Anyone else miss gun crafting from a14/ a15

[-Holo-]

The old system was great and is one of many awesome aspects the game had that's been removed

 

Guns were rare.

Yes it's America, but it's America that's been looted for months? years? since the apocalypse happened.

Guns would be mostly long gone, so finding a part here and there felt rewarding and something that could happen.

(unlike a well lit stack of crates in everyother attic)

 

When you finally took down that n'th zombie solder or cop in a bloodmoon and dared run out and loot the corpse, and they dropped that final part you needed to assemble that gun. It was soooooo good.

 

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I prefered it too. Together with the 600 quality.

Didnt a16 have the same system?

 

Yes. the last Alpha to have them.

Pity sleepers ruined A16

[HungryZombie]

I must be one of the few who doesn't feel guns ever were really rare in any previous alpha (well at least to A14 or 15 which is when I started playing.) unless you mean rare is you found one by day 3 instead of day 1 like now in A18.

[RipClaw]

I must be one of the few who doesn't feel guns ever were really rare in any previous alpha (well at least to A14 or 15 which is when I started playing.) unless you mean rare is you found one by day 3 instead of day 1 like now in A18.

 

I always fought the first horde with bow and arrow in A15 and A16. When I found the schematic I sometimes used the crossbow.

 

Even if you were lucky enough to find a fully assembled firearm in the first week, you couldn't use it for long. Don't forget that you couldn't assemble or repair the weapons without learning the schematics. So if you hadn't found a schematic for a firearm at that time, the firearm could only be used for emergencies.

[Pichii]

I MUCH prefer the current system to A15/16 weapon crafting.

I think they just need some balance for weapon and tool part drops to make it great.

Further, we shouldnt be able to craft 'the best of the best' so we always have areasons to go looting till you have all the loot you want.

 

My biggest gripe in this game (Besides stability and 2 steps forward for 1 step back) is how long basic items take to craft, even with perks.

 

Example:10,000 gunpowder takes IRL 500mins.

[beHypE]

I preferred the old system by a huge margin. I just felt organic and engaging to find a gun and slowly upgrading it piece by piece, checking every part from other similar guns to see if there's a better grip or scope or whatever. You could find a gun and actually feel like it was yours.

 

Today's streamlined system may seem better because it's generic, but it simply lacks flavor. You don't have YOUR gun anymore, you basically just keep your gun until you find a better rolled one. If I had the time and the will to mod the game to my taste, this would definitely be the very first thing I'd do. Bringing back individual guns parts on top of the now implemented mods would be such an amazing combination.

 

As someone stated, it worked great for vehicles aswell. Every single weapon/vehicle is now simply a big unit that can be modded but not pimped, and that is very unfortunate and dull.

 

Sadly though, I think this is one of those "get over it" topics, as I don't see gun parts making a return.

[Liesel Weppen]

I preferred the old system by a huge margin. I just felt organic and engaging to find a gun and slowly upgrading it piece by piece, checking every part from other similar guns to see if there's a better grip or scope or whatever.

Yeah, i remember, spending nights on disassembling and assembling guns with parts, spread over dozens of storage boxes.

 

I want to try darkness falls with some friends, but that that mod brings back the old weapon crafting system annoyes me even before we started playing.

[beHypE]

Yeah, i remember, spending nights on disassembling and assembling guns with parts, spread over dozens of storage boxes.

 

I want to try darkness falls with some friends, but that that mod brings back the old weapon crafting system annoyes me even before we started playing.

 

The old wasn't perfect by any means but I don't have a single doubt it would have been miles better than the current flavorless, generic and non-evolving system if they had put in the time necessary to make it better. Sure there were way too many parts in everyone's chest but a little bit of rework and a little bit of balance can go a long way. It sure had way more potential for finetuning than what we have now.

[Laz Man]

I preferred the old system by a huge margin. I just felt organic and engaging to find a gun and slowly upgrading it piece by piece, checking every part from other similar guns to see if there's a better grip or scope or whatever. You could find a gun and actually feel like it was yours.

