POI Main loot to Quest only

[theFlu]

How would you feel about making the end loot of POIs spawn only/mostly when doing an active quest? Put some thematic loot containers around the POIs, military bases with gun safes and ammo boxes. Tool shops with tool boxes etc. But leave the "main loot" spawn in when the POI is reset for a quest. As an easy example, spawn the Main loot through "helper blocks" that are empty when generating the house normally, and filled when resetting it for a quest.

 

Pros:

- makes the "normal" POIs a little more natural, while keeping the possibility for the jackpots via quests

- buffs questing (depending on how much the POIs get repopulated with "other" loot), which seems like a TFP goal, but also gives a way to dish out rewards "per group" and not just "per quest", might make balancing quest rewards a little easier

- removes the nerdpoling for easy loot (I don't, but .. hey. one less reason to whine about nerd poling in general)

- removes the disappointment of "hey, someone already took the main loot" in MP

 

Cons:

- removes easy loot

- makes non-questing less viable yet again, but could probably be balanced, maybe even better than currently

[SenpaiThatIngnoresYou]

I think it's fine the way it is.

[Limdood]

I constantly remind myself that I'm allowed to loot and clear POIs without actually being on a quest. I do that because sometimes I don't like the quests offered, or I just want to mix it up and clear an area, or clear a certain kind of POI.

 

This change would remove that reminder, because there'd be almost no reason to enter a POI I didn't have a quest for. And I think that would be a big loss for the game.

[Calfuron]

I question the inclusions of quests at all in the game. For me, quests move the game further away from a unique zombie survival simulator towards more mainstream RPGs.

 

Now should every POI have as much loot as they currently do? Probably not.

[theFlu]

Hmm.. that reminder to "loot a house once in a while" is sort of what I'm after, albeit from a different angle. I'll try to elaborate a little, although this will be more train-of-thought than anything full fledged..

 

For me the POIs are starting to look more and more like "just the obstacle on the way to the loot at the top." Just looting the goods pile feels silly for "not doing it properly" AND on the other hand, wading through the junk feels also silly as I'll always know there's a faster way to get 90% of what I expect to find in the place.

 

Just spreading out the loot across the POIs would make a decent difference there; without an abundantly clear jackpot at the end there would be no "proper" way to clear a POI, just the way you happened to choose that time. Sure there'd be POI-specific hot spots once you know the locations for gun safes and such, but at least they wouldn't be in every POI.

 

The paths through POIs and the stories they occasionally tell are a nice feature as well, so in order not to lose that, having for example the clear quests encourage the "proper way through" via some mechanic would be nice. Although, curious people will do them for fun, so that part isn't exactly necessary.

 

This whole quest dependant loot-at-the end just popped to mind when thinking about how to balance the questing efficiency between SP and MP.. one way would be to have the POI spawn the quest rewards, and that's where the loot room idea comes in.

[mr.natural]

If it bothers you, just play without loot respawn.

[theFlu]

If it bothers you, just play without loot respawn.

 

I do.. or rather, I have it on the default 30 days, and never go after the same POIs I've already done, except by accident. Wouldn't change a thing for me, really.

 

More importantly, doesn't change the issue I'm talking about one bit. Whether I loot the the same jackpot once or every day, it's still the nature of nearly every POI to have a single concentrated stash worth way more than the rest of the place combined?

[Khulkhuum]

My main problems with POIs are:

1. Zombies respawning in full. Sorry, but i'm against it. There could wander a couple of them back in, but a whole horde just to stay there? If there was a mechanic of Wandering Hordes taking over a POI sure, but as they magically appear, no.

2. POI reset because of quests. Sure it may sound good on paper, but you don't really know what POI a quest refers to (unless it's pretty close), so you will eventually run into clearing the same place (after it resets). Not to mention the possibility of clearing a POI before activating a reset to have double loot...

