Is ignoring game content the only option?

[Slingblade2040]

30 minutes ago, warmer said:

Your opinion is they break game balance. You may have established that, I didn't. I personally think this is the most fun version of the game I have played and I started at A6. If you don't like the direction, load up A20.

 

It is impossible to please everyone all the time, so you aim for the middle. Some people will love it, and you can't just listen to those that hate it. Those that do are always the vocal minority.

 

There will never be a perfect version that suits everyone because there will always be something you loved from an old Alpha. I personally would wait 2x as long for a map with caves. That isn't happening unless I mod it. Do I @%$# and moan, or do I use my agency and power to please myself? Modding is so easy now. Drop in a modlet done. It will take you less time than writing your last post

 

People with agency who complain when they have the power to fix it themselves vs. waiting months for a potential bug fix crack me up.

Except most new players or casuals either don't mod the game or know how to mod it. 

 

This isn't some playing the game at 300% loot or double dipping PoIs. These are default settings which most casual or new players play at. This is playing the game as intended on default settings by using the trader and questing and that alone is enough to massively throw off the crafting and newly implemented learn by looting system with magazines.

 

The solution can't be telling new or casual players hey just mod the game, edit xmls, ignore traders or severely limit your questing down to 1 per day especially if you are starting out because most are going to tell you how ridiculous that sounds and why the devs aren't trying to fix such a massive issue.

 

Would be nice to know exactly what kind of impact the traders will keep having on this game because it seems each alpha they become more and more essential and crafting takes more and more of a backseat outside of making blocks to build a base. Because even traps can easily be obtained from bundles you get in the infested crates along with ridiculous amounts of ammo.

[Scyris]

13 minutes ago, Fox said:

Same here. I play test each new release just so I can understand and know what all the changes are, and like you, been spending less time with each new release as it feels like it just keeps getting worse. Hopefully, the mods can save the game.

Huh?

A20 wasn't that much better either... 1 step forward, 2 steps back with EVERY update that's been released in the last several years. My fav version is still A10.4 even though it lacks all the flashy new stuff that I do like in these newer versions. Unfortunately, I played that version into the ground and need a long break from it.

 

Seems to me like the ones who don't like the way things are right now in this particular thread are a majority, not a minority. If you can't listen to those that hate it, then why are you here talking to those that hate it?

 

Modding is only easy for those who know what they're doing. I for one don't have the patience to learn that stuff anymore because every game seems to have their own language and I'm just done with learning that stuff now. I have far too many games in my steam library and I'm definitely not going to learn how to mod each one just so I can enjoy all of them.

 

Mods can save the game, the mods is the only reason I even still bother with this trainwreck. I've already given up on a21 vanilla and am just wating for the overhaul mods like darkness falls, undead legacy, apocalpyse now to be updated for a21. They generally remove most of the stupid decisions TFP makes and adds a ton of new actual content, something the vanilla game hasn't really gotten in years. Sorry but, a few new buildings to explore, and prettier graphics do not count as content in my eyes. We need higher tier items, and zombies, but as i've been told, its not going to happen so, only thing to do is to mod to make the game worth playing again. Each Alpha the game goes more and more downhill it started with a17, and has just gone down the crapper since. More and more Sandbox elements keep being removed, I suspect the game is basically going to end up nothing more than a one way train ride as they tend to try to force everyone to play a certain way instead of embracing the sandbox nature of this sort of game to let them do their own thing. Its a shame as this used to be one of myt fave games and now a days? I don't really care about the base game much as the base game is pretty much dead and never going anywhere as it hasn't gone anywhere in years. I just wait for mods now, and play those as they make the game actually fun.

9 minutes ago, Slingblade2040 said:

Except most new players or casuals either don't mod the game or know how to mod it. 

 

This isn't some playing the game at 300% loot or double dipping PoIs. These are default settings which most casual or new players play at. This is playing the game as intended on default settings by using the trader and questing and that alone is enough to massively throw off the crafting and newly implemented learn by looting system with magazines.

 

The solution can't be telling new or casual players hey just mod the game, edit xmls, ignore traders or severely limit your questing down to 1 per day especially if you are starting out because most are going to tell you how ridiculous that sounds and why the devs aren't trying to fix such a massive issue.

