Farming not very viable even with living off the land 3.

[Roland]

3 hours ago, GlyphGryph said:

Y'all should have "Harvest Moons" where a swarm of zombie rabbits and crows or something appear to eat your crops and you got to fight them off to protect as many as possible all night long.

 

Is that what they are or are they events where you can woo one of the local village girls in the hopes of getting married?

[jams]

14 hours ago, Roland said:

 

It seems like a stupid statement to you because you are still trying to play the game with an A19 mentality. This happens every alpha update when a feature changes. People who stay stuck in the past and keep trying to do the same thing they've always done come on the forum and declare the new feature impossible because they are too rigid to adapt. But it doesn't take long for the wise and adaptable players to start sharing their experiences and eventually even the most dense player figures out the new meta and has success-- or they revert to the old alpha and call that the pinnacle of the game's success and never leave. (There are still A16 servers running after all)

 

Trying to farm with an A19 mentality where you turn all of your crops into seeds whenever possible while at LOTL 0 or LOTL 1 or LOTL 2 is definitely going to result in a diminishing farm until you have nothing left. You are correct that sticking to that old strategy that worked because 100% of plants regrew is going to result in failure now if you try it. You will waste all your crops on diminishing seed returns...

 

  Reveal hidden contents

So it seems I misunderstood what you were saying with most of my focus when I did read it being on the way you said it instead of what you were actually saying.

 

So the answer I should have said was that even though the guy was mistaken (or lying) about his farm failing with LOTL 1 and that it is possible to maintain and grow a farm even with LOTL 1 as long as you reinvest most if not all of your crops back into it, there is also another way to play with farming which is to simply eat all the crops you get which will result in a fluctuating farm size.

 

My advice to him was not stupid-- merely another pathway that people can choose to take that works if your goal is to have a garden that provides ingredients for recipes. I was wrong to say that it is the advisable way to farm. It just depends on your goals for your farm.

 

Now if the goal is simply to grow a large scale farm then, you are correct that you should use all or most of your crops to craft seeds and that even on really bad luck harvests you should be able to still maintain your farm size by using all of your crops and then hope for better luck on the next harvest. In this manner it does appear that you can eventually achieve a large farm and that the risks of completely losing everything is very low.

 

 

Well I didn't play alpha 19 so...  Anyway, what you're saying is completely wrong, and the way you're saying it is shameful.  Not understanding statistics is common and understandable, but you should at least try and be more open to input by people that do.

 

So, without going into details as that has been covered in other threads, A20 LOTL 1 farms will thrive just fine, providing enough of surplus crops.  This is proven both statistically and works just fine in-game (for me at least).  I've been paying quite a bit of attention to my yields, and my seed return are pretty close to 50% on average.  I'm still growing the farm at day 20, so the surplus of crops goes there (plus I don't have all the recipes I need), but I will stop once I have 10-20 seeds of the crops I need and with LOTL 1 that will provide plenty of surplus crops to support all of my needs.  Coffee is there already and I'm not even paying any special attention to the farming.

 

Only thing that is different from A19 is that now it requires a bit more thought (and a bit more clicking).  As I said previously, my first crop yielded only 2 seeds from 10 plants.  But I do understand statistics, and I know that is a fairly common possibility (about 4.5% chance).  What I also understand, for a farm to completely fail from for example 10 seeds, the probability is quite close to impossible.  My next yield was around 70% seeds, so far for me the statistics are winning over your claims of a "new meta".

 

 

[Aldranon]

With LOTL 3, you always make a surplus no matter the results.

 

Also, Machine gun is on the same perk tree and is the ultimate weapon now, having 5 points into Fortitude is a no-brainer , IMO, then for LOTL-3 is only 3 points more.

[pahbi]

4 hours ago, jams said:

 

Well I didn't play alpha 19 so...  Anyway, what you're saying is completely wrong, and the way you're saying it is shameful.  Not understanding statistics is common and understandable, but you should at least try and be more open to input by people that do.

 

I don't know what the moderators situation is, are they on the payroll or something?  Honestly, they seem more like fanboys than anything else.