 

Today's streamlined system may seem better because it's generic, but it simply lacks flavor. You don't have YOUR gun anymore, you basically just keep your gun until you find a better rolled one. If I had the time and the will to mod the game to my taste, this would definitely be the very first thing I'd do. Bringing back individual guns parts on top of the now implemented mods would be such an amazing combination.

 

As someone stated, it worked great for vehicles aswell. Every single weapon/vehicle is now simply a big unit that can be modded but not pimped, and that is very unfortunate and dull.

 

Sadly though, I think this is one of those "get over it" topics, as I don't see gun parts making a return.

 

Hopefully when legendary items are introduced, guns will have more character.

 

Altho guns are more available earlier than later, I feel it adds more to the game then it detracts.

 

Now it's more feasible to use guns sooner than later which gives players more choices to choose from instead of everyone using the bow by default 90% of the time.

 

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The old wasn't perfect by any means but I don't have a single doubt it would have been miles better than the current flavorless, generic and non-evolving system if they had put in the time necessary to make it better. Sure there were way too many parts in everyone's chest but a little bit of rework and a little bit of balance can go a long way. It sure had way more potential for finetuning than what we have now.

 

It may feel like that now because we are experiencing the transition of weapon systems. Once there is a t1>t2>t3 of each weapon type along with legendary variants, I hope most will not miss the old version much.

[Liesel Weppen]

Maybe, but currently i can not imagine a way how this system of weapon assembly should work without becoming a crafting hell.

Since each part has inidividual stats you can't really stack them, you have to look at every single part. Even if you could bundle them that's just usefull for longtime storage. If you want to assemble new weapons you have to unbundle all of them and then still have tons of single items in your inventory.

 

I agree, it's a very flexible system which makes "your" weapon grow up with you. But it is a crafting marathon i didn't like at all.

 

At least there need to be some shortcuts to completely disassemble a weapon, completely assemble one weapon with the highest stats parts from your inventory, reassemble all ordered by stats... and then it is still item spam.

 

I remember back then we got a pistol lvl ~35, we thought "oh crap, sell it". Some time later another player spent hours for crafting guns and look there, it was a lvl 35 pistol but had a 600 barrel...

 

I clearly see the better flexibility and higher individualism in this system, but i still dislike it. For me it was just to much bloat. Storage and clicking bloat. And for me it's not a goal of the game to spend hours in your inventory, reassembling weapons.

[beHypE]

Maybe, but currently i can not imagine a way how this system of weapon assembly should work without becoming a crafting hell.

Since each part has inidividual stats you can't really stack them, you have to look at every single part. Even if you could bundle them that's just usefull for longtime storage. If you want to assemble new weapons you have to unbundle all of them and then still have tons of single items in your inventory.

 

I agree, it's a very flexible system which makes "your" weapon grow up with you. But it is a crafting marathon i didn't like at all.

 

At least there need to be some shortcuts to completely disassemble a weapon, completely assemble one weapon with the highest stats parts from your inventory, reassemble all ordered by stats... and then it is still item spam.

 

I remember back then we got a pistol lvl ~35, we thought "oh crap, sell it". Some time later another player spent hours for crafting guns and look there, it was a lvl 35 pistol but had a 600 barrel...

 

I clearly see the better flexibility and higher individualism in this system, but i still dislike it. For me it was just to much bloat. Storage and clicking bloat. And for me it's not a goal of the game to spend hours in your inventory, reassembling weapons.

 

Well, you said you can't imagine a way how the system could work with weapon assembly and... in a matter of 5 minutes you came up with some ideas. See where I'm getting at ? I don't think anyone thought gating every recipe behind a perk was gonna work, yet A18 came around and proved us wrong. Imagine how awesome gun assembly and specific weapon part searching/crafting could become, if madmole thought it would be a good idea.