 

Would be nice to know exactly what kind of impact the traders will keep having on this game because it seems each alpha they become more and more essential and crafting takes more and more of a backseat outside of making blocks to build a base. Because even traps can easily be obtained from bundles you get in the infested crates along with ridiculous amounts of ammo.

 

It shouldn't be the solution but everytime you complain about the vanilla gameplay a moderator or someone usually tells you "well mod it then", as in they have no interest in fixing the issues people have. The devs do copy alot of mod features into the game, like disappearing bird nest/garbage bags? yeah mods have done that for years, but sadly they never seem to copy the good stuff: more enemies, more items, higher tiers of things etc.

 

As to why the game keeps getting more players each alpha its simple: alot of casuals will look at the graphics of a game and thats a major influence on whether they bother or not, and TFP knows this. Basically they see the pretty graphics and try it out, its the easy casual player hook line and sinker because it works. A21 looks fantastic for this sort of game, I just wish the other teams other than the Art team would put in as much effort. Art team is great, the game looks amazing in a21 as I've said, but we need the other teams now to pick up the slack as I doubt your going to be able to push the graphics much farther.

Edited July 20, 2023 by Scyris (see edit history)

[Fox]

25 minutes ago, Scyris said:

A21 looks fantastic for this sort of game, I just wish the other teams other than the Art team would put in as much effort. Art team is great, the game looks amazing in a21 as I've said, but we need the other teams now to pick up the slack as I doubt your going to be able to push the graphics much farther.

I wouldn't go that far. I play the game on max graphics settings. At certain times of the day when the light hits the trees and tall grass... it reminds me of games back in the late 90s early 2000s. There's also the bushes which pop out with the LOD feature and look like an out of place single color layout of an image from a distance. There's also still some remaining low textured stuff that stands out like a sore thumb. But aside from that, ya, the game does look good overall.

Edited July 20, 2023 by Fox (see edit history)

[Riamus]

It is interesting how often people who admit that they've been playing this for years complain about how it is for new players and suggest that the reasons they want things a certain way is the same reason a new player would.  A new player doesn't know how things were different in older alphas and will play the game without that knowledge.  They will like it or not like it based solely on the version they start with and not based on what used to be in the game or how the game used to function.  Veteran players are the ones who complain about changes from past alphas, not new players. 

 

Everyone plays the game they way they want to.  It's a benefit of a sandbox type game as well as a detriment.  If someone hates crafting, then they don't care about whether or not crafting is balanced... at least, not unless crafting is superior to whatever they are doing.  If someone hates questing, they don't care about questing being balanced unless it is superior to whatever they are doing, etc.  Now, we see a lot of posts complaining that quest rewards are not balanced and where are the complaints coming from?  People who don't like questing.  Those who do like questing may agree that more balancing is needed but they aren't the ones complaining.  The ones who are complaining are those who don't want to quest and don't want anyone with another play style to have better progression than them.  It's the same with traders in general.  Those who don't want to use traders complain about traders, not because there are traders but because the game is easier if you use traders than if you don't.  It isn't that traders affect them if they aren't even using them but that they want their play style to be superior to other play styles or at least equal.  The thing is, different play styles being easier or more difficult is not a bad thing.  A lot of people who choose to play a more difficult play style choose to do so because it is more difficult.  If you make it easier for them, they won't like that either.  And there's no reason why anyone should ask that the game be made more difficult for other people when it won't even affect their own game.

 

There will never be perfect balance between play styles.  Some are going to be harder than others.  Some are going to progress more slowly than others.  And because this is early access and not complete, changes made can improve or worsen some play styles and even make some play styles no longer possible.  That's just how it is going to be.  It's why there are mods.

 

Even so, more balancing is needed and there is little doubt they will continue balancing things through gold.  It's much better to offer suggestions for balancing rather than complain about things being changed.  The former could be listened to by the devs and might help to make the game better, while the latter will likely be ignored as being a "vocal minority" and nothing will change.

