Some A17 thoughts

[OnlyMeiya]

You will never make everyone happy. I did not enjoy the older versions and did not play as much as I do with this version. Is it perfect? Nah, but I understand people don't like it. I don't try to change people minds about it. We all like what we like.

 

 

Would it suck for me if it changed back? Ya, but I am not going to blame players or be upset if it did. My point is that, I feel gaming companies should disagree at times with players and it is ok to do it without being too worried.

 

 

If people don't like this version, update it until they do. If they always miss the older version and you don't want to go back to it. Nothing you can do about it, because changing it back people would be upset also.

 

 

 

My point is that, We are still in the alpha stages of the game and moving forward I am sure things will get tweaked. I am sure the devs are understanding the points of the flaws of a17 and will tweak it. I just see people want the old system back, and i don't think that is good feedback moving forward as how can we get this system to work for you better.

 

Just reduce some of the tedious early game grinding, I shouldn't have to do 3 head shots every single damn zed.

[Rager]

Just reduce some of the tedious early game grinding, I shouldn't have to do 3 head shots every single damn zed.

 

 

I just use clubs myself. I only use my bow when I really have to with less risk, early game I feel using a melee weapon and having your bow as backup will save you lots more time, than just pure bow because like you said 3 head shots stink.

[manni44]

Just reduce some of the tedious early game grinding, I shouldn't have to do 3 head shots every single damn zed.

 

this is perfect bait for turn ur difficulty down ppl

[JoelleEmmily]

This assumes that those really were the reasons for the power peninsulas and rejuvenation pods. (Unless you have a source?) Also those sound like really console arcadey gimmicks to me.

 

Also, don't become a detective... or a researcher... If you can't put two and two together to make four... you lost a hand and at least two fingers.

[Kilroy83]

This assumes that those really were the reasons for the power peninsulas and rejuvenation pods. (Unless you have a source?) Also those sound like really console arcadey gimmicks to me.

 

This also assumes people don’t enjoy the early game where you are scraping by with trash gear and weak abilities. You don’t enjoy it. I do. We cancel each other out. Who else you got?

 

I don’t play for hours doing something I don’t enjoy. I enjoy the actual journey of progressing from weak to strong. I like playing for a time with no pack mule so that when I do purchase a rank I feel the difference.

 

100% with you, it's nice to reach end game but the moment diminishing returns start to kick in it gets a little stale, happens in every game though unless you got something to farm like in arpgs.

If you want to prolong gameplay don't make basic things slower (slower construction tools, stamina always getting in the way, etc) make stuff harder to get, give us item quality back, give us books back and make a multi layered progression system, our only mission shouldn't be to kill zombies for skill ups, it's survival, some times you fight some times you don't, those who always pick up fights don't live long.

[Roland]

Oh my God, lots of people don't like the version, lots of people do... Rather than spinning your wheels defensively arguing how great it is, spend that time determining if the "vocal minority" has a point...

 

...be the 13th man... This could literally be a make it or break it moment for the company going forward, don't squander it over pride...

 

I don’t know what that’s about. I’m sorry I like A17 better than A16? Roland CAN’T be sharing his true feelings of enjoyment and fun for the newest version. He MUST be shilling for the company.

 

Do I want it to be better? Of course I do. But I’ve already read plans by devs to make it better so I’m not worried. I’m glad they removed level gates from the attributes. The current level gates on certain recipes are lower than where they were when the game first released.

 

I know that stamina and passive xp gains aren’t good but that battle is won since Joel agrees and is retooling those things so ranting on and on about those things is pointless. RWG is also undergoing changes.

 

Finally....learn by doing...as far as I know that ship has sailed. The current version is what they plan to go gold with and I DO find it fun to purchase perks and I do feel it offers great choice. Sue me.

[Rager]

I don’t know what that’s about. I’m sorry I like A17 better than A16? Roland CAN’T be sharing his true feelings of enjoyment and fun for the newest version. He MUST be shilling for the company.

 

Do I want it to be better? Of course I do. But I’ve already read plans by devs to make it better so I’m not worried. I’m glad they removed level gates from the attributes. The current level gates on certain recipes are lower than where they were when the game first released.

 

I know that stamina and passive xp gains aren’t good but that battle is won since Joel agrees and is retooling those things so ranting on and on about those things is pointless. RWG is also undergoing changes.

