Most recent patch and crafting.

[Tristaris]

"Items crafted by players can now have random stats. No random stats on primitive/stone items. Weapon and similar perks add 1 crafting quality per level so you can eventually craft QL 6 items."

 

I'm pretty fond of this change. I love how it can be randomized now and how the players can craft QL 6 now. It makes me pretty damned happy, I'm not going to lie.

[OzHawkeye]

Can't say I agree with this one, but oh well, win some, lose some.

[Viktoriusiii]

"Items crafted by players can now have random stats. No random stats on primitive/stone items. Weapon and similar perks add 1 crafting quality per level so you can eventually craft QL 6 items."

 

I'm pretty fond of this change. I love how it can be randomized now and how the players can craft QL 6 now. It makes me pretty damned happy, I'm not going to lie.

 

WHY PIMPS WHY???

Random stats on crafting? Do you want spamcrafting back? Because that is how you get spamcrafting back.

Also why is T6 craftable? Like... that was the whole point of this rework wasnt it? To give us a reason to go out looting!

[Sawth77]

I think, given the right conditions, that players crafting top tier items is a good thing. If only the LBD process still were in place, it would actually make more sense.

 

I also like the random stats on crafted items. Anyone who crafts things can relate that making multiples of the same item will have at least some variance. Doing work with stones and semi-precious gems, there's always something distinct about the finished product (even if the mats came from the same exact rock). So far, i like the changes made in A18.

 

Now, TFP....about crafting swords and other heavy/2h weapons.................

[Tristaris]

Not sure, I'm still going to go out looting anyway because you can still potentially find something better out in the world anyway. That, and generally just need a bunch of things in general for crafting in the first place. I'm assuming the material costs at the time being are probably still crazy insane for each added quality tier. A lot of people were also complaining about t6 being far too common early on, and TFP might be working it into crafting and potentially lowering the spawn on high end gear instead. Who knows, really?

 

I'm actually okay with randomized stats on crafting, and gives plenty to do if you're not quite content with something you have.

 

Not a change that bothers me too much, really. I've been enjoying A18 immensely, but I can see why some people either like or dislike changes like this one.

[Wulf]

Makes total sense to make T6 craftable, since Legendary Weapons will be taking the loot-only spot, Soon .

 

Also, the amount of materials (gunparts) needed will make it very very hard to spamcraft them anyway.

[Jihh]

To give us a reason to go out looting!

 

I haven't checked the numbers yet, but to craft a quality 6 item, you need to scrap 5-6 items of the same quality right? If your item doesn't come out the way you wanted it to, you need additional 4-5 items of lower quality for the next try.

Now let's assume in the late mid to end game every 1 out of ten items you find is already of quality 6. That's the point where you start to slowly bring your gear up quality 6. Most groups have a lucky looter at that point and many solo player too. So the chance for quality 6 drops is actually that high at that point, if not even higher.

If my estimations are about right, you'll find ~1 quality 6 item per two you craft. You also won't be able to craft anything without looting.

 

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying the change is good or bad. I'm not sure about it, since in A17 crafting didn't need those weapon parts it needs now, so I can't judge how crafting quality 6 items fits the game in A18. I only know that before the change crafting gear was basically useless, so the whole overhaul had absolutely no point.

 

So my point isn't about if it's good or bad, it's about your statement that there isn't any reason for looting left, while there still isn't, since you won't be able to craft any high tier and high quality weapon/tool/armor without looting. Actually, since it takes tons of levels to be able to craft everything you want at quality 6, you will find tons of high quality items on the way.

 

I assume that with that change I will craft like 1-3 (bow, knife and whatever I spec into next) before my whole gear is at quality 6 through looting. So at the time I could craft for the other slots, I will already have good items on them. Being able to get the last the last optimizations done per crafting, when I'm finally able to craft everything at quality 6, so in the late end game, right before I start a new game, probably won't ruin my fun or keeps me from looting until then.

I'm happy we can try if this change leads to a better looting-crafting-balance. If it's bad, it still can change, it's still an alpha build.

[Viktoriusiii]

...

 

You aremost likely correct (haven't tried it yet)

 

But it seems so counter intuitive...

PPL complain about crafting beeing not worth it and looting to op... but instead of simply lowering the costs they add more stuff that nobody asked for...

But its tfps after all... that has always been their method xD

"Hey A is broken and B would be nice"

"Sure have H Z and @34!"

"But... thats not what we..."

"You players are never satisfied"

[Roland]

The difference between now and then is that there are parts needed for crafting guns that can only be found in loot. They are not themselves craftable. So even being able to craft quality 6 items you will need to go out and loot a lot to get the parts you need. Now that they've made this change I kind of wish they would go back to individual parts for guns instead of the more forgiving category parts for guns.

 

But...there is still plenty of reasons to loot and now also better reasons to craft.

 

Spam crafting as it was will be impossible because you will be limited by how many dupes you can craft by how many parts you have found.