 

Regarding the use of mods... writing your own mod is something most people won't ever do in their life for any game.  However, there is no reason they can't use a mod someone else wrote.  Mods are mostly plug and play in this game.  Copy it to your mods folder and you're usually done.  Hardly rocket science.  Will most people use mods even if it's easy?  Of course not.  That won't stop them from playing the game, though.  They just might not play it as long as someone who does use mods.  For those who care enough about the game to want things changed, they have easy access to mods that are already written and are easy to use.  Mods have been around for many, many years and are found even for some casual games.  Not everyone would know about mods but a lot will and anyone who has friends playing the game will probably even be told about mods from their friends.  For the rest, they are either going to like or dislike the game and that's not really going to change no matter what the devs do.  Any change might make one person like it more and make another person like it less, so it's really not changing anything other than which people like or dislike the game.

[vom]

8 minutes ago, Riamus said:

we see a lot of posts complaining that quest rewards are not balanced and where are the complaints coming from?  People who don't like questing.  Those who do like questing may agree that more balancing is needed but they aren't the ones complaining.  The ones who are complaining are those who don't want to quest and don't want anyone with another play style to have better progression than them. 

 

The game is becoming unplayable unless you interact with the trader.

That's why people are concerned.

 

 

[Fox]

37 minutes ago, Riamus said:

It is interesting how often people who admit that they've been playing this for years complain about how it is for new players and suggest that the reasons they want things a certain way is the same reason a new player would.  A new player doesn't know how things were different in older alphas and will play the game without that knowledge.  They will like it or not like it based solely on the version they start with and not based on what used to be in the game or how the game used to function.  Veteran players are the ones who complain about changes from past alphas, not new players.

Well, sorry for not specifically mentioning a few of my friends and a family member who are all still very new to the game and either have issues or don't even like the game at all... two of which told me "The game was really confusing and way too hard". Soooorry for not including my personal life into this topic to prevent such snide remarks such as those.

 

The reason new players generally don't bother to find this website, go through the tedious process of making an account then posting a complaint only to then likely abandon the game anyway is because 99.9% of the time, it falls on deaf ears, and realistically, what's the point? Even if the devs listened to the new players, the new players have no reason to commit to waiting for changes as they haven't spent hundreds or more hours into the game yet, and Steam has millions of other games waiting to be played.

Edited July 20, 2023 by Fox (see edit history)

[Riamus]

31 minutes ago, vom said:

 

The game is becoming unplayable unless you interact with the trader.

That's why people are concerned.

Considering the trader is meant to be a core part of the game, I don't see any reason why the devs shouldn't design the game with the intention of players using the trader.

 

5 minutes ago, Fox said:

Well, sorry for not specifically mentioning a few of my friends and a family member who are all still very new to the game and either have issues or don't even like the game at all... two of which told me "The game was really confusing and way too hard". Soooorry for not including my personal life into this topic to prevent such snide remarks such as those.

 

The reason new players generally don't bother to find this website, go through the tedious process of making an account then posting a complaint only to then likely abandon the game anyway is because 99.9% of the time, it falls on deaf ears, and realistically, what's the point? Even if the devs listened to the new players, the new players have no reason to commit to waiting for changes as they haven't spent hundreds or more hours into the game yet, and Steam has millions of other games waiting to be played.

Any game will have those who do not like it.  I even said that some new players will like it and some will not.  That can't be fixed because people all like different types of games.  What I said was that new players don't care about what used to be in the game because they haven't seen what used to be in the game.  They only care about the game when they start playing it.  And it will be either something they like or don't like depending on what types of games they like.

[meganoth]

2 hours ago, Scyris said:

It shouldn't be the solution but everytime you complain about the vanilla gameplay a moderator or someone usually tells you "well mod it then", as in they have no interest in fixing the issues people have.

 

Is there maybe a compelling reason that the moderators do not fix the issues people have? Like that they don't have any access to the source code, are not developers and most of them are not even employed by TFP?

 

 

 

 

 

[Fox]

3 minutes ago, Riamus said:

Any game will have those who do not like it.  I even said that some new players will like it and some will not.  That can't be fixed because people all like different types of games.  What I said was that new players don't care about what used to be in the game because they haven't seen what used to be in the game.  They only care about the game when they start playing it.  And it will be either something they like or don't like depending on what types of games they like.

The ones I mentioned, who bought the game recently, are all into survival crafting games and have spent thousands of hours into Minecraft and other games like it. You telling me this game isn't for them? What's the target audience then if not for ppl like them?

[vom]

9 minutes ago, Riamus said:

Considering the trader is meant to be a core part of the game, I don't see any reason why the devs shouldn't design the game with the intention of players using the trader.