 

Finally....learn by doing...as far as I know that ship has sailed. The current version is what they plan to go gold with and I DO find it fun to purchase perks and I do feel it offers great choice. Sue me.

 

You are not alone in finding it fun, and I think people tend to forget that it is still a alpha. I look forward to the future.

[Guppycur]

I'm not even accusing you of being drunk on koolaid this time. I'm simply saying you are trying way too hard to argue, and making it abundantly clear you're not even trying to listen.

 

You, gazz, and mm. Team obstinacy. You're arguing for the sake of arguing.

 

I said lots of people love it; I fully acknowledge that. You are failing to acknowledge that lots of people hate it.

[Roland]

Also, don't become a detective... or a researcher... If you can't put two and two together to make four... you lost a hand and at least two fingers.

 

So you have a low tolerance to respectful disagreement. You pouted, then you got sarcastic and passive aggressive, then you ranted some bizarre dialogue from FF6, and now you’ve progressed to ad hominem (although in light of your Latin you’ll probably claim it’s all just joking)

 

All I have pointed out is that there are games with gating that are successful. I even told you straight out that Fallout is an inspirational source for this game. It is perfectly fine to discuss how you would like to improve the current system but please try not to have a melt down when someone doesn’t agree with you.

[Roland]

I'm not even accusing you of being drunk on koolaid this time. I'm simply saying you are trying way too hard to argue, and making it abundantly clear you're not even trying to listen.

 

You, gazz, and mm. Team obstinacy. You're arguing for the sake of arguing.

 

I said lots of people love it; I fully acknowledge that. You are failing to acknowledge that lots of people hate it.

 

I hereby acknowledge that lots of people hate it. Duh.

 

I even know what they hate:

 

1 LCB

Stamina and hunger drain

Level gates

The grind of the early game

Locked FOV

Not enough passive xp gains

Digging zombies

Broken RWG

AI that focuses on the one weak spot

Easily cheesed pathing

Inability to do large building projects from Day 1

Removal of learning by doing

Practically no zombie loot

Too much xp focused on killing zombies

Too many dungeon POIs

[JCrook1028]

So Roland you say Madmole is not telling the Truth?

he said few days ago in another thread to me i should and could mod it if i dont like how the Devs Vision of Alpha 17 is, but if i cannot mod it cause the Devs dont add the needed things cause they dont share the Priorities to mod it then Madmole was not telling the truth.

 

Cause i cannot mod something if i cannot add a Description to something so Players understand what this item is needed for or how it works.

 

So no its not easy to understand, cause we are not talking about months of development, adding such a simple thing would not take much time and it would make modding much easier and user friendly.

 

Isn't it already possible to change the localization files they sdx modding? I could swear some mods have already done so, perhaps I am wrong tho.

[OnlyMeiya]

this is perfect bait for turn ur difficulty down ppl

 

 

Its on default difficulty. If I was on a harder one then that argument might have some weight behind it.

[OnlyMeiya]

I hereby acknowledge that lots of people hate it. Duh.

 

I even know what they hate:

 

1 LCB

Stamina and hunger drain

Level gates

The grind of the early game

Locked FOV

Not enough passive xp gains

Digging zombies

Broken RWG

AI that focuses on the one weak spot

Easily cheesed pathing

Inability to do large building projects from Day 1

Removal of learning by doing

Practically no zombie loot

Too much xp focused on killing zombies

Too many dungeon POIs

 

To cite what I don't like about this list.

 

1 LCB for multiplayer. It doesn't matter to me in single.

Early game grind (Because its literally just too tedious and has forced point spending )

Not learning by doing.

 

To much emphasis on killing zed for XP when it takes 3 headshots or more to kill zed early game. 3 headshots is just too much for default difficulty when crafting a much better bow and using steel arrowheads (something you can find a few of even at level 1 ) does not increase your damage enough to lower it to 2.

 

Why bother? Why also bother with 10%+ more IAS? So I can waste my ammo 10% faster? At a certain point of IAS my personal ability to aim for headshots consistently will not be able to fully utilize the IAS from the perks.

 

Also wooden spikes are just too damn weak and don't justify their wood cost anymore.

 

Too many "GOTCHA!" Moments, zed are hidden everywhere in corners and out of sight places on purpose, in rafters/ceilings. Its very annoying! If that was only the case for "Some POI's randomly" but freaks sake, not ALL of them.

