 

1, The stun baton is far too OP.  seriously, my family have all tried it, and the stun baton is just rediculously overpowered, not even counting when you get the books to  further its absurdity, or the candy to boost its shock radius.  I started a fresh world, and found a "bear den" POI on like day 4, I had a level 2 stun baton (Yes I got it legit, will explain in point 2)  I destroyed the place, including taking the zombie bear on face to face in melee.  I believe this OPness is a result of the fact t hat there's only 2 tier of weapon in the int category, pipe baton and stun.  I basically was able to keep the zombie bear stunned the entire time, so was just able to keep on pounding. 

2, Daring Adventurer, (I think is the perk) The perk improves what the trader has in his inventory, and even just the ONE point you can put in without investing in int is enough for you to start seeing some seriouly powerful stuff, such as a level 2 stun baton on day 4 (the first trader restock day) mentioned above.  The traders themselves are already a fairly powerful resource as it is, but with even just one point in Daring adventurer, it gets kinda nuts. Before the end of week 1, thanks soley to this perk, when my family of 3 plays together, we are outfitted pretty heavily. Among our group we will have 1 set of steel tools, each of us having  a third tier weapon (tiers being like, pipe rifle, hunting rifle, lever rifle, sniper rifle)   We have tested this out in 3 separate worlds, to ensure it wasn't just a lucky break.  But it was no fluke, in all 3 worlds the taking of daring adventurer would catapult our progress.  Typical stats i use on a 3 person co-op world, 100% exp, 50% loot abundance.

[Krougal]

When you get a pair of turrets, you just sit back and do nothing, then int is really OP.

Believe it or not, this is the nerfed DA. You should have seen it before.

 

 

[ryoendymon]

17 minutes ago, Krougal said:

When you get a pair of turrets, you just sit back and do nothing, then int is really OP.

Believe it or not, this is the nerfed DA. You should have seen it before.

 

 

Damn....  Yeah I never did turrets because that felt just cheesy, but seriously, on our bigger game, sometimes i'll let screamers just continue to scream, calling the ferals and radiated all they want, and my stun baton just keeps me good. 

I tried it with the candy as well, it was like "I AM MIGHTY THOR"

[ElCabong]

why the hell can't they carry a a level two 9 mm that I want instead of an overpowered piece of gear that I don't want? It's always a hunter's rifle, overpowered, AK-47, overpowered, haven't seen a stun baton but it's overpowered too.  Sometimes they will have a baseball bat, I'll buy that. Trader Bob had a quality 5 steel club, bought that too. Now that was overpowered and me with no points in clubs.

 

But they've never had an underpowered 9 mm. I detect some weapon prejudice here.

Edited August 18 by ElCabong (see edit history)

[Javabean867]

Nothing needs nerfed.  Not op.

 

Stop suggesting nerfs in pve games

Edited August 18 by Javabean867
Typos, from stupid auto correct (see edit history)

[Krougal]

1 hour ago, ElCabong said:

why the hell can't they carry a a level two 9 mm that I want instead of an overpowered piece of gear that I don't want? It's always a hunter's rifle, overpowered, AK-47, overpowered, haven't seen a stun baton but it's overpowered too.  Sometimes they will have a baseball bat, I'll buy that. Trader Bob had a quality 5 steel club, bought that too. Now that was overpowered and me with no points in clubs.

 

But they've never had an underpowered 9 mm. I detect some weapon prejudice here.

The toilet gun is still a thing. Keep looking!

[ElCabong]

53 minutes ago, Krougal said:

The toilet gun is still a thing. Keep looking!

Yep, That's where I find them. Tells you what they think  of 9mm's, doesn't it?

[TWORDY]

2 hours ago, ryoendymon said:

1, The stun baton is far too OP.  seriously, my family have all tried it, and the stun baton is just rediculously overpowered, not even counting when you get the books to  further its absurdity, or the candy to boost its shock radius.  I started a fresh world, and found a "bear den" POI on like day 4, I had a level 2 stun baton (Yes I got it legit, will explain in point 2)  I destroyed the place, including taking the zombie bear on face to face in melee.  I believe this OPness is a result of the fact t hat there's only 2 tier of weapon in the int category, pipe baton and stun.  I basically was able to keep the zombie bear stunned the entire time, so was just able to keep on pounding. 
 

 

Intelligence doesn`t have currently any dedicated range weapon, so naturally, Stun Baton got a pretty buffy buff. What difficulty are You playing on? I would love to have a flame thrower, plasma welding gun, or gauss rifle in Intelligence. Whatever, to somehow catch up with other specializations. As long as You are playing solo, Adventurer seems fine. In co-op or Multiplayer things are not scaling up as some might expect. It is ridiculous to me that armor as a cap may grant XP bonuses, also Intelligence allows crafting XP potions. I believe this should be removed, in other words, the Intelligence specialization progresses way too fast. Also, XP goggles mod should have never granted more 5% to XP bonuses. When someone stacks up all XP boosts in Intelligence bonuses and goes next with Strength later... such players are waaaaaaay ahead of the competition.