 

Considering the game was more fun before, I can see a reason why.

 

I wanted to play a survival crafting game, not a loot trader grind.

Edited July 20, 2023 by vom (see edit history)

[Fox]

14 minutes ago, vom said:

 

Considering the game was more fun before, I can see a reason why.

 

I wanted to play a survival crafting game, not a loot trader grind.

Not to mention an open world game where you can do what you want... not some linear game where the moment you stray from the path, you die.

[Khissi]

You know, you guys have very valid arguments for how YOU like to play.  You're wanting 7 Days to be the way you want it to be and get upset when it's not the way you want it to be.  You don't consider that there are LITERALLY thousands of people out there playing this game who never come to the forums because they're having fun, enjoying the ride, making the game their own, because they can.  No other game out there can be as easily changed, manipulated, modded, and/or tweaked by the person who is actually playing the game as 7 Days. Nothing exists that can match this one detail.  The ability to dig about in the xml files and make adjustments to fit your idea of fun, the settings included in the game, the ease they've tried to build into the base game so modders can do what they do... not one other game can do that, or, at least, none that I've found, and I've searched.

 

I don't care what an individual person wants the game to be as long as the developers keep working to make the base game stable and keep it open to the players so it can be molded to fit each person's abilities and likes either through settings, xml tweaks, or mods. They're working hard for that goal and I'd far rather they give me the game they envision and then let me make that game fit what I'm wanting and capable of doing.  These arguments about traders and missions and crafting don't matter when the game is not even in Beta, much less Gold.  Make the game what you wish it to be!  You have that power, why not use it?

[Vaeliorin]

3 hours ago, Riamus said:

Now, we see a lot of posts complaining that quest rewards are not balanced and where are the complaints coming from?  People who don't like questing.  Those who do like questing may agree that more balancing is needed but they aren't the ones complaining.  The ones who are complaining are those who don't want to quest and don't want anyone with another play style to have better progression than them.  It's the same with traders in general.  Those who don't want to use traders complain about traders, not because there are traders but because the game is easier if you use traders than if you don't.

This is categorically untrue.  I have no issues with quests or traders, I have issue with how they're balanced because they make doing anything other than questing/trading pointless.  I don't want all my best gear to come from quest rewards or be bought from the trader.  I want there to be a point to crafting outside of the early part of the game.

 

I still think Q6 should be craft only, and that all Q6 items should have some perk over Q5.  As much as I like the rebalance of item progression/mod slots, It's made it where finding a Q6 of a top tier item is kind of a meh moment because the difference between a Q6 Steel Pickaxe and a Q5 Steel Pickaxe (for example) is minimal now.  Sure, it's great if you're rocking a lower tier item (or a Q3 or below of the same tier) but if you've got Q4 or better, it just doesn't matter that much.

 

And before you say some people don't want to craft, by the time you can make a Q6 of any item, you should easily have gathered the resources to make that item.  Also, 7D2D is the "Survival Horde Crafting Game", so some crafting should be expected.

[Fox]

2 hours ago, Khissi said:

You know, you guys have very valid arguments for how YOU like to play.  You're wanting 7 Days to be the way you want it to be and get upset when it's not the way you want it to be.  You don't consider that there are LITERALLY thousands of people out there playing this game who never come to the forums because they're having fun, enjoying the ride, making the game their own, because they can.  No other game out there can be as easily changed, manipulated, modded, and/or tweaked by the person who is actually playing the game as 7 Days. Nothing exists that can match this one detail.  The ability to dig about in the xml files and make adjustments to fit your idea of fun, the settings included in the game, the ease they've tried to build into the base game so modders can do what they do... not one other game can do that, or, at least, none that I've found, and I've searched.

- Oh great, another one who makes assumptions about ppl making assumptions.

- You also assume they're all having fun enjoying the game, but sure, I'll give you that one, they can't all be miserable.

- "No other game out there can easily be changed" well, that's laughably wrong in so many ways. I guess you never played one of the thousands of Minecraft modpacks, a lot of which drastically changes the entire game? Hell, even Skyrim and Fallout 4 has more game changing mods than this game.

 

One of the major problems with your argument is that while this game can be modded quite a bit, each new update breaks all those mods which is why there's so few mods all the time. These devs refuse to just finish making the game because they can't ever make up their minds about anything they do.

