Diffrerent capacities for identical weapons?

[BrokenPaw]

I have two (as far as I can tell) absolutely identical M60 machine guns (Level 6, black dye, Bipod, 4x Scope, Rad Remover, Silencer).

 

One of them has a max magazine capacity of 65 rounds, and one has a max of 61 rounds. 

 

It's not a big deal, but it's weird, so I was wondering whether anyone else has seen a similar thing, or if there's something I'm missing that might be affecting the capacity of one of them.

 

A20.3(b3), for what it's worth.

[JCrook1028]

Stats are random. Working as Intended. Damage varies also.

[Evil_Geoff]

👆  What he said.

Just wait until you find a Tier 5, that does less damage but has a larger magazine capacity, or more range (or both).  Or more damage and durability.  Or any combination of better stats than the T6 M60 you have.  Random stats are random.  At least within the minimum/maximum range the game sets.

[Whiteshark68]

every tool and weapon in the game as far as i know has a range of -15% to +15% in the stats

[katarynna]

6 hours ago, Whiteshark68 said:

every tool and weapon in the game as far as i know has a range of -15% to +15% in the stats

Except t0 stuff. The primitive tools and weapons still have set stats with no variation or randomness.

 

Every q3 stone ax is identical.

[pApA^LeGBa]

That randomness needs to be somehow fixed. Random stats, yeah sure, no problem. But a T5 item beeing significantly better than a T6 item is just a pain in the b tbh.

[Matt115]

4 hours ago, pApA^LeGBa said:

That randomness needs to be somehow fixed. Random stats, yeah sure, no problem. But a T5 item beeing significantly better than a T6 item is just a pain in the b tbh.

Well - this depends what you mean better- for someone gun with bigger dmg is better that gun with bigger accuracy

[pApA^LeGBa]

@Matt115 I am talking about the same item beeing worse as T6. Aka a T5 SMG beeing better in stats than a T6 SMG. That shouldn´t happen. 

[Matt115]

33 minutes ago, pApA^LeGBa said:

@Matt115 I am talking about the same item beeing worse as T6. Aka a T5 SMG beeing better in stats than a T6 SMG. That shouldn´t happen. 

every stats or 1 - 2 is better? 

[pApA^LeGBa]

Yeah. That´s better than what can happen right now. Having just that small 1 or 2  plus is better than having worse stats as the same item with lower quality.

 

I mean unless you like the gambling factor and are happy when the T6 SMG you finally looted is worse than the T5 SMG you already have.

[theFlu]

1 hour ago, Matt115 said:

every stats or 1 - 2 is better? 

If this is you asking if the stats are completely random, or somehow balanced out; they seem completely random. In other words, you can get a high roll on every stat and a low roll on every stat, making it possible for a Q6 being worse in every way than a Q5.

[Matt115]

55 minutes ago, theFlu said:

If this is you asking if the stats are completely random, or somehow balanced out; they seem completely random. In other words, you can get a high roll on every stat and a low roll on every stat, making it possible for a Q6 being worse in every way than a Q5.

this is so stupid. well - Q6 need to be buffed to eliminate this problem

[Sal]

The problem is the highest variation for lower tier weapons overlaps too much with the lowest variation of higher tiers, and that doesn't really make any sense IMO.

I personally don't have a problem with having random stats in general but the lowest probable stats on a higher tier weapon should still be higher than the highest possible on a lower tier. Even if it's just by few.
 

I also think random stats should only be for weapons found, earned, or bought, while the stats on crafted weapons should be higher than the highest possible found. With the exception of T6 ofcourse . I think this would encourage more players to unlock and craft their own. I know I rarely ever do.
 

Couldn't this be done by having a max base set for each effect for each tier?  Something like this for example?
 

M60 Max Ammo
T1: 25-30
T2: 35-40 (43 if crafted)
T3: 45-50 (53 if crafted)
T4: 55-60 (63 if crafted)
T5: 65-70 (73 if crafted)
T6: 75-80
 

 

[theFlu]

2 hours ago, Sal said:

The problem is the highest variation for lower tier weapons overlaps too much with the lowest variation of higher tiers, and that doesn't really make any sense IMO.

That's a bit of a tough nut to crack though. If you want a significant variance within a Quality, but no overlap, your overall increase will be 5x "something significant". This is then made worse by several tiers of weapon type (pipe, ak, tac, m60) - these should improve somehow as well.

 

With your example within one tier of weapon, you've gone 3x the starting value... that's a lot. But the difference between 75 and 80 at the max end is already kinda pointless. Wouldn't factor into my decision at all - unless everything else was equal of course.

 

The randomness of the stats and the random quality feel a bit conflicting; mostly because they're essentially filling the same role. The only distinct thing is the amount of mod slots; just randomize that as well and just hide the quality from the UI, so there still ARE better and worse weapons, but the conflict between qualities isn't visible anymore. Either a weapon is better or not.

[Sal]

9 hours ago, theFlu said:

The randomness of the stats and the random quality feel a bit conflicting; mostly because they're essentially filling the same role. The only distinct thing is the amount of mod slots; just randomize that as well and just hide the quality from the UI, so there still ARE better and worse weapons, but the conflict between qualities isn't visible anymore. Either a weapon is better or not.

That's a good idea too.  Just remove the weapon tier system altogether and there wouldn't be anymore confusion.  If you have an AK and find another one then simply compare the stats.....if it's better, it's better. If not, it's not.

[Boidster]

6 hours ago, Sal said:

Just remove the weapon tier system altogether

 

Okay on three. One. Two. THREE.