 

Getting back to crops, for myself I want crops to be easy enough that I can take care of them with minimal effort, so I can focus on the things that are fun to me like exploration, building forts and killing zombies.

 

 

[meganoth]

23 minutes ago, pahbi said:

 

I don't know what the moderators situation is, are they on the payroll or something?  Honestly, they seem more like fanboys than anything else.

 

Not on a payroll. So I must be a fanboy and you are a hater? Did I get that right or is that maybe a bit too simple? 😉

 

I agree with a lot of stuff the developers do and I also know a lot about their constraints and design targets. So it easy for me to explain changes, i.e. why something was done by the developers, even if I might not agree with it ! Makes me look even more suspicious. 

 

For example I can explain why they put the seeds you get back into your inventory instead of into the farm plot even though I am saying at the same time that that is senseless grind and should be changed.

 

23 minutes ago, pahbi said:

 

Getting back to crops, for myself I want crops to be easy enough that I can take care of them with minimal effort, so I can focus on the things that are fun to me like exploration, building forts and killing zombies.

 

 

 

And there is a way. Put or put not any points into LotL and just set any seeds you find or get in any way into farm plots. Do not convert produce to seeds. That is the way to farm with almost no effort and with the best ratio of result versus effort.

[Lemmers]

20 hours ago, Roland said:

Only those who invest fully into LOTL 3 will be able to create a large self restoring farm and should be the only ones crafting seeds to maintain or grow the size of their farms.

This makes sense. Sounds like they set "self sustainability" to the highest tier and balanced the lower perks around that. And they removed the infinitely respawning crops which was a good quality of life change but bad for balance as it was pretty easy to get a farm going.

Things might be tough now, but I assume in A21 we'll have the farmer's outfit giving a buff to yields, possibly a new book series on plants, and of course a temporary buff candy/food/drink that does the same because that's how the meta in this game works for everything else lol.

[GlyphGryph]

11 hours ago, Roland said:

 

Is that what they are or are they events where you can woo one of the local village girls in the hopes of getting married?

 

Why not both?

 

Anyway, not really related to the point of this thread, but I think the real strength of this game is definitely its ability to create "cool moments", with its beautiful POIs and its big invasion events and dynamic spawns and stuff. I love that it's always been willing to cast realism to the side and say "but wouldn't it be cool if...", and I think I'd just really love to see some of that brought to the farming dynamic somehow, create some actual "farm based content" for the player to engage with - either that or making farming trivial and quick so we don't have to spend much time thinking about it, which it feels like we're closer to right now but moved (slightly) away from with the recent version.

[jams]

1 minute ago, Lemmers said:

This makes sense. Sounds like they set "self sustainability" to the highest tier and balanced the lower perks around that. And they removed the infinitely respawning crops which was a good quality of life change but bad for balance as it was pretty easy to get a farm going.

Things might be tough now, but I assume in A21 we'll have the farmer's outfit giving a buff to yields, possibly a new book series on plants, and of course a temporary buff candy/food/drink that does the same because that's how the meta in this game works for everything else lol.

 

Except that it is incorrect.  LOTL 1 is perfectly self sustainable.

 

Example: 10 seed start, LOTL 1.

- Scenario 1, replant only the seeds you get, you will get an average surplus of 77 produce after 5 harvests, with 0 seeds left.

- Scenario 2, craft seeds to keep planting 10 and you will get an average surplus of 75 produce after 5 harvests,  with 10 seeds left.

So after only 5 harvests, if re-crafting seeds you will have produced the same amount of produce to be used for food or crafting, while maintaining the seed amount.  It's pretty much a no-brainer for me which way I'll go.

[warmer]

15 hours ago, HungryZombie said:

I believe there are companies that are producing crops that grow without seeds so you can't replant and have to buy more seeds. Perhaps those are the only seeds available. 

those are cloned from cuttings which is something we should be able to do once you get a beaker and a chem station

[Rince]

I wish that could be a way to keep the A19 way, in which the crops revert to already planted seeds instead of dissapear.

Maybe a ultimate LotL skill that cost most points when you finished the 3 original ones? One book that you can find?