 

2 hours ago, ryoendymon said:

2, Daring Adventurer, (I think is the perk) The perk improves what the trader has in his inventory, and even just the ONE point you can put in without investing in int is enough for you to start seeing some seriouly powerful stuff, such as a level 2 stun baton on day 4 (the first trader restock day) mentioned above.  The traders themselves are already a fairly powerful resource as it is, but with even just one point in Daring adventurer, it gets kinda nuts. Before the end of week 1, thanks soley to this perk, when my family of 3 plays together, we are outfitted pretty heavily. Among our group we will have 1 set of steel tools, each of us having  a third tier weapon (tiers being like, pipe rifle, hunting rifle, lever rifle, sniper rifle)   We have tested this out in 3 separate worlds, to ensure it wasn't just a lucky break.  But it was no fluke, in all 3 worlds the taking of daring adventurer would catapult our progress.  Typical stats i use on a 3 person co-op world, 100% exp, 50% loot abundance.

 

I agree that some more options should be viable with Trader, but 2x amount of rewards after accomplishing a mission is a clear overkill. Players should rather have 3x more items to choose from, and let`s say gain 25% amount of the items, 1 level higher quality items, 25% more dukes but not 2x items for the taking ever!

 

I don`t want to say that Intelligence is fundamentally broken, but I would love to see some fundamental changes.

[ryoendymon]

Int should have a ranged weapon like a stun gun or something.  But the baton, way too OP.

1 hour ago, Javabean867 said:

Nothing needs nerfed.  Not op.

 

Stop suggesting nerfs in pve games

It's a survival game.  These things ARE OP.

The game is supposed to be a survival game, right now, these things pump you as a player up to a point of far too much power, it takes away the danger aspect of a survival game. 

Let's look at the stun baton.  

Firstly it's a club, even if it doesn't get the club stats.  But it does have its own set of things to give it all the club abilities.  

So it has the increased chance for dismemberment, heavy head damage, reduce its stam cost, another talent for buffing its attack speed. 

But the baton also has the built in stun ability....start whacking and the enemy gets stunned while you keep whacking, which recharges it and restuns them. 

The stun is an AOE, albeit small (unless you add the candy that makes it span like 2 blocks)

Then you add in the medicine tree, you probably didn't read the last 2 talents in the medicine tree which adds even more to the stun baton giving it bonus chances to instakill

So here we have the equivalant of a club with all its boosts, plus the stun ability....on an AOE...plus its instakill abilities.....and we haven't even gone into any of the other addons. 

Candy spreads that AOE stun to about 2 blocks, on a horde night it's kinda funny watching half the blood moon horde just standing there doing nothing.....if you have the repulser mod it sends them flying about 10-15 blocks away to just lay there twitching. If you're reading their other books you get additional crap like a 25% on normal, 50% on heavy attack chance to INSTANT charge it, so add a coffee, and you're just constantly power attacking, 

Hit hit zap hit zap hit hit zap hit zap....

Doesn't matter how much HP the enemy has, or how many there are, they will all just be AOE stunned.

Look if you want to play this game on easy mode, that's fine, but a survival game needs balance to ensure that you aren't just god wandering the hordes. 

[Riamus]

3 hours ago, ryoendymon said:

2, Daring Adventurer, (I think is the perk) The perk improves what the trader has in his inventory, and even just the ONE point you can put in without investing in int is enough for you to start seeing some seriouly powerful stuff, such as a level 2 stun baton on day 4 (the first trader restock day) mentioned above.  The traders themselves are already a fairly powerful resource as it is, but with even just one point in Daring adventurer, it gets kinda nuts. Before the end of week 1, thanks soley to this perk, when my family of 3 plays together, we are outfitted pretty heavily. Among our group we will have 1 set of steel tools, each of us having  a third tier weapon (tiers being like, pipe rifle, hunting rifle, lever rifle, sniper rifle)   We have tested this out in 3 separate worlds, to ensure it wasn't just a lucky break.  But it was no fluke, in all 3 worlds the taking of daring adventurer would catapult our progress.  Typical stats i use on a 3 person co-op world, 100% exp, 50% loot abundance.