 

I don't mind WH just appearing (player sounds could go for miles, attracting far away groups, even from out of map range, because noone is stealthy all the time and gun sounds are heard from big distances). BUT! Hordes magically spawning in nearby POIs, but not going towards the player?

 

Additionally, having the loot spawn after clearing a quest would make some POIs always avoided. You don't know which buildings will get a quest. Unless you could choose on a map which POI to clear for a new trader/survivor base or which POI to search for a hidden cache (which might not be there, this is why you search them).

 

If quests were less dynamic and more functional (add to that quests for strengthening a POI against a wave of Zs, saving someone from a POI, etc.). For now quests are a way to reset a POI and/or get free loot (buried treasure, hidden cache), nothing more. I don't mean it's awful, but could be worked upon to have a variety like the trader got a rumour of a hidden cache, but you have to check if anything is there.

[Sjustus548]

Instead of doing it this way we could change the quest rewards to offer a loot box as a reward. After finishing a quest instead of selecting an item from the ones offered you would get a box that contains random loot. The quality and quantity of loot would depend on the type of quest, buried supplies, fetch, clear, fetch/clear, and the tier of quest. That way the big jackpot of loot at the end of POIs would be removed and it would make quests more worth it to do.

[Blackrook]

Sort of agree with this, the big loot pile on top is too tempting to skip to - and often too easy to find ie go to the highest point.

Spread the good loot about a bit more. reduce the big piles but give a extra loot on hand in like sjust548 said.

 

I'd quite like a lucky dip option on the rewards anyway, for the times that you don't fancy the reward offered.

[HungryZombie]

I'd say keep the ammo & supplies levels as they are. Looting is a nice source of consumable items. The really good stuff like armor & weapons should be in containers that are rarer to find.

[theFlu]

1. Zombies respawning in full. <snipz all around>

2. POI reset because of quests. <snipz all around>

 

I don't mind WH just appearing (player sounds could go for miles, attracting far away groups, even from out of map range, because noone is stealthy all the time and gun sounds are heard from big distances). BUT! Hordes magically spawning in nearby POIs, but not going towards the player?

 

Additionally, having the loot spawn after clearing a quest would make some POIs always avoided. You don't know which buildings will get a quest. Unless you could choose on a map which POI to clear for a new trader/survivor base or which POI to search for a hidden cache (which might not be there, this is why you search them).

 

If quests were less dynamic and more functional (add to that quests for strengthening a POI against a wave of Zs, saving someone from a POI, etc.). For now quests are a way to reset a POI and/or get free loot (buried treasure, hidden cache), nothing more. I don't mean it's awful, but could be worked upon to have a variety like the trader got a rumour of a hidden cache, but you have to check if anything is there.

 

For 1., for sure; repopulate the place somewhat, even all of it if you must, but at least don't hide the respawns in the already open closets, that's just hilarious .. Although, if you repopulate the loot, add some zeds along that for good measure.

 

For 2, I'm not all that worried about that.. I don't disagree much either, but.. the current functionality is bad when it resets right in front of your eyes, but the Mole implied they'll try to reset them while you're not looking (while accepting the quest or on the way there or something similar). Not resetting for fetches if possible would be nice too.

 

As the variety of quests increase with NPCs and such, I'm sure it'll find some kind of a balance. "Feel free to raid the same bandit camp again, the stupid buggers just rebuild it all over again"

 

 

Hmm, Sjustus548's system would work too, although that way it would still give each "shared" quest completion the full rewards? But yeah, for the POIs it would of course be identical, just one less knob to tune SPvsMP questing.

 

Hmm, for that SPvsMP, have a "coin safe" stashed at the top instead of giving dukes as quest reward. That way the amount of brass granted to a group would be the same as an individual. (Looking at you brass-balance-thread and your endless rants... )

 

No vehement defense of the current system over the proposal, I'm surprised

[Khulkhuum]

1. This is why i think the respawning sleeper mechanic is bad. You will always get another set of sleepers in their respective spots, even if more varied (because they sometimes spawn in lesser amounts and different places). Still, you will see Zs hunched down in open closets, on the floors and in ceiling hideouts ready to jump at the player "again". The first time it can be explained that the house was "magically sealed" and that is why they fell "asleep" in the closets, on the floor, against the walls, etc. But when you reenter (even more so when you destroyed A LOT of the POI) they will be there.