[ricp]

 

..be prepared, this will be a fairly lengthy reply, and I can't necessarily promise quality to go along with quantity!

 

 

18 hours ago, Roland said:

Why do you believe this? Can you elaborate on why in a post-nuclear apocalyptic world every plant should give a viable seed every single time? I think it is reasonable that you wouldn't get seeds every time.

 

I take it you are not a gardener? Either way I gave a more detailed explanation in the other thread. In short, a potato *is* a potato seed. It makes no sense to say you harvested a potato and got no 'seeds'. Even if we get past that contradiction, introducing lore that influences whether you get a seed or not, but not influencing the quality of that item feels like you are trying to find reason to support the current setup, not validating it's existence.

 

18 hours ago, Roland said:

Why does it have to be addressed properly according to your criteria or completely removed from the game? If you hate the change enough to want farming completely removed couldn't you just stop farming? I've done complete playthroughs in which I never farmed once. Why can't it exist in a form you don't like and you just ignore it as if it had been removed from the game?

 

I think you are taking this from the wrong angle. I am not demanding it removed, I am saying it's a very basic game loop, which has been made all the more basic and considerably less viable in this update and at this point it's more frustrating and not representative of "farming in computer games in general". Frustrating to the point that, certainly to this player and mentioned by many others, it's nothing but an annoyance. Something presumably recognised by TFP, in literally the first patch they release for A20, tried to balance it out (re: % of seed).

 

Why should TFP give this any priority? For the same reason they give anything priority, to improve the game. Same reason they spent time implementing Twitch, or updated the random gen. I'm not suggesting this takes precedence over something like zombie pathing AI, or improvements to the frame rate - things that are key and have an immediate effect on your game should be addressed before farming.

However, there has obviously been time and effort spent in this area, and trust me, I fully understand that. I am reflecting on the decision to make it like it is, not the actual work put in by whichever dev took charge of that part. With that in mind, though, why "lower the value" of that work by reducing its value to the player?

 

I'm going to be honest here, without wishing to sound rude, but I find the "I don't do farming sometimes" or the "if you don't like it, don't use it" as justifications for the current setup, to be quite fatuous. Simply because you choose not to do "a thing" in the game doesn't mean people shouldn't discuss the merits, or not, of "a thing".

 

 

18 hours ago, Roland said:

I don't want to argue with you over these to POVs. I just want you to explain them and I promise I won't counterpoint you-- I'll just thank you for sharing and drop it. Because I am curious.

 

Who is arguing? I have gone out of my way to say this isn't criticism of the game as a whole or of TFP. I am more than happy for you to counter any point I make and won't take umbrage. Either of our opinions should be able to withstand scrutiny without taking it personally.

 

If you want my opinion of what I would like to see, and this is obviously with the caveat that it is very unlikely to happen simply down to cost, resources, game limitations or just an unwillingness not to do so (and all those reasons are fine, btw,  their game, their choice), then it would be something like this..

 

• All cultivated plants need some form of water
  • this water could either be in close proximity or perhaps environmental, such as rain.
• Fertiliser, made from rotten flesh or nitrate, is reintroduced, the result is to increase growth rate (yield would be governed by LOTL)
• Disease added, as the plant grows between stages it has a particular chance to go "rotten"[1], in that case all you get from harvesting would be fiber (like the dead corn)
  • it would be nice to extend this so that crops placed next to a rotten crop has an increased chance of becoming rotten too.
• Plants would have distinct stages (4 or 5), harvesting at different stages returns different things, earlier harvest gives the seed back, late harvest gives the grown item.
• Items when grown need to be processed, done by hand no need for a new "workbench" [2], the result will be the "flesh" of the crop and a seed. This reflects reality, you cut open, for example, a pumpkin, you get outer flesh and inner seeds.
  • the LOTL perk would determine how much flesh/seed you get from the plant (ideally you'd only get one seed purely for balance)
• Plants should be affected by biome, growing slower in snow, faster in desert, and certain plants would prefer different biomes and their growth rate and yield would reflect that. Potatoes growing better in cold than heat, the reverse for yucca.
  • disease, if introduced, could also be rolled into this increasing greatly the chance of disease in the wasteland biome.
• There should be more plants, and as such more food recipes. This is my wish list so you know, that was always going to be on here.

