Dew Collector change suggestion.

[kryzzk]

I would like to start by saying that I don't like that I can't collect water from real sources without mods. I would have added an additional water type, so you had "Dirty water" taken from any source, "boiled water" that you could drink but it might make you sick, and "clean water" something that had been filtered a little better so that it would not make you sick. and then the "purified water" that raises your stats better.  Then the dew collector could have given you "Boiled" or ""clean" water but at a very slow rate, with no raise in the heat map.

 

Given the direction water is going, I suggest either:

 

Make the current dew collector not raise the heat map but give "dirty" water that still needs to be cooked. 

 

Or 

 

make a second model for the dew collector, one with a "campfire" or other such item attached to it or add a "mod slot" that adds a device to "Boil" the water.

 

Make the current one give dirty water that still needs to be cooked to be drinkable but doesn't raise the heat map, make the other an "advanced" dew collector, or something like that, that requires fuel to boil the water and make it drinkable on the spot but raises the heat map. 

 

This way making drinkable water still raises the heat map like it used to but in a more logical way, and also still requires fuel to make drinkable water like before.

Edited June 29, 2023 by kryzzk (see edit history)

[doughphunghus]

31 minutes ago, kryzzk said:

 

Make the current dew collector not raise the heat map but give "dirty" water that still needs to be cooked. 

I agree and am actually making a mod (yeah i know you are wanting this to be vanilla changes.... have hope! Enough people are complaining and they may make more changes. But for now you have to mod). to do this (dew collector gives murky water) But theres also also several other changes in it to make "water more challenging".  I have not decided about the heat property yet (ill probably keep it but lower the heat output... but i just heard today about the heat output change). Im on the fence about it still, but what i was working on had no heat output, i just raised "how long to get water from it" to be like 4x longer than it was so having heat output on that may be excessive

 

Anyway: maybe it will sorta be what you want, though in a mod.  I haven't finished and playtested it yet either so it may be "water is a lot harder", which is how i want it to be (personally). I hope to release it this weekend.

 

Also: i have a dew collector v2 (just collects dew faster) and a mini chem station "water purifier" in there... amongst other things. Sort if what you also mentioned (additional workstations/filters)

Edited June 29, 2023 by doughphunghus (see edit history)

[Syphon583]

26 minutes ago, kryzzk said:

I would like to start by saying that I don't like that I can't get water from real sources without mods.

What do you mean, "by mods"? Because as of A21, you can drink from (almost) and water source with an empty hand. Just look at the water with nothing equipped for a couple seconds and press E when prompted.

 

If you're referring to "mods" as in the helmet filter mod, you can still drink from any source without it, you just have a small chance of getting dysentery (which is easily curable)

[kryzzk]

10 minutes ago, Syphon583 said:

What do you mean, "by mods"? Because as of A21, you can drink from (almost) and water source with an empty hand. Just look at the water with nothing equipped for a couple seconds and press E when prompted.

 

If you're referring to "mods" as in the helmet filter mod, you can still drink from any source without it, you just have a small chance of getting dysentery (which is easily curable)

you can drink from any source, but you can't take the water from any source as jars have been removed, I will reword my post to say "collect water" to remove any confusion. 

[Syphon583]

4 minutes ago, kryzzk said:

you can drink from any source, but you can't take the water from any source as jars have been removed, I will reword my post to say "collect water" to remove any confusion. 

Ah, that makes sense.

[kryzzk]

13 minutes ago, doughphunghus said:

I agree and am actually making a mod (yeah i know you are wanting this to be vanilla changes.... have hope! Enough people are complaining and they may make more changes. But for now you have to mod). to do this (dew collector gives murky water) But theres also also several other changes in it to make "water more challenging".  I have not decided about the heat property yet (ill probably keep it but lower the heat output... but i just heard today about the heat output change). Im on the fence about it still, but what i was working on had no heat output, i just raised "how long to get water from it" to be like 4x longer than it was so having heat output on that may be excessive

 

Anyway: maybe it will sorta be what you want, though in a mod.  I haven't finished and playtested it yet either so it may be "water is a lot harder", which is how i want it to be (personally). I hope to release it this weekend.

 

Also: i have a dew collector v2 (just collects dew faster) and a mini chem station "water purifier" in there... amongst other things. Sort if what you also mentioned (additional workstations/filters)

 

I don't like the way the heat map change was implemented, but I'm not sure how much I disagree with the Idea behind it hence the suggestion, after all, making water has always raised the heat map now it just makes less sense that it does.

[RipClaw]

6 hours ago, kryzzk said:

I don't like the way the heat map change was implemented, but I'm not sure how much I disagree with the Idea behind it hence the suggestion, after all, making water has always raised the heat map now it just makes less sense that it does.

