Multiplayer Sad State of Affairs

[Howlune]

Hello. No doubt some of you have seen some of my posts before and see where this is likely going, but I feel it's needed now more than ever before.
20.4 feels like the final nail in the coffin for many of us who host larger multiplayer servers. Most of us don't know the reasons why, but the game has never been more unstable than now. Yes, yes... I get it, the game is built for 8 player co-op. And despite it saying things like "Online PVP" on the store page, the fine print of that supposedly refers to organized fights on these small 8 player servers... not what we had in mind. While I think that's a bit misleading, this is not the crux of my argument.

Not long ago, even as recent as 19.2, average servers could host up to 50 players with little issue. 19.3 came, and knocked that down to about 35. 20.4 came, and for whatever reason, it feels like anything above 16 is muddy waters. The new server filters are atrocious and I haven't heard of anyone liking them. I do see the benefit in them, especially for showing servers right away that used to take a while to show up... but man is it a bad look when searching for any region always shows the first 6 as the same chinese servers (using a borderline illegal bypass of steam authentication servers to get around this game's terrible netcode i might add. Yes, Pimps. You'll see all these servers at the top of the list use something called NAIWAZI serverkit. It'd be in your best interest to look into that).

For a while, I had been running one of the more successful of these servers, and I keep in contact with the other server owners with similar size population.. and they feel the same. I understand the Pimps don't want to enter an arms race with hackers. I'm not talking about this. There's a lot of modders in this community and we have been doing fine on our own in that regard. Many people want to play this game in other ways besides singleplayer and coop. We all know there is no real end-game yet, and involving more players in the mix always extends playtime despite that. We love the game, and we see the potential it has... but we feel like the butt of every joke on these forums and even some of the bigger discords for the game. It feels like if you don't play singleplayer, casual coop or only make POIs/Pixel art you're treated as some kind of impostor here.

I'm hanging up my coat and calling it quits. Several others are doing the same. We can't host our servers on a game that is fighting us every minute we try to. The netcode is so horrible, there is so much unnecessary information the game shares between players that it makes it unplayable in too many cases. Even the netpackages that get sent to every player that determine player movement? They're PREDICTIVE. What do I mean by this? You ever see other players on MP rubberband really bad? Well instead of the game actually trying to update netpackages on their actual positions, it *predicts* where they are moving instead. Server somewhat laggy? That guy outside of the building might be inside the building on his screen, or somewhere else... the game is trying to predict where instead of actually showing where.

Memory leaks are horrendous. You can't keep these servers online for more than 2 hours without things becoming unplayable and needing a restart. Also, try tap firing an auger constantly instead of holding mouse down... you'll find that eventually, firing any weapon will make anyone in that area/chunk get like 1 fps because of the sequenced audio on the auger being interrupted and going into memory. But hey, we're fine with this stuff. We can work around it. What we can't work around and can only try our best to lessen is the aformentioned netcode issues.

The last time I had posted threads on this, someone was able to get Madmole himself to speak on it... and he referenced last January that they were getting some engineers in to hopefully "let us enjoy big servers again"... but there has been effectively no further word on this.

Thread in question:

I am sad I have to leave the game I love behind for the sake of my own sanity. I know it's a futile effort to please everyone, but this effects a pretty big portion of the player base who I know stay around much longer than your average person who only decides to boot up the game for a while after a new update happens.
I am not trying to speak down to anyone's playstyle, but I feel mocked or ridiculed when I bring these things up in more public spaces for this game, such as these forums. No, I am not asking for PUBG, Rust, or whatever else is easiest to discard my argument with.. I am asking for 7 Days to Die. Players are what make a game, please let us play with more of them at once.

[knusper]

I could not agree more. This forum has for years been an echo chamber for certain players. Words like pvp or Multiplayer would get you banned or your posts never showed up. 9000 hours I played this game 90% on "big" server 25+ ppl. And the game is great it is infuriating to see how much potential there is. But multiplayer is not doable even 8 player MP is laging right now.... 8!! Players ....I played Command and Conquer in 1995 with 8 players.