 

Sure, until the event system is in place it can stay as is, but i expect zombies slowly taking over a building, rather just appear in full force. Make it so sleeper counts rise very slowly, like every 3 days (or every BloodMoon) 1-3 Zs come in and after a day or two they fall asleep becoming sleepers, but if you walk in the POI while they are not yet asleep, they will not be.

 

2. Similar as above. Considering we don't have bandits, i don't expect Zs to rebuild a POI, not to mention fill it with loot again. Even with bandits, they will not be refurbishing buildings top to bottom, filling with loot and putting in zombies. Even new bandits inside don't fully fit in after you clear out a big POI.

 

Considering rebuild - it should count the amount of time passed from your last visit and "replacing" the amount of changed blocks in view of the time. Also, some things should be omitted from resetting, for example resource piles (cobblestone, cement, bricks, etc.), devices (if i scrap all 10 computers i don't expect Zs or bandits to put in a new batch, same with air conditioners, vending machines, etc.) and perhaps some crates. I'd be more willing to believe someone put in some crates, new furniture, doors, toilets and sinks, rather than piles of resources. Especially if everything was rebuilt.

 

Considering variety, it's there. I once looted a POI before resetting it for a quest. Maybe it wasn't a big difference, but i found a few bags in different spots and some Zs in different places.

 

My proposition for a new quest choosing stands: Quests would be associated with POIs, meaning each POI would have a state it is in. Special flags for zombies in, hidden stash probability, resources hidden, survivor possibility, etc. When you talk to the trader, the map pops up of places you've seen and you can choose which POI you are "raiding", with additional info what it would entail (hidden stash, clearing, survivor seeking). Not only that, but you would be able to fail, meaning sometimes the stash isn't there, the survivor is already dead or the POI is too destroyed for a future base (it could be done with a script to replace some of the solid blocks into frames, etc.).

 

There are tons of possibilities, but sadly not enough time to code everything, not to mention not everything is possible. As it is, i see the sleeper respawns as not ideal, while quests a work in progress, even considering the big amounts of fun it brought me.

[kidmo31]

Honestly I think they need to make that end loot room less cheesable . Like the "Hidden base" houses once you do it you know where to dig every time you see that house to cheese the end. If they had a locked exit with several steel layers that only opens when the loot is found naturally. Normal house dungeons should have a more procedural path where the houses are not all the same. so the loot pile is not all in the same area. And so not every house has that loot pile and more distributed loot to encourage exploring and not skipping.

[AtomicUs5000]

Honestly I think they need to make that end loot room less cheesable . Like the "Hidden base" houses once you do it you know where to dig every time you see that house to cheese the end. If they had a locked exit with several steel layers that only opens when the loot is found naturally. Normal house dungeons should have a more procedural path where the houses are not all the same. so the loot pile is not all in the same area. And so not every house has that loot pile and more distributed loot to encourage exploring and not skipping.

 

Evenly distributed loot throughout a POI solves the head straight to the good stuff problem, but it introduces another one. Dungeon POIs become nothing but pure grind with no satisfaction of having reached some goal.

 

We are better off where if a POI is large enough, it has a few different possible loot rooms and the one used is randomly selected. The other possible locations become a major hazard with extra zombies.

 

Some POIs could have double steel reinforced panic rooms where you have to locate the way to open them, like a switch, somewhere random in the POI. After finding it, you can enter the loot room. Other POIs could have heavily reinforced and unpickable safes that have a key to such rooms. Maybe sometimes you need the key found in a completely different POI.

 

So much they could do.