 

[1] I've footnoted this as it fits in with your "lore narrative" of plants being affected by the post-apocalyptic environment

[2] I do like the idea of having a cooking bench that is like an upgrade from the campfire, that allows for quicker preparation. It could also tie in with getting the cookers working.

 

I feel after reading that, some people will go, "wait a minute buddy, nobody is building a farming simulator here" however that's a bit disingenuous. What I have described above is pretty much what DayZ has - albeit I've laid it out to fit into 7DtD's current system - and nobody is accusing Bohemia of developing a farming simulator.

 

For me farming should be integral to the game loop, as food is the one essential. Now sure, we could get stuff from killing animals, looting or buying from traders, but that's not the same game loop, in the same way you could avoid mining by buying or looting but again that's not the 'intended' game loop for that.

 

In fact, if I had free reign, what I'd do is tie in the amount of tinned goods you can loot to the XP, literally a reverse of how the looting progression works, so as you enter mid to late game there is next to no canned food at all, even from vending machines. This would mean the player having to rely on farming, and I would justify that through the following logic: by that stage of the game it's likely you will be making your own ammo, your own concrete your own steel, it makes sense to extend out the "sole survivor" trope to the food. It's a mechanism in the game that should be exploited.

 

This isn't about taking a minor element of the game and turning it into a burden, it's about complimenting the different aspects of the game to best progress the player while providing gameplay enjoyment. I would wager I am certainly not alone in the desire to see this part of the game expanded.

 

Bottom line, and yes this is near the end of the post, well done for anyone sticking with this to the end, I could probably mod most of what I've suggested into the game myself. Time and effort, and learning the underlying foibles of how 7DtD works in detail, are really the issue there. That's the same for TFP devs too, I'm not naive, I realise that changing something within a game that has developed in complexity over a decade or so is either going to be stupidly easy or ridiculously hard, I have maintained legacy (and sprawling) code bases before (albeit in a business software sector, not gaming - although the underlying process is still the same). 

 

[Roland]

7 hours ago, jams said:

Well I didn't play alpha 19 so...  Anyway, what you're saying is completely wrong, and the way you're saying it is shameful.  Not understanding statistics is common and understandable, but you should at least try and be more open to input by people that do.

 

I already admitted that I misunderstood your post and I realize I was mistaken on the ability to maintain a farm with LOTL 1. That's great news. As for shamefulness, why is that the impolite people seem to have the thinnest skins...?

 

I've been wrong before and I'll be wrong again and I usually admit when that happens. You say it is understandable for people to misunderstand statistics and yet way before my "shamefully" written response you opened our conversation by calling my misunderstanding the stupidest post in the thread. That's how you chose to set the tone and show your "understanding" for someone who didn't get the statistics. 

 

Again, I admit that I got it wrong and I'll give the seed crafting pathway a chance at LOTL 1 but I will probably also play it where I don't craft seeds and just plant as I acquire things and use all my crops for food. That has worked fine for me as well.

 

I do still think that people who try and play farming with an A19 mentality are going to have problems in A20 unless they adapt. 

[Rince]

14 minutes ago, Roland said:

 

I already admitted that I misunderstood your post and I realize I was mistaken on the ability to maintain a farm with LOTL 1. That's great news. As for shamefulness, why is that the impolite people seem to have the thinnest skins...?

 

I've been wrong before and I'll be wrong again and I usually admit when that happens. You say it is understandable for people to misunderstand statistics and yet way before my "shamefully" written response you opened our conversation by calling my misunderstanding the stupidest post in the thread. That's how you chose to set the tone and show your "understanding" for someone who didn't get the statistics. 

 

Again, I admit that I got it wrong and I'll give the seed crafting pathway a chance at LOTL 1 but I will probably also play it where I don't craft seeds and just plant as I acquire things and use all my crops for food. That has worked fine for me as well.

 

I do still think that people who try and play farming with an A19 mentality are going to have problems in A20 unless they adapt. 

Or they become super carnivore! Which is what I did!