I for example play from japan a region where the game lost over night 7 servers with 25+ players,  one went back a beta and no one ever will post here because of the language barrier.

And stop obsessing over PvP "insert Moderators name here".......Dont try and steer the discussion into the CO-OP corner and tell us well "ur not supposed to play like this" .

Then disable Servers and say there is No Multiplayer beyond 8 players because not a single person i know (again I am speaking for a certain grp of players) bought this game because they wanted to play with 7 others. And the strange thing is the hostility for posts like this are getting for just pointing things out.

 

Conclusion,  just tell everyone to get lost if they want to play with more then 8 because right now its unplayable. Or get to work and get @%$# done.

Oh and of course i played GDI 🤣

Edited April 29, 2022 by knusper (see edit history)

[TheHensch]

I honestly don't remember worse updates than the entire a20 series.  I feel like the game is going back in time implementing such useless things as the "new" server browser.  What a joke.  Please focus on making the game run better instead of adding features no one has asked for and posting tweets no one cares about.

 

[Roland]

@Howlune Sorry your expectations for the game have not yet materialized. I can't say for sure or not if they will or won't materialize in the future. I can confirm that someone was hired to work on the netcode specifically though I don't know the progress on that. If your whole love of 7 Days to Die is a large server of people playing competitively against each other/ teams then it probably is best at this point to wait and see. Since you do have a love for the game or at least a love for what you always hoped the game could be, why not wait to see if it ever reaches that expectation and if it does you can come back to it at that point. As far as I know, the devs still plan to polish up issues that plague PvP gameplay at some point.

 

 

20 minutes ago, TheHensch said:

I honestly don't remember worse updates than the entire a20 series.  I feel like the game is going back in time implementing such useless things as the "new" server browser.  What a joke.

 

The opportunity came up for the developers to get their game included in Microsoft Game Pass and that has complicated some things and because of the additional platform caused some issues and bugs and setbacks with allowing all the new players on Game Pass to be included in the server lists with everyone else. Just like anything, since the game is a work in progress, the first iteration isn't always the best. I'm sure they will improve the server lists but they needed to get something implemented initially that would allow them to include all the new players accessing the game through Game Pass rather than Steam.

[Matt115]

8 minutes ago, Roland said:

Just like anything, since the game is a work in progress, the first iteration isn't always the best. 

I agree with that. No ironic or something like that - big changes can broke  things in game  - few games had this problem in open tests. So i just hope it will be fixed somehow

[Heliox]

There is no heart for 8+ pvp, and it will not change
We are annoying people abusing the game, its not ment for us and it never was, and we knew that going into hosting/modding pvp

Everything funpimps need to do is removing the "Online-PVP" tag, and its done

I hope for the better, but even my endless hope is waning for this game currently

Well, see you all on the next stable! We got new doors! 🙂

[Matt115]

2 minutes ago, Heliox said:

There is no heart for 8+ pvp, and it will not change
We are annoying people abusing the game, its not ment for us and it never was, and we knew that going into hosting/modding pvp

Everything funpimps need to do is removing the "Online-PVP" tag, and its done

I hope for the better, but even my endless hope is waning for this game currently

Well, see you all on the next stable! We got new doors! 🙂

Well l4d2 is 8 players PVP too  so valve should remove PVP tag too?

 

[Heliox]

Lol, what a joke reply. Are you trolling?

[Matt115]

8 minutes ago, Heliox said:

Lol, what a joke reply. Are you trolling?

No but yep it was joke about valve. 7DTD officaly is supporting 8 max  players. More players are not offical supported; 

Servers can be hosted by yourself, as well as by a server hosting company. Servers officially only support up to 8 people as of A19, but some servers run upwards of 20-30 players. These servers also incur more play-ability issues though, because of the high number of players.  

 

Source: Server - Official 7 Days to Die Wiki (fandom.com)

So - if servers support 8 players - it's correct anwer. 7DTD never was pretting to be conan exile or rust in voxel world.  PVP mode don't need to have dunno 32 players, Some game have 2 players , some of them have 32 players and some of them have 250. So tag is correct

 

[Heliox]

Nice de-railing on the topic. I already heard thats the way it goes here in this forum.

