Horde XP farming contraption idea (mostly cheese)

[walkingwounded]

Full disclosure: very new to game, still operating in turtle mode and have barely reached the steel age.

 

Saw an idea to build a raised corridor that the zeds will follow and then fall off at the end before reaching you (they cycle in a loop), but this requires ranged weapons to gain any xp (yeah, i could just let them fall in a deep pit and take damage passively, but no xp).

Ref: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jj5dmt57Sbc (Jawoodle, killing corridor)

 

Idea:

-start with the raised 'cheese' structure

-create a temporary path that allows a certain number of zeds to reach my "pummel pete" wall (where i pound them with bats or whatever)

-use a trigger plate to 'roll up' the path so the cheese takes effect (zeds cycle the corridor path), and I can kill the ones that have lined up

-once the last 'Pete' is down the plate re-rolls out the welcome mat for a new batch

 

I was thinking this might be possible with a garage door and pressure plate(s) (plate down = open door, plate up = close door).

Allows me to take on small batches while reloading and repairing between, or gabbing loot bags or harvesting meat through the gaps.

Zeds can still get me if I really mess up.

 

Checklist:

-garage door mounted horizontally (or other item that the zeds can walk on and then 'roll up'), or an electric drawbridge perhaps

-pressure plate

-power bank or generator

-switch (for emergency bypass)

 

Does this sound viable?

Any thoughts on how to wire it up?

[Liesel Weppen]

But why?

 

You have electrical equipment but no ranged weapons?

 

I think i get what you are trying to do. Perhaps it will work, but i guess it won't separate single zombies. Garage doors and also draw bridges work relatively slow, so i guess there will pass more than a single zombie.

I see that you can open the gap with trigger plates, but you need to manually close the gap again once you killed the zombies that crossed, not earlier. So i'd say you really need electricity with a switch there.

 

Also note that zombies may destroy your garage door/draw bridge.  Some of them may enter rage mode.

 

Since you seem to be able to use electricity already, you can also use traps to kill Zs. That will also give XP. Perhaps use dart traps and blades, maybe combined with electric fences to keep the Zs longer in place.

 

Also note that most kill corridor designs suffer once demolishers appear. They will usually break the whole "system" with one explosion.

 

Imho best game experience: Just try it.

[meganoth]

I disagree with your use of the word cheese. It may be cheesy or at least lazy to copy working designs from the internet, but many games can be easily solved by reading howtos on the internet.

Those highly optimized designs floating around seem cheesy to a random observer because they were optimized in hundreds of hours of playtime.

 

A raised corridor? A lot of medieval castles used narrow high bridges as only access ways, did they cheese their defense?

 

[stample]

If you want to do this, here are some thoughts.

 

Forget the pressure plate, use a motion sensor.  Put the sensor behind the door/pitfall, and wire it up such that the path is "available" only when the motion sensor does not detect anything.  Set the motion sensor to detect both zombies and you.

 

Put a room behind that door, almost entirely covered by the motion sensor.

 

Now, by standing in the majority of the room, you'll be detected and door/pitfall prevents them from getting to you.  Back into the un-watched corner and it will allow zombies in.  Zombies come running, as soon as 1-2 get into the room they hit sensor area, door slams shut, you rush forward to kill them.  As long as either you or the zombies are in the fighting area, door will stay closed.  Once cleared and you're ready again, back out of sensor range.

 

You might also put a robo-sledge outside/next to the door to knock off any zombies that make it too the door, but not thru the door, so they don't destroy it.  It will last a long time this way.

 

The electric vault hatches make excellent triggerable bridges, btw.  Put your door flush with the outer wall, then place the hatch at 90 degrees below the door (flat to the wall when closed) so that when it opens, the hatch is horizontal and provides a ledge to stand on at the door.  When it closes, there's nothing for the zombie to stand on outside the door/nothing to jump onto.  They will leap at the door, probably hit it once as they fall, but can't continually damage it.

 

Edit: Oh, if you do use sledges, be sure to place it to the right of the door (hits the zombies on the left side) so it won't trigger the demolishers.

[theFlu]

The idea is fine, other than it might be quite slow for killing, the zeds will take their sweet time to circle around after being dropped. Also, they'll have plenty of time to break things while they can't get to you when the path is blocked.

 

We use a "customer service counter" for the most part now, which is essentially a normal wall with the second block replaced by a horizontal plate where the customers show up. And some method for climbing prevention.

 

I've designed couple such that you can isolate the service point.. the best working one is simply electric hatches for the zeds to stand on. If you get breached, just drop the hatches. Whether you use a manual switch or something automatic is up to you. If you use a hatch, slap it on a wall like stample describes above, that way when someone spits at your electricity and your power goes out, the hatch closes to secure the path.

 

It won't allow for loot pickup, but mostly the bags survive til morning anyway. And there's always a skull to bash, so no time for looting anyway...