 

 

Level gates- Don't really care as long as it doesn't involve the forge, I understand it being around concrete/steel and bullet/gun production.

Stam/Hunger Drain- Don't care but the softcap needs to be adjusted, it drains too fast IMO.

Locked FOV- I couldn't care less.

Digging Zed- Couldn't really care less, but they attack to fast when they kneel. Adjust imo.

Broken RWG- Don't really notice it.

Easily cheesed pathing- Couldn't care less.

Inability of large projects by day 1. Err.. what?

No zed Loot- Actually the change for zed loot being more rare and better is a great change!

Dungeon POIs- Eh, those are fun to explore though especially if they have lots of hidden areas with great loot stashes!

 

 

I just use clubs myself. I only use my bow when I really have to with less risk, early game I feel using a melee weapon and having your bow as backup will save you lots more time, than just pure bow because like you said 3 head shots stink.

 

 

But that isn't how I want to play, why should I be forced to melee so early when I have very limited healing abilities to compensate for taking damage in close quarters?

 

I take damage, I get chased forever by vultures.

[Guppycur]

Isn't it already possible to change the localization files they sdx modding? I could swear some mods have already done so, perhaps I am wrong tho.

 

They don't push from the server. That's his point. They need client installs (like sdx mods do).

[JoelleEmmily]

This assumes that those really were the reasons for the power peninsulas and rejuvenation pods. (Unless you have a source?) Also those sound like really console arcadey gimmicks to me.

 

Also, go watch a clip of Gordon Ramsy to see when I think about your statement, while I teach to to prove a suppression with incidental evidence.

 

Triangle island is not involved in any quest, it has one type of random enemy, who, does not attack you, and stays invisible until you do something to him. He has one attack, which is a time based decay death, he is vulnerable to one attack, doom or something, which is also death, he gives out more esper points then any other character in the game, before or after the ruin, and ONLY esper points. If you go their without the proper spell, you either do nothing to him and keep missing, or if you use some spells, he wakes up and kills you. If you don't go there, nothing happens... no quest is lost... it literally doesn't need to be in the game... it's a *shhhh shhhh* a secrete.

 

Roland: But you can't be sure... and you can't summarize without knowing something for absolutely sure.

 

Here's another cookie. Would you like milk? It was common practice back then to put helpers in for your players. Even the Nintendo Power Strategy guides told you to go to those place to exactly that... level really quickly. And arcades... didn't have those kinds of tricks because... *shhh another secrete* they wanted you quarters.

 

Roland: That's still not proof.

 

FINE! Here's another cookie. You really want those... |cookies... Roland...|. See there's two lines there...

 

Skill trees were first truly introduced with Diablo to try to increase difficulty. Sometimes you had to chose between one aspect of character design or another... but the tree was more or less designed to be filled out as you reached the end... the games wasn't open world, although you could go back to previous areas. It was meant to be played a crawler, and tailored its mechanics as such.

 

Roland: Which is what 7DtD is doing.

 

Shhh shhh, here's another cookie. There was no level requirements, except to get the points. Building games like Warcraft, the first one, had level specific gates, you could only build such and such when you build so and so... and this was used do to the limitation of diverse resources. You had trees, gold, food, gas, crystals, whatever... usually only two or three. Instead of needing to go out and find a special McGuffin to make progress, they made you build something... upgrading was added to give you a slight edge.

 

You see... Trees were invented to advance character development for epic boss battles... gates where invented to simplify resource management... Trees where augmented with cascading unlockables... but still meant to be used to prepare for boss battles. Every other enemy was usually rubber-banded to keep the player engaged, but not overly swamped.

 

Then Fallout 1 and 2 happened... created by interplay... and they tried to combine the two... and... secrete secrete... it worked. AND ABSOLUTELY EVERYONE JUMPED ON THE BAND WAGON. Fallout 3 happened, it moved from a top down to first person... things stated to hemorrhage, New Vargas gave it a shot in the arm... Fallout 4 made it much worse, they tried to add a building aspect that is really... bad...

 

Before you say anything, here's another cookie... if 7 Days is Walking Dead, meets Fallout, meets tower defense, meets whatever... it's attempting to combine several distinct genre with their own distinct mechanics... none of which were designed to work with one another... Gating supposes a need to hold the player back so not to leap forward due to lake of diversity... Skill trees are designed to enhance rubber banding and prepare a player for epic battles in a linear progression... tower defense had upgradeable installations to ward off waves off attacks, but rewards successful warding off... limiting abilities like caring space, quality of craftables, weight, are carrot and stick techniques utilized to compel a player to improve their abilities instead of hunkering down... and states like agility and perception, are first person stat sheets designed to specialize a character into a particular class...