[Howlune]

1 hour ago, Roland said:

@Howlune Sorry your expectations for the game have not yet materialized. I can't say for sure or not if they will or won't materialize in the future. I can confirm that someone was hired to work on the netcode specifically though I don't know the progress on that. If your whole love of 7 Days to Die is a large server of people playing competitively against each other/ teams then it probably is best at this point to wait and see. Since you do have a love for the game or at least a love for what you always hoped the game could be, why not wait to see if it ever reaches that expectation and if it does you can come back to it at that point. As far as I know, the devs still plan to polish up issues that plague PvP gameplay at some point.

 

 

 

The opportunity came up for the developers to get their game included in Microsoft Game Pass and that has complicated some things and because of the additional platform caused some issues and bugs and setbacks with allowing all the new players on Game Pass to be included in the server lists with everyone else. Just like anything, since the game is a work in progress, the first iteration isn't always the best. I'm sure they will improve the server lists but they needed to get something implemented initially that would allow them to include all the new players accessing the game through Game Pass rather than Steam.

Thank you for the more understanding reply. I haven't deleted my server's discord for a reason, I'm not one to lose hope so easily. I do consider myself an optimist and will wait for any news on netcode improvement before I try again, but I just worry how many years it'll be if not at all to an extent. I hear they have someone working on the netcode from your post, but of course I fear about what's considered "fixed" or "fixed enough". I wish people wouldn't mention PVP in this, I should have not mentioned PVP. This is simply about high pop in general. Including high pop PVE servers. I know you told me before that pimps are aware of what they are missing by not putting attention on it. For the most part, I think it's fair given their workload, and that they are focusing on getting the game finished content wise before they divert attention to issues such as this.
I know I have a lot of threads on here talking on the same subject, and I can honestly say this will be my last. I'll just continue to hope for the future where we can all enjoy this game on a bit bigger scale.

[Heliox]

The 5 stages of grief: Congrats howlune you now have reached "bargaining"

[Grandpa Minion]

Its no secret alloc mod has issues ... big time issues. When a20 came out that was the first thing i noticed was bugs coming from alloc mod. I personally have wondered why alloc hasn't updated his mod? I believe it has alot to do with alot of the network problems people are having on servers. You guys keep talking about TFP hiring someone for netcode imo they should start with asking alloc to fixed his mod that in itself would solve alot of issues. 

[RyanX]

Part of the frustration with the crowd who love the multiplayer and/or PvP servers is that when we purchased the game, you could have either of those things, albeit they still did not run optimally.  As time has progressed, these qualities about the game have regressed.  When I purchased the game it was like "Well, these issues need improvement, but they have the makings of something truly great here."  The only reason I even continued to play was because playing on a server with a group of regulars (read: 30 or so others, sometimes more) was a blast (up until shortly after alpha 20 released).  I have almost 4,000 hours and ALL of these hours are in larger PvE and PvP servers.  The multiplayer is the only reason I bought the game in the first place.  I've certainly received my money's worth, but....

 

So you can see the disappointment we face, especially with the state of video games and entertainment in general right now.  Nobody is putting anything new out that scratches the itch that we thought 7D2D was bringing to the table.  Instead, it's just more of the same.  And it's even to the point now that these people have been pushed out.

 

Now that the server browser has been borked, it almost seems intentional.  It makes it easier to say "there isn't much of a demand for the larger multiplayer servers."  Well of COURSE nobody wants to play multiplayer anymore.  Look at what's been done to it.

Edited April 30, 2022 by RyanX (see edit history)

[doughphunghus]

Personally, as a random person who joins PVP occasionally (never hardcore, if it’s mentioned) there are 2 things that always make me quit playing PVP, because I always forget that:

1. A lot of PVP servers don’t have “land claim that makes your base invincible to other players (they cannot destroy blocks)

2. People can use underground “hacks” to see under the map.

 

For #1, the only “fix” I feel is necessary is that the default setting for a land claim is “claimed land is invincible”, and then a flag somewhere to allow it to be tuned to act like it it today (increases player block hardness to attack). Having it as default just feels like a better option as turning this off should be an advertised setting. There are some servers where “you can’t even enter the land l claim area” (like a base is a closed trader) and that’s a good solution (as a default setting) but a little annoying as you run near bases and get teleported. In every PVP game I’ve played (with non invincible bases) I come back after 1 real time day and my base is broken into and looted because I don’t have a team watching it and I have a job so I can’t be on 24x7 to protect it.