 

Just remove the weapon tier system

 

But srsly, you'd still need something like the tier system to allow for progression. But it could be hidden from the user.

[theFlu]

3 minutes ago, Boidster said:

But srsly, you'd still need something like the tier system to allow for progression. But it could be hidden from the user.

Isn't the thingy he quoted a draft of exactly that .. I mean, that's what I was going for?

[Boidster]

Just now, theFlu said:

Isn't the thingy he quoted a draft of exactly that .. I mean, that's what I was going for?

 

Yes. I was reinforcing your point while trying to gently explain why "just remove the tier system" probably wouldn't work. Sorry for not @-ing you for credit.

[theFlu]

1 minute ago, Boidster said:

Sorry for not @-ing you for credit.

Heh, not an issue of credit; at all. I just assume he did understand what I wrote and merely shorthanded the suggestion as "just remove it"; which would make your take sound a little unfair.

 

I'm having a weird day though, so ..

[Sal]

4 hours ago, theFlu said:

Heh, not an issue of credit; at all. I just assume he did understand what I wrote and merely shorthanded the suggestion as "just remove it"; which would make your take sound a little unfair.

 

I'm having a weird day though, so ..

 

And you would right on this. I understood it just fine. But I'm glad you got it.

 

 

5 hours ago, Boidster said:

 

Okay on three. One. Two. THREE.

 

Just remove the weapon tier system

 

But srsly, you'd still need something like the tier system to allow for progression. But it could be hidden from the user.

 

Ofcourse there has to be something in place to allow progression, otherwise you could end up with a T6 on day one. What he suggested would work if they simply removed the tier label altogether but still keep the gamestage and loot progression in place. This would remove the visible confusion created by the tier system.

 

You clearly missed the point. Maybe you should work on this in the future instead of trying too hard to be funny with bad jokes and condescending posts.

 

 

 

[stample]

On 4/17/2022 at 2:53 AM, katarynna said:

Except t0 stuff. The primitive tools and weapons still have set stats with no variation or randomness.

 

Every q3 stone ax is identical.

 

The hand-crafted, one-at-time, each-made-individually items are all identical.

The production-line, mass-produced, machined parts with standardized clips/mags have wild variances in power and number of bullets they can hold.

 

The things we just accept for the sake of gameplay...

[Evil_Geoff]

Y'all know you can go into the items.xml file and edit the damage, magazine size, durability range, etc., right?
Or write your own modlet to use that does exactly that?

Because why play the vanilla game when you can mod it to your desires?

I mean come on!  I figured out that the traders didn't sell 7.62 HP ammo, so added them to the traders ammo group to sell.  If this 60 year old 🦖, not-a-programmer-by-anyone's-definition can teach himself how to do Xpath and .xml modding, you youngsters should be able to.  It's not that hard to learn.

[theFlu]

Yeah, why buy a game, when you can just write your own, right?

 

Modding solves A problem; one player not liking something. Having a problem fixed at vanilla level fixes it for everyone. One guy spending a work week to fix an issue properly vs a thousand players spending a few hours for a horrible hack of a fix for themselves.

 

For this specific case "it's silly that better quality weapons can be worse"; I can't remember anyone arguing against changing it - no-one seems to actually like the current implementation. So, IMO, a vanilla-level fix seems in order.

 

3 hours ago, Evil_Geoff said:

If this 60 year old 🦖, not-a-programmer-by-anyone's-definition can teach himself how to do Xpath and .xml modding, you youngsters should be able to.  It's not that hard to learn.

For this bit though, without a hint of sarcasm; great! Learning things is awesome, keep it up; maybe we'll play an EG-overhaul one day

[pApA^LeGBa]

15 hours ago, Evil_Geoff said:

Y'all know you can go into the items.xml file and edit the damage, magazine size, durability range, etc., right?
Or write your own modlet to use that does exactly that?

Because why play the vanilla game when you can mod it to your desires?

I mean come on!  I figured out that the traders didn't sell 7.62 HP ammo, so added them to the traders ammo group to sell.  If this 60 year old 🦖, not-a-programmer-by-anyone's-definition can teach himself how to do Xpath and .xml modding, you youngsters should be able to.  It's not that hard to learn.

 

That´s a solution for people who have time. And are kinda tech savy. I have seen people not beeing able to post a proper screenshot other than using their phone making a picture of their monitor. And a lot of people struggle to install existing mods. I know that some of my coworkers are overwhelmed with anything other than buying and installing the game on steam.

[Evil_Geoff]

On 4/22/2022 at 6:45 PM, theFlu said:

For this bit though, without a hint of sarcasm; great! Learning things is awesome, keep it up; maybe we'll play an EG-overhaul one day

Well, all things considered, probably not an overhaul.  But I started learning how that stuff works because I wanted to add in Stimpacks, Lead Lining mods and some other things to put in to Bdubyah's mod - The Wasteland to make it even more Fallout-ish.  I call it Extended Wasteland, and you can see videos of what I have been doing with it on YT in TomGirlGamer's channel.

 

 

On 4/23/2022 at 6:44 AM, pApA^LeGBa said:

 

That´s a solution for people who have time. And are kinda tech savy. I have seen people not beeing able to post a proper screenshot other than using their phone making a picture of their monitor. And a lot of people struggle to install existing mods. I know that some of my coworkers are overwhelmed with anything other than buying and installing the game on steam.

Sad but true.  I used to work as tech support for BellSouth DSL back in the day.  You don't know how many times  I wanted to tell a caller "Just pack up the damned computer and take it back to the store for a refund.  Your toaster would do a better job getting connected to the internet."  🤣