No Tier 6 Crafting

[e1ghtbit]

Wouldn't that, by definition, be game changing then?

[Hek Harris]

Choices are crucial. The overabundance is boring.

[Kalen]

Wouldn't that, by definition, be game changing then?

 

Sure, if you ignore context

[e1ghtbit]

In what context does "improve item stats" not equal a change in that item?

[Kalen]

In what context does "improve item stats" not equal a change in that item?

 

Not sure what you are getting at or are trying to get me to say..... mods change an item, that is not in dispute.

 

I'll try one more time:

 

It was stated that a Q5 can have better stats than a Q6

It was stated that in that case, a Q5 would still be worse than that Q6 because of the mod slot

I state that I don't believe that is necessarily true

 

Hopefully that is clear enough so we can stop going round and round here.

 

Thanks

[e1ghtbit]

Maybe I should have said important instead of crucial too. Point is that you said it was not a game changer to be missing some of these in lieu of stats that could be equal to t6. I'm of the opinion that it is item changing enough to make the slot important. And that slot is the only reason I personally use the T6 gear.

 

IF crafted T5 gear had a chance to add that slot (however important you deem it) then I would put some points into crafting and use that as an equal avenue for progression. The fact is that it does not at this time (and likely won't because I don't see TFP even considering opinions on this matter) means that crafting is ultimately a waste. All those random parts I find are going to be either sold to the trader or scrapped and sold to the trader. Just dukes with extra steps IMO.

[Roland]

This is just like when zombies no longer dropped loot. Disappointing at first but then you get used to it. If they reversed that now it would feel completely OP and unnecessary.

 

Someday we will look back at the days when we had purple everything and shake our heads at how OP we were playing.

[meganoth]

Fortifying, diamond tip, heavy hammer, the one that increases stone damage for my pickaxe.

 

Fortyfying and diamond tip makes you use less repair packs. Big deal, not something anyone would call crucial. The mod that increases stone damage saves a little time, not crucial

 

Yes, everything you perk in or add to your weapon makes you slightly better, but that doesn't mean it is crucial. Look up the word if you are unsure.

 

In fact, since stone doesn't hit back and no single mod makes you get lets say 30 or 50% more stuff in the same time, nothing of that is what you would call a game changer

 

How about I do armor?

 

Mufflers, improved fittings, armor increase and storage.

 

Mufflers are crucial to agility players, merely nice to have for everyone else. Storage is absolutely in the nice-to-have category, with a vehicle you can always guarantee to not overfill or you simply use a perk point for packmule instead. Armor increase is one that you usually never want to go without, so it is important. But not crucial, otherwise nobody would run around in anything but heavy armor. Some people choose to not get hit instead of relying on the best armor.

 

Or guns?

 

Cripple em, red dot, silencer and extend mags

 

Considering that you said silencer I guess you mean pistol/SMG. I would prefer 2x scope to the red dot but maybe they improved red dot from A17.

 

Cripple'em has a 20% chance to cripple a zed. Since it is only a chance you can never depend on it saving your life in a critical situation. It is surely nice to have, but that it only works sometimes shows perfectly that it can't be a critical mod you can't live without.

 

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EDIT: Ah, okay, saw your last post. With "important" I can agree. The thing is, assuming you will play the game about 3-5 weeks without finding a Quality6 pistol, will you only run around with Q3 pistols for all that time even if you could craft a Q4 pistol at day 8 and a Q5 pistol quite easily at day 14 ?

[Roland]

Maybe I should have said important instead of crucial too. Point is that you said it was not a game changer to be missing some of these in lieu of stats that could be equal to t6. I'm of the opinion that it is item changing enough to make the slot important. And that slot is the only reason I personally use the T6 gear.

 

IF crafted T5 gear had a chance to add that slot (however important you deem it) then I would put some points into crafting and use that as an equal avenue for progression. The fact is that it does not at this time (and likely won't because I don't see TFP even considering opinions on this matter) means that crafting is ultimately a waste. All those random parts I find are going to be either sold to the trader or scrapped and sold to the trader. Just dukes with extra steps IMO.

