Is ignoring game content the only option?

[Slingblade2040]

Ok this for some reason has become to go to argument and reason for folks here and folks with certain privileges. 

 

This can't be the only solution if people want to craft things. Yet again another play through not even at day 12 yet and already full steel tools, tact rifle and going to sell a quality 4 auger that was given as a quest reward.  

 

Slow down questing, slow down resource gathering, ignore traders. Basically the feed back from people is ignore game content, stop playing like a normal player would. What normal player doesn't do more than 1 quest per day until they reach tier 4 or 5s which can easily take 30+ minutes to do and by that time the rewards outpace anything you can craft not to mention the loot you can find. 

 

So far each alpha has put more emphasis into the traders and their quests. While the whole nerf to secret stash helped out some it seems that instead it was moved into quests and negates the entire progression system of the magazines. 

 

There has to be a better solution than being told play 40 minutes and ignore most of the game content otherwise you make crafting gear, weapons and tools pointless. If this is told to new players they would look at this as ridiculous especially for a game that's been in EA for about 10 years.

[theFlu]

Ye, no, there's no good option to slow down the other progress in favor of crafting your own gear. If you slow down looting, you'll slow down getting books for the crafting. The only thing that would work, is doing a paper boy run across the world as the first thing, looting all the mail and just the mailboxes, plus whatever kitchens and toilets you need to sustain yourself while doing that. Not exactly something I'd advocate as a fun game mode.

 

So, couple options;

1) try to find a mod that suits you.

2) accept the situation and do something like trying to push into higher difficulties as challenge runs; (if you're so inclined and have room in the settings to challenge yourself by that. might not be the case of course)

3) or join us again in a year or two to see what A22 is made out of ... not even being rude, sometimes calling it quits is the right call.

 

For myself, I'll finish my current and then do a challenge run or two with this one (A20.0) and then likely opt for 3) .. I might take look at the 21-point-X releases, but not expecting my gripes to improve..

[Riamus]

The way I look at it, you don't need to use every type of progression in the game.  For perks who like questing and looting, there really isn't much incentive to craft, and I don't think that is really a problem.  Crafting for progression is more valuable to those who don't want to quest and loot.  I'm not saying it shouldn't be balanced more, but the system they have now cannot be balanced for every number of people and for all playstyles.  At least, I don't see how it can be.  I think quest rewards can be toned down and trader inventory might be lowered and as well to help balance crafting but I don't think a true balance can occur with what they have and I don't really think it has to.

[Fox]

I've always ignored the quests until mid to late gamestage because I agree in that the rewards are ridiculously OP and break the progression system.

 

Also, you cannot craft anything until you've spent hours looting for hundreds of books, and by that time, you've already gotten everything you wanted anyway leaving no reason to craft. I think this new system is terrible and not fun at all. It just feels way too linear and controlled.

Edited July 19, 2023 by Fox (see edit history)

[warmer]

Too much loot. Lower it in options.

 

People that complain about similar things baffle me when 99% of what they are complaining about is user adjustable.

 

Give yourself rules like you can only craft x type of gear. You have the power

Edited July 19, 2023 by warmer (see edit history)

[vom]

I never do quests or go to the trader.

I'm apparently playing a different game than the rest of you.

Seems increasingly difficult though, how to find sustainable water?

[Slingblade2040]

22 minutes ago, warmer said:

Too much loot. Lower it in options.

 

People that complain about similar things baffle me when 99% of what they are complaining about is user adjustable.

 

Give yourself rules like you can only craft x type of gear. You have the power

That doesn't fix the trader issues. Not only that but if playing on default throws the games balance off that much then it's obviously a massive balance issue that the pimps need to fix.

 

This isn't a simple lower loot percentage this is an overall issue with the entire progression system.

[Fox]

22 minutes ago, warmer said:

Too much loot. Lower it in options.

That doesn't solve a damn thing. You need loot in order to get books, and you need books in order to craft anything useful. Therefore, lowering the loot changes nothing other than make the problem worse by not being able to do anything even longer.

[Kam R.]

13 minutes ago, vom said:

(...)