Edited July 20, 2023 by Fox (see edit history)

[RipClaw]

I have a question for those who think that quest rewards are overpowered. What rewards would you expect for a T4, T5 or T6 quest?

 

In the past, especially with T5 quests, people have complained that the rewards are not worth the time and resources. Especially when you play primarily with firearms, you use a lot of ammo.

[Fox]

12 minutes ago, RipClaw said:

I have a question for those who think that quest rewards are overpowered. What rewards would you expect for a T4, T5 or T6 quest?

 

In the past, especially with T5 quests, people have complained that the rewards are not worth the time and resources. Especially when you play primarily with firearms, you use a lot of ammo.

I find all quests to be way too easy, so for me, anything like: scrap armors, iron tools, books which is so annoyingly needed all the time, ammo, a stack of good food, a stack of clean water, etc. The fact that I could in theory complete any quest using nothing but knuckles and bows by simply using well known exploits should say something about what the rewards should actually be.

Edited July 20, 2023 by Fox (see edit history)

[Vaeliorin]

7 minutes ago, RipClaw said:

I have a question for those who think that quest rewards are overpowered. What rewards would you expect for a T4, T5 or T6 quest?

 

In the past, especially with T5 quests, people have complained that the rewards are not worth the time and resources. Especially when you play primarily with firearms, you use a lot of ammo.

More crafting mags, more ammo, maybe some of the non-weapon/tool bundles (although you'd probably want to make another version of the ammo crafting bundle for T4+ quests).  Maybe more dukes.  Heck, make T5+ quests always give you 2 rewards, and if you've got max Daring Adventurer you get 3. 

 

The fact of the matter is, though, that the jump from T4 to T5 POIs is so great (not in difficulty, necessarily, but in time required) that I don't know that you can have a worthwhile reward from a T5 unless you nerf the heck out of the rewards from T4 down.  Maybe make T4 and below not able to give you weapons/tools, T5 give Q1-3 items, and T6 give Q4-6 items.  I still wouldn't bother doing T6's (or non-infested T5s) but I imagine other people would.

Edited July 20, 2023 by Vaeliorin (see edit history)

[Riamus]

4 minutes ago, Vaeliorin said:

More crafting mags, more ammo, maybe some of the non-weapon/tool bundles.  Maybe more dukes.  Heck, make T5+ quests always give you 2 rewards, and if you've got max Daring Adventurer you get 3. 

 

The fact of the matter is, though, that the jump from T4 to T5 POIs is so great (not in difficulty, necessarily, but in time required) that I don't know that you can have a worthwhile reward from a T5 unless you nerf the heck out of the rewards from T4 down.  Maybe make T4 and below not able to give you weapons/tools, T5 give Q1-3 items, and T6 give Q4-6 items.  I still wouldn't bother doing T6's (or non-infested T5s) but I imagine other people would.

This is actually the opposite that just about everyone here is asking for, which shows very well that people have very different expectations of the game and not everyone can be pleased with any choices the devs make.  You want more from the quest rewards, while most people posting want less.  Though most who want less are focused more on the earlier game so might not care about tier 4+ rewards.

 

I agree with you in part - tier 5 quests have a time commitment that makes a lesser reward not worth the effort for many people.  Especially if you're new to the game.  It used to take me at least 45 minutes real time to complete a tier 5 and usually about 1 1/2 hours when I first started playing.  Once I figured out the game, I dropped those numbers by close to half.  I can't remember the last time it took me over 30-45 minutes or so to complete a tier 5.  Granted, I don't scrap everything I find and only loot containers.  But it's still a lot longer than earlier tiers and the rewards don't have a similar jump in value to compensate.  **I haven't yet come across the two prisons, so I can't comment on time to complete those yet.

 

On the other hand, I really don't care about the rewards.  If it offers me something better than I have, sure... I'll take it.  But at least in A21, I rarely see anything worth much to me.  Most of the time, I end up grabbing the magazine bundle and the forged steel (yes, I have DA maxed just because I like taking 2 rewards just in case I can't make up my mind).  Granted, if the rewards were better, I might be more interested.  But at the same time, I don't really need better rewards.  I get plenty from loot during the quest.

