20.4 new mod folder location

[Boidster]

I, for one, am absolutely incensed that a for-profit company made a business deal with a different for-profit company all in the name of seeking profit. What is this world coming to? Next thing you know I'm going to have go get a Steam account just to play Steam games using Steam's infrastructure after giving Steam money. Where does the madness end?!?

[DEDloc]

1 hour ago, Glaston said:

I have 10 different modded game versions going back to Alpha 16.

 

I am not going to mess about to get them all to work via Appdata.

 

I will simply delete them and likely stop playing the game.

After 4.5k hours, the  game is not going in a general direction I like.

Recent Alphas have been 20-30 hrs or so Funpimps game and then wait for the modders to make the game more enjoyable.

 

Why all accommodation to MS? Are we going to reach the stage where we need a Microsoft account to play?

I have already deleted Minecraft because of this.

 

 

This post exemplifies my point. 

[pApA^LeGBa]

@Boidster I was just anserwing his question. Neutral. Ofc they need money. They were at 12 million sold copies years ago. And now they are on 14 millions and they not only need to continue paying for the development of 7 days now, they also need money to develop their new game that they already work on. It´s understandable.

 

But not like that. It caused a lot of trouble for many people that could have been easily avoided with detailed information (before the update) about what needs to be done on the userside once the update releases. Ofc they can´t always communicate everything they do in advance, but if you mess up things that bad, at least a warning would be needed.

 

They also could have waited with this change until they can properly implement this i guess. I least i hope so, if this is such a mess because they implented this in a hurry due to badly needing money right now, that could be really bad for the game.

Edited April 28, 2022 by pApA^LeGBa (see edit history)

[Matt115]

1 hour ago, DEDloc said:

How? I don't use a launcher, so I assume that's what you must mean. Doing it manually this is very simple.

 

Regardless, the narrative that "the mods folder got moved" is inaccurate at best and people are getting the wrong idea. You can still launch mods from seperate locations and as long as you have no mods in %appdata% you should have no issues.

@KhaineGB or @khzmusik could you explain yo him how this work?

Just now, Boidster said:

I, for one, am absolutely incensed that a for-profit company made a business deal with a different for-profit company all in the name of seeking profit. What is this world coming to? Next thing you know I'm going to have go get a Steam account just to play Steam games using Steam's infrastructure after giving Steam money. Where does the madness end?!?

You know that for example : do you know that gothic 1 was made just because founders of studio wanted to create game? TFP devs tell a lot about making mods , why mods can be solution for  more guns as example etc. So if Devs say they want to be "pro players" that mean 1. they can do things that are not best from profit point of view but good for community or players 2. they lying - cod devs as good example. 

So - if you want too have good opinion you have to take care about what you clients thinking about you right?

 

4 minutes ago, pApA^LeGBa said:

@Boidster I was just anserwing his question. Neutral. Ofc they need money. They were at 12 million sold copies years ago. And now they are on 14 millions and they not only need to continue paying for the development of 7 days now, they also need money to develop their new game that they already work on. It´s understandable.

 

But not like that. It caused a lot of trouble for many people that could have been easily avoided with detailed information (before the update) about what needs to be done on the userside once the update releases. Ofc they can´t always communicate everything they do in advance, but if you mess up things that bad, at least a warning would be needed.

 

They also could have waited with this change until they can properly implement this i guess. I least i hope so, if this is such a mess because they implented this in a hurry due to badly needing money right now, that could be really bad for the game.

If they need money so bad they can annouced dlc similiar to "Deep Rock Galactic - Supporter Upgrade"

Or make comic, manga or book like  dreadout or sengoku dynasty studios.

So money can be earn by diffrent way. 

even dunno "zombie children" dlc would be addition cash because i think at least few milions would buy it.

So there is better option to get money instead doing deal with MS

[DEDloc]

1 hour ago, Matt115 said:

@KhaineGB or @khzmusik could you explain yo him how this work?

 

Yes, please do, since apparently this guy has no idea wtf he's talking about. If I've got this totally wrong I really, really want to hear how

 

. Please, somebody who actually knows how this works tell me why I am wrong.

[Roland]

1 hour ago, DEDloc said:

The devs and modders need their own discord channel to discuss these things. Conversations like these out in the open are fueling the false narrative that "they moved the mods folder" when in fact for the user, nothing has changed. Simply DON't put any mods in %appdata% and you're fine. 

If the concern here is to help the less powerful users have easy access to mods, information overload is a thing. Most regular players just blast over this long thread and assume the mods folder has been moved, period. Now it's more complex in their minds already.