 

At the moment... every one of those competing mechanics... are being consolidated into one progression matrix... it not a stat sheet, not quite a tree, not really a cascading perk table... it is literally... nothing... it is nothing it needs to be to do everything it wants to. It's 30 years of game design... in 5 or 6 genres... trying to boil itself down to 4 or 5 character building pages...

 

Roland: Fun Pimps is working this stuff out, blah blah blah-be-blah...

 

I just gave you the cliff notes version of of stuff it's taken my entire life to learn... get your own damn cookie.

 

- - - Updated - - -

 

So you have a low tolerance to respectful disagreement. You pouted, then you got sarcastic and passive aggressive, then you ranted some bizarre dialogue from FF6, and now you’ve progressed to ad hominem (although in light of your Latin you’ll probably claim it’s all just joking)

 

All I have pointed out is that there are games with gating that are successful. I even told you straight out that Fallout is an inspirational source for this game. It is perfectly fine to discuss how you would like to improve the current system but please try not to have a melt down when someone doesn’t agree with you.

 

It was a joke, but not for your benefit... In comedy, you would be called the subject.

 

---edit---

 

I'm betting myself a hundred bux that my next thought is, "you can't be reasoned with, I'm out."

[Roland]

1 LCB

People should focus more on this one. Some respectful convincing and explaining why one active LCB doesn’t work might make the difference.

Stamina and hunger drain

Mission accomplished. Devs are working on this and also making overeating and overdrinking show up on the UI so that players will see their stamina remain at max while their hunger reduces from 150%

Level gates

Still a WIP. By all means keep discussing ways under the new system to make level gates not necessary.

The grind of the early game

Personal preference. I love the early game. Don’t see a need to change it but those who hate it feel free to voice your objections

Locked FOV

Keep at it.

Not enough passive xp gains

Mission accomplished. They are increasing it.

Digging zombies

AI that focuses on the one weak spot

Easily cheesed pathing

Faatal repeatedly has said this is version one and that it would have new problems and new exploits from the old. I don’t see the need to rant as if these three issues are here to stay if we don’t act incredulous enough about them.

RWG

Kinyajuu has said the current isn’t final. That should end all the objections right there until we see his fixes

Inability to do large building projects from Day 1

I disagree strongly that builders should get a free pass on progression in the default game. If they want to be able to build super structures from day one then they should have to mod the game that way or play creative mode. People ask for options but whenever the building option that already exists is mentioned you are accused of being condescending...

Removal of learning by doing

Battle lost guys. Sorry. Mourn and move on. Continuing to argue and rant is pointless. The perk and point system we have now is what the game will ship with. Discussing ideas to make it better is welcome. Demanding we go back is not. Those of you who are angry will criticize TFP for not listening. Those of us who are not angry will praise TFP for sticking to their vision in the face of stiff criticism.

Practically no zombie loot

Madmole states he’s going to increase it a bit. But it will never go back to how it was. Devs are adamant and frankly enjoy the lootless zombies. I love the change, myself.

Too much xp focused on killing zombies

Balancing continues. Discussions on ideal balance are great. Rants about how it is now are futile since the way it is now will be different in the next update.

Too many dungeon POIs

Good discussion topic imo.

[Guppycur]

Lcb's were discussed ad nauseum when first found out about to no avail... The party line was people only wanted them to stop zombie spawns, which is immensely retarded because that wasn't ever their purpose prior to a17 so in essence that was the pimps own fault.

 

Bedroll should do that, as before, and lcb should be what it was intended for.

 

...dunno what the logic was in changing it to its current state, but it's one of those things that was replaced despite it never being broken in the first place.

 

Someone used valuable coding time to change something that worked fine. For. No. Explainable. Reason.

 

The "change" broke large pve servers, and REALLY fracked pvp servers.

 

For. No. Explainable. Reason.

 

Hope this helps, and btw, I couldn't give less ♥♥♥♥ about lcb's, I immediately toss them on spawn.

 

- - - Updated - - -

 

Oh, ad static loot containers to your list. It's dumb and serves about as much purpose as all of those pallets... No, those have mats, like concrete ... So static loot containers are even more useless.