 

I suppose a compromise of better rewards at tier 4/5/6 and less rewards at tier 1/2/3 would be possible.  It could be an improved scaling system where you get less in the early tiers and more in the late tiers but I don't know if that would really work all that well.  As far as dukes, though... we definitely don't need more money.  We get so much already that it's not really worth anything.

20 minutes ago, Fox said:

I find all quests to be way too easy, so for me, anything past scrap armors or iron tools is probably a bit overkill. The fact that I could in theory complete any quest using nothing but knuckles and bows by simply using well known exploits should say something about what the rewards should actually be.

This I can absolutely agree with.  POIs are really not challenging once you know them.  I haven't done the prisons yet since I haven't found them, so those may be different.  But all others I've done are easy after seeing what to expect.  The only real way to change that at this point is to have higher difficulty settings to choose from or impose your own limitations on what you can use.  I don't really see them coming up with a new way to challenge players in quests and POIs this close to gold.  Bandits are unlikely to offer any real challenge and I honestly am not looking forward to having them in the game, though I wouldn't mind being surprised and liking them.

42 minutes ago, Vaeliorin said:

Also, 7D2D is the "Survival Horde Crafting Game", so some crafting should be expected.

And they made an attempt to make crafting more used with the magazine system.  It actually is being used by more people now than in A20, I think.  And I think that's why there are so many complaints related to it.  More people are using it because magazines helped direct people toward crafting but that just made the flaws of the crafting system all the more apparent.  They clearly want people to craft, so suggesting that they aren't interested in making crafting viable is not accurate.  The problem is the crafting system in this game is really bad and their adjustments to it aren't working.  At least, not up to this point.  I doubt making crafting keep up with everything else is going to really get people crafting much more because they'll just see even more how much crafting isn't worth it.  They need to start by finding a way to make crafting actually worthwhile before worrying about balancing the progression of it, imo.  And that doesn't mean they nerf loot even more.  It means finding a way to make it interesting or make it so you can craft things you can't loot or buy (I'm not talking about tier 6 stuff) or something else.  I really don't expect much there, though.

[Skaarphy]

A solution could be for traders to not give out any quest rewards above tier 3 or 4, and for them to sell high-tier gear for a considerably higher price. That way you could still get useful gear through quest rewards, and still have good reasons to save up some dukes, but it wouldn't kick crafting in the balls.   

Edited July 20, 2023 by Skaarphy
Typo (see edit history)

[BFT2020]

1 hour ago, Skaarphy said:

A solution could be for traders to not give out any quest rewards above tier 3 or 4, and for them to sell high-tier gear for a considerably higher price. That way you could still get useful gear through quest rewards, and still have good reasons to save up some dukes, but it wouldn't kick crafting in the balls.   

 

That's basically what I did with my trader mod.  Removed quest rewards (for all tiers and tier completion), boosted the price of items with quality, and increase time for restocking.  I also reduced the open time of the traders.  I did a flat boost to dukes since I removed the rewards (10%) but nothing too OP.  I went the route that the quests are really jobs that the traders are asking you to do so paying you for completing the job, not giving away free merchandise.

[Khissi]

5 hours ago, Fox said:

- Oh great, another one who makes assumptions about ppl making assumptions.

- You also assume they're all having fun enjoying the game, but sure, I'll give you that one, they can't all be miserable.

- "No other game out there can easily be changed" well, that's laughably wrong in so many ways. I guess you never played one of the thousands of Minecraft modpacks, a lot of which drastically changes the entire game? Hell, even Skyrim and Fallout 4 has more game changing mods than this game.

 

One of the major problems with your argument is that while this game can be modded quite a bit, each new update breaks all those mods which is why there's so few mods all the time. These devs refuse to just finish making the game because they can't ever make up their minds about anything they do.

*Searches carefully for any assumption made other than that people are out there actually enjoying the game...*  Having played many, many hours of Skyrim and Fallout 4, I know very well how easily they are MODDED as finished games.... GOLD games.  I've played quite a few hours of Minecraft, as well... with my grandkids.  The mods are, well... whatever.  Even my grandkids no longer want anything to do with the newest versions.  I have NOT, however, noted a vast number of ways to change gameplay 'settings' in any of these or to personalize the game in the way that 7 Days allows.