It would be better if the modders just worked this out with the devs directly.

 

Modder/Developer conversation about this issue and other issues is already in place. Rational and measured discussion is happening. Conversations like this thread can't be suppressed or deleted because THAT would only cause white hot fury over nobody being able to give their feedback. The devs are obviously not going to engage in threads like this or on Steam where people are either inferring or outright accusing them of being dirt bags. You can tell that some of the people on here who are screaming outrage and claiming that they would be satisfied if only TFP would just give all the reasons why-- would in fact never be satisfied with anything less than exactly what they want for themselves. I gave the link to this thread days ago to the devs and they said that they were already communicating directly with modders they know in the community.

 

Rant threads and speculations of disaster have been and always will be a part of the development scene whenever a studio chooses to develop publicly instead of behind closed doors. The truth about the mods folder will eventually trickle out to everyone and those who made the wrong assumption at first will figure it out. Very few who come on the forum and say they are done with the game and post their goodbye actually follow through and never play the game again. That's why goodbye posts are against the rules. They are just troll posts.

[KhaineGB]

8 minutes ago, DEDloc said:

 

Yes, please do, since apparently this guy has no idea wtf he's talking about. If I've got this totally wrong I really, really want to hear how

 

. Please, somebody who actually knows how this works tell me why I am wrong.

Instead of being able to have several copies of the game, all loading from their own /Mods folder... all FUTURE copies of the game will only load Mods from %AppData%/7 Days to Die.

Which means you can only have 1 mod installed at a time, or vanilla. You can't swap between them.

UNLESS we get creative with launch flags and custom XML files to make the game load from other places.

2 minutes ago, Roland said:

 

Modder/Developer conversation about this issue and other issues is already in place. Rational and measured discussion is happening. Conversations like this thread can't be suppressed or deleted because THAT would only cause white hot fury over nobody being able to give their feedback. The devs are obviously not going to engage in threads like this or on Steam where people are either inferring or outright accusing them of being dirt bags. You can tell that some of the people on here who are screaming outrage and claiming that they would be satisfied if only TFP would just give all the reasons why-- would in fact never be satisfied with anything less than exactly what they want for themselves. I gave the link to this thread days ago to the devs and they said that they were already communicating directly with modders they know in the community.

 

Rant threads and speculations of disaster have been and always will be a part of the development scene whenever a studio chooses to develop publicly instead of behind closed doors. The truth about the mods folder will eventually trickle out to everyone and those who made the wrong assumption at first will figure it out. Very few who come on the forum and say they are done with the game and post their goodbye actually follow through and never play the game again. That's why goodbye posts are against the rules. They are just troll posts.

It is? Cos I wasn't asked. 😛

[Roland]

1 minute ago, KhaineGB said:

It is? Cos I wasn't asked. 😛

 

Who do you know among the devs? Alloc, possibly? Maybe Lathan or Robert? Send out personal message and see if you get a response.

[KhaineGB]

Just now, Roland said:

 

Who do you know among the devs? Alloc, possibly? Maybe Lathan or Robert? Send out personal message and see if you get a response.

Alloc, sort of... because I don't like to bother him.

Prime, because I like to bother him a lot on twitch and cause endless suffering when he's testing twitch integration.

And i've spoken to Fataal a little bit. He helped me get the laser sight working on custom guns.

[DEDloc]

1 hour ago, KhaineGB said:

Instead of being able to have several copies of the game, all loading from their own /Mods folder... all FUTURE copies of the game will only load Mods from %AppData%/7 Days to Die.

Which means you can only have 1 mod installed at a time, or vanilla. You can't swap between them.

UNLESS we get creative with launch flags and custom XML files to make the game load from other places.

 

Thanks for your reply, I'm a huge fan and I use your backpack mod. 

I fully understand that in the future they plan to change the location. Right now however, the way I am reading it there is no difference other than the fact that if you have mods in appdata, they will load globally. So you just leave your mods seperated to the game folder for now (making sure there are no mods in appdata), and that's it. Am I wrong?

 

Please tell me if I am.

[KhaineGB]

FOR NOW, you are correct. You can still have a /Mods folder in the game dir and it'll load from there.

However, if you ALSO have a /Mods folder in the %AppData% location, it'll load from both, which is causing some issues right now.

[DEDloc]

3 minutes ago, KhaineGB said:

FOR NOW, you are correct. You can still have a /Mods folder in the game dir and it'll load from there.