 

If they adjust the loot tables properly and make QL 1 & 2 common, QL 3 uncommon, QL 4 rare, and QL 5 very rare and QL extremely rare then there will absolutely be people crafting. QL 1 & 2 will be for scrapping for parts to craft your own high quality piece in your area of specialty.

[e1ghtbit]

And the radiation removal? How about the fortifying mod that allows you to heal up without investing heavy into healing factor? How about the armor pads that allow you to take more damage.

 

I probably should have said important. I'm sure parroting every change as great for the game is fine for some. I love this game and I don't think every change is a good one. I've seen it go from a loot game to a craft game to a loot game to a craft game plenty of times. They haven't nailed the middle just yet. Right now it's a loot game. I'm just trying to help find the middle because right now crafting is only for building mats and maybe ammo if TFP removes bullets from the trader as well.

 

- - - Updated - - -

 

If they adjust the loot tables properly and make QL 1 & 2 common, QL 3 uncommon, QL 4 rare, and QL 5 very rare and QL extremely rare then there will absolutely be people crafting. QL 1 & 2 will be for scrapping for parts to craft your own high quality piece in your area of specialty.

 

The adjustments to loot tables will only add to the time to T6. I'll use the crap tier I find until I snag that T6 I want but I don't feel like wasting slots in crafting tools\weapons is smart. Even with the respec juice added.

[Kalen]

The adjustments to loot tables will only add to the time to T6. I'll use the crap tier I find until I snag that T6 I want but I don't feel like wasting slots in crafting tools\weapons is smart. Even with the respec juice added.

 

Unlocking crafting is only a part of what the perks do. For example the mining perk allows you to craft higher QL picks.... but it also makes you much better at mining. In fact, the gain you get from the perk is greater than any individual mod.

[e1ghtbit]

If you use the bunker buster mod and do more damage to stone you don't need to invest as heavy into Miner 69er.

[Roland]

The adjustments to loot tables will only add to the time to T6. I'll use the crap tier I find until I snag that T6 I want but I don't feel like wasting slots in crafting tools\weapons is smart. Even with the respec juice added.

 

You're saying that you only ever spent the points on those gear to be able to craft them at higher quality and you had zero interest in the bonuses and other benefits you gained from the perks?

[e1ghtbit]

I kind of guess I am? If I'm putting points into Miner 69'er and a side bonus is I can craft better tools does that matter if never craft those tools?

[Kalen]

I kind of guess I am? If I'm putting points into Miner 69'er and a side bonus is I can craft better tools does that matter if never craft those tools?

 

Look, I get it.... I hated losing the ability to craft Q6 at first. But, once I accepted that Q5 was the new "high end" gear and Q6 was something that you luck into, not something you can count on or plan for, I was ok with the change. To me, that 4th mod slot is now a really cool bonus instead of a necessity.

[Kattla]

When the stats/numbers can vary as much as they can, i wonder why we still have tiers. Perhaps it would be better if the stats determined the color tier, or just do away with the color tiers altogether. To me it just seems like a complete mess at the moment.

 

However, back to reality, well, ingame reality at least.

I only play creative mode these days, thank for that tip Roland, and so my experience ain't that good.

 

IMO, if the effort to craft a max color tier weapon is greater then what it takes to get lucky and loot one, then

yes, i'll say that the max color tier weapon should also , if not solely, be craftable. Greater effort/investment, greater reward. No Greater effort/investment = less reward, that just feels wrong. After all, a crafter would still need to find a lot of stuff to scrap for parts.

 

There is one caveat , i see scrapping tools/weapons for part, and making a new one as simular to the old workbench combining mechanic. And by that i am not entirly opposed to the requirement to make a higher tier require quite a lot of parts, even though i find it highly unimmersive in some cases like the baseball bat.

Besides, if we could craft even a tier 1 from basic materials, we'll reintroduce spamcrafting since a crafter would craft x number of tier 1 items, scrap them and make T5/T6 from the parts.