 

for #2, I’ve heard a fix and it’s “when you clip underground, just make it black space.”. I feel this is needed because it’s impossible to make an underground base and stay hidden. Currently you can not put down a land claim (as your base can be detected with one, by others holding a land claim and just moving around and seeing it turn red) and be underground with a cool setup and … nope, attacked and gutted as someone just clipped underground and found the base( Or is just an admin cheating or helping others cheat…. But that’s unfixable).

 

If these 2 were done I think PVP would at least be a bit more playable and exciting as you would feel:

A. Your base/stuff could be protected (on a server not purposefully turning off base protection) as long as you build carefully and remember to lock the doors!

B. On non-base protected servers, you at least can make a base that’s not super easy to find. So Not many people are going to find your “single hole in the ground” base by unless you’re followed.

 

note: I’m aware I’m joining games without paying someone and I know likely if I do pay I might get the base perk I’m requesting. If nothing else maybe it would be nice to be able to see/access more server settings before joining so you would know what you’re getting into in a non “pay to play” server even though yes that’s not too hard to figure out once you’re in. It’s just a general QOL thing.

 

note 2: maybe land claims could have an “outer area” of block hardness protection from zeds/players and an “inner layer” that’s invincible to players only. Very small and possibly moveable in the claim area… maybe 5x5 (so if walled in and untouchable the useable area inside is 3x3, enough for a workstation and a ladder to another level for more protected storage/workstations…this way zeds and people can tear your base up a bit but can’t take everything if you’ve walled everything you have in the protected “column” part

Edited April 30, 2022 by doughphunghus (see edit history)

[Howlune]

4 hours ago, doughphunghus said:

Personally, as a random person who joins PVP occasionally (never hardcore, if it’s mentioned) there are 2 things that always make me quit playing PVP, because I always forget that:

1. A lot of PVP servers don’t have “land claim that makes your base invincible to other players (they cannot destroy blocks)

2. People can use underground “hacks” to see under the map.

 

For #1, the only “fix” I feel is necessary is that the default setting for a land claim is “claimed land is invincible”, and then a flag somewhere to allow it to be tuned to act like it it today (increases player block hardness to attack). Having it as default just feels like a better option as turning this off should be an advertised setting. There are some servers where “you can’t even enter the land l claim area” (like a base is a closed trader) and that’s a good solution (as a default setting) but a little annoying as you run near bases and get teleported. In every PVP game I’ve played (with non invincible bases) I come back after 1 real time day and my base is broken into and looted because I don’t have a team watching it and I have a job so I can’t be on 24x7 to protect it.

 

for #2, I’ve heard a fix and it’s “when you clip underground, just make it black space.”. I feel this is needed because it’s impossible to make an underground base and stay hidden. Currently you can not put down a land claim (as your base can be detected with one, by others holding a land claim and just moving around and seeing it turn red) and be underground with a cool setup and … nope, attacked and gutted as someone just clipped underground and found the base( Or is just an admin cheating or helping others cheat…. But that’s unfixable).

 

If these 2 were done I think PVP would at least be a bit more playable and exciting as you would feel:

A. Your base/stuff could be protected (on a server not purposefully turning off base protection) as long as you build carefully and remember to lock the doors!

B. On non-base protected servers, you at least can make a base that’s not super easy to find. So Not many people are going to find your “single hole in the ground” base by unless you’re followed.

 

note: I’m aware I’m joining games without paying someone and I know likely if I do pay I might get the base perk I’m requesting. If nothing else maybe it would be nice to be able to see/access more server settings before joining so you would know what you’re getting into in a non “pay to play” server even though yes that’s not too hard to figure out once you’re in. It’s just a general QOL thing.