However, if you ALSO have a /Mods folder in the %AppData% location, it'll load from both, which is causing some issues right now.

Thank you. I trust you to know what's best. I'm sure this will all get worked out in the best possible way.

[Ramethzer0]

oof

[KhaineGB]

8 minutes ago, DEDloc said:

Thank you. I trust you to know what's best. I'm sure this will all get worked out in the best possible way.

This is why i'm advocating for TFP to use the Documents folder instead.

1) It's easier to find for users.
2) More technically inclined users can move it easily.
3) It's cross-platform.

Like I said, I understand WHY the old way is being removed. I don't like it, but I understand it, and it's not worth arguing against. It's why I'm trying to encourage the devs to consider a different location that's better for the end user.

[Matt115]

8 minutes ago, KhaineGB said:

This is why i'm advocating for TFP to use the Documents folder instead.

1) It's easier to find for users.
2) More technically inclined users can move it easily.
3) It's cross-platform.

Like I said, I understand WHY the old way is being removed. I don't like it, but I understand it, and it's not worth arguing against. It's why I'm trying to encourage the devs to consider a different location that's better for the end user.

Thanks for help khaine, i can't explain good technical stuff 😅

45 minutes ago, Roland said:

 

Modder/Developer conversation about this issue and other issues is already in place. Rational and measured discussion is happening. I gave the link to this thread days ago to the devs and they said that they were already communicating directly with modders they know in the community.

 

Rant threads and speculations of disaster have been and always will be a part of the development scene whenever a studio chooses to develop publicly instead of behind closed doors. The truth about the mods folder will eventually trickle out to everyone and those who made the wrong assumption at first will figure it out.

@Roland If modders "well know" such @KhaineGB ( i don't agree with him about some thing but i respect that he know a lot about modding) saying something is wrong that mean something going on. This don't matter how it will be working in future because well some people will be disappoited now and some of them will not looks if something will change or not. Well - yep develpment is publicy and... that's good because we know earlier if something will be bad or good - leaks are good example for that

[Guppycur]

What if... Now hear me out... What if tfp had a mod switcher for when the move is permanent.

 

Woah.  

[Matt115]

3 minutes ago, Guppycur said:

What if... Now hear me out... What if tfp had a mod switcher for when the move is permanent.

 

Woah.  

Yep but this like - your brother broken your favorite mug so he bought you new. Well - in theory you have new mug but because of him for  some time you hadn't  mug right?

[Roland]

1 hour ago, KhaineGB said:

Alloc, sort of... because I don't like to bother him.

Prime, because I like to bother him a lot on twitch and cause endless suffering when he's testing twitch integration.

And i've spoken to Fataal a little bit. He helped me get the laser sight working on custom guns.

 

I'd say that's probably plenty of common history for you to reach out to either Prime or faatal when you have concerns/feeback. Darkness Falls is a big deal and if you already passingly know those guys and they know you are the DF author, they would be interested in hearing from you whenever you have feedback to share with them.

[Matt115]

3 minutes ago, Roland said:

 

I'd say that's probably plenty of common history for you to reach out to either Prime or faatal when you have concerns/feeback. Darkness Falls is a big deal and if you already passingly know those guys and they know you are the DF author, they would be interested in hearing from you whenever you have feedback to share with them.

Well this good idea. Maybe they can help. 

God... i want to hear anything positve ( well door looks good btw)

[KhaineGB]

15 minutes ago, Roland said:

 

I'd say that's probably plenty of common history for you to reach out to either Prime or faatal when you have concerns/feeback. Darkness Falls is a big deal and if you already passingly know those guys and they know you are the DF author, they would be interested in hearing from you whenever you have feedback to share with them.

Well I spoke to prime and had an amusing conversation...

I'll poke fataal later and see what he thinks.

[Javabean867]

3 hours ago, Glaston said:

I have 10 different modded game versions going back to Alpha 16.

 

I am not going to mess about to get them all to work via Appdata.

 

I will simply delete them and likely stop playing the game.

After 4.5k hours, the  game is not going in a general direction I like.

Recent Alphas have been 20-30 hrs or so Funpimps game and then wait for the modders to make the game more enjoyable.

 

Why all accommodation to MS? Are we going to reach the stage where we need a Microsoft account to play?

I have already deleted Minecraft because of this.

Won't the previous versions have to look for the mod folder they currently use?  I don't think they can/will update the older alphas to use the new appdata folder.