 

Every dungeon poi essentially looks the same.

[OnlyMeiya]

Also, go watch a clip of Gordon Ramsy to see when I think about your statement, while I teach to to prove a suppression with incidental evidence.

 

Triangle island is not involved in any quest, it has one type of random enemy, who, does not attack you, and stays invisible until you do something to him. He has one attack, which is a time based decay death, he is vulnerable to one attack, doom or something, which is also death, he gives out more esper points then any other character in the game, before or after the ruin, and ONLY esper points. If you go their without the proper spell, you either do nothing to him and keep missing, or if you use some spells, he wakes up and kills you. If you don't go there, nothing happens... no quest is lost... it literally doesn't need to be in the game... it's a *shhhh shhhh* a secrete.

 

Roland: But you can't be sure... and you can't summarize without knowing something for absolutely sure.

 

Here's another cookie. Would you like milk? It was common practice back then to put helpers in for your players. Even the Nintendo Power Strategy guides told you to go to those place to exactly that... level really quickly. And arcades... didn't have those kinds of tricks because... *shhh another secrete* they wanted you quarters.

 

Roland: That's still not proof.

 

FINE! Here's another cookie. You really want those... |cookies... Roland...|. See there's two lines there...

 

Skill trees were first truly introduced with Diablo to try to increase difficulty. Sometimes you had to chose between one aspect of character design or another... but the tree was more or less designed to be filled out as you reached the end... the games wasn't open world, although you could go back to previous areas. It was meant to be played a crawler, and tailored its mechanics as such.

 

Roland: Which is what 7DtD is doing.

 

Shhh shhh, here's another cookie. There was no level requirements, except to get the points. Building games like Warcraft, the first one, had level specific gates, you could only build such and such when you build so and so... and this was used do to the limitation of diverse resources. You had trees, gold, food, gas, crystals, whatever... usually only two or three. Instead of needing to go out and find a special McGuffin to make progress, they made you build something... upgrading was added to give you a slight edge.

 

You see... Trees were invented to advance character development for epic boss battles... gates where invented to simplify resource management... Trees where augmented with cascading unlockables... but still meant to be used to prepare for boss battles. Every other enemy was usually rubber-banded to keep the player engaged, but not overly swamped.

 

Then Fallout 1 and 2 happened... created by interplay... and they tried to combine the two... and... secrete secrete... it worked. AND ABSOLUTELY EVERYONE JUMPED ON THE BAND WAGON. Fallout 3 happened, it moved from a top down to first person... things stated to hemorrhage, New Vargas gave it a shot in the arm... Fallout 4 made it much worse, they tried to add a building aspect that is really... bad...

 

Before you say anything, here's another cookie... if 7 Days is Walking Dead, meets Fallout, meets tower defense, meets whatever... it's attempting to combine several distinct genre with their own distinct mechanics... none of which were designed to work with one another... Gating supposes a need to hold the player back so not to leap forward due to lake of diversity... Skill trees are designed to enhance rubber banding and prepare a player for epic battles in a linear progression... tower defense had upgradeable installations to ward off waves off attacks, but rewards successful warding off... limiting abilities like caring space, quality of craftables, weight, are carrot and stick techniques utilized to compel a player to improve their abilities instead of hunkering down... and states like agility and perception, are first person stat sheets designed to specialize a character into a particular class...

 

At the moment... every one of those competing mechanics... are being consolidated into one progression matrix... it not a stat sheet, not quite a tree, not really a cascading perk table... it is literally... nothing... it is nothing it needs to be to do everything it wants to. It's 30 years of game design... in 5 or 6 genres... trying to boil itself down to 4 or 5 character building pages...

 

Roland: Fun Pimps is working this stuff out, blah blah blah-be-blah...

 

I just gave you the cliff notes version of of stuff it's taken my entire life to learn... get your own damn cookie.

 

- - - Updated - - -

 

 

 

It was a joke, but not for your benefit... In comedy, you would be called the subject.

 

---edit---

 

I'm betting myself a hundred bux that my next thought is, "you can't be reasoned with, I'm out."

 

Very much agree with you here on all these points, very well said too.

[OnlyMeiya]

People should focus more on this one. Some respectful convincing and explaining why one active LCB doesn’t work might make the difference.