You don't even need Daring Adventurer for that.  In fact, it might not really be making as much difference as you think.  Even without it, the traders offer high quality and tier items right from day 1.  It all depends on the luck of the choices for items and you can get a selection without good stuff, but you can also get a selection with very good stuff.  DA just increases the chances of getting better stuff, but you can get that stuff without it just fine.  Traders have already received some balancing but they need more.  The available items at the trader should be tied to your gamestage or lootstage or something.  No buying crucibles on day 1, no buying tier 3 weapons on day 1, no buying even tier 0/1 Q5 weapons on day 1.

 

Personally, I only buy a few things from traders.  I don't buy armor at all.  I only rarely buy weapons, and that is only if I'm just having really bad luck for an extended number of days and can't find or craft a given weapon even though I am far enough along that I would normally have that weapon.  For example, if I'm far enough along to get all tier 3/Q6 weapons I use except one, like say a sniper rifle, and am just having horrible luck finding those magazines, I might buy a Q5 sniper if I see one because it isn't early for my level and is only because I'm having bad RNG.  But that happens infrequently.  In most games, I never buy any weapons.  I basically only buy dew collector mods and solar banks and solar cells from traders.  Occasionally, if I'm short only a couple magazines for something I want to craft, I'll buy those.  But I normally am not buying magazines.  I don't buy food or drink unless I'm desperate, which is rare.  In short, I just don't really use traders for anything other than selling excess items and doing quests.  I don't need their stuff and don't want the best stuff early game.

[Krougal]

You still need to invest a lot of points for the perks to get all that. And then you have to find and buy the candy, and pretty much all the weapons have a consumable that gives a boost. Yeah, it is probably still a little op, I am crushing it on survivalist right now with the baton and I don't have the repulsor mod yet. 

 

[Syphon583]

Personally, I feel like the stun baton is on par with knives. They're just flashier (pun intended).

 

Seriously, though, knives become incredibly powerful pretty early on. And you know what? I don't want them to change a thing. It's fun watching zeds get decapitated. Same with the stun batons. They don't deal a lot of damage, rather their strength lies with the crowd control which most other melee weapons don't have. The stun baton is just fun to use, but if I play on higher difficulties, I only use it for crowd control since it takes too many hits for my tastes to actually kill them.

[Javabean867]

On 8/18/2024 at 2:17 PM, ryoendymon said:

Int should have a ranged weapon like a stun gun or something.  But the baton, way too OP.

It's a survival game.  These things ARE OP.

The game is supposed to be a survival game, right now, these things pump you as a player up to a point of far too much power, it takes away the danger aspect of a survival game. 

Let's look at the stun baton.  

Firstly it's a club, even if it doesn't get the club stats.  But it does have its own set of things to give it all the club abilities.  

So it has the increased chance for dismemberment, heavy head damage, reduce its stam cost, another talent for buffing its attack speed. 

But the baton also has the built in stun ability....start whacking and the enemy gets stunned while you keep whacking, which recharges it and restuns them. 

The stun is an AOE, albeit small (unless you add the candy that makes it span like 2 blocks)

Then you add in the medicine tree, you probably didn't read the last 2 talents in the medicine tree which adds even more to the stun baton giving it bonus chances to instakill

So here we have the equivalant of a club with all its boosts, plus the stun ability....on an AOE...plus its instakill abilities.....and we haven't even gone into any of the other addons. 

Candy spreads that AOE stun to about 2 blocks, on a horde night it's kinda funny watching half the blood moon horde just standing there doing nothing.....if you have the repulser mod it sends them flying about 10-15 blocks away to just lay there twitching. If you're reading their other books you get additional crap like a 25% on normal, 50% on heavy attack chance to INSTANT charge it, so add a coffee, and you're just constantly power attacking, 

Hit hit zap hit zap hit hit zap hit zap....

Doesn't matter how much HP the enemy has, or how many there are, they will all just be AOE stunned.

Look if you want to play this game on easy mode, that's fine, but a survival game needs balance to ensure that you aren't just god wandering the hordes. 

So wait, you are suggesting that after putting a ton of investment into a weapon tree, finding all of the books, and putting a lot of point into medicine, buying a specific candy, that you'll end up with a weapon that is not as good as any other weapon that requires about half the perk points to max out????  Crazy....

To each their own i guess.  if you think it is op, then don't put all of those points into the batons, medicine and buying the candy, and using the 1 specific stun baton mod.  you could show self restraint seeing it is so op...

Or realize that not everyone shares our opinion, and shouldn't suffer a nerf because you want it.  Or even better yet.  learn to mod, and make the changes you want to see for your own game.

[Adam the Waster]

I think more special zombies and stronger zombies without compete that once they get added of course cuz RADS are dangerous but not as dangerous as they should be

[OneManStanding]

As far as I recall, the Baton has never been useful to me - less powerful than a club with a random chance to shock a zombie. I've never gotten back into using it, just repair the ones I find and sell any parts. But I'll give it a check and see if it's changed.