 

[grendelwolf]

My neighbour told me this evening that you probably could use Sandboxie for running more than one version of a game that uses the same folders. You can have one Sandbox per 7 Days To Die version. And the versions shouldn't interfere because they run on different layers. I don't have any experiences with Sandboxie, but maybe this could help you.

 

https://github.com/sandboxie-plus

 

Here's a video about running multiple copies of Diablo 2 using Sandboxie. Sorry, volume is a bit low.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZItuC3mrHE0

 

I've tested Sandboxie with Alpha 20.4 Stable and its works like a charm sandboxed. I didn't notice any performance issues. I had no problems with using Steam too in Sandboxie. I didn't test multiple versions of 7 Days To Die and I made just a short test and played for about half an hour so far. So it's up to you to find out if Sandboxie will work for you.

 

Maybe this principle of different sandboxed game versions could even be integrated in a Mod Launcher?

 

Sandboxie is for free since 2019. And it has no Adware! 

Edited April 28, 2022 by grendelwolf (see edit history)

[Roland]

1 hour ago, grendelwolf said:

My neighbour told me this evening that you probably could use Sandboxie for running more than one version of a game that uses the same folders. You can have one Sandbox per 7 Days To Die version. And the versions shouldn't interfere because they run on different layers. I don't have any experiences with Sandboxie, but maybe this could help you.

 

https://github.com/sandboxie-plus

 

Here's a video about running multiple copies of Diablo 2 using Sandboxie. Sorry, volume is a bit low.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZItuC3mrHE0

 

I've tested Sandboxie with Alpha 20.4 Stable and its works like a charm sandboxed. I didn't notice any performance issues. I had no problems with using Steam too in Sandboxie. I didn't test multiple versions of 7 Days To Die and I made just a short test and played for about half an hour so far. So it's up to you to find out if Sandboxie will work for you.

 

Maybe this principle of different sandboxed game versions could even be integrated in a Mod Launcher?

 

Sandboxie is for free since 2019. And it has no Adware! 

 

Now we finally see the culmination of your long game...

 

Grendelwolf: CEO of Sandboxie

 

[khzmusik]

5 hours ago, Matt115 said:

@KhaineGB or @khzmusik could you explain yo him how this work?

 

No idea why you pinged me, but I'll put in my two cents.

 

Personally, I have always used SphereII's Mod Launcher to launch modded games. The reason is simple: I will never, ever mod the game that is in the Steam folder.

 

I have always played concurrent modded and vanilla playthroughs. I have also always played the latest experimental as soon as it's available, even though I usually have a long-term playthrough on the previous alpha that I still play until the next alpha is stable (and sometimes after that).

 

Not to mention mod development. I have done lots of development where I have totally broken the game saves. I've sometimes broken things bad enough that I've had to re-install the game.

 

But that has always been OK, because every mod I've played has been on a different copy of the game, in a different folder on the hard drive, each of which has a different mods folder. The Mod Launcher makes this very easy which is why I recommend it.

 

So, the move to keep all the mods in one place is a very bad idea to me. It doesn't matter where that place is. If mods have to be in any one place, and that place only, then I'll have to stop playing mods, and my relationship with this game will end a whole lot sooner.

 

Having said that, the game has always allowed things to be loaded from different directories through command-line arguments. (It's how the Mod Launcher keeps game saves and worlds for different game installations in different places.) As long as that is still an option then I will be OK.

 

But it would be better if the game could specify these locations in some way that is far more convenient. A new entry in the game's settings screen, a "browse" option in a launcher, whatever. It should be easy enough such that anyone who knows how to open a folder can do it.

[grendelwolf]

1 hour ago, Roland said:

 

Now we finally see the culmination of your long game...

 

Grendelwolf: CEO of Sandboxie

 

How do you know? 😉

 

Nope, unfortunately I'm not that creative. Some time ago I planned to make a game using the Unreal engine (which is for free now) after I saw what this gentleman did with 'The Shore' (a Lovecraftian horror exploration game). But I'm afraid I will never start programming such a game. If I would really have the ressources, the money, the manpower I'd make a sequel of 'Clive Barker's Undying'. I even began to write a story concept some time ago (Corona, Lockdown, and finally some free time).  

 

1 hour ago, khzmusik said:

Having said that, the game has always allowed things to be loaded from different directories through command-line arguments.

 

 

But then TFP should make things configurable using the standard game options menu. They can't expect that every gamer want to fiddle around with configuarion files or launch parameters.

Edited April 28, 2022 by grendelwolf (see edit history)