 

The way I see it, and why I think it is so important is simply that... the game HAS become a looter shooter. Sure, you craft stuff, and build, and cook, but I don't remember the game being so overly emphasized on just shooting stuff because bullets are a non-issue. There's more zombies than ever in horde nights, brass is everywhere, so it's really a numbers game during horde nights, and that makes daytime a walk in the park ammo-wise... so, you shoot stuff. And let's face it... the mechanics for a shooter are subpar and that's a kind word to use. So adding complexity in the maintenance/upgrade/customizing mini-game specifically for guns that make up such a huge portion of gameplay would... only seem a good idea, given how their gameplay is lackluster.

[Liesel Weppen]

Well, you said you can't imagine a way how the system could work with weapon assembly and... in a matter of 5 minutes you came up with some ideas. See where I'm getting at ?

I knew such an answer will come. You obviously overread the part where i wrote "BUT (it would still be an anoying system)".

 

So adding complexity in the maintenance/upgrade/customizing mini-game specifically for guns that make up such a huge portion of gameplay would... only seem a good idea, given how their gameplay is lackluster.

I don't see how stupid drag&drop and storage-spam would add complexity. It's as useless as the current lockpick-RNG. The current modifications work very similar to that and imho add more value to the game.

With the weapon parts you only took the best parts you had. With the modifiers you need to decide what you want. Higher damage, better range, silencer, faster reload...

 

So you don't want the game to become a looter shooter but ask for more complexity in weapons? That's a bit contradictory.

 

Minigames would be another thing. Lockpick like in Fallout 3... Maybe a minigame to disassemble a weapon, if you fail the entire weapon is broken and useless (can be scrapped to scrap metal then). But it's still anoying to disassemble weapons and reassemble them, with a minigame even more anyoing.

The game is not a real life simulator!

 

And basically it was a looter shooter since i play (a15). With a little bit tower defense on the blood moons. In the end everything was for the loot. Especially the BM back then, when Zs almost always dropped loot.

There is no real survival in the game. Food is easy, water is easy, weather has almost no effect.... And if you do a dungeon poi, you do it for.... the loot.

[beHypE]

I don't see how stupid drag&drop and storage-spam would add complexity. It's as useless as the current lockpick-RNG. The current modifications work very similar to that and imho add more value to the game.

With the weapon parts you only took the best parts you had. With the modifiers you need to decide what you want. Higher damage, better range, silencer, faster reload...

 

Because it doesn't have to be exactly like it used to, but bring back the essence of slowly improving your gun over and using bits from other guns to form a better one... you're both talking like I want A16's gun assembly back the exact way it used to be and that it was the holy grail. It wasn't ! But don't tell me repairing/selling every gun, or scrap/sell if the gun level = 1 is better in any form...

 

Also, you nailed what I exactly hate with every argument I've read from madmole in regards to guns (or LBD, same exact thing). You talk like both worlds can't fit together ! Jeez, I never talked about getting rid of mods, but couldn't mods simply be added on top of the gun assembly system ?

[Limdood]

Anyone else miss gun crafting from a14/ a15

NOPE!

[Liesel Weppen]

Because it doesn't have to be exactly like it used to, but bring back the essence of slowly improving your gun over and using bits from other guns to form a better one... you're both talking like I want A16's gun assembly back the exact way it used to be and that it was the holy grail. It wasn't !

Maybe you missunderstood my posts. I didn't like the crafting system for weapons in A16. I said nothing against improving guns while progressing in the game. It currently does, too. But with only 6 levels and you can add modifiers, also an increasing amount with higher level weapons.

 

But the question is different: How do you want to achieve what you want? You say the A16 system was not that good anyway. The current is to simple? So how do you imagine a system that plays like you expect? Any ideas, suggestions?

 

"The old system was bad, the new system is even worse" doesn't help anybody, that's just complaining.

 

I also didn't say that mods and components can not work together. I just said that the old components system was just bloat, because there was no higher level/complexity with assembling a better gun from components. You always just took the highest level parts and assembled them to a weapon to get the highest possible level for the overall weapon. Basically it would be easier to "merge" two weapons together with one getting the good parts and the other one the worse parts automatically, without do the clicking stuff manually.