[HungryZombie]

WHY PIMPS WHY???

Random stats on crafting? Do you want spamcrafting back? Because that is how you get spamcrafting back.

Also why is T6 craftable? Like... that was the whole point of this rework wasnt it? To give us a reason to go out looting!

 

Good luck spam crafting and finding enough parts. Especially at high quality levels.

[Tristaris]

I'm in agreement, to craft t6 equipment it's going to take a good amount of grinding. Sure, people are finding t6 items here and there, and that's okay but to 'mass produce' items, it's going to take a hell of a grind in order to do so with the current material cost for higher tier items.

[Limdood]

FYI, you are REQUIRED to go out looting in order to craft Q6, top tier items....every top tier item in the game requires "parts" which can't be crafted, only scrapped or bought, so you can't level in your base and come out in full Q6 top tier gear.

 

Without this change, there was no point in crafting gear...by the time you had the 15 parts for a Q5 item, AND had found the schematic, you'd already found a Q5 or 6

 

AND this now makes that first level of a skill actually valuable. Especially early game, dipping 1 point into a skill should now mean instant access to level 2 items.

[Viktoriusiii]

Guess I overreacted. As I said didnt play it yet and forgot that in A18 you actually only get parts that you cant craft.

So point taken.

[Jihh]

You aremost likely correct (haven't tried it yet)

 

But it seems so counter intuitive...

PPL complain about crafting beeing not worth it and looting to op... but instead of simply lowering the costs they add more stuff that nobody asked for...

 

I was one of those people giving feedback to the crafting-looting-balance. I can't remember complaining in my thread or posts. Complaining is stupid anyway, since the game is still in alpha and thus everything could change at any moment, if TFP decides it isn't right as it is. Afterall we are just trying out different possibilities and give feedback on them. Of course there are people complaining, I'm not denying that. But to sum up multiple kinds of feedback as complaining, with primarily constructive feedback among it, doesn't make you look more constructive than them.

Especially if you started your first post with:"WHY PIMPS WHY???". Just saying.

 

But back to the topic:

IMHO just lowering the costs for crafting won't do much to the previous situation, since it's not just the mats that were making crafting worse than looting. In one of my games I have quality 4+ stuff from looting without lucky looter, while I can craft two (out of ~12 weapons, tools and armor I use). Just one of those two items I could craft is at quality 4, while I already have the other one on quality 6. So with materials lowered I could at best craft one item for my whole gear. Assuming the costs were as low as I get back from scrapping, lowering the costs would just lead to spam crafting in the hope for getting a slightly better item of the same quality.

Nobody with an intelligent resource management would do that, especially since the next lootbox could have a better item. It gets even worse the moment you find a decent quality 6 item, because then no crafting or even spam crafting could get you a better item. So not only wouldn't the problem be tackled, it would even allow for spam crafting to what you wrote:"Do you want spamcrafting back? Because that is how you get spamcrafting back."

 

Also low material costs enables groups to equip your whole group, so if everyone specs into different weapons, tools and gear, we are back to crafting only (assuming looting would get a nerf, so they actually aren't already fully geared up). With high material costs even a looting nerf would keep a balance on crafting and looting for groups.

 

Crafting always being subpar to looting, even at its highest level, leads to every slot being a lost crafting slot as soon as you get a decent quality 6 item. So if by "luck" you find those items early you are planning to specialize in, gear crafting you won't have any reason to craft any gear at all in that particular game. Crafted gear needs to be able to be competitive, to make any sense at all. It just needs to be expensive and include a risk similar to looting. That's kinda solved by needing a lot of materials you only get from looting.

 

All in all I'll have to disagree, the change TFP made, isn't something completely different than I thought of, but actually tends to go in the right direction.

[OzHawkeye]

Guess I overreacted. As I said didnt play it yet and forgot that in A18 you actually only get parts that you cant craft.

So point taken.

 

True, it's a valid point I also hadn't considered. Given the parts requirement, I don't mind this change nearly so much.

[Limdood]

this does technically, minutely make crafting stronger than looting, BUT only for those skills that are completely maxed out.

 

Reasoning:

I will eventually find a Q6 AK-47 or M60....Just like it is currently, it's stats will be randomized to within a range for Q6 loot. On the other hand, EVENTUALLY, I will be able to craft SEVERAL Q6 AK-47s or M60s...at a cost of a bunch of mats and SIX scrapped copies of the gun per craft, it will be hella expensive and slow, BUT with access to being able to make several of them, I'm sure a crafter could, within say 3 crafts, get an AK-47 or M60 that is objectively a tiny bit better - still within a narrow range, but objectively better.

 

I personally don't see a problem with that though...in order to get that super amazeballs M60 gun, I have to find a minimum of 6 machine-type guns and scrap them and save the parts (and an additional 6 for each new attempt), I need to find a specific schematic AND I have to invest all the way to the very pinnacle of a given attribute. Whereas the person relying on looting top end weapons simply has to go looting until they find the item. Dangerous looting, sure, but the crafter now has to do arguably just as much looting, AND rely on all those other things working out too.