 

note 2: maybe land claims could have an “outer area” of block hardness protection from zeds/players and an “inner layer” that’s invincible to players only. Very small and possibly moveable in the claim area… maybe 5x5 (so if walled in and untouchable the useable area inside is 3x3, enough for a workstation and a ladder to another level for more protected storage/workstations…this way zeds and people can tear your base up a bit but can’t take everything if you’ve walled everything you have in the protected “column” part

These are all concerns and issues that server owners and modders have been able to work around on their own. I would not exactly consider this relevant to a conversation in which the primary culprit nearly all of us are targeting is the netcode. As I have said before, cheaters/hackers/exploiters are not something the devs need to focus on... it would be nice, sure, but if it takes away from getting the game finished first or making the netcode better... the community has been able to combat a lot of this on their own. I'd say improvements you're mentioning would maybe be good to look into in the future, after they have for the most part finished their to do list.

17 hours ago, Heliox said:

The 5 stages of grief: Congrats howlune you now have reached "bargaining"

I still believe in this game. I would never consider myself bending knee to higher ups, but I try to be realistic here... it's the only way you can get people to listen to your concerns.

[knusper]

On 4/30/2022 at 9:22 AM, Matt115 said:

Well l4d2 is 8 players PVP too  so valve should remove PVP tag too?

 

l4d2 has a 100 times smaller maps and its a shooter next example is counter strike 5vs5? A 8k map can EASY handle 30 players and they wont run into each other for hours. Not even counting the fact that you can be underground in 7dtd.

Edited May 2, 2022 by knusper (see edit history)

[Matt115]

6 hours ago, knusper said:

l4d2 has a 100 times smaller maps and its a shooter next example is counter strike 5vs5? A 8k map can EASY handle 30 players and they wont run into each other for hours. Not even counting the fact that you can be underground in 7dtd.

And moders create in l4d2 8VS8 mods too. well 7dtd is more about playing with few friends that play with more number players. They decided to focus on PVE not on PVP. so that's why number of 8 is perfects - max number of npc is 64 = max number of players 8 so 64:8=8 npc per player. You say it could be 30?  no. 64:32 = 2 npc per player = small number right? So too kep high number of zombie (main enemy) you have to reduce max number of players = 8 players is good enough

[Obsessive Compulsive]

One of the big issues at this point on a game development cycle and engineering stand point is that you can not retroactively fix old buggy base code without breaking the game. Things that are calling on base functions and classes will likely face issues or need recoding as well. Most coders would prefer to start from scratch at that point. That is why Rust stopped development, changed engines and redid everything. They are not going to do that with this title so unfortunately we are stuck dealing with whatever they can reasonably optimize. Netcode is a huuuuge problem with absurd levels of data passed back and forth for no reason and both client and server process/calculate things while not always sharing, nor correcting data properly between each other. Some things trigger or fire off far too often and others not enough causing combinations of chop/lag/potential for duping.

The net packages need proper encryption to protect them. This was already brought up with them but has not been properly handled as of yet.

Some simple call checks where the server requests something from the client, the client responds. Not where the client randomly sends data at a whim and the server has no idea if its legit or not.

Creative menu is still client side and exposed. That should have been fixed in alpha 4. A simple command process check to open the ui window would work. A server check for their permission status would work. As it stands, clients just tweak their own code to not run any check and instead give it the okay, so the window opens. When they bring in items to their inventory, we have no way to know where the item came from, the source, is it from creative menu. Was it spawned by the spawn menu. Did they craft it.

To fix this stuff, some design and application engineering should have gone in to it before the code got this far. Going back now means a high chance of breaking it.

That is the entire issue with their approach. They want to go back to multiplayer later and fix stuff they have been ignoring. It will be a sad affair when they realize the mess they have created which may not be readily fixed. GTA is a great example of this. They focus solely on solo player development. When crunch time came and release dates were coming due, they had to push back and delay over and over because the multiplayer was a mess. The amount of short cuts they took in the end is evident in the game play, server filters, bugs, lack of balance.