 

To make this REALLY a thing, i could imagine having random stats on components, but that needs some more changes. Maybe a barrel brings accuracy or damage. A clip brings larger size or faster reload (e.g. having 10 bullets with 150% reload speed or having 15 bullets with 100 reload speed). Things similar to this would make assembling weapons from components make at least a little bit interesting, because this way you can really customize your weapon instead of just put things together resulting in the highest level.

But here the circle closes: That's exactly what the modifications do now. So this would work of course, but it's just redundant.

BUT even with this the components are still storage spam.

 

And it would make the game even more a shooter.

[beHypE]

I said the old system was far from perfect but way better than what we have today, mods apart. I never said it was bad. I don't have THE solution, for I didn't think it through enough and I'm no game designer. I don't think everytime someone comes up with an opinion or some criticism he needs to pair it with the ultimate solution, or does he ?

 

All I'm saying is I liked the fact a gun was the assembly of multiple components rather than a single unit. It made every weapon unique in the sense that you could have say a Q10 barrel and a Q500 grip. In that playthrough you'd die to find a better barrel.

 

How could that have been expanded upon ? Every component holds 1-3 attributes, say a magazine has a specific magazine size and reload speed for, a barrell influences travel speed and damage falloff, etc. Each weapon gets unique in the sense that you could have a huge magazine and ♥♥♥♥ damage falloff, to go with the aforementionned example.

You could then add schematics or perks for specific parts to make crafting a certain weapon part relevant.

 

Let's not forget that A18 made it so that you mostly just use ONE weapon throughout the whole game, the one you specialized into. I don't think it would be that farstretched to actually "take care" of your weapon throughout your journey. Because right now it's really binary, lvl 1 gets scrapped and sold, lvl 2+ gets repaired and sold, unless it's both your weapon AND higher level than the one you have already. How's that engaging for such a core aspect of a shooter ?!

[Prisma501]

Not missing it one second.

 

Cheers

[Liesel Weppen]

I don't think everytime someone comes up with an opinion or some criticism he needs to pair it with the ultimate solution, or does he ?

Not the ultimate solution but at least suggestions or ideas, what could be changed.

 

All I'm saying is I liked the fact a gun was the assembly of multiple components rather than a single unit. It made every weapon unique in the sense that you could have say a Q10 barrel and a Q500 grip. In that playthrough you'd die to find a better barrel.

And i already said, that ends up in a complete gun with an overall quality averaging the quality of all components, but not any special stats. Nothing special, just getting the highest posible complete gun out of your components.

 

How could that have been expanded upon ? Every component holds 1-3 attributes, say a magazine has a specific magazine size and reload speed for, a barrell influences travel speed and damage falloff, etc.

That's exactly what i wrote in my previous post. And this would still be a huge item bloat.

And the same effect could be achieved by introducing modifiers with random stats.

 

Let's not forget that A18 made it so that you mostly just use ONE weapon throughout the whole game, the one you specialized into.

That's not a problem of the weapon crafting but a problem of how the current skills are defined/divided. That was discussed already very much dozens of times in dozens of other threads.

Many people are not using different guns for different situations because of guns, they use the same gun because of the skills they have put points into. As already mentioned elsewhere using a gun without having skilled for it anything feels like a soft air.

That also affects weapon combinations. "Nobody" now uses automatic guns for ranged and a machete for melee. Just because of the skills "force" you not to do it this way. But to be honest, i'm becoming tired of this skill discussions. Who hasn't understood the basic problem with that yet, most propbably will never understand it.

[beHypE]

Quite honestly I think I've voiced my opinion enough already and I'm past the age of going into quote wars deconstructing everything to tear it out of context. Peace !

[Boidster]

Preferred old system as it gave me something to do in base during the evenings: breaking down looted guns/parts and rebuilding our arsenal to be slightly better. It fit well with our play style.

 

New system is fine, too.