[walkingwounded]

Thanks for the input.

The overall goal is to limit the number of zeds beating on the service counter at one time and having a living waterfall of zeds I can spray with fire and lead later is the plan (conserving 7.62 and 9mm ammo by using melee and shotgun [with duckbill mod] during early waves).  I figure once a half dozen or so get to the counter a trigger plate will close the hatches, but a motion sensor covering the counter might be more reliable.  If the plates can do an event on up and event on down I can make a multi stage switch circuit.  If they only do one event (on down), then this will not work.

 

I'm still researching the electrical stuff, I'm hoping I can automate the opening and closing with one circuit.  I know it can do single event stuff, but multi-event stuff, not sure yet.  Might have to put a manual trigger inside I can hit to re-open the path (or install a door so I can reach them).

 

1-sensor: no enemies = hatches open (path enabled)

2-sensor: enemies detected = close hatches (path closed)

3-no more enemies, reset back to step 1

 

Or as suggested set a blind spot and use the 'no player detected' setup to re-open.  This has an advantage that I can queue up more zeds at a time and make full repairs without having to use a bypass switch.

 

Birds might be an issue when they arrive, but a reverse facing (shotgun/smg) turret for the roof could handle that (rather than the sledge up front).

 

I'm almost at the power stage (gathering parts anyway).  My passive cobble/concrete 'service counter' (I like that term) seems to be holding so far, though I'm working on building the corridor version next (still working out the details).

 

I think I just need a two tile gap for the corridor idea to work, so a pair of powered hatches mounted vertically to give them a single tile to jump in the middle will work.  This way when the power gets cut the hatches close up and I can figure out a new plan (switch to ranged mode or run away).

I heard the sledge could trigger a demolisher, but not from their left side is new info to me (not getting demolishers yet but will try to remember).  Was thinking of using a sledge to mess with them once they arrived, placement is what I'm mulling over.

 

Side note: I finally figured out why I was poor on dukes, I stopped scrapping stuff during loot runs.  Things that stack, like trophies/knobs/arrows/blunderbuss ammo are worth a lot when sold as-is.  Some clothing is worth a lot too but if I need room will scrap them as needed.  Now getting dukes is a lot easier.  I also keep a chest at base I fill up with stuff to sell so the sweet-butt candy gives the most return, just leave a slot or two open in case you have contracts to turn in.

 

[theFlu]

The electrical stuff is quite simple; too simple, imo, but it is what it is.

 

- There's no "not", so you can only activate things with the triggers.

 --- You 'might' be able to blind a camera with a powered hatch, creating a not for a camera. Depends a lot on the patch though, camera vision seems quite unstable.

 --- You can also overload an electric system to create some kind of a 'not', but wiring it up properly is a massive nightmare, and nothing guarantees it'll work the same the next time you load the world.

 

- You can't have two separate inputs into a power user. You can chain triggers, making them behave like an 'or', and you can use a relay between two triggers to create an 'and', but you can't have two separate triggers powering a relay, such that if you lose one, the other would still work.

 

If you want a switch and a trigger in chain, they'll both need to be active for the target to run. No bypassing the trigger with a switch.

 --- You should be able to make a manual switch-position that you 'use' with the wire tool, by bringing the power from the trigger to a relay near you, and then connecting to that from a nearby powered relay/switch. To be able to switch back, you'll likely need an extra relay to "hold" the trigger-connection in your reach.

[walkingwounded]

Yeah, my research into the power options is yielding some interesting info.  I've yet to watch the video tutorials (pending), but I already have some thoughts about the powered hatch.  It would seem it defaults to closing upon receiving power, which implies it opens automatically when power is cut (hence no interaction function).  As long as I can orient it in a way that makes a path when powered I should be able to use this (sort of a free, 'not' action; as in "not powered = open up"). If the motion camera only closes a circuit to enable power to flow, then I may have a plan.  I can use either a motion camera or a plate, the plate can even be on my side so I trigger it to queue up customers, but I'd have to flip the hatches for this to work (will depend what I can find or make by then I guess).

 

power bank -- switch -- motion sensor -- powered hatch (1 or 2)

-when the sensor sees enemies, enables power to the hatch, which 'closes' (path disabled)

-when the sensor sees no enemies, cuts power to the hatch, which 'opens' (path enabled)

-The switch is so I can manually cut the power if I need a breather or to make repairs.

-The default no power state should be the 'safe' state.

 

Since the wiring is single wire (power or no power) there is no way to make a dual circuit toggle switch.  This is okay for a game as it keeps it simple and you do not need to be an engineer to make it work (no shorts or fuses either).

 

Presuming this works, the next phase would be adding an electric wire along the customer counter to slow down the hits and along the corridor to slow the herd.  Using separate power circuits for each this should be doable without any one draining the whole supply.  Expensive though.