We are seeing the same thing here. If multiplayer is not a focus from the start, it should just be removed. You don't design a single player game and then just squeeze in multi. As it stands, the dedicated server is technically a client that does not load the visual process yet responds and operates very much the same. It is no wonder servers run like garbage. They are not truly dedicate servers nor is the game coded for it

[Fanatical_Meat]

Sigh I hate topics like this……

First the game isn’t designed nor ever sold to support 30/40/50 player plus servers.

Second even though it is in alpha don’t you think it’s getting kind of old? Do you really expect 50 people to play on the same damn server FOREVER?
Third when you get tired of playing the game or it has lost its fun nobody gives a crap about a long winded good bye. Nobody cares.

Fourth sounds like you had hundreds maybe thousands of hours of entertainment for what are $20 spent, that’s an INCREDIBLE value.

[knusper]

10 minutes ago, Fanatical_Meat said:

First the game isn’t designed nor ever sold to support 30/40/50 player plus servers.

It doesnt even run with 8 smooth right now......see thats the problem. The whole netcode is trash it worked in the past but little by little its getting worse. Why keep ppl saying the game never sold for Multiplayer ? do you really need to see the Kickstarter? it even mentioned PvP. But thats not the point. The point is the netcode is so bad that even 8 ppl cant have a hordenight on a dedicated server without the whole thing exploding. Even with 8 ppl chunks get corrupted regular ...server crashes etc pp. Yes these problems happen more often the more players you have but if you keep repeating " its made for 8 Players stop complaining" you miss the problem which is that the netcode of this game is so bad that if it doesnt change sooner or later there wont be any multiplayer at all. What bull do i have to read then? The game is made for CO OP only?

[P3rf3ctVZer0]

On 4/29/2022 at 3:34 PM, Howlune said:

Hello. No doubt some of you have seen some of my posts before and see where this is likely going, but I feel it's needed now more than ever before.
20.4 feels like the final nail in the coffin for many of us who host larger multiplayer servers. Most of us don't know the reasons why, but the game has never been more unstable than now. Yes, yes... I get it, the game is built for 8 player co-op. And despite it saying things like "Online PVP" on the store page, the fine print of that supposedly refers to organized fights on these small 8 player servers... not what we had in mind. While I think that's a bit misleading, this is not the crux of my argument.

Not long ago, even as recent as 19.2, average servers could host up to 50 players with little issue. 19.3 came, and knocked that down to about 35. 20.4 came, and for whatever reason, it feels like anything above 16 is muddy waters. The new server filters are atrocious and I haven't heard of anyone liking them. I do see the benefit in them, especially for showing servers right away that used to take a while to show up... but man is it a bad look when searching for any region always shows the first 6 as the same chinese servers (using a borderline illegal bypass of steam authentication servers to get around this game's terrible netcode i might add. Yes, Pimps. You'll see all these servers at the top of the list use something called NAIWAZI serverkit. It'd be in your best interest to look into that).

For a while, I had been running one of the more successful of these servers, and I keep in contact with the other server owners with similar size population.. and they feel the same. I understand the Pimps don't want to enter an arms race with hackers. I'm not talking about this. There's a lot of modders in this community and we have been doing fine on our own in that regard. Many people want to play this game in other ways besides singleplayer and coop. We all know there is no real end-game yet, and involving more players in the mix always extends playtime despite that. We love the game, and we see the potential it has... but we feel like the butt of every joke on these forums and even some of the bigger discords for the game. It feels like if you don't play singleplayer, casual coop or only make POIs/Pixel art you're treated as some kind of impostor here.

I'm hanging up my coat and calling it quits. Several others are doing the same. We can't host our servers on a game that is fighting us every minute we try to. The netcode is so horrible, there is so much unnecessary information the game shares between players that it makes it unplayable in too many cases. Even the netpackages that get sent to every player that determine player movement? They're PREDICTIVE. What do I mean by this? You ever see other players on MP rubberband really bad? Well instead of the game actually trying to update netpackages on their actual positions, it *predicts* where they are moving instead. Server somewhat laggy? That guy outside of the building might be inside the building on his screen, or somewhere else... the game is trying to predict where instead of actually showing where.