Seems increasingly difficult though, how to find sustainable water?

Loot. You will always loot water unless you allow yourself to use the trader. That is the only source of the water filter for building dew collectors.

I read somewhere that water filters are in loot too. Never seen one. If they are, they don't appear soon enough and obviously it's easier to get the 2025 dukes to buy 'em.

 

Or loot a water filter helmet mod and then live next to a lake to drink from, but no coffee or smoothies for you then.

 

 

Traders seem to be the one thing TFP actually REALLY don't want to see ignored. Want to have water in your base? Want to use solar power? Then screw your no-trader playthrough and grind 'em quests. :]

[Riamus]

Just now, Kam R. said:

That is the only source of the water filter for building dew collectors.

I read somewhere that water filters are in loot too. Never seen one. If they are, they don't appear soon enough and obviously it's easier to get the 2025 dukes to buy 'em.

They can be found only in broken dew collectors other than buying them at a trader.  Since there are few broken dew collectors in the world and the drop chance is very low, the chances of looting one is minimal.

 

Anyone who doesn't want to use traders at all should be using a mod that makes the filter easier to find in loot or else changes the recipe for the dew collector so it doesn't use a filter.

[Fox]

9 minutes ago, Kam R. said:

Loot. You will always loot water unless you allow yourself to use the trader. That is the only source of the water filter for building dew collectors.

I read somewhere that water filters are in loot too. Never seen one. If they are, they don't appear soon enough and obviously it's easier to get the 2025 dukes to buy 'em.

 

Or loot a water filter helmet mod and then live next to a lake to drink from, but no coffee or smoothies for you then.

 

 

Traders seem to be the one thing TFP actually REALLY don't want to see ignored. Want to have water in your base? Want to use solar power? Then screw your no-trader playthrough and grind 'em quests. :]

I think this is also stupid. We're surrounded by lakes and rivers but can't touch any of it because F-U, that's why. They couldn't even be bothered to give an explanation for why we can't touch the natural sources of water or why bottles just disappear. The least they could have done was change the color of the water and make it instantly toxic to walk into or something. Buying a filter from traders who all seem to have an endless supply of them somehow or finding BOTTLES of toilet water (and bottles of dirty water from a water cooler) is our only source of water is all just ridiculous.

 

The devs are trying way too hard to force difficulty to the point of stupidity and making it unenjoyable and I can't even imagine what new players go through with this game anymore as nothing is what a new player would be used to seeing in a survival crafting game. It'd be like deciphering a code just to be able to play a game "correctly".

Edited July 19, 2023 by Fox (see edit history)

[Kam R.]

13 minutes ago, Riamus said:

They can be found only in broken dew collectors other than buying them at a trader.  Since there are few broken dew collectors in the world and the drop chance is very low, the chances of looting one is minimal.

 

Anyone who doesn't want to use traders at all should be using a mod that makes the filter easier to find in loot or else changes the recipe for the dew collector so it doesn't use a filter.

I know I can mod the game. Just pointing out one new (water) and one old (solar) example of how traders aren't avoidable by the default game design if you want that content. Drop rate in broken dew collectors must be VERY rare then. I found quite a lot of them since release.

7 minutes ago, Fox said:

I think this is also stupid. We're surrounded by lakes and rivers but can't touch any of it because F-U, that's why. They couldn't even be bothered to give an explanation for why we can't touch the natural sources of water or why bottles just disappear. The least they could have done was change the color of the water and make it instantly toxic to walk into or something.

 

The devs are trying way too hard to force difficulty to the point of stupidity and making it unenjoyable and I can't even imagine what new players go through with this game anymore as nothing is what a new player would be used to seeing in a survival crafting game. It'd be like deciphering a code just to be able to play a game "correctly".

The water thing sure is cause for a lot of confusion. I'm usually on our community server and many new players have no clue what to do. They go in with some survival game mindset where you would craft stuff to advance and where you would use what's around you - like a huge body of water to get some hydration - only to realize they have to go suck some NPC teets to advance. And then -without exception- that is all I see them doing until they quit after 2 weeks or so.

Edited July 19, 2023 by Kam R. (see edit history)

[vom]

I never use the trader.