 

Or that counts as adapting?

[Roland]

1 hour ago, ricp said:

I take it you are not a gardener?

 

I totally get you now. You are like the gun nuts who are triggered by every little inconsistency in the guns that non gun nuts completely overlook. No, I wouldn't characterize myself as a gardener so these minute details that don't match up with real life gardening don't bother me at all. I'm also not a gun nut. Thank goodness I get to just play the game and enjoy it as an abstraction of those real life activities. When I point my gun at a zombie and it makes a noise and the bullet hits, I'm happy. I don't care that the sound wasn't quite right for that type of gun. By the same token, I really don't care that potatoes are their own seeds. I mean I did already know that-- anyone who forgot about a bag of potatoes in their pantry knows that-- but it doesn't matter. I know that "seed" is being used in the game in the generic abstracted form. I'm also perfectly okay with the idea that not all seeds are viable. I guess they could give us back a seed for every plant but divide them into two categories where 50% of them are sterile seeds and the other half are viable seeds.

 

1 hour ago, ricp said:

I think you are taking this from the wrong angle. I am not demanding it removed, I am saying it's a very basic game loop, which has been made all the more basic and considerably less viable in this update and at this point it's more frustrating and not representative of "farming in computer games in general".

 

Well if you had written that then I wouldn't have taken it from the wrong angle. You're very articulate so if you aren't demanding that they do it right or remove it then stop typing the words "Do it right or remove it" if you don't want people to think you are demanding that they do it right or remove it.... From your perspective and especially from the description you gave for what farming in the game should be they will probably never do farming justice in your eyes. But, they aren't going to remove it either.

 

The good news is that because they won't remove it, someone will be able to mod it and hopefully create a version that all the Gardeners out there will be pleased with.

 

1 hour ago, ricp said:

I am more than happy for you to counter any point I make and won't take umbrage. Either of our opinions should be able to withstand scrutiny without taking it personally.

 

Thanks. I completely agree with this view of posting in the forums. But not everyone does so I wanted to be sure. I really don't have any counterpoints. Your version of farming would be cool and as an expert in gardening your version would be more accurate and true to life as well. I just think the whole "fix it or remove it" line is a bit over the top and I was mostly curious as to why you would actually type that. Good to know you weren't really making that demand seriously.

 

By the way, the change to LOTL 2 was planned before experimental dropped but there wasn't time to get it in. It was planned before even all the outcry.  What will be interesting to see is how they react to the block HP issue.

15 minutes ago, Rince said:

Or they become super carnivore! Which is what I did!

 

Or that counts as adapting?

 

Sure, if that works for you. But let me ask you what do you do with seeds you find? Do you plant those for an occasional harvest of ingredients for recipes or do you just sell them and ignore farming altogether?

[Rince]

15 minutes ago, Roland said:

 

I totally get you now. You are like the gun nuts who are triggered by every little inconsistency in the guns that non gun nuts completely overlook. No, I wouldn't characterize myself as a gardener so these minute details that don't match up with real life gardening don't bother me at all. I'm also not a gun nut. Thank goodness I get to just play the game and enjoy it as an abstraction of those real life activities. When I point my gun at a zombie and it makes a noise and the bullet hits, I'm happy. I don't care that the sound wasn't quite right for that type of gun. By the same token, I really don't care that potatoes are their own seeds. I mean I did already know that-- anyone who forgot about a bag of potatoes in their pantry knows that-- but it doesn't matter. I know that "seed" is being used in the game in the generic abstracted form. I'm also perfectly okay with the idea that not all seeds are viable. I guess they could give us back a seed for every plant but divide them into two categories where 50% of them are sterile seeds and the other half are viable seeds.

 

 

Well if you had written that then I wouldn't have taken it from the wrong angle. You're very articulate so if you aren't demanding that they do it right or remove it then stop typing the words "Do it right or remove it" if you don't want people to think you are demanding that they do it right or remove it.... From your perspective and especially from the description you gave for what farming in the game should be they will probably never do farming justice in your eyes. But, they aren't going to remove it either.