Memory leaks are horrendous. You can't keep these servers online for more than 2 hours without things becoming unplayable and needing a restart. Also, try tap firing an auger constantly instead of holding mouse down... you'll find that eventually, firing any weapon will make anyone in that area/chunk get like 1 fps because of the sequenced audio on the auger being interrupted and going into memory. But hey, we're fine with this stuff. We can work around it. What we can't work around and can only try our best to lessen is the aformentioned netcode issues.

The last time I had posted threads on this, someone was able to get Madmole himself to speak on it... and he referenced last January that they were getting some engineers in to hopefully "let us enjoy big servers again"... but there has been effectively no further word on this.

Thread in question:

I am sad I have to leave the game I love behind for the sake of my own sanity. I know it's a futile effort to please everyone, but this effects a pretty big portion of the player base who I know stay around much longer than your average person who only decides to boot up the game for a while after a new update happens.
I am not trying to speak down to anyone's playstyle, but I feel mocked or ridiculed when I bring these things up in more public spaces for this game, such as these forums. No, I am not asking for PUBG, Rust, or whatever else is easiest to discard my argument with.. I am asking for 7 Days to Die. Players are what make a game, please let us play with more of them at once.

you realize you can just revert your server right? Do a19.6 if you are mad. More importantly everyone knows a20.4 is definitely broken. Fun fact you can go drop back to a20.3 and have no lag and no mod changes. I feel like you are just ranting to rant which I am frustrated with a20.4 too but I would be livid if they didn't allow me to revert - then I would have no mercy to the amount of flames I would spew. The fact is; it is alpha and it will break.

[Fanatical_Meat]

56 minutes ago, knusper said:

It doesnt even run with 8 smooth right now......see thats the problem. The whole netcode is trash it worked in the past but little by little its getting worse. Why keep ppl saying the game never sold for Multiplayer ? do you really need to see the Kickstarter? it even mentioned PvP. But thats not the point. The point is the netcode is so bad that even 8 ppl cant have a hordenight on a dedicated server without the whole thing exploding. Even with 8 ppl chunks get corrupted regular ...server crashes etc pp. Yes these problems happen more often the more players you have but if you keep repeating " its made for 8 Players stop complaining" you miss the problem which is that the netcode of this game is so bad that if it doesnt change sooner or later there wont be any multiplayer at all. What bull do i have to read then? The game is made for CO OP only?

Works okay with five for me. However I agree the horde nights could use a performance bump.

[knusper]

9 hours ago, P3rf3ctVZer0 said:

you realize you can just revert your server right? Do a19.6 if you are mad. More importantly everyone knows a20.4 is definitely broken. Fun fact you can go drop back to a20.3 and have no lag and no mod changes. I feel like you are just ranting to rant which I am frustrated with a20.4 too but I would be livid if they didn't allow me to revert - then I would have no mercy to the amount of flames I would spew. The fact is; it is alpha and it will break.

Well i guess thats it then...pack ur things bois, any problems? just revert back. It is exactly the opposite of good ....You know when ppl startet saying netcode is "@%$#" ? 2016/17 I wish ppl would have not said the same thing back then (ANYTHING and ppl would write stop being mad its alpha ) Also reverting back to when? the whole 20x Cycle is riddled with game breaking bugs (stability bug was so bad even solo ur base would crumble if you didnt recalced the chunk) and yes I do know its alpha but there needs to be SERIOUS housekeeping being done at the code base because it looks like the foundation is crumbling. And I wish ppl would stop writing this being mad @%$#..critique is not being mad its a good thing....it helps pointing out mistakes.

[Pernicious]

3 minutes ago, knusper said:

And I wish ppl would stop writing this being mad @%$#..critique is not being mad its a good thing....it helps pointing out mistakes.

 

Submitting replicatable bug reports helps pointing out mistakes.

 

Making generic critical comments like the netcode is trash, and comparing a real time strategy game with a couple hundred units to a first person shooter with tens of thousands of entities and blocks needing stability checks doesn't help improve the game.