 

Traders, I agree, are still just too good. It might hurt to buy it at the time, but other than armour and one AK, I've always gotten the offer of better tools and guns from the traders before I was ready to make them. Was just learning to make compound longbows and it offered me a level 3 compound crossbow - could not pass it up. I have a box full of parts and all I've ended out needing to do is make the level 6 stuff, when obviously crafting it should be more inline with the gameplay.

[Krougal]

1 hour ago, Javabean867 said:

So wait, you are suggesting that after putting a ton of investment into a weapon tree, finding all of the books, and putting a lot of point into medicine, buying a specific candy, that you'll end up with a weapon that is not as good as any other weapon that requires about half the perk points to max out????  Crazy....

To each their own i guess.  if you think it is op, then don't put all of those points into the batons, medicine and buying the candy, and using the 1 specific stun baton mod.  you could show self restraint seeing it is so op...

Or realize that not everyone shares our opinion, and shouldn't suffer a nerf because you want it.  Or even better yet.  learn to mod, and make the changes you want to see for your own game.

Yeah, I agree INT tree may be a little OP, but I like it the way it is.

It is a lot of investment into the baton for all that, and it still pales in comparison to the pair of QL6 turrets with 4 mods each which you'll get by the end.

Worth every bit of the 240 forged steel each.

[Rotor]

While we are at it NERF the trader.

 

Long live the water jars!

[Javabean867]

3 hours ago, Krougal said:

Yeah, I agree INT tree may be a little OP, but I like it the way it is.

It is a lot of investment into the baton for all that, and it still pales in comparison to the pair of QL6 turrets with 4 mods each which you'll get by the end.

Worth every bit of the 240 forged steel each.

It's like any stat in the game, you put a bunch of perks into a tree, and you'll feel very powerful.

 

Like with Agility and stealth, or strength and sledgehammers.   Right now I'm playing a strength build, points into heavy armor, built up endurance to get 3 into pain tolerance(not needed honestly) and I feel like a walking tank.

[Krougal]

49 minutes ago, Javabean867 said:

It's like any stat in the game, you put a bunch of perks into a tree, and you'll feel very powerful.

 

Like with Agility and stealth, or strength and sledgehammers.   Right now I'm playing a strength build, points into heavy armor, built up endurance to get 3 into pain tolerance(not needed honestly) and I feel like a walking tank.

Yeah, that is true.

Int just has a lot going for it and it ramps up very fast. Vehicles sooner mean you can do more in less time. Get more out of quests. Get more out of buying and selling. Crafting makes for a stronger horde base faster. Physician. Lockpicking. All very powerful abilities.

 

The speed-running guide that popped up on Steam recently is no joke. I am doing T5 quests on day 16. Now granted, it is an extreme way to play, and it is pretty grueling, especially on higher difficulty. The hardest thing for me is to leave the loot and go go go, because it is about time efficiency. I wouldn't want to play this way all the time, but it has been a great learning experience and a real eye opener.

 

I don't think it should be nerfed either, if people want to play this way, fine. Nerfing it is going to punish the people who don't more than the people who do. People who want to game a system are always going to find ways to game a system.

[Old Crow]

Stun Baton is fine. It's finally good.

[RipClaw]

16 hours ago, Rotor said:

While we are at it NERF the trader.

NERF him even more ?

 

The poor guy already has hardly anything useful left to sell. Do you want to ruin him completely?

I am his only customer. And if I don't buy anything he will file for bankruptcy sooner or later.

 

Edited August 20 by RipClaw (see edit history)

[seagas]

Nothing is making you use the trader or use tier 6 weapons or tools or max out any of the trees. Why penalize others for what you perceive as overpowered. This 70 year old can use every little buff I can use. I've been playing this since A16 and I find each version to be overall better than the previous versions. Yes there are somethings I don't like, but overall, I think they have done a great job balancing the game and keeping it fun the majority of players. There are plenty of mods out there to make the game harder or modify it to your play style. Leave the vanilla version to what the developers have envisioned.   

[warmer]

You will always be limited by your stamina, so stun lock or not, you can't keep that up forever

[Rotor]

6 hours ago, RipClaw said:

NERF him even more ?

 

Once you go NERF you never go back,  might as well make them a goat weed farmer.

 

Really if they were gone I would miss NOT them. 

 

Although I may be having a daily quarrel with RNGeezus /insert angelic.wav

Edited August 20 by Rotor (see edit history)

[TWORDY]

Honestly, I would rather play with OP class rather than under-powered one. Baton has to stay strong. No range weapon so players must fry zeds with crowd-control melee.