 

Mission accomplished. Devs are working on this and also making overeating and overdrinking show up on the UI so that players will see their stamina remain at max while their hunger reduces from 150%

 

Still a WIP. By all means keep discussing ways under the new system to make level gates not necessary.

 

Personal preference. I love the early game. Don’t see a need to change it but those who hate it feel free to voice your objections

 

Keep at it.

 

Mission accomplished. They are increasing it.

 

Faatal repeatedly has said this is version one and that it would have new problems and new exploits from the old. I don’t see the need to rant as if these three issues are here to stay if we don’t act incredulous enough about them.

 

Kinyajuu has said the current isn’t final. That should end all the objections right there until we see his fixes

 

I disagree strongly that builders should get a free pass on progression in the default game. If they want to be able to build super structures from day one then they should have to mod the game that way or play creative mode. People ask for options but whenever the building option that already exists is mentioned you are accused of being condescending...

 

Battle lost guys. Sorry. Mourn and move on. Continuing to argue and rant is pointless. The perk and point system we have now is what the game will ship with. Discussing ideas to make it better is welcome. Demanding we go back is not. Those of you who are angry will criticize TFP for not listening. Those of us who are not angry will praise TFP for sticking to their vision in the face of stiff criticism.

 

Madmole states he’s going to increase it a bit. But it will never go back to how it was. Devs are adamant and frankly enjoy the lootless zombies. I love the change, myself.

 

Balancing continues. Discussions on ideal balance are great. Rants about how it is now are futile since the way it is now will be different in the next update.

 

Good discussion topic imo.

 

Very well said Roland, I think a lot of topics could be considered squashed at this point and we could focus on improving the existing ones.

 

So for the perk system, why not split your "Perk Points" so that they can be properly distrubuted instead of a consolodated 1 level 1 perk for anything.

 

You get passive xp for mining, you get perk points for that type and all types related too it.

Same for combat

Same for medical.

ect

ect

ect

 

Its "Sort of" the same as learning by doing while keeping the new system in place.

[Aldranon]

Both skyrim and fallout are story driven and therefore helps the player through the progression.

That way the gates are not so obvious.

Also If you ventured to far away you would get slaughtered by high tire enemies and learned the hard way to get back to story progression.

 

7dtd dont have a story or high tire areas. Just unreversable game stage.

 

I'm eager for any nicely done, primary storyline. I would also like secondary "living storylines", something that uses what the player does as fodder for the stories sub-plot directions. Maybe even change the entire main plot, if the player focuses on a certain path/play-style enough. (I.E. Attack the good guy faction enough).

 

 

I would say the wasteland biome is a type of danger zone. Maybe it's not so extreme as some Skyrim areas, but living in the wasteland biome will get you a LOT of leather!

[Exxodous]

I'm not even accusing you of being drunk on koolaid this time. I'm simply saying you are trying way too hard to argue, and making it abundantly clear you're not even trying to listen.

 

You, gazz, and mm. Team obstinacy. You're arguing for the sake of arguing.

 

I said lots of people love it; I fully acknowledge that. You are failing to acknowledge that lots of people hate it.

 

While I acknowledge many people hate it, the question I have is - how do you "fix" what they hate without "breaking" what others love?

 

I'll give an example:

 

I've seen some people post that they hate that it take 4 or 5 arrows to kill a zombie in the beginning of the game. Their reasons seem to revolve around the fact that it is unrealistic and grindy.

 

I on the other hand feel that if I can one shot a zombie from the start there is no point in progressing to better skills or weapons/mods. Thus I like the mechanic/progression.

 

I don't claim either opinion is right or wrong, just different. What I don't understand is how they mesh the two opinions into an enjoyable experience for both. And this is just one mechanic that a simple (and by simple I mean I can do it) XML modification will change.

 

I'll give an example where I don't align with TFP:

 

They chose a small backpack to start with encumbrance. I've seen many who love the difficult decisions you must make with limited space.

 

Me? While I acknowledge my 80 slot mod makes the game easier, I abhor not being able to collect my stuff lol. I see the "survival" challenge and even think encumbrance makes sense, the small backpack does not work for me.

 

Two very different playstyles for sure. How do you make the vanilla version appeal to both?

 

Multiply this by the 100's of varied opinions, playstyles and game mechanics and I can tell you I sure do not envy TFP at all.