The difference is that the heat has always increased only for a short time and not permanently. But if you empty the dew collectors regularly, they run permanently. In this respect, they are like a torch or a candle on the wall, but they increase the heat much more.

 

The developers and the moderators constantly emphasize that the dew collectors no longer generate heat when they are full, which does not really help.

 

[Riamus]

29 minutes ago, RipClaw said:

The difference is that the heat has always increased only for a short time and not permanently. But if you empty the dew collectors regularly, they run permanently. In this respect, they are like a torch or a candle on the wall, but they increase the heat much more.

 

The developers and the moderators constantly emphasize that the dew collectors no longer generate heat when they are full, which does not really help.

 

In my game tonight, I already had 3 screamers come by and I wasn't there all that long.  And I only have 6 dew collectors.  I did have 2 forges and a chem station in use but even so, they came far too quickly, imo.  The odd thing was that after that, I came back later and stayed at the base for over twice as long and no screamers showed up.

[RipClaw]

2 minutes ago, Riamus said:

In my game tonight, I already had 3 screamers come by and I wasn't there all that long.  And I only have 6 dew collectors.  I did have 2 forges and a chem station in use but even so, they came far too quickly, imo.  The odd thing was that after that, I came back later and stayed at the base for over twice as long and no screamers showed up.

As far as I know, when the heat reaches 100% there is always a chance that a screamer will spawn but it doesn't always happen. 

[meganoth]

6 hours ago, RipClaw said:

The difference is that the heat has always increased only for a short time and not permanently. But if you empty the dew collectors regularly, they run permanently. In this respect, they are like a torch or a candle on the wall, but they increase the heat much more.

 

The developers and the moderators constantly emphasize that the dew collectors no longer generate heat when they are full, which does not really help.

 

 

Please differentiate. I never said that and I don't think it is a relevant argument.

 

In my single player it actually happens that they stand around full for a long time, but at the same time in SP I also don't get any noticable streamer visits (actually something I want to complain about, there should be more).

 

Sling told me that in his experiment workbench heat stops at max 25%. Seems to be a safety mechanism. But that safety mechanism won't work with a bunch of dew collectors if that limit is per single dew collector. Because if it were say at 12% and you have 10 dew collectors then you would reach 100 before any individual collector reaches that limit

 

5 hours ago, Riamus said:

In my game tonight, I already had 3 screamers come by and I wasn't there all that long.  And I only have 6 dew collectors.  I did have 2 forges and a chem station in use but even so, they came far too quickly, imo.  The odd thing was that after that, I came back later and stayed at the base for over twice as long and no screamers showed up.

 

Were they separated or coming at the same time? In the latter case it could have been screamer spawning screamers.

 

In my co-op game we set up a round of spike traps around our base. With 7 dews, one campfire,forge and workbench. No screamers at all for 3 days, except one of us thinks he heard a screamer when driving away.

Edited June 30, 2023 by meganoth (see edit history)

[Rince]

6 hours ago, RipClaw said:

The difference is that the heat has always increased only for a short time and not permanently. But if you empty the dew collectors regularly, they run permanently. In this respect, they are like a torch or a candle on the wall, but they increase the heat much more.

 

The developers and the moderators constantly emphasize that the dew collectors no longer generate heat when they are full, which does not really help.

 

Much more? Didn't fataal said that a dew collector generate similar heat as two torches?

[RipClaw]

1 minute ago, Rince said:

Much more? Didn't fataal said that a dew collector generate similar heat as two torches?

Well, twice the heat generated by a torch is much more than what one torch generates. If I interpret the XML files correctly, the heat of a torch also dissipates more quickly.

 

3 of the dew collectors generate the same heat as a forge and the heat dissipates at the same rate. If you have, for example, 6 dew collectors in your base, that is the equivalent to 2 forges that run continuously until they are full.

 

[Rince]

1 minute ago, RipClaw said:

Well, twice the heat generated by a torch is much more than what one torch generates. If I interpret the XML files correctly, the heat of a torch also dissipates more quickly.

 

3 of the dew collectors generate the same heat as a forge and the heat dissipates at the same rate. If you have, for example, 6 dew collectors in your base, that is the equivalent to 2 forges that run continuously until they are full.

 

Is that much? Because being honest, I like to put torches in my bases, but usually use only one forge. And I never had many issues with screamers.

[theFlu]

25 minutes ago, meganoth said:

Sling told me that in his experiment workbench heat stops at max 25%. Seems to be a safety mechanism.

That description could just be part of the mechanism - every heat source also cools down over time, I think that system was somehow "simplifiedly" proportional; leading to a balance of some amount of heat for every station running 100%.

[RipClaw]

37 minutes ago, meganoth said:

Please differentiate. I never said that and I don't think it is a relevant argument.

Well, maybe I should have written that one moderator and one developer made this argument. More precisely SylenThunder and madmole.