 

@theFluI think you got the AND and OR descriptions inverted (an AND would be multiple switches/triggers in series with the load being last, an OR would be multiple switches/triggers to a replay connected to the load)

 

AND:

power source to sensor1

sensor1 to sensor2

sensor2 to the load

result: sensor1 and sensor2 need to be triggered to supply power

 

OR:

power source to sensor1

power source to sensor2

sensor1 and sensor2 connected to same relay

relay connected to the load

result: either sensor will supply power when triggered (one or both)

presumption is you can connect multiple wires to the power source, if not, add a relay after the source

[theFlu]

5 minutes ago, walkingwounded said:

@theFluI think you got the AND and OR descriptions inverted (an AND would be multiple switches/triggers in series with the load being last, an OR would be multiple switches/triggers to a replay connected to the load)

Nope. It's a little weird in this one, trust me

 

Power - trigger plate A - trigger plate B - Door:

Whether you step on A OR B, the door opens.

 

Power - trigger plate A - RELAY - trigger plate B - Door:

You need to stand on both A AND B for the Door to open.

 

The core reason is, this way you can have real simple chains of items functioning in a sensible manner. Mainly intended for the first chain, where you can trigger a thing with several sources. The second chain (and) may be a happy coincidence; the latter trigger will only get powered IF the relay is powered, turning the chain into the 'and' one would expect.

[push2drop]

Hi,

 

our most cheesy contraption so far was a covered walkway (1 wide 2 high) for Zs ending in a few iron hatches in a row - if one gets destroyed by Zs before they drop through, just go back one block and open the next. This lets them come to you in a nice daisy chain and allows you to either shoot or use close combat weapons.

 

Since that was not cheesy enough, we added a 4 by 4 hole down to bedrock on one side and two pusher turrets on the other side... and a shaft halfway down or so, so somebody could lob in a few pipe bombs when things got too crowded down there...

 

Each explosion gave a few 10k XP... after we got that working very smoothly for a horde night around day 60 with max Zs, we decided we had won this game and started over with some restrictions...

 

push2drop

[walkingwounded]

@theFluThank you for the clarification.  That first example is counter to what I would have expected.

I see that relays function differently than I thought, they act a little as switches as well as hubs.  Seems there is a passive power flow with plates that I was unaware of.

Will have to watch the vids soon.

 

My first interpretation was that relays allowed multiple or shared in/out connections (ie: concentrators or splitters) whereas plates and switches were one in and one out only.  Since my initial intended design will only require one switch I would have been okay, but adding in the extra switches would have been an issue (especially playing solo with no way to activate two or more at once for testing).

 

@push2dropThanks of the share.  Glad you were able to call it a success and introduce some new rules to keep it interesting.  Question: by bedrock do you mean the first layer of stone under the clay or is there something under the stone I've not yet reached (I've gone about 25 blocks down chasing ore I think).

 

If the demolishers were configured to self detonate when they get close to the player, or stuck at a wall, they might be more of a problem (sort of a bunker buster zed; or even set to target the structure below/near a player).

[Psychodabble]

On 11/17/2020 at 11:49 PM, walkingwounded said:

@theFluThank you for the clarification.  That first example is counter to what I would have expected.

I see that relays function differently than I thought, they act a little as switches as well as hubs.  Seems there is a passive power flow with plates that I was unaware of.

Will have to watch the vids soon.

 

My first interpretation was that relays allowed multiple or shared in/out connections (ie: concentrators or splitters) whereas plates and switches were one in and one out only.  Since my initial intended design will only require one switch I would have been okay, but adding in the extra switches would have been an issue (especially playing solo with no way to activate two or more at once for testing).

 

@push2dropThanks of the share.  Glad you were able to call it a success and introduce some new rules to keep it interesting.  Question: by bedrock do you mean the first layer of stone under the clay or is there something under the stone I've not yet reached (I've gone about 25 blocks down chasing ore I think).

 

If the demolishers were configured to self detonate when they get close to the player, or stuck at a wall, they might be more of a problem (sort of a bunker buster zed; or even set to target the structure below/near a player).

Bedrock is the bottom of the world. AFAIK, it's about 60-70 blocks down.

[push2drop]

On 11/17/2020 at 11:49 PM, walkingwounded said:

If the demolishers were configured to self detonate when they get close to the player, or stuck at a wall, they might be more of a problem (sort of a bunker buster zed; or even set to target the structure below/near a player).

Hi,

 

not really - we set off a few on purpose while testing... the timer was long enough for them to fall down...

 

push2drop

[stample]

Bed rock is at height 3.  How far down depends whether you're at sea-level or on a mountain.  You'll know when you get there, because it makes the "ding" sound, the same as when you punch something at the Trader.