[Gr.o.m.]

this does technically, minutely make crafting stronger than looting, BUT only for those skills that are completely maxed out.

 

Reasoning:

I will eventually find a Q6 AK-47 or M60....Just like it is currently, it's stats will be randomized to within a range for Q6 loot. On the other hand, EVENTUALLY, I will be able to craft SEVERAL Q6 AK-47s or M60s...at a cost of a bunch of mats and SIX scrapped copies of the gun per craft, it will be hella expensive and slow, BUT with access to being able to make several of them, I'm sure a crafter could, within say 3 crafts, get an AK-47 or M60 that is objectively a tiny bit better - still within a narrow range, but objectively better.

 

I personally don't see a problem with that though...in order to get that super amazeballs M60 gun, I have to find a minimum of 6 machine-type guns and scrap them and save the parts (and an additional 6 for each new attempt), I need to find a specific schematic AND I have to invest all the way to the very pinnacle of a given attribute. Whereas the person relying on looting top end weapons simply has to go looting until they find the item. Dangerous looting, sure, but the crafter now has to do arguably just as much looting, AND rely on all those other things working out too.

 

You realize theat you need weaponparts not grindable mats to craft weapons. So how can now crafting be stronger than looting if you need looting or bying at the trader to get the materials to craft?

[Limdood]

You realize theat you need weaponparts not grindable mats to craft weapons. So how can now crafting be stronger than looting if you need looting or bying at the trader to get the materials to craft?

 

my point was that this means that, unlike the previous build, where a looted Q6 item was objectively superior to the Q5 max that you could get from crafting, in this build, someone who crafts their weapon will EVENTUALLY technically get a minute advantage over someone who loots their Q6 weapon...as the crafter, through looting, would be able to eventually craft an item a tiny bit better than the average Q6 item you'll find in loot.

 

And that's fine because the crafter needs to invest the skills, materials AND time and effort looting to get that miniscule bonus over the (only) looter who spends the time and effort looting.

[Jihh]

For every x items you need to scrap to craft one quality 6 item, you have x chances to loot a quality 6 level. With the change both have the same possible stats they can come with. So the chance of looting a quality 6 item decides the chances of getting a better item by looting or crafting. In the end some will have better luck with crafting, others with looting. Considering that this only applies to items you fully perked and that it takes a tons of levels to perk into every weapon, tool and armor you want to equip, looting still is way more powerful overall.

[Teal]

WHY PIMPS WHY???

Random stats on crafting? Do you want spamcrafting back? Because that is how you get spamcrafting back.

Also why is T6 craftable? Like... that was the whole point of this rework wasnt it? To give us a reason to go out looting!

Seems like a completely random and unneeded change IMO. Maybe they intend to add legendary items?

[Laz Man]

Not sure what to think yet. On paper it looks like a nice way to get higher quality weapons if RNG keeps screwing you with low quality weapons in loot.

 

However, once you do loot a high tier weapon the skill loses its usefulness pretty quickly as the gains become marginal. At which point it might be more effective to just sell the extra weapons or parts so you can buy the weapon you want once it pops up on the trader (less risk because you can see what you get before buying).

[camelCase]

I'm pretty fond of this change. I love how it can be randomized now and how the players can craft QL 6 now. It makes me pretty damned happy, I'm not going to lie.

 

Pretty much has saved A18 for me. This keeps looting strong but bridges the huge gap with crafting without really diminishing anything. I'd also be fine with legendary items provided it's a reward for doing a particularly hard POI- if it gets implemented RNG based, however, that puts us right back in the same situation.

 

Well done, fun pimps, well done.

[tricorius]

Without this change, there was no point in crafting gear...by the time you had the 15 parts for a Q5 item, AND had found the schematic, you'd already found a Q5 or 6

 

Not only that, but since anything you crafted was fixed stats, it was fairly low chance that the crafted item would even be as good as a looted T5 item. You couldn't come close to touching a T6.

 

This at least brings it into possible parity. You still have a chance to craft a low-stats item; then you've wasted a LOT of materials on something which might be worse than what you're trying to replace. So, now you get to scrap it and go out and find another 4-5 items (or hope the traders have your parts).

[njugul]

Also why is T6 craftable? Like... that was the whole point of this rework wasnt it? To give us a reason to go out looting!

 

Is someone stopping you from going out looting?

[Kalarro]

Also why is T6 craftable? Like... that was the whole point of this rework wasnt it? To give us a reason to go out looting!

 

There is a ton of reasons to get out looting in a18. There was no frakin reason to crafting, considering looting is free and crafting needs you to invest a ton of perk points.

 

EDIT: actually Im surprised patch notes dont say anything about reduced finished items in the loot and increased item parts chance. Right now you just find everything finished before you have the parts for crafting it. I would remove the parts requeriment for everything except fireweapons and change it for gathered items, but well, I know it wont happen.