Questing is garbage content.

 

Every update it seems increasingly difficult to do anything without using the trader. I used to survive in the woods hunting deer and drinking water from ponds, but without glass bottles, it no longer seems possible.

 

 

[warmer]

19 minutes ago, Fox said:

That doesn't solve a damn thing. You need loot in order to get books, and you need books in order to craft anything useful. Therefore, lowering the loot changes nothing other than make the problem worse by not being able to do anything even longer.

Buy them. Nothing stopping you from buying books. Give yourself rules about what you can and can't use. Edit the loot table. I am sure there is a mod that will address this soon. I play dead is dead, because respawning doesn't have a significant penalty. Self made rule, that makes the game more fun/challenging for me.

[Kam R.]

2 minutes ago, vom said:

I never use the trader.

Questing is garbage content.

 

Every update it seems increasingly difficult to do anything without using the trader. I used to survive in the woods hunting deer and drinking water from ponds, but without glass bottles, it no longer seems possible.

 

 

Water filter helmet mod is a way, if you can find one. You may even just cm one in your inventory at start then you can do your woodsman thing:]

[vom]

24 minutes ago, Kam R. said:

screw your no-trader playthrough and grind 'em quests

I'd rather just not play the game.

 

Traders are spoonfed braindead content, the opposite of the sandbox survival game it once was.

[Fox]

1 hour ago, warmer said:

Buy them. Nothing stopping you from buying books. Give yourself rules about what you can and can't use. Edit the loot table. I am sure there is a mod that will address this soon. I play dead is dead, because respawning doesn't have a significant penalty. Self made rule, that makes the game more fun/challenging for me.

And we're back to relying on traders again which we've already established breaks the game balance. Editing / modding the game is completely irrelevant to the issue at hand. Your solution is basically that everyone with their eyes open and can see the problem should modify their game in order to get a decent balanced game content or use traders which also break the game content.

 

My point is that the new system is just as broken if not more broken than the previous systems this game has seen and I'm quite confident we'll be seeing yet another new system next year or at least a merge with other systems to sort of balance the issue better.

 

1 hour ago, Kam R. said:

Water filter helmet mod is a way, if you can find one. You may even just cm one in your inventory at start then you can do your woodsman thing:]

I think they're level / book gated like everything else. So the odds of getting one legitimately when it's actually useful is slim to none.

Edited July 19, 2023 by Fox (see edit history)

[Kam R.]

4 minutes ago, vom said:

I'd rather just not play the game.

 

Traders are spoonfed braindead content, the opposite of the sandbox survival game it once was.

Just to be clear, didn't mean to attack your playstyle, I rather agree with it in fact. Whenever I move away from exploring on my own terms to doing quests I feel like I'm on rails. That's the one thing I don't really want from a sandbox game.

[vom]

Yes, quests are garbage content.

If the trader is now mandatory for survival, it's not a game worth playing.

 

I was enjoying my latest map until I realized I was going to die of thirst and there is no way to obtain water.

[Vaeliorin]

11 minutes ago, Fox said:

I think they're level / book gated like everything else. So the odds of getting one legitimately when it's actually useful is slim to none.

They're not.  One of my playthroughs in A21 I found a helmet water filter mod in the end loot of the very first T1 POI I did.  I ended up with 6 of them by Day 11.

[Maharin]

21 minutes ago, vom said:

I was enjoying my latest map until I realized I was going to die of thirst and there is no way to obtain water.

 

I don't play with traders either (usually play perma death, no traders, no loot respawn, no supply drops).

 

You can drink directly from bodies of water and takes the risks involved with that, but at least you won't die of thirst.  You can also still find bottles of dirty water and either drink them (again, risks) or boil the water in a pot on a fire to make it safe to drink.  Water is still available, it is just not so easily available now.

 

Personally, I've known for many alphas that the devs' direction for the game is not what I would like overall.  I will wait until release and then mod the game into what I want to play and once polished I will finally release that mod to the public in case other people want to play the game the same way.  In the meantime I will continue to pop in from time to time and play each alpha just to get a feel for how things are progressing.  Admittedly, my play time has been getting shorter and shorter with each new alpha.