[meganoth]

I probably should have said important. I'm sure parroting every change as great for the game is fine for some.

 

Thanks for the compliment . I actually have critizised the game for being too craft- and trader-friendly since A16. I have been playing multiplayer with 3 friends and inevitably looting became useless after just about 2 weeks because the crafter in our group could build the highest quality stuff. And the other half was already bought from the trader. Looting was just for getting some money together.

 

My biggest problem with crafting is that it is so dependable. I like it when the game gets me in situation where I just don't find the right items and I have to change my plans and adapt. Or I find something that is so good that I change my plans happily. I like the unexpected.

 

I might not really like choosing between two equally nice mods when that situation comes up, but in the grand scheme of things it is better because then I can play it with one mod installed and try the other mod in the next game.

 

So yes, I'm fine that quality 6 is something I can never depend on. I could play weeks and never find a q6 pistol. It is a carrot before my nose I might even never get to taste in a game. It makes finding it soo much better.

[RipClaw]

Unlocking crafting is only a part of what the perks do. For example the mining perk allows you to craft higher QL picks.... but it also makes you much better at mining. In fact, the gain you get from the perk is greater than any individual mod.

 

Of course the perk itself also gives you a bonus but you don't have enough points to invest in everything you use. The mods are the only thing that helps you to improve all your weapons and tools.

 

Some mods give you incredible bonuses. For example, the drum magazine doubles the size of a weapon's magazine. On the Junk Turret and on the M60 you will notice that most.

[e1ghtbit]

I can see that perspective and I appreciate that maybe not everyone sees the tiers between as a means to an end like me. Looting this game is easy though. Even with the loot adjustment that Roland is talking about. The good loot boxes aren't moving around in POI's. Once you know where they are you know where they are. Maybe it'll take 10 heavy iron boxes to get you the purple SMG you wanted. Or you'll have to hit a few extra working stiffs for a steel hammer\axe\pick.

 

For me, that means I can totally skip crafting outside of what I need for my base. Hell I barely cook in this game now because it doesn't have that benefit that wellness provided. If that's the game they want then I'm sure players like me will have an easier time adjusting.

[Roland]

I only play creative mode these days, thank for that tip Roland, and so my experience ain't that good.

 

I suggested that you play creative? And you listened? But now your experience is no good?

 

I'm suspecting sarcasm here....

[RipClaw]

Look, I get it.... I hated losing the ability to craft Q6 at first. But, once I accepted that Q5 was the new "high end" gear and Q6 was something that you luck into, not something you can count on or plan for, I was ok with the change. To me, that 4th mod slot is now a really cool bonus instead of a necessity.

 

Of course you can adapt your game to this but everything has already been shortened by one slot. Q6 had 5 slots in A17. So you don't have to give up just one slot but two slots.

[Kattla]

I suggested that you play creative? And you listened? But now your experience is no good?

 

I'm suspecting sarcasm here....

 

My experience it playing A18 without creative mode/regular game is close to none. That is what i meant, but i see the possible double meaning now, my bad. And yes, you did suggest it back in early A17e. Thanks.

[Kalen]

I suggested that you play creative? And you listened? But now your experience is no good?

 

I'm suspecting sarcasm here....

 

I took it to mean her experience wasn't good as a means of comparison since most of us do not play creative.... but I may be underestimating the desire to troll you.

 

- - - Updated - - -

 

Of course you can adapt your game to this but everything has already been shortened by one slot. Q6 had 5 slots in A17. So you don't have to give up just one slot but two slots.

 

Yup, I actually like it this way now. I keep multiple items with different mod loadouts depending on what I need. Far more interesting than one item that does everything, IMO.

[HungryZombie]

I've heard a lot of people say that.... and I've even believed it at one point. But the more I think about it I'm changing my mind. Are there even 4 excellent mods for a particular item? There are good mods, but game changing mods? I don't believe there is.

 

Each mod also adds damage

[Kalen]

Each mod also adds damage

 

Really? I didn't realize that. Do you know how much it adds?