 

The good news is that because they won't remove it, someone will be able to mod it and hopefully create a version that all the Gardeners out there will be pleased with.

 

 

Thanks. I completely agree with this view of posting in the forums. But not everyone does so I wanted to be sure. I really don't have any counterpoints. Your version of farming would be cool and as an expert in gardening your version would be more accurate and true to life as well. I just think the whole "fix it or remove it" line is a bit over the top and I was mostly curious as to why you would actually type that. Good to know you weren't really making that demand seriously.

 

By the way, the change to LOTL 2 was planned before experimental dropped but there wasn't time to get it in. It was planned before even all the outcry.  What will be interesting to see is how they react to the block HP issue.

 

Sure, if that works for you. But let me ask you what do you do with seeds you find? Do you plant those for an occasional harvest of ingredients for recipes or do you just sell them and ignore farming altogether?

I put them in the faming chest, where they are with all the rotten meat and nitrate that I'm hoarding.

Old habits die hard. In A19 always gathered all that for my farming needs. And I must admit that I'm a bit of a hoarder. So I always come back to home walking at snail pace overloaded with things.

So I'm ignoring farming, but I don't want to sell the seeds, so they are there, in my chest, a silent testament of my past gardening adventures.

[JCrook1028]

19 hours ago, Roland said:

Those onions you grew last year were in irradiated soil

No but if they were I'd be dead by now anyway.

[Roland]

So then why not build a few farming chests out of wood, clay, rotten flesh and nitrate and store a few seeds in those periodically...?   

13 minutes ago, Rince said:

I put them in the faming chest

 

[Urban Blackbear]

7 minutes ago, JCrook1028 said:

No but if they were I'd be dead by now anyway.

 

Hate to be that guy but no, you wouldn't. Irradiated means it was exposed to radiation. It doesn't mean it gives off radiation. That is radioactive. That vast majority of packaged foods these days have been irradiated. It kills bacteria.

[ricp]

40 minutes ago, Roland said:

 

I totally get you now. You are like the gun nuts who are triggered by every little inconsistency in the guns that non gun nuts completely overlook. No, I wouldn't characterize myself as a gardener so these minute details that don't match up with real life gardening don't bother me at all.

 

 

No need to going to go back and forth on this, as I think it's clear where both of us stand, however in terms of your opening paragraph, it's disappointing to see you make assumptions accompanied with a "triggered" barb. It was not necessary, and does your reply no favours. As for it being a minute detail, a potato is a seed, that is no minute detail, there is an explicit and direct connection and it is fundamental to what makes a potato, a potato.

 

All in all, my biggest frustration is the potential it has to affect the game in a very positive way, yet we see it nerfed. It is, if you can forgive the pun, fertile ground for expansion. Of course, it's not the first time I have disliked some of the changes made when switching alphas, and I am sure that'll happen with the next one. I don't expect a perfect game, and I do genuinely believe each alpha is better than the previous one albeit with annoyances along the way.

[Roland]

15 minutes ago, ricp said:

No need to going to go back and forth on this, as I think it's clear where both of us stand, however in terms of your opening paragraph, it's disappointing to see you make assumptions accompanied with a "triggered" barb.

 

I didn't mean triggered as a barb. I don't think it is bad to be a "farming nerd" or a "Gun nerd" or any kind of nerd other than that it hampers your fun when the medium doesn't depict your area of nerdiness correctly. I'm having a hard time enjoying the new Wheel of Time series because I'm a "book nerd" for that series and get triggered by inconsistencies and plot holes that arise due to changes that the director has made. See? Don't look for insult where none is intended. It is a well known fact that when you are a fan of something you become super picky about the details of that thing. 

 

18 minutes ago, ricp said:

As for it being a minute detail, a potato is a seed, that is no minute detail, there is an explicit and direct connection and it is fundamental to what makes a potato, a potato

 

lol...see? You can't help it. I'm the same way when watching that show. But gardening doesn't affect me and I just can't care enough to be outraged about the true properties of potatoes.