[4sheetzngeegles]

The way I got my helmet and mod was in my second play through. Play 1, was testing my stone throw-able spear that I

modded back in. The rest are thrust only, no jars, and the dew collector, were new so i wanted to see how it would play out.

I drank by hand and died. So i put on my big boy pants, and started a new game. I am a nomadic scavenger, similar to what

Vom spoke of before.

 

I like to push the limits to see whats possible, so I started sweep and clears of any poi with 3 or more skulls.

Came across the high school. Stealthed bow sniped, the spiders, and worked my way from the roof down, and wham I got books

from the library, as well as canned food so i could stay longer, in one of the lockers was the helmet. In another was the filter mod.

Mind you I started in the am, and finished just before dawn. Bow and spear and stone axe.

 

I like to earn what I keep. But i wanted to also understand the changes that had been made. I still play my way but now I know I can

if I choose play any other way. So I create a second save and test things that I read about here, just to experience it.

 

120 min days so i was there for approx 2 hours.

Edited July 19, 2023 by 4sheetzngeegles (see edit history)

[warmer]

59 minutes ago, Fox said:

And we're back to relying on traders again which we've already established breaks the game balance. Editing / modding the game is completely irrelevant to the issue at hand. 

Your opinion is they break game balance. You may have established that, I didn't. I personally think this is the most fun version of the game I have played and I started at A6. If you don't like the direction, load up A20.

 

It is impossible to please everyone all the time, so you aim for the middle. Some people will love it, and you can't just listen to those that hate it. Those that do are always the vocal minority.

 

There will never be a perfect version that suits everyone because there will always be something you loved from an old Alpha. I personally would wait 2x as long for a map with caves. That isn't happening unless I mod it. Do I @%$# and moan, or do I use my agency and power to please myself? Modding is so easy now. Drop in a modlet done. It will take you less time than writing your last post

 

People with agency who complain when they have the power to fix it themselves vs. waiting months for a potential bug fix crack me up.

Edited July 19, 2023 by warmer (see edit history)

[theFlu]

Just now, warmer said:

If you don't like the direction, load up A20.

Hi, meet Fox. I'm not sure A12 was going in the right direction for him. I might not disagree, but I'll play these console versions as well...

[Fox]

27 minutes ago, Maharin said:

Personally, I've known for many alphas that the devs' direction for the game is not what I would like overall.  I will wait until release and then mod the game into what I want to play and once polished I will finally release that mod to the public in case other people want to play the game the same way.  In the meantime I will continue to pop in from time to time and play each alpha just to get a feel for how things are progressing.  Admittedly, my play time has been getting shorter and shorter with each new alpha.

Same here. I play test each new release just so I can understand and know what all the changes are, and like you, been spending less time with each new release as it feels like it just keeps getting worse. Hopefully, the mods can save the game.

17 minutes ago, theFlu said:

Hi, meet Fox. I'm not sure A12 was going in the right direction for him. I might not disagree, but I'll play these console versions as well...

Huh?

20 minutes ago, warmer said:

If you don't like the direction, load up A20.

 

Some people will love it, and you can't just listen to those that hate it. Those that do are always the vocal minority.

 

Modding is so easy now. Drop in a modlet done. It will take you less time than writing your last post

 

People with agency who complain when they have the power to fix it themselves vs. waiting months for a potential bug fix crack me up.

A20 wasn't that much better either... 1 step forward, 2 steps back with EVERY update that's been released in the last several years. My fav version is still A10.4 even though it lacks all the flashy new stuff that I do like in these newer versions. Unfortunately, I played that version into the ground and need a long break from it.

 

Seems to me like the ones who don't like the way things are right now in this particular thread are a majority, not a minority. If you can't listen to those that hate it, then why are you here talking to those that hate it?

 

Modding is only easy for those who know what they're doing. I for one don't have the patience to learn that stuff anymore because every game seems to have their own language and I'm just done with learning that stuff now. I have far too many games in my steam library and I'm definitely not going to learn how to mod each one just so I can enjoy all of them.