[GlassDeviant]

On 11/16/2020 at 2:10 AM, walkingwounded said:

(stuff)

You mean something more or less like this? (timestamp should take you to 2h 55m, if it doesn't skip to approximately that point)

 

 

(P.S.: Not my video)

 

 

[push2drop]

Hi,

 

in general yes, but it doesn't work too well here... the pusher stands too far to the left so it rarely manages to push a Z down... and of course the fact that it's all open above doesn't help with the vultures...

 

I was standing in a 1 wide 2 high all concrete elevated corridor (leading to our everyday base) except the floor consisted of iron hatches opening up and cover towards me with the first one open and me right behind that. So any Z actually getting that close would fall through the hatch to the ground level for another round. Should the front hatch be destroyed, I could just step back one block and open the next.

 

In front of the hatches the corridor was open to the left and right (roof was there to prevent Zs jumping), left side was the bottomless pit, right side were two pushers pushing them into the pit - this took care of most Zs by just pushing them into the bottomless pit where my mate was destroying them with clustered pipe bombs (lob in a few unlit and one lit for a much bigger ka-boom).

 

push2drop

[walkingwounded]

Finished watching the videos from the wiki, informative.

 

AND circuit: requires a relay between sequential triggers.

OR circuit: just daisy chain the triggers.

Electric Doors/Hatches are closed without power and opened with power, so have to mount those the correct way (to wall face) to get the desired result in my case.

 

Now I just gotta wire it up and add some blade traps at head height in the corridor of doom.

Thanks all for the input.

 

[walkingwounded]

Final update:

-implemented the original plan, was fun, but I discovered that by the time I had a generator and all the other electrical devices my game stage had advanced to where melee was not the best strategy (with higher difficulty or horde numbers a wave drags on past 4 am quickly and you need candy/booze to do enough damage)

-you do rack up a lot of xp though as long as you limit what traps you use

-settled on floor plates and trip wires as the motion cameras have a large viewable angle that is hard to get just right and the cops seem to spit a them)

-before I had power I did it using a single manual iron or vault hatch and just flipped it as needed (worked as long as I had line of sight past zombie legs)

-I found that placing electric fence wires in front of the service counter was most effective at preventing damage and slowing them down so a sledge (best tool) or club (second best) could clear them out.  I used two sets of iron bars by the floor to keep the spider monkeys at bay until I could shoot them (they can reach through blocks or hatches, but two sets of bars are enough to keep them out of reach)

-I also discovered that setting electric wires along the entire kill corridor (about 7 blocks long) I could use a sniper rifle (with 7 round mag and 8x scope) to clear them all before they made it to the counter, or enough that only a few made it within shotgun or melee range

-post wave damage is minimal depending on the number of exploding zeds

 

Between myself and the zeds are:

2 sets of iron bars on the floor (placed so the bars are at the front orientation and there is a large gap between them)

2 sets of pole blocks on top of the bars (rotated to be on top of the front most bars so they create a double block), upgraded as high as possible (cobble at minimum)

opening is surrounded by full square blocks

overhang blocks 2 tall and 2 above the counter to prevent stacking (they can stack enough to get on to the roof or over the front wall if not)

build yourself a fully enclosed room with wood/iron spikes on the roof and birds are not a worry (add a turret to the roof once the birds are able to take out iron spikes)

upgrade to wet concrete with caution as blocks lose structural integrity when wet (lost my base once due to this, very bad day).

 

Final summary:

-sufficient design for first 70-100 days or so and low upkeep

-sledge is best, as it can drop more zeds with a power swing (splash damage/knockdown)

-not grenade/bomb friendly (limited target grouping)

-later stages or higher difficulty settings will be ammo expensive as melee becomes less effective late game

-ammo efficient mid game if you save at least one ammo type for the horde and use another during the week (eg: use 9mm/.44 during the week and 7.62/shotgun during the horde).  In late stages you can expend four stacks of ammo easy (about 600 rounds), track your expenditures for each horde and plan ahead.

 

My play style:

-medium difficulty (16 concurrent zeds, run at night, sprint during horde)

-raid during days, craft/mine at night, bunker home base

-base near a trader (in Navisgane I set up in the field North of Trader Gen, it is central, quiet and has easy access to water sources, but limited stuff to raid on foot early game)

-use melee during the day (sledge is fun until you get swarmed) with a silenced sniper rifle or a bow/crossbow when being sneaky

--shotgun is my go to when things go bad

 

[canadianbluebeer]

60 dart trap killing platform.

(15 on each side, stacked 2 high, electric fences on each)

requires 2 generators to power.

4 shotty turrets to help in the cage part against birdies

 

Can handle 64 zeds on insane for a long, long time.

Really only have to shoot at the vultures, and the odd leapery type.

 

Feeding said traps though...

 

They don't set off demos either.  You get 50% xp when maxed from just letting the traps do the work.

 

(yeah, it gets boring, but it does work)