[PoppaSmirk]

So,  I posted a few days back about My experiences with Farming.  Now,  I took steps to try again.   I cleaned out all old Alpha 19 Saves, and reinstalled the Alpha 20 experimental.  Then yesterday,  I received the newest update.  So I am just planting in the new Random Gen world I started,  Planting a variety of crops on day 14,  so My normal modus operandi is to allow 3 days until harvest.  I will let you all know the results.

[ricp]

2 hours ago, Roland said:

 

I didn't mean triggered as a barb. I don't think it is bad to be a "farming nerd" or a "Gun nerd" or any kind of nerd other than that it hampers your fun when the medium doesn't depict your area of nerdiness correctly.

 

While I did not take the comment as malicious, the description you gave didn't represent the content I had posted. Not a big deal, just seemed an odd tone to take for an opening paragraph when "triggered" is meme 101 for trash talk.

 

 

2 hours ago, Roland said:

lol...see? You can't help it. I'm the same way when watching that show. But gardening doesn't affect me and I just can't care enough to be outraged about the true properties of potatoes.

 

It's not 'outrage', again I am unsure as to why you continue to use such emotive terms. I feel like this may sound defensive, it's not intended to, but you had asked me to clarify why it wasn't possible to get a potato 'tuber' but not get a potato 'seed'. It's not some niche gardening thing, it is fundamental and to reply that "well that's nothing I do, and goes beyond what I care about" seems somewhat dismissive of the information provided. 

 

However, let's get onto something more interesting. I had actually seen the Wheel of Time TV series advertised but I hadn't read the books. To be fair I am not a fan of fantasy/rpg, either in book or film format, but I am a fan of Sci-Fi, and have very similar experiences with both the Phillip K D*ck novel "Man in the High Castle", and Asimov's "Foundation". Both have taken very odd twists and turns. Same for American Gods too, it's like Gaiman chopped up the story and relaid it for TV although seeing as he was the actual author, I'll let him get away with it!

 

 

--

Edit: It seems like the profanity censor is not keen on science fiction legends. Understandable, I once set up a profanity filter to be overzealous in one of the banking apps I wrote. I was promptly told by customer support that a Mr D*ck (not Phillip) was very irate as he was unable to sign up for our services.

[Roland]

22 minutes ago, ricp said:

It's not 'outrage', again I am unsure as to why you continue to use such emotive terms. I feel like this may sound defensive, it's not intended to, but you had asked me to clarify why it wasn't possible to get a potato 'tuber' but not get a potato 'seed'. It's not some niche gardening thing, it is fundamental and to reply that "well that's nothing I do, and goes beyond what I care about" seems somewhat dismissive of the information provided. 

 

Okay. I didn't mean to be dismissive of your information. I believe everything you've shared and trust your facts. I was simply letting you know that I am happy to let things like how potato "seeds" are depicted slide by. If I assigned unwarranted emotion then I guess it is simply because I wouldn't call for a feature to be fixed or removed entirely unless there was some passion involved. So I'm just projecting me.

 

I loved the Man in the High Castle series and will add the books to my list. The Wheel of Time show is pretty good-- just not in lockstep with the books so if you haven't read them you won't be bothered that the Aiel Warrior last night killed several men while being unveiled. UNVEILED!!!  If she had lived, she would have accrued much t'oh...

 

 

[ricp]

8 minutes ago, Roland said:

I loved the Man in the High Castle series and will add the books to my list. The Wheel of Time show is pretty good-- just not in lockstep with the books so if you haven't read them you won't be bothered that the Aiel Warrior last night killed several men while being unveiled. UNVEILED!!!  If she had lived, she would have accrued much t'oh...

 

 

 

To continue this on, I had a friend who was heavily into The Witcher books, apparently there are _tons_ of books in the series, and while he was slightly miffed regarding the games as they do, apparently, keep to the original narrative. The TV series, however, did not and did not to such an extent that he simply couldn't enjoy it, which is a shame, as even for someone who is not into fantasy, I found it a pretty decent watch.

[GlyphGryph]

A potato is not a seed, and acting like it is is kinda weird? Potato seeds exist. They look kinda like pumpkin seeds, and come (unsurprisingly) from the flowers the potato produces. Saying potatoes are seeds is like saying apple tree branches are seeds.