 

Thank god for mods is all I can say, hopefully everyone can find a modder whose vision more aligns with their opinion of fun. I look forward to playing the next version of Medieval and RH but I'll probably mod those too just as I have in the past because sometimes I really wonder what you guys were smoking when implementing some of the mechanics you put in

[Sergoros]

People should focus more on this one. Some respectful convincing and explaining why one active LCB doesn’t work might make the difference.

 

Honestly, I am shocked that this is how it is. Devs reject any discussions on the claim topic. They only give throw away explanations, aka "claims are difficult topic", or "we just didnt want people to claim cities".

 

And then ignore all the rest of the conversation. How can you have a discussion without back and forth? Should we just create 100 claim topics, and talk with devs in titles of said topics? There was Zero valid explanations why we can't have multiple claim blocks. The only one explanation I saw is 1 post of gazz talking about claiming cities and him not liking ppl building big.

 

Gazz then ignored the rest of the conversation giving away dozens of good solutions, that would save cities and wouldnt destroy builder community in the game.

 

How can we talk?

 

You can scream into darkness only so much, before you lose hope. And most of my friends Did lose hope.

[OnlyMeiya]

Honestly, I am shocked that this is how it is. Devs reject any discussions on the claim topic. They only give throw away explanations, aka "claims are difficult topic", or "we just didnt want people to claim cities".

 

And then ignore all the rest of the conversation. How can you have a discussion without back and forth? Should we just create 100 claim topics, and talk with devs in titles of said topics? There was Zero valid explanations why we can't have multiple claim blocks. The only one explanation I saw is 1 post of gazz talking about claiming cities and him not liking ppl building big.

 

Gazz then ignored the rest of the conversation giving away dozens of good solutions, that would save cities and wouldnt destroy builder community in the game.

 

How can we talk?

 

You can scream into darkness only so much, before you lose hope. And most of my friends Did lose hope.

 

Honestly they worked very well before, why break what wasn't broken.

[JoelleEmmily]

While I acknowledge many people hate it, the question I have is - how do you "fix" what they hate without "breaking" what others love?

 

I'll give an example:

 

I've seen some people post that they hate that it take 4 or 5 arrows to kill a zombie in the beginning of the game. Their reasons seem to revolve around the fact that it is unrealistic and grindy.

 

I on the other hand feel that if I can one shot a zombie from the start there is no point in progressing to better skills or weapons/mods. Thus I like the mechanic/progression.

 

I don't claim either opinion is right or wrong, just different. What I don't understand is how they mesh the two opinions into an enjoyable experience for both. And this is just one mechanic that a simple (and by simple I mean I can do it) XML modification will change.

 

I'll give an example where I don't align with TFP:

 

They chose a small backpack to start with encumbrance. I've seen many who love the difficult decisions you must make with limited space.

 

Me? While I acknowledge my 80 slot mod makes the game easier, I abhor not being able to collect my stuff lol. I see the "survival" challenge and even think encumbrance makes sense, the small backpack does not work for me.

 

Two very different playstyles for sure. How do you make the vanilla version appeal to both?

 

Multiply this by the 100's of varied opinions, playstyles and game mechanics and I can tell you I sure do not envy TFP at all.

 

Thank god for mods is all I can say, hopefully everyone can find a modder whose vision more aligns with their opinion of fun. I look forward to playing the next version of Medieval and RH but I'll probably mod those too just as I have in the past because sometimes I really wonder what you guys were smoking when implementing some of the mechanics you put in

 

I don't know why, but the encumbrance hasn't effect me all that much, though I tend to loot very little, and the stamina and what have you, not really a factor... I guess I'm used to games who penalize you heavily for that kind of stuff. And I find combat super easy... I always thought I was really bad at first person shooters... maybe I'm not so bad?

 

The Zombies magically knowing what blocks to go for is kinda annoying... and the fact that they avoid spikes and stuff... But I have an idea about that...

 

In the african forest, herders coral their sheep/goats into thorn bushes/fences in order to protect them from cheetahs... if the zeds avoid them... maybe they can by used as a repellent of sorts... or maybe they could be used to channel them away from areas... I donno...

 

What do you all think?

[Roland]

I'm betting myself a hundred bux that my next thought is, "you can't be reasoned with, I'm out."

 

I’m betting myself a hundred bux that my next thought is that I’ve found Kubikus’ sister....

 

If he couldn’t get a rise out of me with his debate style you have no prayer.

 

Since you’re out, why not play a bit of FF6 for old time’s sake and blow off some steam.