 

I empty my dew collectors at least once a day. And because there are a lot of them, I often have screamers since the update.

It's not that I can't handle them, but these screamers are annoying. It will probably do some renovation work in my base to get rid of them.

 

9 minutes ago, Rince said:

Is that much? Because being honest, I like to put torches in my bases, but usually use only one forge. And I never had many issues with screamers.

A single forge is no problem. I think the minimum before screamers spawn are 4 forges or workstations running.

 

Edited June 30, 2023 by RipClaw (see edit history)

[Old Crow]

39 minutes ago, meganoth said:

 

I never said that and I don't think it is a relevant argument.

 

 

 

Didn't know you were the only moderator.

[meganoth]

3 hours ago, Old Crow said:

 

Didn't know you were the only moderator.

 

He said "all" which would have included me. And obviously RipClaw (👍) did understand what I was saying.

 

Edited June 30, 2023 by meganoth (see edit history)

[Gamida]

Maybe for dew collectors they could add slots like the tool slots in benches and forges.
The slots would allow 1,2 or 3 filters.
With 1 filter, no heat(activity) increase. Each slot holds 1 jars per day.
With 2 filters, heat(activity) increases to same as one forge. Each slot holds 2 jars per day.
With 3 filters, heat(activity) increases to same as two forges. Each slot holds 3 jars per day.

or

They could add a fuel slot.
Without using fuel it creates the 3 jars per day and no heat(activity) increase.
With fuel it uses the heat(activity) increase but increases the speed or the amount of water per day. Dealers (TFP) choice.

Just spitballing ideas here to see if anything sticks.
My suggestions may have hidden problems I don't see as of now.

[Riamus]

3 hours ago, meganoth said:

Were they separated or coming at the same time? In the latter case it could have been screamer spawning screamers.

One did spawn the second but the third was a new one as I made sure everything was dead from the first 2.  If they don't spawn in more than once per 30 minute real time, I'd be okay with it.  If they spawn in like I'm mining iron, then it is an annoyance as it constantly stops me from doing whatever I'm trying to do.  I haven't given it enough time yet to get an average time for the to spawn.  But considering this is only 6 dew collectors, I can't imagine how bad it would be for those who have a lot more.  You would almost be required to move them somewhere away from your base just to get anything done.

[kryzzk]

14 hours ago, RipClaw said:

The difference is that the heat has always increased only for a short time and not permanently. But if you empty the dew collectors regularly, they run permanently. In this respect, they are like a torch or a candle on the wall, but they increase the heat much more.

 

The developers and the moderators constantly emphasize that the dew collectors no longer generate heat when they are full, which does not really help.

 

Yes I'm aware, hence the reason I said, "I don't like the way it was implemented" but I do understand they were trying to add the "heat" back to making water hence the part where I said "I'm not sure how much I disagree with the Idea behind it".

 

But thanks for the input. 

Edited June 30, 2023 by kryzzk (see edit history)

[wclem1974]

I don't understand why they are so worried about us having water. There are so many more elements that need addressed. It is cheap to have screamers spawn just to make water more of an annoying chore. 

 

Screamers don't spawn when we grow corn, or is that next? Maybe implement some NPCs, more and varied quests or any number of other things to add length and challenge. 

 

I never heard a single person complain about water till alpha 21. If someone didn't like being able to make bottles then they should just not make them. Instead we all pay for it. 

[kryzzk]

1 minute ago, wclem1974 said:

I don't understand why they are so worried about us having water. There are so many more elements that need addressed. It is cheap to have screamers spawn just to make water more of an annoying chore. 

 

Screamers don't spawn when we grow corn, or is that next? Maybe implement some NPCs, more and varied quests or any number of other things to add length and challenge. 

 

I never heard a single person complain about water till alpha 21. If someone didn't like being able to make bottles then they should just not make them. Instead we all pay for it. 

I agree, and the extra bottles were a great source of glass for my forge. 

[wclem1974]

Thank you, too often my directness gets blasted because I don't fanboy

[Old Crow]

8 hours ago, meganoth said:

 

He said "all" which would have included me. And obviously RipClaw (👍) did understand what I was saying.

 

 

...Except he didn't say "all," but feel free to keep lying.

[meganoth]

4 hours ago, Old Crow said:

 

...Except he didn't say "all," but feel free to keep lying.

 

Oh, you are right, I misremembered. He said "The developers and the moderators constantly ...".

 

As I and Sylen were the only ones active and posting in the two active threads about this topic lately and he used plural I felt perfectly included in that statement. Even if we assume that the message can't be really including all devs and mods as there were lots of devs and mods not posting at all it would at least imply all devs and mods that posted or were active, right?

 

Well,  how is your interpretation of that sentence above and why it would not refer to me as well. Why would someone reading this forum and reading bits and pieces know I am not included?

 

Edited July 1, 2023 by meganoth (see edit history)