 

Updates and alpha builds are a bit different for 7 Days which, if I'm given to understand what the word 'alpha' means, it's NOT a completed game.  Having played lots and lots of mods with this game, I will state that my argument has no problem since, while modders do indeed have to update their mods with every new alpha, it's NOT A COMPLETED GAME!  They know what they're signing on to when they create their mods.  Yet, the developers do their best to give them the tools needed to update the mods.  Even our crotchety, lovely, talented Khaine acknowledges that! It's not a perfect thing, but it's better than anything else out there and I challenge anyone to find otherwise and go play it.

[meganoth]

5 hours ago, RipClaw said:

I have a question for those who think that quest rewards are overpowered. What rewards would you expect for a T4, T5 or T6 quest?

 

In the past, especially with T5 quests, people have complained that the rewards are not worth the time and resources. Especially when you play primarily with firearms, you use a lot of ammo.

 

How about putting some of the rewards "wealth" into chests of a tier5 instead of the trader reward? I mean if a tier5 is say 5 times as long as a tier1 why are there not 5 times as many valuable boxes lying around on the way through the POI?

 

And how about simply removing tiered items from the rewards or making them appropriate to your level? You can always select the money or ammo instead.

 

Currently the trader is the central reason for the game not having a working crafting game and a progression that everyone can easily jump over.

 

 

 

 

Edited July 20, 2023 by meganoth (see edit history)

[Cr0wst0rm]

17 hours ago, Slingblade2040 said:

Ok this for some reason has become to go to argument and reason for folks here and folks with certain privileges. 

 

This can't be the only solution if people want to craft things. Yet again another play through not even at day 12 yet and already full steel tools, tact rifle and going to sell a quality 4 auger that was given as a quest reward.  

 

Slow down questing, slow down resource gathering, ignore traders. Basically the feed back from people is ignore game content, stop playing like a normal player would. What normal player doesn't do more than 1 quest per day until they reach tier 4 or 5s which can easily take 30+ minutes to do and by that time the rewards outpace anything you can craft not to mention the loot you can find. 

 

So far each alpha has put more emphasis into the traders and their quests. While the whole nerf to secret stash helped out some it seems that instead it was moved into quests and negates the entire progression system of the magazines. 

 

There has to be a better solution than being told play 40 minutes and ignore most of the game content otherwise you make crafting gear, weapons and tools pointless. If this is told to new players they would look at this as ridiculous especially for a game that's been in EA for about 10 years.

I am actually so @%$#ed of by the new books, I think previously the system worked OK, you could choose what you need based on X spending points. Now you need to find X random books, and have for every little thing this book and that magazine

1) it pollutes inventory when you find some already read books
2) non relevant books lower the chance of finding that very exact book you want

I completely gave up at this point. I created 20 workbenches, because I don't want spend time looking for that exact skill (whether it is book or a simple skill point thing) and farm from screamer hordes as a result of me being ignorant.

So in the end dont care, I ignore all the game content and yet at the same time I am @%$#ed off by certain design decisions. But what you're going to do, right?

Edited July 20, 2023 by Cr0wst0rm (see edit history)

[Skaarphy]

2 hours ago, BFT2020 said:

 

That's basically what I did with my trader mod.  Removed quest rewards (for all tiers and tier completion), boosted the price of items with quality, and increase time for restocking.  I also reduced the open time of the traders.  I did a flat boost to dukes since I removed the rewards (10%) but nothing too OP.  I went the route that the quests are really jobs that the traders are asking you to do so paying you for completing the job, not giving away free merchandise.

That sounds excellent. Have you considered doing it in a kind of modular way? Like, giving options to not removing quest rewards, adjusting the time for restocking according to your preferences, etc., and being able to do that in the menu? Is that possible?

 

[RipClaw]

27 minutes ago, meganoth said:

And how about simply removing tiered items from the rewards or making them appropriate to your level? You can always select the money or ammo instead.

Tying the rewards to the loot stage would not be a bad idea. Maybe with a bonus based on quest level and quest type.

 

30 minutes ago, meganoth said:

Currently the trader is the central reason for the game not having a working crafting game and a progression that everyone can easily jump over.

Crafting skills are independent of player level or game stage. It solely depends on how many magazines you have read for each skill. Therefore, it is difficult to balance this with the trader level or the loot level.